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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Vivax
22312 Posts
IT‘S PRAYER DAY. Do you have a copy of the holy flame, brother ? Chill bro I‘m just tryna build my base here. Even Turkey is more progressive than you. Laicism strong. Not that Russia is much different. Religious fundamentalism in political institutions goes hard. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23934 Posts
On October 04 2025 19:57 Uldridge wrote: Sure, but not everyone has that option. Many Americans are dirt poor. Who do you think they expect to fight the Civil War against fascism (or be its first targets while they escape) for them? Basically all the anti-Maidan folks here seem to be planning on leaving them to fend for themselves. I wonder how many Ukrainian casualties were "cut out for war" and how many just had to fight for their lives because they couldn't/wouldn't leave? | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11831 Posts
I only have one life to live, and while it would be better to give that life for something meaningful than senselessly, it would be even better to keep that life. Maybe slightly cowardly, but i can accept that. If forced, i will fight, but if i am not forced, i will flee instead. Of course, i have a comfortable position here in Germany because it is not my civil war over there. And maybe slightly judgemental: You guys could just have not elected the obvious criminal fascist. That would have solved this problem immediately before it even began. With regards to your Ukraine position: I am not in favor of forcing anyone to fight in Ukraine. I am, however, in favor of giving those who choose to fight there the best chance they can have, meaning giving them all sorts of supplies. I would prefer they didn't have to fight that war, but sadly Russian fascists decided that hundreds of millions of people dying would be awesome. That is the sad thing about war: It is not opt-in. Other people choose for you, and even your country. It doesn't matter if your country or you personally don't want a war, if Russia wants one, then there is a war. | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
Its a very early call but its seems like an easy call. The democrats gonna crush the midterms and 2028. I dont think this can be stopped. Its at the point where anything the administration tries will only make it worse for them. Its mostly a feeling but i think its pretty much done. 1 year till midterm and then 2 years of lame duck. Even in this one year they wont be able to change much. The minimum support amongst the population is not there as i see it. I wonder when they will realize this meme stuff is not helping them. Its way to crazy at this point. | ||
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Vivax
22312 Posts
You get sent in to risk your life because someone broke the law to seize power. That only goes well as long as the population is well and the leaders charismatic enough to get away with it, then they get hung upside down and beaten. Not before turning the population on each other, usually. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23934 Posts
On October 05 2025 00:55 Simberto wrote: Yeah, war sucks. An amazingly new insight. And most people would prefer to avoid war if they can. Also an amazingly new insight. I only have one life to live, and while it would be better to give that life for something meaningful than senselessly, it would be even better to keep that life. Maybe slightly cowardly, but i can accept that. If forced, i will fight, but if i am not forced, i will flee instead. Of course, i have a comfortable position here in Germany because it is not my civil war over there. And maybe slightly judgemental: You guys could just have not elected the obvious criminal fascist. That would have solved this problem immediately before it even began. With regards to your Ukraine position: I am not in favor of forcing anyone to fight in Ukraine. I am, however, in favor of giving those who choose to fight there the best chance they can have, meaning giving them all sorts of supplies. I would prefer they didn't have to fight that war, but sadly Russian fascists decided that hundreds of millions of people dying would be awesome. That is the sad thing about war: It is not opt-in. Other people choose for you, and even your country. It doesn't matter if your country or you personally don't want a war, if Russia wants one, then there is a war. Okay... The point was pretty much that the dirt poor people are the ones the anti-Maidan folks expect to fight/fend for themselves to your west (would you support Europe arming anti-fascists in the US like Ukrainians?). I could be wrong, but I doubt many (I'm sure some are) of Ukrainians on the front lines to your east are more affluent than you, and that's who you expect to protect you (not all flee West like you would) until you're forced to fight/join the fascists yourself. Which with AfD being the most popular faction nowadays, probably isn't as far off as you'd like to imagine. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26776 Posts
It’s part boiling frog, part Niemoller’s ‘first they came for…’ in action. If you’re say, to pick a random nationality, Ukrainian. And are invaded by a random country, let’s say Russia, there’s no ambiguity there. Troops are there, bombs are falling. If you’re in the States, that ain’t the case. Hey it’s bad, but how bad? Is it a blip, and normality will return in a few years? Can the march be prevented by regular mechanisms? Will it even affect me personally? One is quite a simple equation, the other is not. What makes revolutions in general so difficult. People rarely get presented a scenario which is ‘ok it’s full of peril, but if you jump in these metaphorical or literal trenches and do your bit, the cause will win.’ | ||
KwarK
United States43979 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26776 Posts
On October 05 2025 04:45 KwarK wrote: GH again with the bad faith. You'll note that he is, in fact, also not on the front line of the popular revolution storming the barricades. He exists only to criticize people on the left for not doing enough. He does nothing himself. The revolution will not be publicised. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20159 Posts
On October 04 2025 12:57 decafchicken wrote: In this specific instance, outside of target zones like Portland and Chicago or outside of ICE's zone of power (anywhere within 100 miles of the border). ICE has already shown every inclination to escalate force without cause or repercussion - they already murdered someone in Chicago for "assaulting an ice officer with his vehicle", he was just trying to drive away from masked unidentifiable people attacking him and the ICE officer that was "assaulted" was recently caught on a hot mic saying he was completely fine. Trump now sending in his 300 national guard soldiers expressly against our Governors wishes | ||
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Phyanketto
United States601 Posts
On October 05 2025 06:02 decafchicken wrote: Trump now sending in his 300 national guard soldiers expressly against our Governors wishes Yeha it's bad and yeah it's pushing the needle, but it's political theater and also trying to bait people into shooting one of them | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23934 Posts
On October 05 2025 04:45 KwarK wrote: GH again with the bad faith. You'll note that he is, in fact, also not on the front line of the popular revolution storming the barricades. He exists only to criticize people on the left for not doing enough. He does nothing himself. This is you doing your typical bad faith straw manning. Ryzel explained it pretty plainly On September 30 2025 21:12 Ryzel wrote: I mean, the issues are the same as they have been for years. + Show Spoiler + 1) The Republican base isn’t THAT ideologically different from one another. You’ve got the far-right, obviously, and the “leftmost right” (the Introverts and what have you) don’t really have too much of a problem with what the far-right wants to do, as long as the status quo is maintained. Hell, anecdotally I even know some previously-Republican-now-Democrat-hate-Trumpers who like to post memes and complain about him, but when asked by myself/other friends if they’re concerned about the stuff being done by the administration, they roll their eyes while shaking their head and say “nah that’s just more Trump bullshit to control the news cycle, America’s dealt with wacky power grabbing Presidents before, Jackson etc., just gotta’ ride this out until he’s gone in 2028.” The majority of the public simply isn’t that bothered by Trump. Meanwhile, for the Democrat base, the “rightmost left” (people like the guy above, couple posters here, etc), that just want the status quo maintained while having a bit of a conscience, have serious ideological beef with people on the far-left. If a far-left candidate won a primary, you’d likely see serious defectors (although perhaps Mamdani in NY can serve as a valuable test case for how much this would happen). The voting base is all over the place, which leads to… 2) Democrats don’t have a brand. They used to be pro-middle class / pro-worker, then when politicians couldn’t be that anymore they turned pro-big money / pro-globalist / pro-status quo with some pro-minority stuff sprinkled in, but ever since Trump became a thing they’ve become Make America Great Again (Pre-Trump). MAGA with a D in front isn’t magically going to beat the original MAGA; everyone who’d be swayed with that branding is already MAGA, and no one’s going to believe them when all the establishment Dems are in corporate pockets. Personally, if I’m asked what I’m voting for when I vote Democrat, all I can think to say is “not Trump, friendly with the West, corps get bigger, and social justice for minorities.” Which, yeah, I like 3 of the 4, but only 2 of them are meaningful country policies, and it still isn’t addressing the death of the American worker / middle class. Trump is the only one paying lip service to it, which is why he’s able to swindle all of them; hard to ignore the shady snake oil salesman when he’s the only one even trying to sell medicine. So to tie it back to GH, I don’t have a problem at all with his rhetoric. He’s obviously not pro-Republican; I’ve never seen a post any support or praise of Trump and what he’s doing. At that point you’re at best (if you have hope for it to stop sucking) ideologically similar to Nazi Germany citizens who “had to go along with all the bad stuff until hopefully things get better” (but instead internalized all the bad shit they had to do until it didn’t seem so bad anymore), OR at worst (if you’ve lost hope for it to stop sucking) ideologically similar to 647 / No Lives Matter nihilists who say “fuck this fucking sucky world that sucks and everyone in it, even me” (until their rage pushes them to shoot up a public place). One additional thing I'm pointing out is that oppressed people are being described sorta like canaries in the fascism mine for those people who plan on leaving when the oppressed people around them die/get abused at an uncomfortable enough rate. I'm not leaving those less fortunate than myself to face the fascists alone and I'm certainly not going to join the fascists. That's just not something the rest of you will commit to. | ||
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decafchicken
United States20159 Posts
On October 05 2025 06:05 Phyanketto wrote: Yeha it's bad and yeah it's pushing the needle, but it's political theater and also trying to bait people into shooting one of them Yeah that's why it's bad lol | ||
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Phyanketto
United States601 Posts
I realize, but it's not going to do anything, really. They don't do anything. | ||
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KwarK
United States43979 Posts
On October 05 2025 07:04 GreenHorizons wrote: + Show Spoiler + I'm not leaving those less fortunate than myself to face the fascists alone and I'm certainly not going to join the fascists. + Show Spoiler + That's just not something the rest of you will commit to.+ Show Spoiler + Yes you are. Not only will you be fleeing the country, you'll also be putting on a brown shirt when the time comes. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45861 Posts
On October 05 2025 01:13 pmh wrote: Things will be ok for the democrats i think. They can get it done. Not because they are so great but because support for this administration is collapsing completely atm. They dont realy dare to push further anymore either i think , there is not enough public support for where they want to go not even close. Its a very early call but its seems like an easy call. The democrats gonna crush the midterms and 2028. I dont think this can be stopped. Its at the point where anything the administration tries will only make it worse for them. Its mostly a feeling but i think its pretty much done. 1 year till midterm and then 2 years of lame duck. Even in this one year they wont be able to change much. The minimum support amongst the population is not there as i see it. I wonder when they will realize this meme stuff is not helping them. Its way to crazy at this point. Republicans aren't above trying to rig elections, but I hope you're right. | ||
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KwarK
United States43979 Posts
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Ze'ev
159 Posts
On October 05 2025 07:04 GreenHorizons wrote: We all think you are quite the hero. What a manly man you are! This is you doing your typical bad faith straw manning. Ryzel explained it pretty plainly One additional thing I'm pointing out is that oppressed people are being described sorta like canaries in the fascism mine for those people who plan on leaving when the oppressed people around them die/get abused at an uncomfortable enough rate. I'm not leaving those less fortunate than myself to face the fascists alone and I'm certainly not going to join the fascists. That's just not something the rest of you will commit to. A real life Ace Rimmer! What a guy! | ||
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EnDeR_
Spain2879 Posts
On October 05 2025 07:04 GreenHorizons wrote: Okay... The point was pretty much that the dirt poor people are the ones the anti-Maidan folks expect to fight/fend for themselves to your west (would you support Europe arming anti-fascists in the US like Ukrainians?). I could be wrong, but I doubt many (I'm sure some are) of Ukrainians on the front lines to your east are more affluent than you, and that's who you expect to protect you (not all flee West like you would) until you're forced to fight/join the fascists yourself. Which with AfD being the most popular faction nowadays, probably isn't as far off as you'd like to imagine. One additional thing I'm pointing out is that oppressed people are being described sorta like canaries in the fascism mine for those people who plan on leaving when the oppressed people around them die/get abused at an uncomfortable enough rate. I'm not leaving those less fortunate than myself to face the fascists alone and I'm certainly not going to join the fascists. That's just not something the rest of you will commit to. Ok, you've quoted that post a couple times now, so let's address it. I take it you liked the opening statement "He’s just trying to light a fire under y’all collective asses to engage meaningfully with your individual political beliefs, see how they track with what’s currently being represented by the Democratic Party, and normalize change." engaging meaningfully is a vague term, similar to what you get when you ask ChatGPT to write for you. You can project that to cover pretty much any discussion about politics. What does this mean to you? en.wikipedia.org Harris's domestic platform was similar to Biden's on most issues.[15] She supported national abortion protections, LGBT+ rights, stricter gun control, and legislation to address climate change.[16] She also supported federal cannabis legalization, strengthening voting rights, strengthening the Affordable Care Act, and federal funding of housing. Harris departed from Biden on some economic issues, initially proposing what some described as a "populist" economic agenda. Harris advocated for limited anti-price-gouging laws for grocery and food prices, a cap on prescription drug costs, and expansion of the child tax credit.[17][18] On immigration, Harris supported increasing the number of Border Patrol agents and reforming the immigration system. On foreign policy, she supported continued military aid to Ukraine and Israel in their respective wars, but insisted that Israel should agree to a ceasefire and hostage deal and work towards a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.[19] So, Harris hit most of the issues we agree are important, from taxing richer folks more to extending healthcare and adding protections for LGBT+ people. She had concrete plans to do these things. Are you going to argue that these don't track with what progressives want? Before you start with the genocide enablers thing again, I know that you disagree with her foreign policy, no need to go there. Maybe something for you think about: were we closer to implementing a socialist system before or after Harris lost the election? | ||
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