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Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 395

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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43633 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-04-14 14:45:23
April 14 2025 14:22 GMT
#7881
On April 14 2025 19:55 stilt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:01 Billyboy wrote:
Part of Kwark's point is we don't need constant whataboutism, to counter it with whataboutism is not really a counter.

Hamas is clearly evil, it is highly unlikely they even give a shit about Palestinian "freedom". None of that changes regardless of your opinion on Israel as a country, their people, or their leadership.


I guess I wasn't really responding to his point, I was responding to his use of this specific type of agitprop cos its a thing that grinds my gears.
It's a modern version of scalping stories during the US's genocide of indigenous tribes. That's probably part of why it grinded your gears.

It also feeds into the myth that there could be a "right way" for Hamas to fight against the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians and be deemed "the good guys" (good vs bad guys is childish analysis anyway).

You don’t need to be able to explicitly define an exact right way to know that raping people is a wrong way. Only a sociopath can’t see that some things are definitely the wrong way. Are you a sociopath GH? Or are you able to recognize that the sexual violence committed by Hamas is wrong?


Kwark the negationnist trying to take the morale highground is pretty ironic. Considering your constant justification of the ongoing genocide and of past israeli actions, you should keep quiet.
And GH is totally right, the scalping practice was instrumentalyzed in order to justify the genocide of the indians. Do I think scalping corpses is bad ? Or rape is bad ? Yeah but what Israel is doing (or what america did) is a whole other dimension.
Just like the shoah per bullet was presented by the nazi as anti partisan action.
No doubt at this point you would have been one of them and portrayed the soviet resistance as terrorists while million of jews get shot at.

Actually no, you would have been one of the members of the Einsatzgruppen and I would have been a super ripped guy with great hair and a sexy Canadian girlfriend making me the winner in this debate. Also you would have been ugly and dumb.

You're clearly very new at the art of debate.

"I imagine you as a Nazi which makes you in the wrong" is a strong first attempt but you forgot to imagine any positive attributes for yourself which left you open to my devastating response. There's no coming back from that, I won.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9776 Posts
April 14 2025 15:51 GMT
#7882
On April 14 2025 23:22 Billyboy wrote:
Hell what Israel is doing is what some people are calling for to happen to 'Fascists". The scary sad part is how not unique it is. That they have this power imbalance and didn't do something this awful or way worse sooner is maybe unique.

I don't think anyone's calling for deaths of thousands of random people which they can then lie about and pretend they were fascists tbh.
RIP Meatloaf <3
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1494 Posts
April 14 2025 16:05 GMT
#7883
On April 15 2025 00:51 Jockmcplop wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2025 23:22 Billyboy wrote:
Hell what Israel is doing is what some people are calling for to happen to 'Fascists". The scary sad part is how not unique it is. That they have this power imbalance and didn't do something this awful or way worse sooner is maybe unique.

I don't think anyone's calling for deaths of thousands of random people which they can then lie about and pretend they were fascists tbh.

Sadly you are mistaken, people everywhere are this awful. Just look at all of those who fell for the Russian "dezaifactation" BS. First they would say they were fascists, then if that was proven wrong, they would become fascist collaborators, and lastly, sad but necessary collateral damage to rid the world of the evil fascists.

This is what trying to exterminate a insurgency with force looks like.
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2754 Posts
April 15 2025 18:58 GMT
#7884
On April 14 2025 23:22 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2025 19:55 stilt wrote:
On April 14 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:01 Billyboy wrote:
Part of Kwark's point is we don't need constant whataboutism, to counter it with whataboutism is not really a counter.

Hamas is clearly evil, it is highly unlikely they even give a shit about Palestinian "freedom". None of that changes regardless of your opinion on Israel as a country, their people, or their leadership.


I guess I wasn't really responding to his point, I was responding to his use of this specific type of agitprop cos its a thing that grinds my gears.
It's a modern version of scalping stories during the US's genocide of indigenous tribes. That's probably part of why it grinded your gears.

It also feeds into the myth that there could be a "right way" for Hamas to fight against the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians and be deemed "the good guys" (good vs bad guys is childish analysis anyway).

You don’t need to be able to explicitly define an exact right way to know that raping people is a wrong way. Only a sociopath can’t see that some things are definitely the wrong way. Are you a sociopath GH? Or are you able to recognize that the sexual violence committed by Hamas is wrong?


Kwark the negationnist trying to take the morale highground is pretty ironic. Considering your constant justification of the ongoing genocide and of past israeli actions, you should keep quiet.
And GH is totally right, the scalping practice was instrumentalyzed in order to justify the genocide of the indians. Do I think scalping corpses is bad ? Or rape is bad ? Yeah but what Israel is doing (or what america did) is a whole other dimension.
Just like the shoah per bullet was presented by the nazi as anti partisan action.
No doubt at this point you would have been one of them and portrayed the soviet resistance as terrorists while million of jews get shot at.

Actually no, you would have been one of the members of the Einsatzgruppen and I would have been a super ripped guy with great hair and a sexy Canadian girlfriend making me the winner in this debate. Also you would have been ugly and dumb.

You're clearly very new at the art of debate.

"I imagine you as a Nazi which makes you in the wrong" is a strong first attempt but you forgot to imagine any positive attributes for yourself which left you open to my devastating response. There's no coming back from that, I won.


Listen kwark the negationnist, you can't name a single scholar about this conflict, you don't know its history or colonial history.

And not only you're extremely ignorant and proud of it, but you can't even comprehend your poor logic of justification of a genocide. Tbf, considering your previous posts, you're just able to reason with "good guys, bad guys" right ? And you think I am debating with that ?

So clueless, I am just admonishing you.
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2754 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-04-15 19:08:43
April 15 2025 19:05 GMT
#7885
On April 14 2025 23:22 Billyboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2025 19:55 stilt wrote:
On April 14 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:01 Billyboy wrote:
Part of Kwark's point is we don't need constant whataboutism, to counter it with whataboutism is not really a counter.

Hamas is clearly evil, it is highly unlikely they even give a shit about Palestinian "freedom". None of that changes regardless of your opinion on Israel as a country, their people, or their leadership.


I guess I wasn't really responding to his point, I was responding to his use of this specific type of agitprop cos its a thing that grinds my gears.
It's a modern version of scalping stories during the US's genocide of indigenous tribes. That's probably part of why it grinded your gears.

It also feeds into the myth that there could be a "right way" for Hamas to fight against the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians and be deemed "the good guys" (good vs bad guys is childish analysis anyway).

You don’t need to be able to explicitly define an exact right way to know that raping people is a wrong way. Only a sociopath can’t see that some things are definitely the wrong way. Are you a sociopath GH? Or are you able to recognize that the sexual violence committed by Hamas is wrong?


Kwark the negationnist trying to take the morale highground is pretty ironic. Considering your constant justification of the ongoing genocide and of past israeli actions, you should keep quiet.
And GH is totally right, the scalping practice was instrumentalyzed in order to justify the genocide of the indians. Do I think scalping corpses is bad ? Or rape is bad ? Yeah but what Israel is doing (or what america did) is a whole other dimension.
Just like the shoah per bullet was presented by the nazi as anti partisan action.
No doubt at this point you would have been one of them and portrayed the soviet resistance as terrorists while million of jews get shot at.

You didn't need justification back in that time period. Geocoding, slave trade and so on were just common practice. Bow down to power or die. What Israel has done is awful, but it is in no way unique. Look just next door in Syria and in all sorts of pockets in the middle east. Same with many spots in Africa. Same with Ukraine. What is unique is how politicized it is, and how much attention it gets.

Hell what Israel is doing is what some people are calling for to happen to 'Fascists". The scary sad part is how not unique it is. That they have this power imbalance and didn't do something this awful or way worse sooner is maybe unique.


Slavery was heavely justified, every system has his own justification. From the Valladolid debate to today, every exploitive system finds justification, the colonization was about superior race and civilization. Today hasn't change much if you're listenning vance or netanyahu.

And not that's unique indeed, the us did the same to the natives.
The french try the same in Algeria but couldn't succeed thanks to logistical reason.
And it's not about crushing fascim but people. It's not me who are saying that, but the israeli one, the people and their governents.

Among the myriad of quotes, the one by smotrich, the minister of finance, right at the announce of the truce is the most telling : "Gaza is destroyed and disintegrated, uninhabitable, and it will remain that way. Do not be impressed by the forced joy of our enemies, this is an animal society that sanctifies death and dances on the ruins of its life. Very soon, we will erase their smile again and replace it with cries of grief and the wails of those who were left with nothing."

It's not against hamas but against the whole population.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43633 Posts
April 15 2025 19:06 GMT
#7886
On April 16 2025 03:58 stilt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2025 23:22 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 19:55 stilt wrote:
On April 14 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:01 Billyboy wrote:
Part of Kwark's point is we don't need constant whataboutism, to counter it with whataboutism is not really a counter.

Hamas is clearly evil, it is highly unlikely they even give a shit about Palestinian "freedom". None of that changes regardless of your opinion on Israel as a country, their people, or their leadership.


I guess I wasn't really responding to his point, I was responding to his use of this specific type of agitprop cos its a thing that grinds my gears.
It's a modern version of scalping stories during the US's genocide of indigenous tribes. That's probably part of why it grinded your gears.

It also feeds into the myth that there could be a "right way" for Hamas to fight against the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians and be deemed "the good guys" (good vs bad guys is childish analysis anyway).

You don’t need to be able to explicitly define an exact right way to know that raping people is a wrong way. Only a sociopath can’t see that some things are definitely the wrong way. Are you a sociopath GH? Or are you able to recognize that the sexual violence committed by Hamas is wrong?


Kwark the negationnist trying to take the morale highground is pretty ironic. Considering your constant justification of the ongoing genocide and of past israeli actions, you should keep quiet.
And GH is totally right, the scalping practice was instrumentalyzed in order to justify the genocide of the indians. Do I think scalping corpses is bad ? Or rape is bad ? Yeah but what Israel is doing (or what america did) is a whole other dimension.
Just like the shoah per bullet was presented by the nazi as anti partisan action.
No doubt at this point you would have been one of them and portrayed the soviet resistance as terrorists while million of jews get shot at.

Actually no, you would have been one of the members of the Einsatzgruppen and I would have been a super ripped guy with great hair and a sexy Canadian girlfriend making me the winner in this debate. Also you would have been ugly and dumb.

You're clearly very new at the art of debate.

"I imagine you as a Nazi which makes you in the wrong" is a strong first attempt but you forgot to imagine any positive attributes for yourself which left you open to my devastating response. There's no coming back from that, I won.


Listen kwark the negationnist, you can't name a single scholar about this conflict, you don't know its history or colonial history.

And not only you're extremely ignorant and proud of it, but you can't even comprehend your poor logic of justification of a genocide. Tbf, considering your previous posts, you're just able to reason with "good guys, bad guys" right ? And you think I am debating with that ?

So clueless, I am just admonishing you.

Not only are you debating with it, you're losing the debate, and badly.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23671 Posts
April 15 2025 19:07 GMT
#7887
On April 16 2025 04:06 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 03:58 stilt wrote:
On April 14 2025 23:22 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 19:55 stilt wrote:
On April 14 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:01 Billyboy wrote:
Part of Kwark's point is we don't need constant whataboutism, to counter it with whataboutism is not really a counter.

Hamas is clearly evil, it is highly unlikely they even give a shit about Palestinian "freedom". None of that changes regardless of your opinion on Israel as a country, their people, or their leadership.


I guess I wasn't really responding to his point, I was responding to his use of this specific type of agitprop cos its a thing that grinds my gears.
It's a modern version of scalping stories during the US's genocide of indigenous tribes. That's probably part of why it grinded your gears.

It also feeds into the myth that there could be a "right way" for Hamas to fight against the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians and be deemed "the good guys" (good vs bad guys is childish analysis anyway).

You don’t need to be able to explicitly define an exact right way to know that raping people is a wrong way. Only a sociopath can’t see that some things are definitely the wrong way. Are you a sociopath GH? Or are you able to recognize that the sexual violence committed by Hamas is wrong?


Kwark the negationnist trying to take the morale highground is pretty ironic. Considering your constant justification of the ongoing genocide and of past israeli actions, you should keep quiet.
And GH is totally right, the scalping practice was instrumentalyzed in order to justify the genocide of the indians. Do I think scalping corpses is bad ? Or rape is bad ? Yeah but what Israel is doing (or what america did) is a whole other dimension.
Just like the shoah per bullet was presented by the nazi as anti partisan action.
No doubt at this point you would have been one of them and portrayed the soviet resistance as terrorists while million of jews get shot at.

Actually no, you would have been one of the members of the Einsatzgruppen and I would have been a super ripped guy with great hair and a sexy Canadian girlfriend making me the winner in this debate. Also you would have been ugly and dumb.

You're clearly very new at the art of debate.

"I imagine you as a Nazi which makes you in the wrong" is a strong first attempt but you forgot to imagine any positive attributes for yourself which left you open to my devastating response. There's no coming back from that, I won.


Listen kwark the negationnist, you can't name a single scholar about this conflict, you don't know its history or colonial history.

And not only you're extremely ignorant and proud of it, but you can't even comprehend your poor logic of justification of a genocide. Tbf, considering your previous posts, you're just able to reason with "good guys, bad guys" right ? And you think I am debating with that ?

So clueless, I am just admonishing you.

Not only are you debating with it, you're losing the debate, and badly.

Looks more like you crashing out hard lately to me, but you do you.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43633 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-04-15 19:14:45
April 15 2025 19:13 GMT
#7888
On April 16 2025 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Looks like KwarK wins again

Nice to see you here GH. Thanks for your support. You still making up quotes and ascribing them to other people as your main form of debate? I've learned a trick or two from you.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2754 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-04-15 19:15:49
April 15 2025 19:15 GMT
#7889
On April 16 2025 04:06 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 03:58 stilt wrote:
On April 14 2025 23:22 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 19:55 stilt wrote:
On April 14 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:01 Billyboy wrote:
Part of Kwark's point is we don't need constant whataboutism, to counter it with whataboutism is not really a counter.

Hamas is clearly evil, it is highly unlikely they even give a shit about Palestinian "freedom". None of that changes regardless of your opinion on Israel as a country, their people, or their leadership.


I guess I wasn't really responding to his point, I was responding to his use of this specific type of agitprop cos its a thing that grinds my gears.
It's a modern version of scalping stories during the US's genocide of indigenous tribes. That's probably part of why it grinded your gears.

It also feeds into the myth that there could be a "right way" for Hamas to fight against the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians and be deemed "the good guys" (good vs bad guys is childish analysis anyway).

You don’t need to be able to explicitly define an exact right way to know that raping people is a wrong way. Only a sociopath can’t see that some things are definitely the wrong way. Are you a sociopath GH? Or are you able to recognize that the sexual violence committed by Hamas is wrong?


Kwark the negationnist trying to take the morale highground is pretty ironic. Considering your constant justification of the ongoing genocide and of past israeli actions, you should keep quiet.
And GH is totally right, the scalping practice was instrumentalyzed in order to justify the genocide of the indians. Do I think scalping corpses is bad ? Or rape is bad ? Yeah but what Israel is doing (or what america did) is a whole other dimension.
Just like the shoah per bullet was presented by the nazi as anti partisan action.
No doubt at this point you would have been one of them and portrayed the soviet resistance as terrorists while million of jews get shot at.

Actually no, you would have been one of the members of the Einsatzgruppen and I would have been a super ripped guy with great hair and a sexy Canadian girlfriend making me the winner in this debate. Also you would have been ugly and dumb.

You're clearly very new at the art of debate.

"I imagine you as a Nazi which makes you in the wrong" is a strong first attempt but you forgot to imagine any positive attributes for yourself which left you open to my devastating response. There's no coming back from that, I won.


Listen kwark the negationnist, you can't name a single scholar about this conflict, you don't know its history or colonial history.

And not only you're extremely ignorant and proud of it, but you can't even comprehend your poor logic of justification of a genocide. Tbf, considering your previous posts, you're just able to reason with "good guys, bad guys" right ? And you think I am debating with that ?

So clueless, I am just admonishing you.

Not only are you debating with it, you're losing the debate, and badly.


Dude, this is not a debate. And it can't be because you don't bring any substantial things to debate with.
I can debate with billyboy because even if I disagree with him cuz he brings some facts and can follow a reasonning but you can't.

What we're doing is just arguing.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43633 Posts
April 15 2025 19:16 GMT
#7890
On April 16 2025 04:15 stilt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 04:06 KwarK wrote:
On April 16 2025 03:58 stilt wrote:
On April 14 2025 23:22 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 19:55 stilt wrote:
On April 14 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:01 Billyboy wrote:
Part of Kwark's point is we don't need constant whataboutism, to counter it with whataboutism is not really a counter.

Hamas is clearly evil, it is highly unlikely they even give a shit about Palestinian "freedom". None of that changes regardless of your opinion on Israel as a country, their people, or their leadership.


I guess I wasn't really responding to his point, I was responding to his use of this specific type of agitprop cos its a thing that grinds my gears.
It's a modern version of scalping stories during the US's genocide of indigenous tribes. That's probably part of why it grinded your gears.

It also feeds into the myth that there could be a "right way" for Hamas to fight against the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians and be deemed "the good guys" (good vs bad guys is childish analysis anyway).

You don’t need to be able to explicitly define an exact right way to know that raping people is a wrong way. Only a sociopath can’t see that some things are definitely the wrong way. Are you a sociopath GH? Or are you able to recognize that the sexual violence committed by Hamas is wrong?


Kwark the negationnist trying to take the morale highground is pretty ironic. Considering your constant justification of the ongoing genocide and of past israeli actions, you should keep quiet.
And GH is totally right, the scalping practice was instrumentalyzed in order to justify the genocide of the indians. Do I think scalping corpses is bad ? Or rape is bad ? Yeah but what Israel is doing (or what america did) is a whole other dimension.
Just like the shoah per bullet was presented by the nazi as anti partisan action.
No doubt at this point you would have been one of them and portrayed the soviet resistance as terrorists while million of jews get shot at.

Actually no, you would have been one of the members of the Einsatzgruppen and I would have been a super ripped guy with great hair and a sexy Canadian girlfriend making me the winner in this debate. Also you would have been ugly and dumb.

You're clearly very new at the art of debate.

"I imagine you as a Nazi which makes you in the wrong" is a strong first attempt but you forgot to imagine any positive attributes for yourself which left you open to my devastating response. There's no coming back from that, I won.


Listen kwark the negationnist, you can't name a single scholar about this conflict, you don't know its history or colonial history.

And not only you're extremely ignorant and proud of it, but you can't even comprehend your poor logic of justification of a genocide. Tbf, considering your previous posts, you're just able to reason with "good guys, bad guys" right ? And you think I am debating with that ?

So clueless, I am just admonishing you.

Not only are you debating with it, you're losing the debate, and badly.


Dude, this is not a debate. And it can't be because you don't bring any substantial things to debate with.
I can debate with billyboy because even if I disagree with him cuz he brings some facts and can follow a reasonning but you can't.

What we're doing is just arguing.

No, we're debating.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23671 Posts
April 15 2025 19:20 GMT
#7891
On April 16 2025 04:13 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Looks like KwarK wins again

Nice to see you here GH. Thanks for your support. You still making up quotes and ascribing them to other people as your main form of debate? I've learned a trick or two from you.

You realize I didn't make up the quote that I included the full text and linked the original of, or have you completely lost touch with reality?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43633 Posts
April 15 2025 19:23 GMT
#7892
On April 16 2025 04:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
I've come to see that I was wrong about everything and that my activism is a fucking joke. While the problems in America are serious the idea that anything I was doing was making any kind of difference is, in retrospect, equal parts funny and depressing.

Wow, that sounds tough buddy. What are you going to do with your life now?
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1494 Posts
April 15 2025 19:42 GMT
#7893
On April 16 2025 04:05 stilt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 14 2025 23:22 Billyboy wrote:
On April 14 2025 19:55 stilt wrote:
On April 14 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:04 Jockmcplop wrote:
On April 14 2025 00:01 Billyboy wrote:
Part of Kwark's point is we don't need constant whataboutism, to counter it with whataboutism is not really a counter.

Hamas is clearly evil, it is highly unlikely they even give a shit about Palestinian "freedom". None of that changes regardless of your opinion on Israel as a country, their people, or their leadership.


I guess I wasn't really responding to his point, I was responding to his use of this specific type of agitprop cos its a thing that grinds my gears.
It's a modern version of scalping stories during the US's genocide of indigenous tribes. That's probably part of why it grinded your gears.

It also feeds into the myth that there could be a "right way" for Hamas to fight against the ethnic cleansing/genocide of Palestinians and be deemed "the good guys" (good vs bad guys is childish analysis anyway).

You don’t need to be able to explicitly define an exact right way to know that raping people is a wrong way. Only a sociopath can’t see that some things are definitely the wrong way. Are you a sociopath GH? Or are you able to recognize that the sexual violence committed by Hamas is wrong?


Kwark the negationnist trying to take the morale highground is pretty ironic. Considering your constant justification of the ongoing genocide and of past israeli actions, you should keep quiet.
And GH is totally right, the scalping practice was instrumentalyzed in order to justify the genocide of the indians. Do I think scalping corpses is bad ? Or rape is bad ? Yeah but what Israel is doing (or what america did) is a whole other dimension.
Just like the shoah per bullet was presented by the nazi as anti partisan action.
No doubt at this point you would have been one of them and portrayed the soviet resistance as terrorists while million of jews get shot at.

You didn't need justification back in that time period. Geocoding, slave trade and so on were just common practice. Bow down to power or die. What Israel has done is awful, but it is in no way unique. Look just next door in Syria and in all sorts of pockets in the middle east. Same with many spots in Africa. Same with Ukraine. What is unique is how politicized it is, and how much attention it gets.

Hell what Israel is doing is what some people are calling for to happen to 'Fascists". The scary sad part is how not unique it is. That they have this power imbalance and didn't do something this awful or way worse sooner is maybe unique.


Slavery was heavely justified, every system has his own justification. From the Valladolid debate to today, every exploitive system finds justification, the colonization was about superior race and civilization. Today hasn't change much if you're listenning vance or netanyahu.

And not that's unique indeed, the us did the same to the natives.
The french try the same in Algeria but couldn't succeed thanks to logistical reason.
And it's not about crushing fascim but people. It's not me who are saying that, but the israeli one, the people and their governents.

Among the myriad of quotes, the one by smotrich, the minister of finance, right at the announce of the truce is the most telling : "Gaza is destroyed and disintegrated, uninhabitable, and it will remain that way. Do not be impressed by the forced joy of our enemies, this is an animal society that sanctifies death and dances on the ruins of its life. Very soon, we will erase their smile again and replace it with cries of grief and the wails of those who were left with nothing."

It's not against hamas but against the whole population.

None of this, or anything you have written is on how Hamas is good. They are almost as awful to their own people as thy are to the Israeli, and have absolutely no respect for their lives.

All you can do is "Israel bad" and without any nuance, it is just pure hate.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12405 Posts
April 15 2025 20:03 GMT
#7894
On April 16 2025 04:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 04:13 KwarK wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Looks like KwarK wins again

Nice to see you here GH. Thanks for your support. You still making up quotes and ascribing them to other people as your main form of debate? I've learned a trick or two from you.

You realize I didn't make up the quote that I included the full text and linked the original of, or have you completely lost touch with reality?


He does realize it, yeah. All I know from KwarK tells me that it kills him that he doesn't have a good argument and he has to stoop down to doing shit like this. I take some solace in that.
No will to live, no wish to die
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
April 15 2025 21:06 GMT
#7895
On April 16 2025 04:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 04:13 KwarK wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Looks like KwarK wins again

Nice to see you here GH. Thanks for your support. You still making up quotes and ascribing them to other people as your main form of debate? I've learned a trick or two from you.

You realize I didn't make up the quote that I included the full text and linked the original of, or have you completely lost touch with reality?


Except the quoted text is not what you ascribed him saying. He said "America is getting better." You said he said "Trump winning the election is a sign America is getting better." It's not even close to the same thing. He even explained your error in his next post.

This pisses me off because it's an incredibly simple point to understand. It's a "two steps forward one step back" kind of thing. An 8 year old could understand this point. It doesn't mean every step is in the right direction but in the long run you're moving in the right direction. The only reason to misunderstand this is through ignorance or malice, so take your pick.

This happens way to often on this forum (usually to me tbh). No matter how obvious the misinterpretation is more people will jump in and agree with the uncharitable interpretation just to win internet arguments, I guess. But the one person that I never see doing this is Kwark. Maybe he just grasps the English language better than most people here. We often disagree but the one thing I can be sure if I'm arguing with him is that the disagreement will be an ideological one and not because he has done a shit job at understanding my point.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12405 Posts
April 15 2025 21:30 GMT
#7896
On April 16 2025 06:06 BlackJack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 04:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:13 KwarK wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Looks like KwarK wins again

Nice to see you here GH. Thanks for your support. You still making up quotes and ascribing them to other people as your main form of debate? I've learned a trick or two from you.

You realize I didn't make up the quote that I included the full text and linked the original of, or have you completely lost touch with reality?


Except the quoted text is not what you ascribed him saying. He said "America is getting better." You said he said "Trump winning the election is a sign America is getting better." It's not even close to the same thing. He even explained your error in his next post.

This pisses me off because it's an incredibly simple point to understand. It's a "two steps forward one step back" kind of thing. An 8 year old could understand this point. It doesn't mean every step is in the right direction but in the long run you're moving in the right direction. The only reason to misunderstand this is through ignorance or malice, so take your pick.

This happens way to often on this forum (usually to me tbh). No matter how obvious the misinterpretation is more people will jump in and agree with the uncharitable interpretation just to win internet arguments, I guess. But the one person that I never see doing this is Kwark. Maybe he just grasps the English language better than most people here. We often disagree but the one thing I can be sure if I'm arguing with him is that the disagreement will be an ideological one and not because he has done a shit job at understanding my point.


I suspect the reason why this happens to you a lot is because people expect other people in general to post with some sort of objective in mind. Like, we're in this context in which Trump is fucking everything up, and the large majority of your posting is still about how Democrats are slightly unfair in their Trump criticism when it comes to this point of detail or that point of detail, or how there's this DEI scandal about some woke thing somewhere; the natural inclination for a lot of people is that you must be doing it for a reason, and then they search for that reason. Is it because you support this, or that; they're trying to figure it out. Drone made a good point yesterday that you were probably not doing it with an objective, that you were just nitpicking for the sake of it, and that made sense to me. I would then add that you've spent so long on team "Democrats are bad" and it feels comfortable to continue being on that team no matter what happens now. But I could be wrong too! There's no way to tell, really. Or as someone who grasps the English language better than most people once said,

On March 26 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
Blackjack isn’t arguing that it wasn’t a Nazi salute, he’s clear that it was. He’s arguing for the sake of arguing. His point is that it’s possible for someone, but not him, to be really bad at identifying salutes or something and for that person, who isn’t him, to be confused. You’ve got to remember that blackjack’s posts are essentially meaningless.
No will to live, no wish to die
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
April 15 2025 22:57 GMT
#7897
On April 16 2025 06:30 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 06:06 BlackJack wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:13 KwarK wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Looks like KwarK wins again

Nice to see you here GH. Thanks for your support. You still making up quotes and ascribing them to other people as your main form of debate? I've learned a trick or two from you.

You realize I didn't make up the quote that I included the full text and linked the original of, or have you completely lost touch with reality?


Except the quoted text is not what you ascribed him saying. He said "America is getting better." You said he said "Trump winning the election is a sign America is getting better." It's not even close to the same thing. He even explained your error in his next post.

This pisses me off because it's an incredibly simple point to understand. It's a "two steps forward one step back" kind of thing. An 8 year old could understand this point. It doesn't mean every step is in the right direction but in the long run you're moving in the right direction. The only reason to misunderstand this is through ignorance or malice, so take your pick.

This happens way to often on this forum (usually to me tbh). No matter how obvious the misinterpretation is more people will jump in and agree with the uncharitable interpretation just to win internet arguments, I guess. But the one person that I never see doing this is Kwark. Maybe he just grasps the English language better than most people here. We often disagree but the one thing I can be sure if I'm arguing with him is that the disagreement will be an ideological one and not because he has done a shit job at understanding my point.


I suspect the reason why this happens to you a lot is because people expect other people in general to post with some sort of objective in mind. Like, we're in this context in which Trump is fucking everything up, and the large majority of your posting is still about how Democrats are slightly unfair in their Trump criticism when it comes to this point of detail or that point of detail, or how there's this DEI scandal about some woke thing somewhere; the natural inclination for a lot of people is that you must be doing it for a reason, and then they search for that reason. Is it because you support this, or that; they're trying to figure it out. Drone made a good point yesterday that you were probably not doing it with an objective, that you were just nitpicking for the sake of it, and that made sense to me. I would then add that you've spent so long on team "Democrats are bad" and it feels comfortable to continue being on that team no matter what happens now. But I could be wrong too! There's no way to tell, really. Or as someone who grasps the English language better than most people once said,

Show nested quote +
On March 26 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
Blackjack isn’t arguing that it wasn’t a Nazi salute, he’s clear that it was. He’s arguing for the sake of arguing. His point is that it’s possible for someone, but not him, to be really bad at identifying salutes or something and for that person, who isn’t him, to be confused. You’ve got to remember that blackjack’s posts are essentially meaningless.


In general, yes. If you saw an isolated comment on Reddit of someone challenging claims like "there are no upsides to tariffs" or "there is zero risk of adverse events from the COVID vaccine" then 9 times out of 10 that person is going to be someone that supports Trump's tariffs or opposes taking the COVID vaccine so you can make some assumptions about positions they hold. But surely you see how incredibly stupid it is to think that Kwark, of all people, is making the point that Trump getting elected is a sign that America is getting better. It's even more stupid when he immediately clarifies what he meant and instead of being like "oh okay" to be like "nah... bro... no take backsies." Making the faulty assumptions is one thing. Doubling down on the faulty assumptions after they've clarified their statement is a whole other ballgame.
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12405 Posts
April 15 2025 23:07 GMT
#7898
On April 16 2025 07:57 BlackJack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 06:30 Nebuchad wrote:
On April 16 2025 06:06 BlackJack wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:13 KwarK wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Looks like KwarK wins again

Nice to see you here GH. Thanks for your support. You still making up quotes and ascribing them to other people as your main form of debate? I've learned a trick or two from you.

You realize I didn't make up the quote that I included the full text and linked the original of, or have you completely lost touch with reality?


Except the quoted text is not what you ascribed him saying. He said "America is getting better." You said he said "Trump winning the election is a sign America is getting better." It's not even close to the same thing. He even explained your error in his next post.

This pisses me off because it's an incredibly simple point to understand. It's a "two steps forward one step back" kind of thing. An 8 year old could understand this point. It doesn't mean every step is in the right direction but in the long run you're moving in the right direction. The only reason to misunderstand this is through ignorance or malice, so take your pick.

This happens way to often on this forum (usually to me tbh). No matter how obvious the misinterpretation is more people will jump in and agree with the uncharitable interpretation just to win internet arguments, I guess. But the one person that I never see doing this is Kwark. Maybe he just grasps the English language better than most people here. We often disagree but the one thing I can be sure if I'm arguing with him is that the disagreement will be an ideological one and not because he has done a shit job at understanding my point.


I suspect the reason why this happens to you a lot is because people expect other people in general to post with some sort of objective in mind. Like, we're in this context in which Trump is fucking everything up, and the large majority of your posting is still about how Democrats are slightly unfair in their Trump criticism when it comes to this point of detail or that point of detail, or how there's this DEI scandal about some woke thing somewhere; the natural inclination for a lot of people is that you must be doing it for a reason, and then they search for that reason. Is it because you support this, or that; they're trying to figure it out. Drone made a good point yesterday that you were probably not doing it with an objective, that you were just nitpicking for the sake of it, and that made sense to me. I would then add that you've spent so long on team "Democrats are bad" and it feels comfortable to continue being on that team no matter what happens now. But I could be wrong too! There's no way to tell, really. Or as someone who grasps the English language better than most people once said,

On March 26 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
Blackjack isn’t arguing that it wasn’t a Nazi salute, he’s clear that it was. He’s arguing for the sake of arguing. His point is that it’s possible for someone, but not him, to be really bad at identifying salutes or something and for that person, who isn’t him, to be confused. You’ve got to remember that blackjack’s posts are essentially meaningless.


In general, yes. If you saw an isolated comment on Reddit of someone challenging claims like "there are no upsides to tariffs" or "there is zero risk of adverse events from the COVID vaccine" then 9 times out of 10 that person is going to be someone that supports Trump's tariffs or opposes taking the COVID vaccine so you can make some assumptions about positions they hold. But surely you see how incredibly stupid it is to think that Kwark, of all people, is making the point that Trump getting elected is a sign that America is getting better. It's even more stupid when he immediately clarifies what he meant and instead of being like "oh okay" to be like "nah... bro... no take backsies." Making the faulty assumptions is one thing. Doubling down on the faulty assumptions after they've clarified their statement is a whole other ballgame.


Sure yeah that makes sense (except the part about thinking that America is getting better).
No will to live, no wish to die
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43633 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-04-15 23:38:20
April 15 2025 23:37 GMT
#7899
On April 16 2025 08:07 Nebuchad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 07:57 BlackJack wrote:
On April 16 2025 06:30 Nebuchad wrote:
On April 16 2025 06:06 BlackJack wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:13 KwarK wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Looks like KwarK wins again

Nice to see you here GH. Thanks for your support. You still making up quotes and ascribing them to other people as your main form of debate? I've learned a trick or two from you.

You realize I didn't make up the quote that I included the full text and linked the original of, or have you completely lost touch with reality?


Except the quoted text is not what you ascribed him saying. He said "America is getting better." You said he said "Trump winning the election is a sign America is getting better." It's not even close to the same thing. He even explained your error in his next post.

This pisses me off because it's an incredibly simple point to understand. It's a "two steps forward one step back" kind of thing. An 8 year old could understand this point. It doesn't mean every step is in the right direction but in the long run you're moving in the right direction. The only reason to misunderstand this is through ignorance or malice, so take your pick.

This happens way to often on this forum (usually to me tbh). No matter how obvious the misinterpretation is more people will jump in and agree with the uncharitable interpretation just to win internet arguments, I guess. But the one person that I never see doing this is Kwark. Maybe he just grasps the English language better than most people here. We often disagree but the one thing I can be sure if I'm arguing with him is that the disagreement will be an ideological one and not because he has done a shit job at understanding my point.


I suspect the reason why this happens to you a lot is because people expect other people in general to post with some sort of objective in mind. Like, we're in this context in which Trump is fucking everything up, and the large majority of your posting is still about how Democrats are slightly unfair in their Trump criticism when it comes to this point of detail or that point of detail, or how there's this DEI scandal about some woke thing somewhere; the natural inclination for a lot of people is that you must be doing it for a reason, and then they search for that reason. Is it because you support this, or that; they're trying to figure it out. Drone made a good point yesterday that you were probably not doing it with an objective, that you were just nitpicking for the sake of it, and that made sense to me. I would then add that you've spent so long on team "Democrats are bad" and it feels comfortable to continue being on that team no matter what happens now. But I could be wrong too! There's no way to tell, really. Or as someone who grasps the English language better than most people once said,

On March 26 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
Blackjack isn’t arguing that it wasn’t a Nazi salute, he’s clear that it was. He’s arguing for the sake of arguing. His point is that it’s possible for someone, but not him, to be really bad at identifying salutes or something and for that person, who isn’t him, to be confused. You’ve got to remember that blackjack’s posts are essentially meaningless.


In general, yes. If you saw an isolated comment on Reddit of someone challenging claims like "there are no upsides to tariffs" or "there is zero risk of adverse events from the COVID vaccine" then 9 times out of 10 that person is going to be someone that supports Trump's tariffs or opposes taking the COVID vaccine so you can make some assumptions about positions they hold. But surely you see how incredibly stupid it is to think that Kwark, of all people, is making the point that Trump getting elected is a sign that America is getting better. It's even more stupid when he immediately clarifies what he meant and instead of being like "oh okay" to be like "nah... bro... no take backsies." Making the faulty assumptions is one thing. Doubling down on the faulty assumptions after they've clarified their statement is a whole other ballgame.


Sure yeah that makes sense (except the part about thinking that America is getting better).

Wait, what?

What I originally said was that America had gotten better since the days of the Confederacy. That was the specific example I used.
The US has had some real monsters in charge. Plus that time it broke into two countries because half of them wanted to own people.

GH misquoted that to pretend I said that Trump was preferable to Hillary when in fact I was saying that Trump was preferable to the Confederacy.

But now that all the misquotes have been cleared up at exhausting length and it's clear that this is just an outright statement of preference between Trump and the Confederacy you're landing on team Confederacy. That's a weird take boy.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12405 Posts
April 15 2025 23:48 GMT
#7900
On April 16 2025 08:37 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2025 08:07 Nebuchad wrote:
On April 16 2025 07:57 BlackJack wrote:
On April 16 2025 06:30 Nebuchad wrote:
On April 16 2025 06:06 BlackJack wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:20 GreenHorizons wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:13 KwarK wrote:
On April 16 2025 04:07 GreenHorizons wrote:
Looks like KwarK wins again

Nice to see you here GH. Thanks for your support. You still making up quotes and ascribing them to other people as your main form of debate? I've learned a trick or two from you.

You realize I didn't make up the quote that I included the full text and linked the original of, or have you completely lost touch with reality?


Except the quoted text is not what you ascribed him saying. He said "America is getting better." You said he said "Trump winning the election is a sign America is getting better." It's not even close to the same thing. He even explained your error in his next post.

This pisses me off because it's an incredibly simple point to understand. It's a "two steps forward one step back" kind of thing. An 8 year old could understand this point. It doesn't mean every step is in the right direction but in the long run you're moving in the right direction. The only reason to misunderstand this is through ignorance or malice, so take your pick.

This happens way to often on this forum (usually to me tbh). No matter how obvious the misinterpretation is more people will jump in and agree with the uncharitable interpretation just to win internet arguments, I guess. But the one person that I never see doing this is Kwark. Maybe he just grasps the English language better than most people here. We often disagree but the one thing I can be sure if I'm arguing with him is that the disagreement will be an ideological one and not because he has done a shit job at understanding my point.


I suspect the reason why this happens to you a lot is because people expect other people in general to post with some sort of objective in mind. Like, we're in this context in which Trump is fucking everything up, and the large majority of your posting is still about how Democrats are slightly unfair in their Trump criticism when it comes to this point of detail or that point of detail, or how there's this DEI scandal about some woke thing somewhere; the natural inclination for a lot of people is that you must be doing it for a reason, and then they search for that reason. Is it because you support this, or that; they're trying to figure it out. Drone made a good point yesterday that you were probably not doing it with an objective, that you were just nitpicking for the sake of it, and that made sense to me. I would then add that you've spent so long on team "Democrats are bad" and it feels comfortable to continue being on that team no matter what happens now. But I could be wrong too! There's no way to tell, really. Or as someone who grasps the English language better than most people once said,

On March 26 2025 08:10 KwarK wrote:
Blackjack isn’t arguing that it wasn’t a Nazi salute, he’s clear that it was. He’s arguing for the sake of arguing. His point is that it’s possible for someone, but not him, to be really bad at identifying salutes or something and for that person, who isn’t him, to be confused. You’ve got to remember that blackjack’s posts are essentially meaningless.


In general, yes. If you saw an isolated comment on Reddit of someone challenging claims like "there are no upsides to tariffs" or "there is zero risk of adverse events from the COVID vaccine" then 9 times out of 10 that person is going to be someone that supports Trump's tariffs or opposes taking the COVID vaccine so you can make some assumptions about positions they hold. But surely you see how incredibly stupid it is to think that Kwark, of all people, is making the point that Trump getting elected is a sign that America is getting better. It's even more stupid when he immediately clarifies what he meant and instead of being like "oh okay" to be like "nah... bro... no take backsies." Making the faulty assumptions is one thing. Doubling down on the faulty assumptions after they've clarified their statement is a whole other ballgame.


Sure yeah that makes sense (except the part about thinking that America is getting better).

Wait, what?

What I originally said was that America had gotten better since the days of the Confederacy. That was the specific example I used.
Show nested quote +
The US has had some real monsters in charge. Plus that time it broke into two countries because half of them wanted to own people.

GH misquoted that to pretend I said that Trump was preferable to Hillary when in fact I was saying that Trump was preferable to the Confederacy.

But now that all the misquotes have been cleared up at exhausting length and it's clear that this is just an outright statement of preference between Trump and the Confederacy you're landing on team Confederacy. That's a weird take boy.


There is a way to make this argument tbh (like this for example ), but nah I don't feel it in my core just yet. What I'm reading is "is getting better", not "has gotten better", which states that there's currently a process going in the right direction, and that's silly. But I don't think you or I care that much?
No will to live, no wish to die
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