Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On October 02 2025 11:34 decafchicken wrote: Meanwhile in my city of chicago, 300 federal paramilitary troops stormed an entire complex building, broke into, and detained everyone in the ~40 apartments including women children and citizens to arrest a handful of undocumented immigrants.
Ope they raided a HOMELESS SHELTER too.
Might as well just sharpie over the 4th amendment
It's wild that shit is so bad this didn't even get acknowledged/discussed besides you. NO warrants just snatched US citizens up out of their home.
Just because someone is in a longtime Democrat controlled city, in a longtime Democrat controlled state, doesn't mean they'll protect you. You might want to put a rush on that Belgium thing (though nowhere will be safe with a fascist US).
How did you manage to make this about Democrats? Like, is it just automatic for you or something?
That means I have to take a more holistic look at what is happening. It's not just that these illegal fascist raids are happening, it's that they're happening in basically the center of the most long-standing Democrat controlled (including law enforcement) area in the country with almost no reaction nationally.
It feels very much like a crowbarring of things to fit your ideological presuppositions, rather than using it as a lens of analysis, alongside other frameworks to develop a genuinely holistic analysis.
Yes, it is more holistic.
There's not a lot of places in the country where Democrats have more long-standing power to actually prevent something like this/protect their citizens. It's also important to remember that law enforcement in Chicago has been under Democrat control for decades (almost entirely uninterrupted) where similar abuse of citizens and abusive practices has been laying the groundwork for fascism for decades.
Or I could just say "Look! Orange Man Bad!" (which he is and worse) and then you guys would be complaining about the shredding of the 4th amendment instead of my posting about it?
On October 02 2025 11:34 decafchicken wrote: Meanwhile in my city of chicago, 300 federal paramilitary troops stormed an entire complex building, broke into, and detained everyone in the ~40 apartments including women children and citizens to arrest a handful of undocumented immigrants.
Ope they raided a HOMELESS SHELTER too.
Might as well just sharpie over the 4th amendment
It's wild that shit is so bad this didn't even get acknowledged/discussed besides you. NO warrants just snatched US citizens up out of their home.
Just because someone is in a longtime Democrat controlled city, in a longtime Democrat controlled state, doesn't mean they'll protect you. You might want to put a rush on that Belgium thing (though nowhere will be safe with a fascist US).
How did you manage to make this about Democrats? Like, is it just automatic for you or something?
Ask yourself "what's something a Republican pretending to be leftwing on the Internet would say" and coincidentally it's always the same things GH is saying.
On October 02 2025 11:34 decafchicken wrote: Meanwhile in my city of chicago, 300 federal paramilitary troops stormed an entire complex building, broke into, and detained everyone in the ~40 apartments including women children and citizens to arrest a handful of undocumented immigrants.
Ope they raided a HOMELESS SHELTER too.
Might as well just sharpie over the 4th amendment
It's wild that shit is so bad this didn't even get acknowledged/discussed besides you. NO warrants just snatched US citizens up out of their home.
Just because someone is in a longtime Democrat controlled city, in a longtime Democrat controlled state, doesn't mean they'll protect you. You might want to put a rush on that Belgium thing (though nowhere will be safe with a fascist US).
How did you manage to make this about Democrats? Like, is it just automatic for you or something?
That means I have to take a more holistic look at what is happening. It's not just that these illegal fascist raids are happening, it's that they're happening in basically the center of the most long-standing Democrat controlled (including law enforcement) area in the country with almost no reaction nationally.
It feels very much like a crowbarring of things to fit your ideological presuppositions, rather than using it as a lens of analysis, alongside other frameworks to develop a genuinely holistic analysis.
Yes, it is more holistic.
There's not a lot of places in the country where Democrats have more long-standing power to actually prevent something like this/protect their citizens. It's also important to remember that law enforcement in Chicago has been under Democrat control for decades (almost entirely uninterrupted) where similar abuse of citizens and abusive practices has been laying the groundwork for fascism for decades.
Or I could just say "Look! Orange Man Bad!" (which he is and worse) and then you guys would be complaining about the shredding of the 4th amendment instead of my posting about it?
The Republicans and Democrats both hate CPD, one for them abusing civilians and the other for not abusing them enough. But in no way is it comparable to what trump is doing and has made a lot of progression away from violating rights instead of attacking them.
ICE is pushing people farther every day trying to incite violence so they can go full martial law. Teargassing/pepper balling protesters and reporters, as of today they've just been liberalling smoke bombing areas then driving away, they've started stalking school children to the point where my friend and other parents are walking home Hispanic kids for their parents, etc.
On October 04 2025 04:20 decafchicken wrote: How is life in Belgium? Everyday I get closer to moving to there (i have dual citizenship from my grandpa) before America turns fully into a fascist hell hole.
We all hate each other but vowed to make it work, lol. Belgium is a beautiful messy paradox. We're surrounded by procedural powerhouses like Netherlands and Germany, but also have the (chaotic) French on the south so I guess we're like the average of our 5 best friends or something. It's great and terrible at the same time. We complain but move on. I don't know how to explain it very well.
couple years ago there was a hilarious Economist article describing "Belgian Zen".
On October 04 2025 04:20 decafchicken wrote: How is life in Belgium? Everyday I get closer to moving to there (i have dual citizenship from my grandpa) before America turns fully into a fascist hell hole.
We all hate each other but vowed to make it work, lol. Belgium is a beautiful messy paradox. We're surrounded by procedural powerhouses like Netherlands and Germany, but also have the (chaotic) French on the south so I guess we're like the average of our 5 best friends or something. It's great and terrible at the same time. We complain but move on. I don't know how to explain it very well.
I'm sold. I've never been but it sounds like home.
On October 02 2025 11:34 decafchicken wrote: Meanwhile in my city of chicago, 300 federal paramilitary troops stormed an entire complex building, broke into, and detained everyone in the ~40 apartments including women children and citizens to arrest a handful of undocumented immigrants.
Ope they raided a HOMELESS SHELTER too.
Might as well just sharpie over the 4th amendment
It's wild that shit is so bad this didn't even get acknowledged/discussed besides you. NO warrants just snatched US citizens up out of their home.
Just because someone is in a longtime Democrat controlled city, in a longtime Democrat controlled state, doesn't mean they'll protect you. You might want to put a rush on that Belgium thing (though nowhere will be safe with a fascist US).
How did you manage to make this about Democrats? Like, is it just automatic for you or something?
That means I have to take a more holistic look at what is happening. It's not just that these illegal fascist raids are happening, it's that they're happening in basically the center of the most long-standing Democrat controlled (including law enforcement) area in the country with almost no reaction nationally.
It feels very much like a crowbarring of things to fit your ideological presuppositions, rather than using it as a lens of analysis, alongside other frameworks to develop a genuinely holistic analysis.
Yes, it is more holistic.
There's not a lot of places in the country where Democrats have more long-standing power to actually prevent something like this/protect their citizens. It's also important to remember that law enforcement in Chicago has been under Democrat control for decades (almost entirely uninterrupted) where similar abuse of citizens and abusive practices has been laying the groundwork for fascism for decades.
Or I could just say "Look! Orange Man Bad!" (which he is and worse) and then you guys would be complaining about the shredding of the 4th amendment instead of my posting about it?
The Republicans and Democrats both hate CPD, one for them abusing civilians and the other for not abusing them enough. But in no way is it comparable to what trump is doing and has made a lot of progression away from violating rights instead of attacking them.
ICE is pushing people farther every day trying to incite violence so they can go full martial law. Teargassing/pepper balling protesters and reporters, as of today they've just been liberalling smoke bombing areas then driving away, they've started stalking school children to the point where my friend and other parents are walking home Hispanic kids for their parents, etc.
The CPD is under the jurisdiction of the Chicago City Council. For those not familiar, it has 50 seats, 48 of which are held by Democrats, the other two by Independents. Not really reasonable to blame Republicans.
More importantly, that's who is supposed to intervene if the FBI/ICE/etc are breaking the law locally and harassing Chicagoans. I commend whatever improvements have been made, but clearly you aren't banking on them protecting you, so you can't really dispute that they're inadequate at best. Not everyone is as privileged to be able to escape across the ocean if they get too scared for whatever time that buys them.
On October 02 2025 11:34 decafchicken wrote: Meanwhile in my city of chicago, 300 federal paramilitary troops stormed an entire complex building, broke into, and detained everyone in the ~40 apartments including women children and citizens to arrest a handful of undocumented immigrants.
Ope they raided a HOMELESS SHELTER too.
Might as well just sharpie over the 4th amendment
It's wild that shit is so bad this didn't even get acknowledged/discussed besides you. NO warrants just snatched US citizens up out of their home.
Just because someone is in a longtime Democrat controlled city, in a longtime Democrat controlled state, doesn't mean they'll protect you. You might want to put a rush on that Belgium thing (though nowhere will be safe with a fascist US).
How did you manage to make this about Democrats? Like, is it just automatic for you or something?
That means I have to take a more holistic look at what is happening. It's not just that these illegal fascist raids are happening, it's that they're happening in basically the center of the most long-standing Democrat controlled (including law enforcement) area in the country with almost no reaction nationally.
It feels very much like a crowbarring of things to fit your ideological presuppositions, rather than using it as a lens of analysis, alongside other frameworks to develop a genuinely holistic analysis.
Yes, it is more holistic.
There's not a lot of places in the country where Democrats have more long-standing power to actually prevent something like this/protect their citizens. It's also important to remember that law enforcement in Chicago has been under Democrat control for decades (almost entirely uninterrupted) where similar abuse of citizens and abusive practices has been laying the groundwork for fascism for decades.
Or I could just say "Look! Orange Man Bad!" (which he is and worse) and then you guys would be complaining about the shredding of the 4th amendment instead of my posting about it?
The Republicans and Democrats both hate CPD, one for them abusing civilians and the other for not abusing them enough. But in no way is it comparable to what trump is doing and has made a lot of progression away from violating rights instead of attacking them.
ICE is pushing people farther every day trying to incite violence so they can go full martial law. Teargassing/pepper balling protesters and reporters, as of today they've just been liberalling smoke bombing areas then driving away, they've started stalking school children to the point where my friend and other parents are walking home Hispanic kids for their parents, etc.
The CPD is under the jurisdiction of the Chicago City Council. For those not familiar, it has 50 seats, 48 of which are held by Democrats, the other two by Independents. Not really reasonable to blame Republicans.
Didn't blame anyone for anything. Policing in America has its roots in protecting slave owners and has been rotten to the core from inception, I was just pointing out that both sides bitch about the police here for separate reason.
More importantly, that's who is supposed to intervene if the FBI/ICE/etc are breaking the law locally and harassing Chicagoans. I commend whatever improvements have been made, but clearly you aren't banking on them protecting you, so you can't really dispute that they're inadequate at best. Not everyone is as privileged to be able to escape across the ocean if they get too scared for whatever time that buys them.
No, the police, even if we were in some fairytale land where their actual mission was to "protect and serve" locals, cannot interfere with FBI/ICE. Between the Supremacy clause and the INA, the local police have zero authority over federal agents. The ICE detention facility built a fence over a public road that violates state codes and is not essential for their duties, but all the recourse local officials had was a press conference where the fire chief said it was bad and prevents them from being able to perform emergency services.
All the leverage states previously had over federal overreach was based in the fact the feds don't have manpower and have to cooperate with local officials to do anything. That went out the window when ICE got a $150B budget (CPD is $2B) and the courts/congress ceded any checks to executive.
On October 02 2025 11:34 decafchicken wrote: Meanwhile in my city of chicago, 300 federal paramilitary troops stormed an entire complex building, broke into, and detained everyone in the ~40 apartments including women children and citizens to arrest a handful of undocumented immigrants.
Ope they raided a HOMELESS SHELTER too.
Might as well just sharpie over the 4th amendment
It's wild that shit is so bad this didn't even get acknowledged/discussed besides you. NO warrants just snatched US citizens up out of their home.
Just because someone is in a longtime Democrat controlled city, in a longtime Democrat controlled state, doesn't mean they'll protect you. You might want to put a rush on that Belgium thing (though nowhere will be safe with a fascist US).
How did you manage to make this about Democrats? Like, is it just automatic for you or something?
That means I have to take a more holistic look at what is happening. It's not just that these illegal fascist raids are happening, it's that they're happening in basically the center of the most long-standing Democrat controlled (including law enforcement) area in the country with almost no reaction nationally.
It feels very much like a crowbarring of things to fit your ideological presuppositions, rather than using it as a lens of analysis, alongside other frameworks to develop a genuinely holistic analysis.
Yes, it is more holistic.
There's not a lot of places in the country where Democrats have more long-standing power to actually prevent something like this/protect their citizens. It's also important to remember that law enforcement in Chicago has been under Democrat control for decades (almost entirely uninterrupted) where similar abuse of citizens and abusive practices has been laying the groundwork for fascism for decades.
Or I could just say "Look! Orange Man Bad!" (which he is and worse) and then you guys would be complaining about the shredding of the 4th amendment instead of my posting about it?
The Republicans and Democrats both hate CPD, one for them abusing civilians and the other for not abusing them enough. But in no way is it comparable to what trump is doing and has made a lot of progression away from violating rights instead of attacking them.
ICE is pushing people farther every day trying to incite violence so they can go full martial law. Teargassing/pepper balling protesters and reporters, as of today they've just been liberalling smoke bombing areas then driving away, they've started stalking school children to the point where my friend and other parents are walking home Hispanic kids for their parents, etc.
The CPD is under the jurisdiction of the Chicago City Council. For those not familiar, it has 50 seats, 48 of which are held by Democrats, the other two by Independents. Not really reasonable to blame Republicans.
Didn't blame anyone for anything. Policing in America has its roots in protecting slave owners and has been rotten to the core from inception, I was just pointing out that both sides bitch about the police here for separate reason.
More importantly, that's who is supposed to intervene if the FBI/ICE/etc are breaking the law locally and harassing Chicagoans. I commend whatever improvements have been made, but clearly you aren't banking on them protecting you, so you can't really dispute that they're inadequate at best. Not everyone is as privileged to be able to escape across the ocean if they get too scared for whatever time that buys them.
No, the police, even if we were in some fairytale land where their actual mission was to "protect and serve" locals, cannot interfere with FBI/ICE. Between the Supremacy clause and the INA, the local police have zero authority over federal agents. The ICE detention facility built a fence over a public road that violates state codes and is not essential for their duties, but all the recourse local officials had was a press conference where the fire chief said it was bad and prevents them from being able to perform emergency services.
Maybe you're right and Chicagoans need their own armed citizen defence force or to run for their lives?
The tension is growing every day. An armed citizen defense force is a non-starter against a federal paramilitary force. Running for their lives is reasonable. Eventually one of these will come true: A) Public backlash and whatever shreds of our institutions are left limits damage until mid terms and we fix things B) 1700s France happens C) 1930's Germany happens D) Some sort of 25th amendment or pre-erdogan Turkish military coup event then back to A)
On October 04 2025 11:42 decafchicken wrote: The tension is growing every day. An armed citizen defense force is a non-starter against a federal paramilitary force. Running for their lives is reasonable. Eventually one of these will come true: A) Public backlash and whatever shreds of our institutions are left limits damage until mid terms and we fix things B) 1700s France happens C) 1930's Germany happens D) Some sort of 25th amendment or pre-erdogan Turkish military coup event then back to A)
(EDIT: Run where btw? Because we'll be literally talking about running in many cases)
Perhaps against one that has already committed to slaughtering its innocent citizens, but if that's the case now, then getting slaughtered/running/joining the fascists are already the only options.
In this specific instance, outside of target zones like Portland and Chicago or outside of ICE's zone of power (anywhere within 100 miles of the border).
ICE has already shown every inclination to escalate force without cause or repercussion - they already murdered someone in Chicago for "assaulting an ice officer with his vehicle", he was just trying to drive away from masked unidentifiable people attacking him and the ICE officer that was "assaulted" was recently caught on a hot mic saying he was completely fine.
On October 03 2025 04:37 WombaT wrote: The idea that internet posting isn’t important is insane to me, given how that machinery is blatantly fuelling the worst of our politics. And, very obviously so.
I mean it’s either irrelevant or it isn’t. I don’t think you can be concerned about the social media rigmarole and misinformation, while simultaneously thinking posting is pointless and doesn’t have influence, even if merely on aggregate. Those are contradictory ideas.
I disagree. If the problem were CO2 emissions then the impact of what we're doing on TL is about as impactful as an individual forgetting to use a reusable cotton shopping bag. Sure, you can say that CO2 is either irrelevant or it's not, but scale matters. We can identify that there is an important issue, and that there is technically a link between an activity and that issue, without assigning that activity more weight than it is worth.
Big picture, sure, internet idea spread is changing things. No argument there, you'd be insane to deny it, 100% right. You make a new youtube account and within a few videos it is putting right wing content in your feed. You watch a right wing video and it suggests more and pretty soon you're chanting that the Jews will not replace us.
But that's algorithms, influencer culture, big tech, botnets upvoting/retweeting content, Russian money flowing to DW people, and so forth.
What we're doing here is early 2000s era text posting on a forum dedicated to an ancient video game. We don't even have a feed here. None of us are doing shortform clickbait video content. It's just not relevant.
I don't think internet forum discussions are meaningless. For me, it's been a good way to see different points of view and understand why some people make the choices they make. It may sound silly, but this forum has been the main source of my knowledge for US politics.
The other thing is that LLMs are trained on our (as in the broader context) text. Enough GH types talking about genocide enablers or the multiple ways democrats are particularly ineffective, it will get confidently spouted by some bot to some kid somewhere. The points you make, in aggregate, make their way to people's eyeballs.
It’s a question of scale. You say the forum posts have impacted you. Okay, but you’re not relevant either to the problem either. That’s the problem with the assertion that it we stopped engaging bad actors on TL and focused on good political posting on TL then we’d have fixed late stage capitalism on TL by now. Well, one of the problems at least.
Enough of it in enough places could have an impact as you say. But that’s an argument you make in support of building a million twitterbots, it doesn’t impact the reach we have here.
Hard to argue that TL is a hotbed for political activity and national politics influence , nor argument there! I don't think our reach is long, but it's also not zero. Do we have statistics on how many hits the thread gets?
For those forum posters that are more into programming: How hard would it be to set up a twitter bot that quote mines the thread? Doesn't feel like it should be that hard, maybe a genuine idea to try out.
Anyway, we are not fixing late stage capitalism here, and for me engaging with people I fundamentally disagree with is the point.
On October 04 2025 04:12 LightSpectra wrote: Yes, since there will be absolutely no obstructions to Democrats passing Medicare-for-All when they get power back.
Republicans and their donors know this, why is why they probably won't end the filibuster. The last thing Congressional Republicans want is for their constituents to blame them for not using the nuclear option to end the shutdown.
If the last thing they want is for their constituents to blame them for not using the nuclear option, wouldn't they use the nuclear option? Your sentences aren't working together.
And why would Republicans in your world allow Democrats to get power back? Ending the filibuster doesn't just mean passing a budget and opening a spending bill. Republicans can stack SCOTUS and fix federal elections so there's a streak of single party dominance not seen since FDR did the same thing.
On October 02 2025 11:34 decafchicken wrote: Meanwhile in my city of chicago, 300 federal paramilitary troops stormed an entire complex building, broke into, and detained everyone in the ~40 apartments including women children and citizens to arrest a handful of undocumented immigrants.
Ope they raided a HOMELESS SHELTER too.
Might as well just sharpie over the 4th amendment
It's wild that shit is so bad this didn't even get acknowledged/discussed besides you. NO warrants just snatched US citizens up out of their home.
Just because someone is in a longtime Democrat controlled city, in a longtime Democrat controlled state, doesn't mean they'll protect you. You might want to put a rush on that Belgium thing (though nowhere will be safe with a fascist US).
How did you manage to make this about Democrats? Like, is it just automatic for you or something?
It is kind of impressive at this point. GH manages to turn literally any topic into "democrats bad", even if the core issue is actually "republicans and their fascist state bad".
I wonder if this comes from the position of "obviously republicans are bad, everyone can see that, so we don't really need to say it, so lets talk about this closer problem with something we might potentially fix instead"
If there was ever a time to apply your second amendment and defend yourself for freedom, it sure seems to be now, with ICE and military overreach. And what I would personally do is start using banners everywhere that specify: we will use the second amendment. Just to signal to the other Americans - who may or may not be for the freedoms these targeted Americans want to enjoy - are aware how this actually works instead of them thinking they're just a bunch of loons shootin their guns to kill innocent government officials or whatever.
On October 04 2025 18:20 Uldridge wrote: If there was ever a time to apply your second amendment and defend yourself for freedom, it sure seems to be now, with ICE and military overreach. And what I would personally do is start using banners everywhere that specify: we will use the second amendment. Just to signal to the other Americans - who may or may not be for the freedoms these targeted Americans want to enjoy - are aware how this actually works instead of them thinking they're just a bunch of loons shootin their guns to kill innocent government officials or whatever.
To be honest, if i were in the US, what i would do is GTFO. I don't think i am cut out for civil war, and i'd much rather be in a place that is not rapidly going full fascist. Especially since i as a vaguely leftist person in education would probably at some point be on the target list, too.
On October 04 2025 18:20 Uldridge wrote: If there was ever a time to apply your second amendment and defend yourself for freedom, it sure seems to be now, with ICE and military overreach. And what I would personally do is start using banners everywhere that specify: we will use the second amendment. Just to signal to the other Americans - who may or may not be for the freedoms these targeted Americans want to enjoy - are aware how this actually works instead of them thinking they're just a bunch of loons shootin their guns to kill innocent government officials or whatever.
To be honest, if i were in the US, what i would do is GTFO. I don't think i am cut out for civil war, and i'd much rather be in a place that is not rapidly going full fascist. Especially since i as a vaguely leftist person in education would probably at some point be on the target list, too.
Fleeing years ahead of full-blown fascism is generally the recommendation. Not even pure-blooded white ethno-state worshipping Aryans are entirely safe anymore in the US considering the chaos that is currently unfolding. I refer to how quickly Eloln Musk went from ally to enemy of the head of state.
On October 04 2025 18:20 Uldridge wrote: If there was ever a time to apply your second amendment and defend yourself for freedom, it sure seems to be now, with ICE and military overreach. And what I would personally do is start using banners everywhere that specify: we will use the second amendment. Just to signal to the other Americans - who may or may not be for the freedoms these targeted Americans want to enjoy - are aware how this actually works instead of them thinking they're just a bunch of loons shootin their guns to kill innocent government officials or whatever.
To be honest, if i were in the US, what i would do is GTFO. I don't think i am cut out for civil war, and i'd much rather be in a place that is not rapidly going full fascist. Especially since i as a vaguely leftist person in education would probably at some point be on the target list, too.
Sure, but not everyone has that option. Many Americans are dirt poor.
On October 04 2025 18:20 Uldridge wrote: If there was ever a time to apply your second amendment and defend yourself for freedom, it sure seems to be now, with ICE and military overreach. And what I would personally do is start using banners everywhere that specify: we will use the second amendment. Just to signal to the other Americans - who may or may not be for the freedoms these targeted Americans want to enjoy - are aware how this actually works instead of them thinking they're just a bunch of loons shootin their guns to kill innocent government officials or whatever.
To be honest, if i were in the US, what i would do is GTFO. I don't think i am cut out for civil war, and i'd much rather be in a place that is not rapidly going full fascist. Especially since i as a vaguely leftist person in education would probably at some point be on the target list, too.
Can't recommend hard enough getting out of any place embracing the hard right. I mean, look at Argentina, that's seriously messed up -- education is getting defunded at breakneck pace with academics being told stuff like "if your research was important enough, a company would fund it" you couldn't be more short sighted if you tried.
A problem is that this is at least partially a worldwide phenomenon. The far right is on the rise basically everywhere, and of course the american fascist tech billionaires try to propagandize their views everywhere within their reach, which is everywhere.
Most countries are not as far along the downward spiral as the US, but it is not unlikely that we all end up there in 10 years. I very much hope we don't.
On October 04 2025 20:48 Simberto wrote: A problem is that this is at least partially a worldwide phenomenon. The far right is on the rise basically everywhere, and of course the american fascist tech billionaires try to propagandize their views everywhere within their reach, which is everywhere.
Most countries are not as far along the downward spiral as the US, but it is not unlikely that we all end up there in 10 years. I very much hope we don't.
To reverse it the US most likely would have to change their first amendment. As long as social media and TV can straight up lie and push propaganda there isn't much hope of changing the trend.
EPT
, nor argument there! I don't think our reach is long, but it's also not zero. Do we have statistics on how many hits the thread gets?
