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On September 29 2025 21:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2025 21:00 EnDeR_ wrote:On September 29 2025 18:33 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 29 2025 16:41 NovaTheFeared wrote:On September 29 2025 10:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 29 2025 06:30 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On September 29 2025 04:52 KwarK wrote:
I feel like maybe using the army on political enemies is some kind of political violence. The army are the ones with the bang sticks and the metal box cars, right? Isn’t violence their specialty? And isn’t the Portland thing political?
This is the kind of thing I meant when I was saying that conservatives excuse their political violence because they sheath it in the state. But the state doesn’t make the violence legitimate, the violence makes the state illegitimate. There is an absolute shitload of conservative right wing violence in the US and there always has been. Firstly, this is ill defined and vague. Secondly, you can easily shuffle around definitions and label almost anything political violence. Here is a simple example about an ongoing legal back and forth between the state and the gay communities in Canada and the USA. Specifically , the battle over whether or not poppers should be legal. The state's actions can easily be framed as "political violence". When A Sex Shop that sells poppers is closed down and the owner arrested in Toronto's gay village that can be framed as "political violence" by the state against innocent gay men. Poppers are illegal in Canada and the USA. According to gay men the law about poppers and its enforcement are political violence. In their view poppers should be legal. Any time the state shuts down a poppers manufacturing centre ... that is political violence according to gay rights activists. I don't think a sex shop getting shut down and the owner arrested is an example of political violence. I can see why some people frame it that way though. So you're making a vague statement about an ill defined activity, namely, political violence. Political violence is not poorly defined, and the right absolutely commits more political violence (and more severe political violence too): "But policymakers and the public need reliable evidence and actual data to understand the reality of politically motivated violence. From our research on extremism, it’s clear that the president’s and Miller’s assertions about political violence from the left are not based on actual facts. Based on our own research and a review of related work, we can confidently say that most domestic terrorists in the U.S. are politically on the right, and right-wing attacks account for the vast majority of fatalities from domestic terrorism." https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/right-wing-extremist-violence-is-more-frequent-and-deadly-than-left-wing-violence-data-shows That is not true this year. https://www.axios.com/2025/09/28/left-wing-terrorism-far-right-violence-research Sure, that's the only counterexample, and that's also half of one year vs. each/all of the previous 30 full years. That article/graph shows a humongous disparity between just how much more political violence occurs on the right than on the left. Some of that article is hidden behind a paywall for me, but based on the graph, it appears that approximately 90% of political violence is caused by the right. It's not even remotely close. Considering they've already changed the framework of what constitutes leftwing violence, those bars are going to change colour once they retroactively reclassify all of it as radical left terrorist violence. Yeah probably. Maybe they'll gatekeep/redefine just how much to the right the true right really is, so that all prior right-wing violence was really caused by people who only pretended to be on the right, or by people who weren't conservative/MAGA enough by Trump's standards/revisionism. No True Scotsman, and all that fallacious nonsense. For those of us wanting to still work with real facts though, it seems we can even strengthen our language about how disproportionate right-wing political violence is, compared to left-wing political violence. Previously, I had merely said things like the right commits more violence, unsure of exactly how much more (60-40? 70-30?) and not wanting to exaggerate. But now that there are reputable sources showing that it's really as much as a 90-10 split over the past 30 years, which is even more extreme than I had originally thought, we can safely say that almost all political violence is caused by the right. Not just "more". Not just "disproportionately right-wing". But indeed " almost all political violence is caused by the right".
I mean Hitler was a Nationalist Socialist so there you go. Literally all political violence is left-wing.
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On September 29 2025 22:50 Doublemint wrote:a nice effort certainly. but simply doomed to fall short to the complexity of reality. I love the support for environmental causes/animal rights stuff. as if they never met anyone else but big agrobusiness farmers and Kristi Noem types shooting their pets. according to the definition of the CSIS study from the axios link: Show nested quote +This brief defines left-wing terrorism as that which is motivated by an opposition to capitalism, imperialism, or colonialism; black nationalism; support for LGBTQ+ rights; support for environmental causes or animal rights; adherence to pro-communist, pro-socialist beliefs or “anti-fascist” rhetoric; opposition to government authority under the belief it is a tool of oppression responsible for social injustices; support for decentralized political and social systems, such as anarchism; or partisan extremism, where violence is justified against political opponents and parties perceived as advancing right-wing agendas.
Right-wing terrorism as used in this analysis includes incidents motivated by ideas of racial or ethnic supremacy; opposition to government authority, believing it is tyrannical and illegitimate; misogyny, including incels; hatred based on sexuality or gender identity; belief in the QAnon conspiracy theory; opposition to abortion; or partisan extremism, where violence is justified against political opponents and parties perceived as advancing left-wing agendas. both broadly would fit the "Jan06/MAGA mantle" easily. maybe ANTIFA really stormed for Trump... and didn't they qualify ALL attacks on ICE agents as "Terrorism", after they broke up families to send people to god knows where without distinguishing their legal status properly and people rightfully were pissed off and agitated about it? this not only inflates the qualifier "Terrorism" greatly. it tries to put one injustice on top of another to put a lid on things. and makes for the perfect material to show nice graphs about massive increases in "Left Wing Terror". voilà, here we are I am afraid
Here's an example of this left-wing terrorism. Thankfully, a brave brownshirt ICE agent was there to stop it.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OaWrizOfxNI
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On September 29 2025 09:19 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 07:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 04:48 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 03:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Donald Trump just invented a civil war in Portland and is now invading Oregon: Trump authorizes troops for Portland, escalating use of military inside U.S.
The president authorized the use of “Full force, if necessary,” in a campaign to use the military against Americans that has little modern precedent. ... Trump said in a social media post that he was directing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to provide troops to what he dubbed “War ravaged Portland” as well as “any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/09/27/trump-military-portland-ice/ So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Probably nothing. But who knows. Guess we’ll see. There will be plenty of protestors to join if you decide to make the trip down from Seattle Should there be protests? What kind should there be? Should elected Democrats be promoting them, opposing them, neither? What goals/demands should they have? What would success look like? How could people be working toward that success? Anyone/everyone is free to opine Schumer is leading Democrats letting them know the plan is to join him in hoping Republicans sign magically effective legislation to stop it. + Show Spoiler +
For those still holding out hope on the Epstein files, Democrats want you to follow their lead of hoping Republicans will magically do the right thing.
Is Democrat leadership strategy/plan of simply hoping Republicans do the right thing sensible? Is that leadership people should follow?
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United States43267 Posts
Maybe if you’d put more effort into getting people to turn out and vote for Democrats they wouldn’t have to rely on Republicans. But sure, be pissed that the minority party doesn’t wield power the way you imagine.
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On September 30 2025 00:20 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2025 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 29 2025 09:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 07:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 04:48 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 03:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Donald Trump just invented a civil war in Portland and is now invading Oregon: Trump authorizes troops for Portland, escalating use of military inside U.S.
The president authorized the use of “Full force, if necessary,” in a campaign to use the military against Americans that has little modern precedent. ... Trump said in a social media post that he was directing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to provide troops to what he dubbed “War ravaged Portland” as well as “any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/09/27/trump-military-portland-ice/ So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Probably nothing. But who knows. Guess we’ll see. There will be plenty of protestors to join if you decide to make the trip down from Seattle Should there be protests? What kind should there be? Should elected Democrats be promoting them, opposing them, neither? What goals/demands should they have? What would success look like? How could people be working toward that success? Anyone/everyone is free to opine Schumer is leading Democrats letting them know the plan is to join him in hoping Republicans sign magically effective legislation to stop it. + Show Spoiler + For those still holding out hope on the Epstein files, Democrats want you to follow their lead of hoping Republicans will magically do the right thing. https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1972499808180211742Is Democrat leadership strategy/plan of simply hoping Republicans do the right thing sensible? Is that leadership people should follow? Maybe if you’d put more effort into getting people to turn out and vote for Democrats they wouldn’t have to rely on Republicans. But sure, be pissed that the minority party doesn’t wield power the way you imagine.
I did that for over a decade, Democrats got worse and failed miserably when they had the House Senate and Presidency using it to culminate in their biggest accomplishment in our lifetimes... Passing Republican healthcare that's to the right of Richard Nixon.
I looked past that, tried again, they shit all over that insisting on empowering Trump instead.
Republicans are a problem, Democrats are definitively not a viable solution.
EDIT: Maybe if we all work really hard for the next decade to get Democrats elected they'll be able to pass something to the right of Trump's immigration plan when they finally get power...
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On September 30 2025 00:20 KwarK wrote:
Maybe if you’d put more effort into getting people to turn out and vote for Democrats they wouldn’t have to rely on Republicans. But sure, be pissed that the minority party doesn’t wield power the way you imagine.
Do you ever wonder if there were people being marched into Nazi concentration camps and thinking "well this isn't so bad, at least the SPD didn't win the last election"?
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On September 30 2025 00:42 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2025 00:20 KwarK wrote:On September 30 2025 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 29 2025 09:19 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 07:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 04:48 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 03:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Donald Trump just invented a civil war in Portland and is now invading Oregon: Trump authorizes troops for Portland, escalating use of military inside U.S.
The president authorized the use of “Full force, if necessary,” in a campaign to use the military against Americans that has little modern precedent. ... Trump said in a social media post that he was directing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to provide troops to what he dubbed “War ravaged Portland” as well as “any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/09/27/trump-military-portland-ice/ So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Probably nothing. But who knows. Guess we’ll see. There will be plenty of protestors to join if you decide to make the trip down from Seattle Should there be protests? What kind should there be? Should elected Democrats be promoting them, opposing them, neither? What goals/demands should they have? What would success look like? How could people be working toward that success? Anyone/everyone is free to opine Schumer is leading Democrats letting them know the plan is to join him in hoping Republicans sign magically effective legislation to stop it. + Show Spoiler + For those still holding out hope on the Epstein files, Democrats want you to follow their lead of hoping Republicans will magically do the right thing. https://twitter.com/kenklippenstein/status/1972499808180211742Is Democrat leadership strategy/plan of simply hoping Republicans do the right thing sensible? Is that leadership people should follow? Maybe if you’d put more effort into getting people to turn out and vote for Democrats they wouldn’t have to rely on Republicans. But sure, be pissed that the minority party doesn’t wield power the way you imagine. Do you ever wonder if there were people being marched into Nazi concentration camps and thinking "well this isn't so bad, at least the SPD didn't win the last election"?
You ever wonder if there were Nazis lib/dem/ilk Germans that watched people get marched into concentration camps, pointed, and smugly said among themselves "They should have worked harder to elect SPD"?
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You cant argue with GH. The goal posts will move and he wont change his mind.
Hes doing the right wingers a favor by attacking democrats and seemingly rarely if ever attacking republicans.
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On September 30 2025 00:53 Sadist wrote:
You cant argue with GH. The goal posts will move and he wont change his mind.
Hes doing the right wingers a favor by attacking democrats and seemingly rarely if ever attacking republicans.
That they're not a right-winger themself is a bold assumption. If you spend all day shitting on Democrats and repeating Republican talking points, you're practically indistinguishable from a Republican.
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On September 30 2025 00:55 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2025 00:53 Sadist wrote:
You cant argue with GH. The goal posts will move and he wont change his mind.
Hes doing the right wingers a favor by attacking democrats and seemingly rarely if ever attacking republicans. That they're not a right-winger themself is a bold assumption. If you spend all day shitting on Democrats and repeating Republican talking points, you're practically indistinguishable from a Republican.
Hes been here for years i dont think hes a right winger but hes being an assett for them.
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First get your own house in order before criticizing someone else's is like one of the oldest proverb that's known more or less by every culture surely should hold some kind of wisdom, no?
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On September 30 2025 00:53 Sadist wrote:
You cant argue with GH. The goal posts will move and he wont change his mind.
Hes doing the right wingers a favor by attacking democrats and seemingly rarely if ever attacking republicans.
It's funny because before I changed my mind (and became a socialist) I was a Democrat that got scolded here for attacking Republicans too much in the era of compromise/bipartisanship.
Republicans are engaged in a genocidal attempt to enshrine a fascist/authoritarian/Technofeudalist future. Democrats have been helping them lay the foundations our entire lives.
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"Republicans are engaged in a genocidal attempt to enshrine a fascist/authoritarian/Technofeudalist future. That's why I 100% agree with them that Kamala Harris failed upwards because of DEI."
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GH's stated goal is to instigate a violent revolution. Weakening the Democrats is the shortest path towards that goal so he isn't being inconsistent in that sense.
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On September 29 2025 17:39 Jankisa wrote:Well, we did post recently about what, according to the new standards constitutes as Terrorism, it includes: - anti-Americanism, - anti-capitalism, - anti-Christianity,- support for the overthrow of the United States Government, - extremism on migration, - extremism on race, - extremism on gender - hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on family, - hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on religion, and - hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on morality. I can absolutely tell you, with 100 % certainty that this is going to be "worse year in history" for Left wing terrorism, because anyone who does anything fucked up and has at any point wrote or said anything, ranging from "I think Trump is a poopoo head" (anti-American), I think trans people deserve human rights (gender), I think gay people should be able to get married (traditional American views on family) will be categorized as a left wing terrorist. On the other hand, the clear Trump supporter who just shoot up and burned down a church will also neatly be placed in one of these (anti-Christianity) despite him being an obvious right winger who lost his mind and more then likely went there just to cause as much death as he could, or had a grudge against someone etc. There was too much death this weekend in the US and I was too busy to pay attention to it all, so maybe the NY shooter was antifa or some shit, in any case, I'm sure they had one or two posts which could classify them as left, so there they'll go.
Karoline Leavitt said the shooter at the Michigan Church may have been MAGA, but he just hated Mormons.
So ... it was left-wing terrorism again?
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and GH is about as successful in his goal as Democrats stopping Republicans. from going down the authoritarian route, cementing their power, building the the infrastructure for current and future atrocities.
hearing Miller talk - that is not normal. that is crazy.
show it to people. no way everyone is that blind or de-sensitized to it.
you are on a kinda slow drive to the Burger Reich. led by lying, malicious psychos. enforced by the newly recruited gravy seals in ICE thanks to unlimited money despite record level deficits. helped by Big Tech firms getting their hands on anything that was not already out there for them to farm or data mine as they are now in everything government thanks to DOGE.
jaw dropping.
unite and get your shit together or perish to the idiotic violence. state sanctioned or otherwise.
what do people here think happens when ~17 million people and/or their parents get thrown off of their health-care plans?
or finally getting priced out? in a country swamped with guns? brainwashed in this or that direction by social media because FREEDOM?
ACA health insurance will cost the average person 75% more next year, research shows
17 Million Americans May Lose Health Coverage Under The One Big Beautiful Bill
not a peep from the administration. just dividing, inciting and finally outlawing their opposition they made up in their minds.
as usual, the American populace has more range and is more diverse in their outbursts of anger than the conniving, deceiving administration.
and often that call comes from inside the MAGA house.
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They scheduled the Medicaid defund to start in 2027, so they can point the fingers at Democrats after they retake the House in the previous year's midterms. But health care costs are already spiraling out of control, so even controlling so much of the media will make it hard for them to keep that illusion up.
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The Michigan shooter had a kid with the "goFundMe" insurance america is so proud of.
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On September 30 2025 03:28 KT_Elwood wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2025 17:39 Jankisa wrote:Well, we did post recently about what, according to the new standards constitutes as Terrorism, it includes: - anti-Americanism, - anti-capitalism, - anti-Christianity,- support for the overthrow of the United States Government, - extremism on migration, - extremism on race, - extremism on gender - hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on family, - hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on religion, and - hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on morality. I can absolutely tell you, with 100 % certainty that this is going to be "worse year in history" for Left wing terrorism, because anyone who does anything fucked up and has at any point wrote or said anything, ranging from "I think Trump is a poopoo head" (anti-American), I think trans people deserve human rights (gender), I think gay people should be able to get married (traditional American views on family) will be categorized as a left wing terrorist. On the other hand, the clear Trump supporter who just shoot up and burned down a church will also neatly be placed in one of these (anti-Christianity) despite him being an obvious right winger who lost his mind and more then likely went there just to cause as much death as he could, or had a grudge against someone etc. There was too much death this weekend in the US and I was too busy to pay attention to it all, so maybe the NY shooter was antifa or some shit, in any case, I'm sure they had one or two posts which could classify them as left, so there they'll go. Karoline Leavitt said the shooter at the Michigan Church may have been MAGA, but he just hated Mormons. So ... it was left-wing terrorism again?
Maybe he started hating Mormons to avenge Charlie Kirk, since that guy was a Mormon, so, in the end, its the Trans ideology all the way down...
It's also very fun how transparently Republicans do these "tricks" with their laws and it's even more fun how inept or intentionally complicit US media is in failing to call it out.
The "border invasion" was supposed to be addressed, there was a bi-partisan bill, Trump torpedoed it before even winning the primary, no one cared, everyone still blamed Democrats and pretended like Biden and the Democrats refused to do anything.
I do concede that Biden could have, he, in my opinion is, out of everyone else on the liberal side of the American political scene the most to blame for everything that is happening.
He could have done so much, but he sat on his hands, no one really knows why, there was no reason for him not to say fuck this, I'm not giving them all this ammunition, we'll close the border down and get those graphs that Republicans blasted to everyone all the way down.
He could have said, fuck it, I can see that Nethyanahu is happy to stall and fuck with me, all but publicly cheering for Trump to come back to power, refuses to give me any political wins vis a vi Gaza, I'm cutting the weapons off until a ceasefire is signed.
He refused to do president shit and he also refused to step down from the race to become the next president, it's fucking baffling and he can, honestly, go fuck himself for all of that.
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EPT
