EPTThe China Politics Thread - Page 46
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6231 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4311 Posts
One could say that Chinese individuals and groups can express themselves the way they want, and they can live under the (highly authoritarian) regime - until they suddenly can't. In this way the CCP gaslights the Chinese people all the time. The known fact is that people can never question the CCP. This is practically speaking law. There's a more sinister problem though: the CCP selectively and arbitrarily takes freedoms away for various types of political or economic gain. They don't apply their policies cohesively, but instead very selectively. That means that any Chinese person or group can, at any random moment, have their rights stripped away from them, and this is typically done without cementing it as law, so that never all Chinese people are affected all at once, but only some of them, while the remaining people are shielded from arbitrary crackdowns or neglect. Equally selective and arbitrary is the targeted funding of areas, projects, etc. This "system" is supported by a strong web of various types of propaganda. The beautiful is on open display, while the ugly is hidden away. At least wherever that's possible. As a Chinese person you can never be sure what comes next. You could suddenly be uprooted, underfunded or imprisoned, without ever seeing it coming, and there's no accountability by the authorities. Political analysts are having a hard time describing the Chinese system as something cohesive. It's hardly a system at all besides the obvious. It's neither socialist nor capitalist - it's both at the same time, side by side and at different times. It's neither collectivist nor individualist - it's both at the same time, side by side and at different times. The CCP is like a gaslighting, all powerful, overbearing parent - unless they aren't. They favor some of their children and disfavor others. Like narcissistic parents. It's hard to describe it better. | ||
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pebble444
Italy2497 Posts
On September 08 2023 19:33 Magic Powers wrote: The only two things I can say about modern China's governance is that it's extremely nationalistic, and that the CCP is an indisputable, unanswering authority. Hierarchy is everything in China. Power can never come from below. One could say that Chinese individuals and groups can express themselves the way they want, and they can live under the (highly authoritarian) regime - until they suddenly can't. In this way the CCP gaslights the Chinese people all the time. The known fact is that people can never question the CCP. This is practically speaking law. There's a more sinister problem though: the CCP selectively and arbitrarily takes freedoms away for various types of political or economic gain. They don't apply their policies cohesively, but instead very selectively. That means that any Chinese person or group can, at any random moment, have their rights stripped away from them, and this is typically done without cementing it as law, so that never all Chinese people are affected all at once, but only some of them, while the remaining people are shielded from arbitrary crackdowns or neglect. Equally selective and arbitrary is the targeted funding of areas, projects, etc. This "system" is supported by a strong web of various types of propaganda. The beautiful is on open display, while the ugly is hidden away. At least wherever that's possible. As a Chinese person you can never be sure what comes next. You could suddenly be uprooted, underfunded or imprisoned, without ever seeing it coming, and there's no accountability by the authorities. Political analysts are having a hard time describing the Chinese system as something cohesive. It's hardly a system at all besides the obvious. It's neither socialist nor capitalist - it's both at the same time, side by side and at different times. It's neither collectivist nor individualist - it's both at the same time, side by side and at different times. The CCP is like a gaslighting, all powerful, overbearing parent - unless they aren't. They favor some of their children and disfavor others. Like narcissistic parents. It's hard to describe it better. Very well spoken; there is elements of a monarchy, elements of a theocracy, but it’s not based on religion per se. More like a person belief system of the people in the chain of command. And above all as you said, like a person who cannot take or accept or hear any criticism; At the basis of this pillar of power, and preferential or abusive treatment, is the lack of a cohesive system that garanties modern human rights. The right to speak freely and peacefully without negative consequences. The right for privacy. And the right for internet freedom, which nowadays, in this era of information, is quintessential. Chinese citizens may or not have these rights. Which is selective. Which in turn points to a monarchy, where certain families and people have privileges, and money, and power. Let’s not also forget how the Chinese government has foreign policies that are oppressive, brutalizing and manipulative. They will not let go of Tibet, they created a personal 1984 with the uygers, and claim to be the owners of the sea to the south that should be international waters. Let’s face it, when North Korea is your best friend, and you are their best friend, that already gives you a good indication of where you are at | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17341 Posts
I wonder how long it'll take for the city to recover, for such a bustling center of technology to be effectively put out of commission this way. Considering they also have a wide network of underground tunnels, subway, underground parking lots and gigantic shopping centers that go 4 stories below the ground which will now be completely flooded. Economic damage just from the flooded goods in those shopping centers and millions of cars being destroyed by water is going to be huge. Hong Kong got hit pretty bad too as Shenzhen released their flood gates from the reservoir at midnight and flooded HK. | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States654 Posts
The short summary of understanding CCP is yours is mine mine is still mine. Just bunch of bandit who became the government. Who is trying to rob the rest of the world after robbing China for past however many years since that came in power. No one technically owns anything in China. Especially land. You don’t even own yourself. The anti spy law basically means that they can jail anyone including foreigners at will at any given time without proper evidence. I never understood how western supply chain ended up in China in the first place. A place who wants to kill the west the whole time. It baffles my mind. Luckily our family benefited from this decision so we are able to become US citizen now. But looking back this whole thing never made any sense. There is no actual government in China. Just a gang. All the anti corruption is a joke. It works as they get quota on how many people they will jail for corruption. And leader of the city or district basically point out who is next on the list to clear political opposition. Nothing is actually based on law or order. You piss off the pimp you go to jail. I have relative who is anti corruption officer in China and they told me how the system work. And if you ever run business in China. All the departments collect your money like gang protection fee. If you become successful business man in China you are in bed with the devil. You have to give in your soul for the money. Sorry for the random rant. I just thought this might give you guys some idea on how China really is. And now China is all the way back to the great cultural revolution kind of period. The booming China that worked with the west as we know in the past 40 some year is dead. | ||
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riotjune
United States3393 Posts
On September 12 2023 01:46 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: I am surprised to see a thread like this on TL. Just my 5 cent as someone who was born in China and grew up in China until 14 when I moved to US. All I can tell you is the moment a Chinese is born they are taught to hate the west. Especially US. People were celebrating on city square when 911 happened out of joy. And is not people cannot question the communist party. It is so brain washed if you had the luck to speak to some Chinese mainlander who just visiting outside world for the first time. You will not be surprised they take it personal if you bad mouth the CCP. It’s totally nationalistic to a degree matching and above the level of Nazi back in history. The short summary of understanding CCP is yours is mine mine is still mine. Just bunch of bandit who became the government. Who is trying to rob the rest of the world after robbing China for past however many years since that came in power. No one technically owns anything in China. Especially land. You don’t even own yourself. The anti spy law basically means that they can jail anyone including foreigners at will at any given time without proper evidence. I never understood how western supply chain ended up in China in the first place. A place who wants to kill the west the whole time. It baffles my mind. Luckily our family benefited from this decision so we are able to become US citizen now. But looking back this whole thing never made any sense. There is no actual government in China. Just a gang. All the anti corruption is a joke. It works as they get quota on how many people they will jail for corruption. And leader of the city or district basically point out who is next on the list to clear political opposition. Nothing is actually based on law or order. You piss off the pimp you go to jail. I have relative who is anti corruption officer in China and they told me how the system work. And if you ever run business in China. All the departments collect your money like gang protection fee. If you become successful business man in China you are in bed with the devil. You have to give in your soul for the money. Sorry for the random rant. I just thought this might give you guys some idea on how China really is. And now China is all the way back to the great cultural revolution kind of period. The booming China that worked with the west as we know in the past 40 some year is dead. Don't apologize for what you think is a random rant. It's a legitimate opinion, and from what I'm seeing, a lot of people feel the same way. If you want to know how the western supply chain ended up in China, you probably have to start with the history before either of us were born, in Nixon and Kissinger's era, and culminating with Clinton allowing China to finally join the WTO (not long after Tiananmen Square even). Which now in hindsight, were all bad foreign policy decisions from America's standpoint now that Xi's going full dictator and is now biting the hand that fed him all those decades ago. Back in the 90s, Deng Xiaoping realized one thing: letting USA take the lead, and siding with and cooperating with them will make your country rich af, and China would be foolish not to do so. Just look at Germany and Japan, the economic powerhouses of the time in Europe and Asia respectively. The problem is, what happens when your eventual successor decides to become an ambitious power-hungry dictator, as 99.9% of dictators do (sorry it's just human nature), and decides to aggressively claim and "annex" your smaller neighbors' lands, islands, and international seas (at the expense and irritation of all countries involved, pushing them away from China and closer to the US), as well as attempt to replace US's brand of imperialism (which usually is a net positive with economic benefits for countries willing to put up with it) with their own brand of CCP imperialism, just because China's got a couple of nukes? Yea America, we done goofed, but at least we learned from that and are finally doing what we should've done from the beginning after a bunch of Chinese students and protesters got massacred, starting with Trump's sanctions against China (one of the few good things he did). Xi's mistake was mistaking America's kindness for weakness, and now he's paying for it. The fact that he's best friends with the genocidal fascist who's invaded Ukraine doesn't help him either, as he himself is eyeing Taiwan as a fat man would a Twinkie. It's no secret the CCP is just a band of backstabbing thieves and bandits, taking whatever they want by force and oppression. All the land they now own were forcibly taken from legit landowners in the past. And their reputation for having a known predisposition to backstab and betray others isn't by coincidence either, they even backstab their own people (which is how Taiwan came to be). There's a saying you might or might not have heard of before: "You just can't trust the Chinese." I'll be more specific and change that to "You just can't trust the CCP." When Japan's prime minister came to China to apologize for Nanjing, Mao was quoted having said something along the lines of, "Don't apologize. Without your help, we would never have ganked our nationalist brothers as effectively as we did, so thanks!" (And because of this one weird interaction, maybe that's why Japan never apologized to Korea either?) The CCP has always had a long list of historical precedents of looting, betrayal, and dishonesty, so I don't know why the United States would ever take what they say at face value. There are a lot of expatriates who emigrated from China, and they usually talk shit about the CCP (finally without consequences), for good reason. You'll find no shortage of their choice words and remarks in any media that's not constrained within the Great Firewall of China. Protestors from Hong Kong now travel to Taiwan to protest against the CCP to avoid the police beatings and incarcerations (nice loophole lol). Add that to Taiwan reminding China that they have democratic elections of free people every four years, and you can see why China gobbling up Taiwan like a greedy blob would remove a lot of headaches for the CCP that's obsessed with controlling everything and everyone just to stay in power. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17341 Posts
On September 12 2023 06:21 riotjune wrote: Which now in hindsight, were all bad foreign policy decisions from America's standpoint now that Xi's going full dictator and is now biting the hand that fed him all those decades ago. USA has a weird tendency of creating dictators (Cuba, the Middle East, South America). I guess this is the side effect of helping one faction that'll push the policies you want as opposed to helping the country as a whole, but that's for another topic  Speaking of Chinese ex-pats I think it's not always the case that they freely criticize CCP. A lot of people from China that's abroad is still pretty walled off in various China Towns and such. CCP maintains police stations abroad too. There's a reason why they say that the Chinese spy network is one of the best because nearly every single person from China that's abroad is a potential asset/agent. I think that Chinese people abroad who are criticizing CCP are either people who have left China because they already knew it was bad and tried to escape or descendants of people who didn't get sucked into China Towns (as I think it could take a generation or two of living abroad to "westernize" some people). That's just my speculation though, based on what I read and heard people say as I don't have much personal experience with that (we do have quite a few Chinese people in Poland but we don't have China Towns and such). | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17341 Posts
1. In Inner Mongolia they set up a coal strip mine that was sitting on uranium. Delivering polluted coal to railways and power plants is one thing but now after the heavy rains and flooding the water that evaporated is creating radioactive rain. 2. Guangzhou Crocodile Park (largest in the world) got flooded. It hosted around 100k crocodiles and alligators which are now being seen swimming in residential areas. 3. Influx of water brought increased number of mosquitos and there are reports of Dengue fever. It's kinda like watching post-apocalyptic movie but live... | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17341 Posts
It might be a sign of real estate and bond crisis we saw earlier spreading to other sectors. Seeing how real estate market was very big in China and basically propping up their economy when it failed there were bound to be ripples. | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States654 Posts
On September 19 2023 19:15 Manit0u wrote: I'm not sure yet what could this mean exactly but it seems that China's financial sector is having troubles. According to the Shanghai Paper Exchange which releases some financial reports every month 271 banks in China have defaulted. 167 of those are branches of the biggest state-owned banks. It might be a sign of real estate and bond crisis we saw earlier spreading to other sectors. Seeing how real estate market was very big in China and basically propping up their economy when it failed there were bound to be ripples. It’s only natural this happens. Chinese population is at decline. So it’s much worse than what Japan had experienced in the lost years. It’s likely that half of the provinces in China cannot pay out salary for their government workers too. So some really strange things are happening. In he bei China. A guy works for a company oversea has to use VPN. The police made him pay 200 CNY for illegal use of VPN. And on top of this they made him give up the salary he made in the past 3 years which is roughly 1 million CNY. Somewhere around 150k usd or so. | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States654 Posts
Edit: a bit more update, the guy probably didn't pay tax, and offended some rules on money laundering, but the fun fact is the VPN usage can be used to start investigating everyone. :D | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23295 Posts
China may be asking too much of the US/Trump by wanting them to “demonstrate an attitude of equality, respect and mutual benefit” “The United States is still imposing arbitrary tariffs on China and relentlessly applying extreme pressure. China firmly opposes this and will never accept such domineering and bullying behavior,” Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson Lin Jian told a regular news conference. After the latest round kicked in on Wednesday, Lin told media that US needed to “demonstrate an attitude of equality, respect and mutual benefit” if it truly wanted to resolve the trade war through dialogue. “If the US disregards the interests of both countries and the international community and insists on waging a tariff war and trade war, China will fight to the end,” Lin added. www.cnn.com | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4338 Posts
Totally sane and sustainable. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23295 Posts
On April 11 2025 19:23 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: If Trump doesn't back down they can always just go massive stimulus and build more ghost cities to boost GDP. Totally sane and sustainable. If Trump doesn't back down, they'll probably be a lone super power and the US will be a glorified patchwork of Megaton cities. | ||
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mounteast02
24 Posts
Personally, I believe china make the right move to confront usa the way it did, even if eventually it cost china a great deal of suffering. If china (or any country) allow the us to do whatever it want, without much if any cost, ultimately the usa will take everything. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23295 Posts
On April 12 2025 00:44 mounteast02 wrote: It is far too early to predict the "winner" (whatever it means) of the trade war between china and usa. Personally, I believe china make the right move to confront usa the way it did, even if eventually it cost china a great deal of suffering. If china (or any country) allow the us to do whatever it want, without much if any cost, ultimately the usa will take everything. Being in the US it feels pretty clear we're going to lose this, but yeah, China's definitely making the right call. It's basically what I was talking about back when Kwark was trying to convince people Trump winning the election would be a sign of how the US is getting better On August 14 2023 15:08 GreenHorizons wrote: The gaslighting from Serm is silly. I appreciate you calling out the racism too. Even if people do buy into the childish and reductive "good guy vs bad guy" narratives, China as a competitive peer in a multi-polar world would act as desperately needed check to the US's unending "good guy flavored" invasions, coups, economic/military strong-arming, assassination attempts, ethnic cleansing campaigns, lingering colonialism, etc. China being a socialist alternative for people around the world is definitely preferable, while also being far from certain imo. The obviously worst possible (yet overwhelmingly favored by westerners) outcome is for China to end up (arguably staying) in a subordinate capitalist role under US dominated hegemonic racial capitalism. None of that means China is perfect btw, for anyone that needs that disclaimer. | ||
KwarK
United States42967 Posts
On April 12 2025 00:50 GreenHorizons wrote: Kwark was trying to convince people Trump winning the election would be a sign of how the US is getting better Fuck off | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23295 Posts
On April 12 2025 09:21 KwarK wrote: Fuck off I apologize for reminding you, but it was a really silly thing to believe/argue and Trump/the US is demonstrating that for you. On August 14 2023 16:44 KwarK wrote: Trump is awful, of course. But is he historically awful? + Show Spoiler + The US has had some real monsters in charge. Plus that time it broke into two countries because half of them wanted to own people. Trump mainly just wants to force the media to suck his dick because he’s a narcissist with a gaping void where you’d expect a soul. He’s motivated entirely by ego, he lives for the rallies and the Twitter arguments and the petty name calling. Bush 2 also stole an election and then he killed a quarter million people. America is getting better. As Gorsameth points out: On April 10 2025 20:17 Gorsameth wrote: Nothing mature about it, Trump got to place 10% blanket tariffs without a reciprocal response. Sad that the world is having to look to China of all places to teach America not to fuck around. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13984 Posts
Kwark was saying that the US has been getting better from the time it went to war with itself over slavery. You trying to link that to him saying that Trump winning was a sign that the US was getting better is very on brand for you. | ||
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