|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
Yikes. Added to his long list of other scams (e.g., Trump University).
|
On September 28 2025 09:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 03:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Donald Trump just invented a civil war in Portland and is now invading Oregon: Trump authorizes troops for Portland, escalating use of military inside U.S.
The president authorized the use of “Full force, if necessary,” in a campaign to use the military against Americans that has little modern precedent. ... Trump said in a social media post that he was directing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to provide troops to what he dubbed “War ravaged Portland” as well as “any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/09/27/trump-military-portland-ice/ So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Magically effective socialist revolution, because if it's not that, then it's nothing but mocking and gawking.
Not magic, science 
+ Show Spoiler +Scientific socialism is a method for understanding and predicting social, economic and material phenomena by examining their historical trends through the use of the scientific method in order to derive probable outcomes and probable future developments. It is in contrast to what later socialists referred to as utopian socialism—a method based on establishing seemingly rational propositions for organizing society and convincing others of their rationality and/or desirability. It also contrasts with classical liberal notions of natural law, which are grounded in metaphysical notions of morality rather than a dynamic materialist or physicalist conception of the world
While every post there was pointing to/surrounded by another instance of mocking and gawking that's nowhere near a comprehensive list of how frequently you all do it (you're doing it now, again).
Rather than lash out emotionally and slap together a straw man you could have just went with discussing the discussion questions I mentioned (with others if you all want to mean girl me).
On September 28 2025 07:34 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 04:48 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 03:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Donald Trump just invented a civil war in Portland and is now invading Oregon: Trump authorizes troops for Portland, escalating use of military inside U.S.
The president authorized the use of “Full force, if necessary,” in a campaign to use the military against Americans that has little modern precedent. ... Trump said in a social media post that he was directing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to provide troops to what he dubbed “War ravaged Portland” as well as “any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/09/27/trump-military-portland-ice/ So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Probably nothing. But who knows. Guess we’ll see. There will be plenty of protestors to join if you decide to make the trip down from Seattle Should there be protests? What kind should there be? Should elected Democrats be promoting them, opposing them, neither? What goals/demands should they have? What would success look like? How could people be working toward that success? Anyone/everyone is free to opine
Those questions were in the context of Trump talking about sending troops to Portland, but I think they're worth discussing about any/many of his actions thus far and pending (scamming and corruption are just a couple). Far more worth discussing than the incessant mocking and gocking and/or anything bad faith right-wingers are going to gaslight/distract you all with next.
|
On September 28 2025 19:57 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2025 19:12 Jankisa wrote:Chilling stuff, especially the reality free quote from the end: Show nested quote +“The real problem is this: since Charlie [Kirk] was murdered — a friend of mine, assassinated — nothing’s changed on their side,” White House counter-terrorism czar Sebastian Gorka told Newsmax after NSPM-7 was signed. “Not one leader —not one left wing thought leader, member of Congress, Senator — nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric.” It doesn't matter to them who reacted how, even if every person left of center in the world put Charlie Kirk rest in peace as their profile picture, including every senator and congress person, they would have still done this and still said this. I'm sure that this, however, is because of Obama, or so would our resident fascist boot lickers tell us, if they didn't completely ignore things like this and pretend they aren't happening. To make sure everybody, even the people in the far back, can understand what's going on right now. Sebastian Gorka may not be a familiar name, but he's a very important person in counter-terrorism. Very high up. He has previously served under Trump's first administration and is now serving a second time. He just used a false pretext (lying about zero Democrat leader condemnation of Kirk's assassination) to accuse all Democrat leaders of supporting political violence against prominent right-wing figures. It's very clear he's lying. He KNOWS his accusation is false. Here's proof: "This is not acceptable and well have to condemn it. We have to stop it," Sen. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a longtime Trump foe, said in a Sept. 10 post on X. "This is sickening." "Political violence is NEVER acceptable," House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said in an Sept. 10 post on X. "My thoughts and prayers are with Charlie Kirk and his family." Rep. Maxwell Frost, the first member of Gen Z elected to Congress, said the shooting was "nothing short of horrific" and condemned the violence. The Florida Democrat said in a Sept. 10 Facebook post reacting to the shooting that "every single person deserves to be safe from gun violence no matter" their political beliefs. "Debates get passionate. People have strong feelings. That's part of the democratic process. But the notion that people think because they disagree with someone, violence is an acceptable response to it, is one we have to stamp out in this country," Democratic Rep. Adam Smith of Washington said. "We should all feel a deep sense of grief and outrage at the terrible violence that took place in Utah today," Newsom wrote on X.
"Charlie Kirk's murder is sick and reprehensible, and our thoughts are with his family, children, and loved ones," he added. "I knew Charlie, and I admired his passion and commitment to debate." As well as Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and plenty more. There was a lot of condemnation of the assassination. Gorka is full of shit, very fitting for the entire Trump administration. You didn't pay close enough attention to what Gorka said. Either you didn't see/internalize the word rhetoric, or you did and think assassinations are a form of rhetoric. He said "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric." (This by itself is probably hyperbole as I'm sure the number isn't 0.) He did not say "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violence." You disproved a ghost. Your counterexamples are for something other than what he said. What you'd want is statements like Fetterman's.Gorka goes on to say "[Nobody has said]...We jettison the voices such as Maxine Waters or Joe Biden who talked about using violence against their political opponents. We totally excoriate them and we remove them from our political environment. They haven't done anything, and Charlie's dead, and Erika's a widow, and those children will grow up without a father. The left refuses to rid themselves of the justification for violence, and as such President Trump is taking measures to protect us from the violent rhetoric that becomes snipers and bullets." He's making a similar point I made which was if you give a token "oops killing is bad" after every act of violence, it gives you plausibility deniability even if you immediately go back to the same old routine of riling up millions (at most) for stochastic terrorism.
Oh no, they didn't say the very specific sentence that Gorka invented so he can make them look bad with his stupid accusation.
Yeah right, then why did he omit the fact that Democrat leaders did condemn the violence? Why did he leave that part out? Why did he also omit that Trump himself overtly promotes hate against his enemies? Eh?
He's clearly arguing in bad faith and you're playing defense for him. Nice job, really nice job. Keep defending the fascists.
|
On September 28 2025 20:55 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 09:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 03:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Donald Trump just invented a civil war in Portland and is now invading Oregon: Trump authorizes troops for Portland, escalating use of military inside U.S.
The president authorized the use of “Full force, if necessary,” in a campaign to use the military against Americans that has little modern precedent. ... Trump said in a social media post that he was directing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to provide troops to what he dubbed “War ravaged Portland” as well as “any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/09/27/trump-military-portland-ice/ So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Magically effective socialist revolution, because if it's not that, then it's nothing but mocking and gawking. Not magic, science + Show Spoiler +Scientific socialism is a method for understanding and predicting social, economic and material phenomena by examining their historical trends through the use of the scientific method in order to derive probable outcomes and probable future developments. It is in contrast to what later socialists referred to as utopian socialism—a method based on establishing seemingly rational propositions for organizing society and convincing others of their rationality and/or desirability. It also contrasts with classical liberal notions of natural law, which are grounded in metaphysical notions of morality rather than a dynamic materialist or physicalist conception of the world
When I said that the socialist revolution would need to be magically effective, I didn't mean that socialism couldn't be effective or scientifically justified. I meant that it would be unrealistic for socialism to gain sufficient support in the United States, where it becomes our country's new economic and political philosophy; Americans are unwilling to reject our current forms of capitalism, corporatism, and oligarchy.
|
On September 28 2025 21:23 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 20:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 09:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 03:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Donald Trump just invented a civil war in Portland and is now invading Oregon: Trump authorizes troops for Portland, escalating use of military inside U.S.
The president authorized the use of “Full force, if necessary,” in a campaign to use the military against Americans that has little modern precedent. ... Trump said in a social media post that he was directing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to provide troops to what he dubbed “War ravaged Portland” as well as “any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/09/27/trump-military-portland-ice/ So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Magically effective socialist revolution, because if it's not that, then it's nothing but mocking and gawking. Not magic, science
+ Show Spoiler +Scientific socialism is a method for understanding and predicting social, economic and material phenomena by examining their historical trends through the use of the scientific method in order to derive probable outcomes and probable future developments. It is in contrast to what later socialists referred to as utopian socialism—a method based on establishing seemingly rational propositions for organizing society and convincing others of their rationality and/or desirability. It also contrasts with classical liberal notions of natural law, which are grounded in metaphysical notions of morality rather than a dynamic materialist or physicalist conception of the world While every post there was pointing to/surrounded by another instance of mocking and gawking that's nowhere near a comprehensive list of how frequently you all do it (you're doing it now, again). Rather than lash out emotionally and slap together a straw man you could have just went with discussing the discussion questions I mentioned (with others if you all want to mean girl me). On September 28 2025 07:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 04:48 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 03:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Donald Trump just invented a civil war in Portland and is now invading Oregon: Trump authorizes troops for Portland, escalating use of military inside U.S.
The president authorized the use of “Full force, if necessary,” in a campaign to use the military against Americans that has little modern precedent. ... Trump said in a social media post that he was directing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to provide troops to what he dubbed “War ravaged Portland” as well as “any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/09/27/trump-military-portland-ice/ So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Probably nothing. But who knows. Guess we’ll see. There will be plenty of protestors to join if you decide to make the trip down from Seattle Should there be protests? What kind should there be? Should elected Democrats be promoting them, opposing them, neither? What goals/demands should they have? What would success look like? How could people be working toward that success? Anyone/everyone is free to opine When I said that the socialist revolution would need to be magically effective, I didn't mean that socialism couldn't be effective or scientifically justified. I meant that it would be unrealistic for socialism to gain sufficient support in the United States, where it becomes our country's new economic and political philosophy; Americans are unwilling to reject our current forms of capitalism, corporatism, and oligarchy.
It was pretty unrealistic for someone like Trump to win after his birtherism, even more unrealistic after his failed insurrection, but here we are. Turns out trying can change what is realistic.
Nazis were pretty unwilling to reject their Führer's plans, they got convinced (more or less).
But sure, you don't think socialism should guide the path out of this mess, that's your prerogative. Talk about your alternative (and/or address the discussion questions from your perspective) then. If it's just "vote blue no matter who if/when Trump lets you" that's fine, but not immune to critique.
EDIT: Maidan wasn't a magically effective socialist revolution either btw.
|
So apparently in 2024 Trump's administration heavily focused their ad campaign on anti-trans issues. How heavily? About one third of their total TV ads budget. Yes indeed, one third. $21 million out of $66 million. That's for an issue that concerns 1% of the population or less. Despite economy and immigration being the top two concerns of Trump voters.
So Trump's campaign thought making anti-trans issues one of the biggest concerns in their ads was a winning strategy. And it's hard to argue with that, apparently it was a winning strategy.
So I'm left to wonder, is it possible that Trump has been appealing to the far-right to win another election? Is it possible? Did the far-right make him win? Is Trump a fascist? No? Definitely not? Twenty-one MILLION dollars says otherwise.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-anti-trans-ads-spending/
https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-spends-millions-anti-trans-ads-despite-polls/story?id=115001816
|
On September 28 2025 22:14 Magic Powers wrote:So apparently in 2024 Trump's administration heavily focused their ad campaign on anti-trans issues. How heavily? About one third of their total TV ads budget. Yes indeed, one third. $21 million out of $66 million. That's for an issue that concerns 1% of the population or less. Despite economy and immigration being the top two concerns of Trump voters. So Trump's campaign thought making anti-trans issues one of the biggest concerns in their ads was a winning strategy. And it's hard to argue with that, apparently it was a winning strategy. So I'm left to wonder, is it possible that Trump has been appealing to the far-right to win another election? Is it possible? Did the far-right make him win? Is Trump a fascist? No? Definitely not? Twenty-one MILLION dollars says otherwise. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-anti-trans-ads-spending/https://abcnews.go.com/US/trump-spends-millions-anti-trans-ads-despite-polls/story?id=115001816
https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/jul/13/how-many-trans-people-are-there-in-the-us-and-why/
Trans people are about 1% of Americans but people surveyed estimated they were about 21%. Same is true of Muslim people: 1% of Americans, but people think it's 27%.
Hate media is rotting peoples' brains in real time and it's frustrating that there's nothing we can do to stop it.
|
|
|
On September 28 2025 20:55 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 09:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 03:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Donald Trump just invented a civil war in Portland and is now invading Oregon: Trump authorizes troops for Portland, escalating use of military inside U.S.
The president authorized the use of “Full force, if necessary,” in a campaign to use the military against Americans that has little modern precedent. ... Trump said in a social media post that he was directing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to provide troops to what he dubbed “War ravaged Portland” as well as “any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/09/27/trump-military-portland-ice/ So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Magically effective socialist revolution, because if it's not that, then it's nothing but mocking and gawking. Not magic, science + Show Spoiler +Scientific socialism is a method for understanding and predicting social, economic and material phenomena by examining their historical trends through the use of the scientific method in order to derive probable outcomes and probable future developments. It is in contrast to what later socialists referred to as utopian socialism—a method based on establishing seemingly rational propositions for organizing society and convincing others of their rationality and/or desirability. It also contrasts with classical liberal notions of natural law, which are grounded in metaphysical notions of morality rather than a dynamic materialist or physicalist conception of the world While every post there was pointing to/surrounded by another instance of mocking and gawking that's nowhere near a comprehensive list of how frequently you all do it (you're doing it now, again). Rather than lash out emotionally and slap together a straw man you could have just went with discussing the discussion questions I mentioned (with others if you all want to mean girl me). Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 07:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 04:48 Mohdoo wrote:On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 28 2025 03:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Donald Trump just invented a civil war in Portland and is now invading Oregon: Trump authorizes troops for Portland, escalating use of military inside U.S.
The president authorized the use of “Full force, if necessary,” in a campaign to use the military against Americans that has little modern precedent. ... Trump said in a social media post that he was directing Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth to provide troops to what he dubbed “War ravaged Portland” as well as “any of our ICE Facilities under siege from attack by Antifa, and other domestic terrorists.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/09/27/trump-military-portland-ice/ So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Probably nothing. But who knows. Guess we’ll see. There will be plenty of protestors to join if you decide to make the trip down from Seattle Should there be protests? What kind should there be? Should elected Democrats be promoting them, opposing them, neither? What goals/demands should they have? What would success look like? How could people be working toward that success? Anyone/everyone is free to opine Those questions were in the context of Trump talking about sending troops to Portland, but I think they're worth discussing about any/many of his actions thus far and pending (scamming and corruption are just a couple). Far more worth discussing than the incessant mocking and gocking and/or anything bad faith right-wingers are going to gaslight/distract you all with next.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but just because they called something "scientific" doesn't make it scientific.
|
I just read about this. I genuinely feel bad that his own voters are going to die believing snake oil works better than science. Same thing happened to the ones that died screaming because they boofed hydroxychloroquine instead of the COVID vaccine.
|
Canada11593 Posts
On September 28 2025 19:57 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2025 19:12 Jankisa wrote:Chilling stuff, especially the reality free quote from the end: Show nested quote +“The real problem is this: since Charlie [Kirk] was murdered — a friend of mine, assassinated — nothing’s changed on their side,” White House counter-terrorism czar Sebastian Gorka told Newsmax after NSPM-7 was signed. “Not one leader —not one left wing thought leader, member of Congress, Senator — nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric.” It doesn't matter to them who reacted how, even if every person left of center in the world put Charlie Kirk rest in peace as their profile picture, including every senator and congress person, they would have still done this and still said this. I'm sure that this, however, is because of Obama, or so would our resident fascist boot lickers tell us, if they didn't completely ignore things like this and pretend they aren't happening. To make sure everybody, even the people in the far back, can understand what's going on right now. Sebastian Gorka may not be a familiar name, but he's a very important person in counter-terrorism. Very high up. He has previously served under Trump's first administration and is now serving a second time. He just used a false pretext (lying about zero Democrat leader condemnation of Kirk's assassination) to accuse all Democrat leaders of supporting political violence against prominent right-wing figures. It's very clear he's lying. He KNOWS his accusation is false. Here's proof: "This is not acceptable and well have to condemn it. We have to stop it," Sen. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a longtime Trump foe, said in a Sept. 10 post on X. "This is sickening." "Political violence is NEVER acceptable," House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said in an Sept. 10 post on X. "My thoughts and prayers are with Charlie Kirk and his family." Rep. Maxwell Frost, the first member of Gen Z elected to Congress, said the shooting was "nothing short of horrific" and condemned the violence. The Florida Democrat said in a Sept. 10 Facebook post reacting to the shooting that "every single person deserves to be safe from gun violence no matter" their political beliefs. "Debates get passionate. People have strong feelings. That's part of the democratic process. But the notion that people think because they disagree with someone, violence is an acceptable response to it, is one we have to stamp out in this country," Democratic Rep. Adam Smith of Washington said. "We should all feel a deep sense of grief and outrage at the terrible violence that took place in Utah today," Newsom wrote on X.
"Charlie Kirk's murder is sick and reprehensible, and our thoughts are with his family, children, and loved ones," he added. "I knew Charlie, and I admired his passion and commitment to debate." As well as Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and plenty more. There was a lot of condemnation of the assassination. Gorka is full of shit, very fitting for the entire Trump administration. You didn't pay close enough attention to what Gorka said. Either you didn't see/internalize the word rhetoric, or you did and think assassinations are a form of rhetoric. He said "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric." (This by itself is probably hyperbole as I'm sure the number isn't 0.) He did not say "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violence." You disproved a ghost. Your counterexamples are for something other than what he said. What you'd want is statements like Fetterman's.Gorka goes on to say "[Nobody has said]...We jettison the voices such as Maxine Waters or Joe Biden who talked about using violence against their political opponents. We totally excoriate them and we remove them from our political environment. They haven't done anything, and Charlie's dead, and Erika's a widow, and those children will grow up without a father. The left refuses to rid themselves of the justification for violence, and as such President Trump is taking measures to protect us from the violent rhetoric that becomes snipers and bullets." He's making a similar point I made which was if you give a token "oops killing is bad" after every act of violence, it gives you plausibility deniability even if you immediately go back to the same old routine of riling up millions (at most) for stochastic terrorism.
Agreed. Biden really should be jettisoned from the party for that time he said, "Trump wants to abolish, essentially abolish the second amendment. By the way, if he gets to pick.... if he gets to pick his judges (shrugs). Nothing you can do, folks. Although the second amendment people- maybe there is, I don't know."
Sounds like encouraging the murder of his political rivals from Biden, or maybe a joke, I don't know. Or maybe it was said by the current President of the United States, but who keeps track of those things.
|
United States44242 Posts
On September 29 2025 02:46 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 19:57 oBlade wrote:On September 28 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2025 19:12 Jankisa wrote:Chilling stuff, especially the reality free quote from the end: Show nested quote +“The real problem is this: since Charlie [Kirk] was murdered — a friend of mine, assassinated — nothing’s changed on their side,” White House counter-terrorism czar Sebastian Gorka told Newsmax after NSPM-7 was signed. “Not one leader —not one left wing thought leader, member of Congress, Senator — nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric.” It doesn't matter to them who reacted how, even if every person left of center in the world put Charlie Kirk rest in peace as their profile picture, including every senator and congress person, they would have still done this and still said this. I'm sure that this, however, is because of Obama, or so would our resident fascist boot lickers tell us, if they didn't completely ignore things like this and pretend they aren't happening. To make sure everybody, even the people in the far back, can understand what's going on right now. Sebastian Gorka may not be a familiar name, but he's a very important person in counter-terrorism. Very high up. He has previously served under Trump's first administration and is now serving a second time. He just used a false pretext (lying about zero Democrat leader condemnation of Kirk's assassination) to accuse all Democrat leaders of supporting political violence against prominent right-wing figures. It's very clear he's lying. He KNOWS his accusation is false. Here's proof: "This is not acceptable and well have to condemn it. We have to stop it," Sen. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a longtime Trump foe, said in a Sept. 10 post on X. "This is sickening." "Political violence is NEVER acceptable," House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said in an Sept. 10 post on X. "My thoughts and prayers are with Charlie Kirk and his family." Rep. Maxwell Frost, the first member of Gen Z elected to Congress, said the shooting was "nothing short of horrific" and condemned the violence. The Florida Democrat said in a Sept. 10 Facebook post reacting to the shooting that "every single person deserves to be safe from gun violence no matter" their political beliefs. "Debates get passionate. People have strong feelings. That's part of the democratic process. But the notion that people think because they disagree with someone, violence is an acceptable response to it, is one we have to stamp out in this country," Democratic Rep. Adam Smith of Washington said. "We should all feel a deep sense of grief and outrage at the terrible violence that took place in Utah today," Newsom wrote on X.
"Charlie Kirk's murder is sick and reprehensible, and our thoughts are with his family, children, and loved ones," he added. "I knew Charlie, and I admired his passion and commitment to debate." As well as Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and plenty more. There was a lot of condemnation of the assassination. Gorka is full of shit, very fitting for the entire Trump administration. You didn't pay close enough attention to what Gorka said. Either you didn't see/internalize the word rhetoric, or you did and think assassinations are a form of rhetoric. He said "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric." (This by itself is probably hyperbole as I'm sure the number isn't 0.) He did not say "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violence." You disproved a ghost. Your counterexamples are for something other than what he said. What you'd want is statements like Fetterman's.Gorka goes on to say "[Nobody has said]...We jettison the voices such as Maxine Waters or Joe Biden who talked about using violence against their political opponents. We totally excoriate them and we remove them from our political environment. They haven't done anything, and Charlie's dead, and Erika's a widow, and those children will grow up without a father. The left refuses to rid themselves of the justification for violence, and as such President Trump is taking measures to protect us from the violent rhetoric that becomes snipers and bullets." He's making a similar point I made which was if you give a token "oops killing is bad" after every act of violence, it gives you plausibility deniability even if you immediately go back to the same old routine of riling up millions (at most) for stochastic terrorism. Agreed. Biden really should be jettisoned from the party for that time he said, "Trump wants to abolish, essentially abolish the second amendment. By the way, if he gets to pick.... if he gets to pick his judges (shrugs). Nothing you can do, folks. Although the second amendment people- maybe there is, I don't know." Sounds like encouraging the murder of his political rivals from Biden, or maybe a joke, I don't know. Or maybe it was said by the current President of the United States, but who keeps track of those things.
As long as he agreed to concede the election peacefully if he lost I think it's okay.
|
People in this thread like to lean on the “Second Amendment folks” quote to say Trump endorses political violence, which is fair enough but honestly that one is fairly oblique and there’s plenty of material there. Like, remember when he promised to pay the legal bills of anybody at his rallies that assaulted the press?
People mock this stuff from the right like it’s inconsistent, but the position is totally coherent. They’re fine with some political violence, they just think they should be in charge and opposing their authority should be illegal. Right wing violence is fine, that’s not opposing their authority. Left wing opposition isn’t fine (peaceful or not), but since we’re coming from a system where that’s legal they point at left wing violence and say “see, this wouldn’t happen if you let us crush the opposition.”
It’s not that complicated, everybody is just so accustomed to “peaceful opposition should be legal” being a universally held belief that they keep getting confused by it.
|
Canada11593 Posts
On September 29 2025 03:02 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2025 02:46 Falling wrote:On September 28 2025 19:57 oBlade wrote:On September 28 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2025 19:12 Jankisa wrote:Chilling stuff, especially the reality free quote from the end: Show nested quote +“The real problem is this: since Charlie [Kirk] was murdered — a friend of mine, assassinated — nothing’s changed on their side,” White House counter-terrorism czar Sebastian Gorka told Newsmax after NSPM-7 was signed. “Not one leader —not one left wing thought leader, member of Congress, Senator — nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric.” It doesn't matter to them who reacted how, even if every person left of center in the world put Charlie Kirk rest in peace as their profile picture, including every senator and congress person, they would have still done this and still said this. I'm sure that this, however, is because of Obama, or so would our resident fascist boot lickers tell us, if they didn't completely ignore things like this and pretend they aren't happening. To make sure everybody, even the people in the far back, can understand what's going on right now. Sebastian Gorka may not be a familiar name, but he's a very important person in counter-terrorism. Very high up. He has previously served under Trump's first administration and is now serving a second time. He just used a false pretext (lying about zero Democrat leader condemnation of Kirk's assassination) to accuse all Democrat leaders of supporting political violence against prominent right-wing figures. It's very clear he's lying. He KNOWS his accusation is false. Here's proof: "This is not acceptable and well have to condemn it. We have to stop it," Sen. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a longtime Trump foe, said in a Sept. 10 post on X. "This is sickening." "Political violence is NEVER acceptable," House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said in an Sept. 10 post on X. "My thoughts and prayers are with Charlie Kirk and his family." Rep. Maxwell Frost, the first member of Gen Z elected to Congress, said the shooting was "nothing short of horrific" and condemned the violence. The Florida Democrat said in a Sept. 10 Facebook post reacting to the shooting that "every single person deserves to be safe from gun violence no matter" their political beliefs. "Debates get passionate. People have strong feelings. That's part of the democratic process. But the notion that people think because they disagree with someone, violence is an acceptable response to it, is one we have to stamp out in this country," Democratic Rep. Adam Smith of Washington said. "We should all feel a deep sense of grief and outrage at the terrible violence that took place in Utah today," Newsom wrote on X.
"Charlie Kirk's murder is sick and reprehensible, and our thoughts are with his family, children, and loved ones," he added. "I knew Charlie, and I admired his passion and commitment to debate." As well as Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and plenty more. There was a lot of condemnation of the assassination. Gorka is full of shit, very fitting for the entire Trump administration. You didn't pay close enough attention to what Gorka said. Either you didn't see/internalize the word rhetoric, or you did and think assassinations are a form of rhetoric. He said "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric." (This by itself is probably hyperbole as I'm sure the number isn't 0.) He did not say "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violence." You disproved a ghost. Your counterexamples are for something other than what he said. What you'd want is statements like Fetterman's.Gorka goes on to say "[Nobody has said]...We jettison the voices such as Maxine Waters or Joe Biden who talked about using violence against their political opponents. We totally excoriate them and we remove them from our political environment. They haven't done anything, and Charlie's dead, and Erika's a widow, and those children will grow up without a father. The left refuses to rid themselves of the justification for violence, and as such President Trump is taking measures to protect us from the violent rhetoric that becomes snipers and bullets." He's making a similar point I made which was if you give a token "oops killing is bad" after every act of violence, it gives you plausibility deniability even if you immediately go back to the same old routine of riling up millions (at most) for stochastic terrorism. Agreed. Biden really should be jettisoned from the party for that time he said, "Trump wants to abolish, essentially abolish the second amendment. By the way, if he gets to pick.... if he gets to pick his judges (shrugs). Nothing you can do, folks. Although the second amendment people- maybe there is, I don't know." Sounds like encouraging the murder of his political rivals from Biden, or maybe a joke, I don't know. Or maybe it was said by the current President of the United States, but who keeps track of those things. As long as he agreed to concede the election peacefully if he lost I think it's okay.
Well as long as he says 'peacefully and patriotically' once, all ramping up of conspiracies that patriots were 'losing their country' and it was being 'stolen' from them as well as the calls to stop the transfer of government before and after can be excused. And the insurrection that follows is also excused by those three magical words and/or is simultaneously a peaceful tour of the Capitol as well as a fedserrection.
|
On September 29 2025 02:46 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2025 19:57 oBlade wrote:On September 28 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2025 19:12 Jankisa wrote:Chilling stuff, especially the reality free quote from the end: Show nested quote +“The real problem is this: since Charlie [Kirk] was murdered — a friend of mine, assassinated — nothing’s changed on their side,” White House counter-terrorism czar Sebastian Gorka told Newsmax after NSPM-7 was signed. “Not one leader —not one left wing thought leader, member of Congress, Senator — nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric.” It doesn't matter to them who reacted how, even if every person left of center in the world put Charlie Kirk rest in peace as their profile picture, including every senator and congress person, they would have still done this and still said this. I'm sure that this, however, is because of Obama, or so would our resident fascist boot lickers tell us, if they didn't completely ignore things like this and pretend they aren't happening. To make sure everybody, even the people in the far back, can understand what's going on right now. Sebastian Gorka may not be a familiar name, but he's a very important person in counter-terrorism. Very high up. He has previously served under Trump's first administration and is now serving a second time. He just used a false pretext (lying about zero Democrat leader condemnation of Kirk's assassination) to accuse all Democrat leaders of supporting political violence against prominent right-wing figures. It's very clear he's lying. He KNOWS his accusation is false. Here's proof: "This is not acceptable and well have to condemn it. We have to stop it," Sen. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a longtime Trump foe, said in a Sept. 10 post on X. "This is sickening." "Political violence is NEVER acceptable," House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said in an Sept. 10 post on X. "My thoughts and prayers are with Charlie Kirk and his family." Rep. Maxwell Frost, the first member of Gen Z elected to Congress, said the shooting was "nothing short of horrific" and condemned the violence. The Florida Democrat said in a Sept. 10 Facebook post reacting to the shooting that "every single person deserves to be safe from gun violence no matter" their political beliefs. "Debates get passionate. People have strong feelings. That's part of the democratic process. But the notion that people think because they disagree with someone, violence is an acceptable response to it, is one we have to stamp out in this country," Democratic Rep. Adam Smith of Washington said. "We should all feel a deep sense of grief and outrage at the terrible violence that took place in Utah today," Newsom wrote on X.
"Charlie Kirk's murder is sick and reprehensible, and our thoughts are with his family, children, and loved ones," he added. "I knew Charlie, and I admired his passion and commitment to debate." As well as Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and plenty more. There was a lot of condemnation of the assassination. Gorka is full of shit, very fitting for the entire Trump administration. You didn't pay close enough attention to what Gorka said. Either you didn't see/internalize the word rhetoric, or you did and think assassinations are a form of rhetoric. He said "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric." (This by itself is probably hyperbole as I'm sure the number isn't 0.) He did not say "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violence." You disproved a ghost. Your counterexamples are for something other than what he said. What you'd want is statements like Fetterman's.Gorka goes on to say "[Nobody has said]...We jettison the voices such as Maxine Waters or Joe Biden who talked about using violence against their political opponents. We totally excoriate them and we remove them from our political environment. They haven't done anything, and Charlie's dead, and Erika's a widow, and those children will grow up without a father. The left refuses to rid themselves of the justification for violence, and as such President Trump is taking measures to protect us from the violent rhetoric that becomes snipers and bullets." He's making a similar point I made which was if you give a token "oops killing is bad" after every act of violence, it gives you plausibility deniability even if you immediately go back to the same old routine of riling up millions (at most) for stochastic terrorism. Agreed. Biden really should be jettisoned from the party for that time he said, "Trump wants to abolish, essentially abolish the second amendment. By the way, if he gets to pick.... if he gets to pick his judges (shrugs). Nothing you can do, folks. Although the second amendment people- maybe there is, I don't know." Sounds like encouraging the murder of his political rivals from Biden, or maybe a joke, I don't know. Or maybe it was said by the current President of the United States, but who keeps track of those things.
I wonder how many more people will be attacked before even people who harp on 10 year old quotes - without referencing the part when they were clarified after wide backlash, without referencing when everybody moved on, and without referencing the fact that nobody was shot by the alleged call to shoot someone - before even those people realize they're way behind the times.
|
On September 29 2025 04:08 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2025 02:46 Falling wrote:On September 28 2025 19:57 oBlade wrote:On September 28 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 28 2025 19:12 Jankisa wrote:Chilling stuff, especially the reality free quote from the end: Show nested quote +“The real problem is this: since Charlie [Kirk] was murdered — a friend of mine, assassinated — nothing’s changed on their side,” White House counter-terrorism czar Sebastian Gorka told Newsmax after NSPM-7 was signed. “Not one leader —not one left wing thought leader, member of Congress, Senator — nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric.” It doesn't matter to them who reacted how, even if every person left of center in the world put Charlie Kirk rest in peace as their profile picture, including every senator and congress person, they would have still done this and still said this. I'm sure that this, however, is because of Obama, or so would our resident fascist boot lickers tell us, if they didn't completely ignore things like this and pretend they aren't happening. To make sure everybody, even the people in the far back, can understand what's going on right now. Sebastian Gorka may not be a familiar name, but he's a very important person in counter-terrorism. Very high up. He has previously served under Trump's first administration and is now serving a second time. He just used a false pretext (lying about zero Democrat leader condemnation of Kirk's assassination) to accuse all Democrat leaders of supporting political violence against prominent right-wing figures. It's very clear he's lying. He KNOWS his accusation is false. Here's proof: "This is not acceptable and well have to condemn it. We have to stop it," Sen. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a longtime Trump foe, said in a Sept. 10 post on X. "This is sickening." "Political violence is NEVER acceptable," House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said in an Sept. 10 post on X. "My thoughts and prayers are with Charlie Kirk and his family." Rep. Maxwell Frost, the first member of Gen Z elected to Congress, said the shooting was "nothing short of horrific" and condemned the violence. The Florida Democrat said in a Sept. 10 Facebook post reacting to the shooting that "every single person deserves to be safe from gun violence no matter" their political beliefs. "Debates get passionate. People have strong feelings. That's part of the democratic process. But the notion that people think because they disagree with someone, violence is an acceptable response to it, is one we have to stamp out in this country," Democratic Rep. Adam Smith of Washington said. "We should all feel a deep sense of grief and outrage at the terrible violence that took place in Utah today," Newsom wrote on X.
"Charlie Kirk's murder is sick and reprehensible, and our thoughts are with his family, children, and loved ones," he added. "I knew Charlie, and I admired his passion and commitment to debate." As well as Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and plenty more. There was a lot of condemnation of the assassination. Gorka is full of shit, very fitting for the entire Trump administration. You didn't pay close enough attention to what Gorka said. Either you didn't see/internalize the word rhetoric, or you did and think assassinations are a form of rhetoric. He said "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric." (This by itself is probably hyperbole as I'm sure the number isn't 0.) He did not say "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violence." You disproved a ghost. Your counterexamples are for something other than what he said. What you'd want is statements like Fetterman's.Gorka goes on to say "[Nobody has said]...We jettison the voices such as Maxine Waters or Joe Biden who talked about using violence against their political opponents. We totally excoriate them and we remove them from our political environment. They haven't done anything, and Charlie's dead, and Erika's a widow, and those children will grow up without a father. The left refuses to rid themselves of the justification for violence, and as such President Trump is taking measures to protect us from the violent rhetoric that becomes snipers and bullets." He's making a similar point I made which was if you give a token "oops killing is bad" after every act of violence, it gives you plausibility deniability even if you immediately go back to the same old routine of riling up millions (at most) for stochastic terrorism. Agreed. Biden really should be jettisoned from the party for that time he said, "Trump wants to abolish, essentially abolish the second amendment. By the way, if he gets to pick.... if he gets to pick his judges (shrugs). Nothing you can do, folks. Although the second amendment people- maybe there is, I don't know." Sounds like encouraging the murder of his political rivals from Biden, or maybe a joke, I don't know. Or maybe it was said by the current President of the United States, but who keeps track of those things. I wonder how many more people will be attacked before even people who harp on 10 year old quotes - without referencing the part when they were clarified after wide backlash, without referencing when everybody moved on, and without referencing the fact that nobody was shot by the alleged call to shoot someone - before even those people realize they're way behind the times.
Where do you get that no one was shot by the calls to shoot someone?
|
On September 29 2025 03:51 ChristianS wrote:
People in this thread like to lean on the “Second Amendment folks” quote to say Trump endorses political violence, which is fair enough but honestly that one is fairly oblique and there’s plenty of material there. Like, remember when he promised to pay the legal bills of anybody at his rallies that assaulted the press?
To be fair it's hard to remember all the times Dementia Don has openly called for violence. It's like mass shootings in America, after we passed 300 for this year alone people just stop paying attention to it.
|
United States44242 Posts
Oblade again pretending not to see the obvious issue with asserting that Trump saying that “if Hillary wins then just shoot her” is okay because nobody shot her. Pure bad faith.
|
United States44242 Posts
I feel like maybe using the army on political enemies is some kind of political violence. The army are the ones with the bang sticks and the metal box cars, right? Isn’t violence their specialty? And isn’t the Portland thing political?
This is the kind of thing I meant when I was saying that conservatives excuse their political violence because they sheath it in the state. But the state doesn’t make the violence legitimate, the violence makes the state illegitimate. There is an absolute shitload of conservative right wing violence in the US and there always has been.
|
On September 29 2025 04:52 KwarK wrote:
I feel like maybe using the army on political enemies is some kind of political violence. The army are the ones with the bang sticks and the metal box cars, right? Isn’t violence their specialty? And isn’t the Portland thing political?
This is the kind of thing I meant when I was saying that conservatives excuse their political violence because they sheath it in the state. But the state doesn’t make the violence legitimate, the violence makes the state illegitimate. There is an absolute shitload of conservative right wing violence in the US and there always has been.
Firstly, this is ill defined and vague. Secondly, you can easily shuffle around definitions and label almost anything political violence.
Here is a simple example about an ongoing legal back and forth between the state and the gay communities in Canada and the USA. Specifically , the battle over whether or not poppers should be legal. The state's actions can easily be framed as "political violence".
When A Sex Shop that sells poppers is closed down and the owner arrested in Toronto's gay village that can be framed as "political violence" by the state against innocent gay men. Poppers are illegal in Canada and the USA. According to gay men the law about poppers and its enforcement are political violence. In their view poppers should be legal. Any time the state shuts down a poppers manufacturing centre ... that is political violence according to gay rights activists.
I don't think a sex shop getting shut down and the owner arrested is an example of political violence. I can see why some people frame it that way though.
So you're making a vague statement about an ill defined activity, namely, political violence.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
