EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 5286
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4901 Posts
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KwarK
United States43049 Posts
On September 30 2025 18:30 Razyda wrote: Think it is quite obvious. If Democrats see massive drop off in people willing to vote for them, they will have to recalibrate. If they dont another party will show up to fill the void. (a bit like reform rise in UK) Edit some grammar They did this. The US voting population is very right wing and so the party moved right. It just made GH angrier. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21845 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States1831 Posts
The problem is there's no way for Democrats to capitalize on this in the long term. They win big every time Republicans crater the economy, because the right-wing domination of almost all the news media (and now social media) still can't gaslight what number people see on their credit card bills, but that doesn't stop people for falling for the lies of trickle-down economics yet again after Democrats are back in power for more than ten minutes. Literally what are Democrats supposed to say or do to persuade people that yet another tax cut for billionaires won't make rent affordable? All the studies, charts, advertisements, talk shows, viral memes, whatever you can imagine still hasn't stopped the American swing voter from voting for class warfare against themselves every time Democrats can be blamed for literally anything. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7366 Posts
On September 30 2025 09:29 Sermokala wrote: The democrat party isn't just an institution its the infrastructure and the people who vote for it because its the only credible lefitst infrastructure that can contend in elections that matter on a national level. Minnesota has the farmer-laborer party but it can only surive by being an affilate of the democrat party beacuse thats how elections work when no one else bothers to form a party that isn't one of the big 2. GH would rather the republicans win than see the democrats win, which just makes republicans win, his solution for making the democrats better is to make the democrats lose more, which just makes repubicans win. His solution to get support for his aims is to piss off and insult everyone he is trying to convince to his side, which just makes no sense if you're trying to do anything at all other than help republicans win. What does this have to do with the fact that punching down requires you to punch at something smaller, weaker, etc than yourself and that the Democrats in basically any form or conceptualization are bigger and more powerful than GH? Just like white dudes can’t really make jokes at the expense of black people, but black people can make jokes at the expense of white people. One is punching up, and one punching down. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23365 Posts
On September 30 2025 21:12 Ryzel wrote: + Show Spoiler + I mean, the issues are the same as they have been for years. 1) The Republican base isn’t THAT ideologically different from one another. You’ve got the far-right, obviously, and the “leftmost right” (the Introverts and what have you) don’t really have too much of a problem with what the far-right wants to do, as long as the status quo is maintained. Hell, anecdotally I even know some previously-Republican-now-Democrat-hate-Trumpers who like to post memes and complain about him, but when asked by myself/other friends if they’re concerned about the stuff being done by the administration, they roll their eyes while shaking their head and say “nah that’s just more Trump bullshit to control the news cycle, America’s dealt with wacky power grabbing Presidents before, Jackson etc., just gotta’ ride this out until he’s gone in 2028.” The majority of the public simply isn’t that bothered by Trump. Meanwhile, for the Democrat base, the “rightmost left” (people like the guy above, couple posters here, etc), that just want the status quo maintained while having a bit of a conscience, have serious ideological beef with people on the far-left. If a far-left candidate won a primary, you’d likely see serious defectors (although perhaps Mamdani in NY can serve as a valuable test case for how much this would happen). The voting base is all over the place, which leads to… 2) Democrats don’t have a brand. They used to be pro-middle class / pro-worker, then when politicians couldn’t be that anymore they turned pro-big money / pro-globalist / pro-status quo with some pro-minority stuff sprinkled in, but ever since Trump became a thing they’ve become Make America Great Again (Pre-Trump). MAGA with a D in front isn’t magically going to beat the original MAGA; everyone who’d be swayed with that branding is already MAGA, and no one’s going to believe them when all the establishment Dems are in corporate pockets. Personally, if I’m asked what I’m voting for when I vote Democrat, all I can think to say is “not Trump, friendly with the West, corps get bigger, and social justice for minorities.” Which, yeah, I like 3 of the 4, but only 2 of them are meaningful country policies, and it still isn’t addressing the death of the American worker / middle class. Trump is the only one paying lip service to it, which is why he’s able to swindle all of them; hard to ignore the shady snake oil salesman when he’s the only one even trying to sell medicine. So to tie it back to GH, I don’t have a problem at all with his rhetoric. He’s obviously not pro-Republican; I’ve never seen a post any support or praise of Trump and what he’s doing. He’s just trying to light a fire under y’all collective asses to engage meaningfully with your individual political beliefs, see how they track with what’s currently being represented by the Democratic Party, and normalize change. Because if you believe “wow, the way the world works right now sucks”, you can’t then argue “you can’t do that, that’s not the way the world works”, because the logical conclusion of meshing those two is “the world sucks and will keep on sucking until hopefully it stops sucking anymore on its own.” At that point you’re at best (if you have hope for it to stop sucking) ideologically similar to Nazi Germany citizens who “had to go along with all the bad stuff until hopefully things get better” (but instead internalized all the bad shit they had to do until it didn’t seem so bad anymore), OR at worst (if you’ve lost hope for it to stop sucking) ideologically similar to 647 / No Lives Matter nihilists who say “fuck this fucking sucky world that sucks and everyone in it, even me” (until their rage pushes them to shoot up a public place). Yeah, that's pretty much it. Big part of why they emotionally lash out against me and imagined arguments (rather than address my actual posts) is that they're already at the At that point you’re at best (if you have hope for it to stop sucking) ideologically similar to Nazi Germany citizens who “had to go along with all the bad stuff until hopefully things get better” (but instead internalized all the bad shit they had to do until it didn’t seem so bad anymore) point and it is irreconcilable with their worldview/self-image. This was captured pretty well in this exchange: On September 30 2025 00:48 GreenHorizons wrote: You ever wonder if there were | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1831 Posts
It was eye opening a few pages back when you were calling for an American equivalent to EuroMaidan, cited the Italian strike as inspiration, someone who was actually there said "yeah this is just like the 50501 protests" and you recoiled in disgust because that's a lib/dem/ilk-organized protest. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23365 Posts
On September 30 2025 23:36 LightSpectra wrote: You're so proud of that attempted dunk on me that you're linking back to it, without ever checking that there were in fact quite a lot of documented cases of Germans verbally regretting not voting for the SPD to keep the Nazis out of power. It was eye opening a few pages back when you were calling for an American equivalent to EuroMaidan, cited the Italian strike as inspiration, someone who was actually there said "yeah this is just like the 50501 protests" and you recoiled in disgust because that's a lib/dem/ilk-organized protest. You like to not quote me and then make stuff up. That's not conducive to a reasonable discussion. | ||
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KwarK
United States43049 Posts
On September 30 2025 23:42 GreenHorizons wrote: You like to not quote me and then make stuff up. That's not conducive to a reasonable discussion. Fucking lol | ||
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Legan
Finland466 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23365 Posts
I know you have some specific examples in mind, go ahead and link them. People will notice (maybe you will too) that I don't do that to you. I spoil for specificity and (frequently) link to the post in its entirety. Also/alternatively, you're a bit of a history buff, you familiar with some citations for Light's assertion that: there were in fact quite a lot of documented cases of Germans verbally regretting not voting for the SPD to keep the Nazis out of power ? | ||
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KwarK
United States43049 Posts
On October 01 2025 00:03 GreenHorizons wrote: I know you have some specific examples in mind, go ahead and link them. Well there's that time that I argued that the workers hate you and your revolution and would beat you with sticks if it came to that and you spent three years insisting that I was a brownshirt who was planning to attack you. Or there's the time that I argued that if we charted US President awfulness with awfulness on the Y and time on the X then the trendline would show awfulness declining over time, even with Trump on there. Not because I liked Trump, I was very clear on that issue, but because the level of historical awfulness is just so high. You spent years insisting that I celebrated the result of the 2016 election because of that. Basically you can go fuck yourself. Now and forever. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23365 Posts
On October 01 2025 00:15 KwarK wrote: Cool links. Any luck on those citations for + Show Spoiler + Well there's that time that I argued that the workers hate you and your revolution and would beat you with sticks if it came to that and you spent three years insisting that I was a brownshirt who was planning to attack you. Or there's the time that I argued that if we charted US President awfulness with awfulness on the Y and time on the X then the trendline would show awfulness declining over time, even with Trump on there. Not because I liked Trump, I was very clear on that issue, but because the level of historical awfulness is just so high. You spent years insisting that I celebrated the result of the 2016 election because of that. Basically you can go fuck yourself. Now and forever. quite a lot of documented cases of Germans verbally regretting not voting for the SPD to keep the Nazis out of power ?Anyone familiar with those citations? | ||
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Sermokala
United States14015 Posts
On September 30 2025 23:22 Zambrah wrote: What does this have to do with the fact that punching down requires you to punch at something smaller, weaker, etc than yourself and that the Democrats in basically any form or conceptualization are bigger and more powerful than GH? Just like white dudes can’t really make jokes at the expense of black people, but black people can make jokes at the expense of white people. One is punching up, and one punching down. Beacuse hes punching down from his moral high ground. He doesn't have to compromise his ideals nor risk them being proved wrong in any consequence. No one disagrees with what GH wants he just refuses to get past that stage and onto the "well how does that actually work and how do we actually get there" stage that requires compromise and risk. He just wants to mock and gawk at democrats to get over the fact that no one is willing to blindly follow him and ignore the very basic issues that people deal with that can be helped on a day to day basis. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States1831 Posts
On October 01 2025 00:24 GreenHorizons wrote: Cool links. Any luck on those citations for ? Anyone familiar with those citations? I'm not going to go trudging through archives to win an Internet argument, but one of the main examples I was thinking of was Friedrich Kellner's diary. If you've ever heard the "Who carries the blame? The people without a brain! To trample democracy with one’s feet and give power to a single man..." quote, it's from that. He was an activist for the SPD. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14015 Posts
On October 01 2025 00:24 GreenHorizons wrote: Cool links. Any luck on those citations for ? Anyone familiar with those citations? A good question to ask is what citations would satisfy you in this? Its a very broad request that can be accurately answered in a lot of ways but people don't have any goodwill stored for people to do labor for you without hope of it being valued in any way. Like do you need me to find some German after the war to say that "gee the holocaust was bad and ww2 was pretty bad for us?" because that would be pretty easy. Are you asking for people during the nazi regime who were able to speak out against hitler who were able to articulate the stance that "gee maybe the communists focusing on the only party that could keep the nazis out of power was a bad thing to support?" beacuse those people were silenced and killed. The nation was ocupied after the war by the two major blocks that would of course encourage people to say the nazis were a bad idea, during the war they would have been killed for saying the nazis were bad. What exactly do you think you are asking for? | ||
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Zambrah
United States7366 Posts
On October 01 2025 01:47 Sermokala wrote: Beacuse hes punching down from his moral high ground. He doesn't have to compromise his ideals nor risk them being proved wrong in any consequence. No one disagrees with what GH wants he just refuses to get past that stage and onto the "well how does that actually work and how do we actually get there" stage that requires compromise and risk. He just wants to mock and gawk at democrats to get over the fact that no one is willing to blindly follow him and ignore the very basic issues that people deal with that can be helped on a day to day basis. You people are literally no better, lmao. No solutions, just "everyone vote and pray it works out I guess." Not a single person in this thread is worth two shits to any political movement, not a single person in this thread has a plan to prevent more power going to fascists, because, and I think you all forget this, we are a collection of random people on the fucking internet. You all just dont like criticism of the Democrats because its frustrating that theyre so fucking worthless and that theyre all we have for established political leadership. Moral high grounds have no institutional power in the US btw, they have almost no real power anywhere (other than freaks on the internet), GH is not punching down on Democrats and noone in this thread is capable of punching down on Democrats. By your insane logic here you all punch down on the Republicans and Trump all the time and thats obviously nonsensical. | ||
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Sadist
United States7284 Posts
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Jankisa
Croatia812 Posts
What the fuck even was that, jesus christ, the incredibly cringe *looks at the camera and says "to our enemies, FAFO"* moment, I mean how fucking stupid Americans are that they think this is cool or that this is someone who should be in charge of the most powerful army the world has ever seen? I'm beginning to be fully on board with KwarK's theory that Americans are just, overall completely shifted to the right and irredeemable, even if GH's fantasy of AmeriMaidan happened, there would be plenty of Hegseth's who would be lining up to aim the hellfire missiles at crowds and press the button and Trump's approval rating would barely budge. Grim shit. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4901 Posts
On October 01 2025 02:32 Sadist wrote: Can we substitute kicking them when their down for punching down and move on? This is a dumb discussion. But those poor Democrats. They're down on their luck and you're rubbing it in!? That's just evil, man. | ||
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