EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 5281
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Legan
Finland496 Posts
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Phyanketto
United States601 Posts
On September 28 2025 07:11 Legan wrote: These military deployments and ICE camps will be impossible to teach about for decades, as they will stay controversial for as long. People who supported the Confederacy had to develop and popularise the Lost Cause myth to avoid admitting having fought for slavery. A similar approach is most likely to occur in response to current events. However, I am unsure if any country has ever fully confronted its past atrocities. Japan has not done it. The USA has not done it. Brittain, France and other Europeans have not done it. It seems incredibly destructive to any identity as one would have to accept that their friends, families, relatives, co-workers and so on have done horrific acts. It seems that the general response is to deny, distract, and delay until it is too late to take action. The most significant difference this time will be that many more have been aware of the actions and have recognised them as evil. When the time comes, one can only hope that those people will be listened to and not ignored in the name of unity. even reconstruction and denazification were nowhere near as clean as they've been made out to be. Cognitohazard ideologies that are memes in the Dawkins sense (self-propogating, self-defending ideas) don't just suddenly go away. I would be genuinely surprised if there was a way to depolarize at this point, and even on the left people are sick of hearing about the ongoing atrocities. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23488 Posts
On September 28 2025 04:48 Mohdoo wrote: Probably nothing. But who knows. Guess we’ll see. There will be plenty of protestors to join if you decide to make the trip down from Seattle Should there be protests? What kind should there be? Should elected Democrats be promoting them, opposing them, neither? What goals/demands should they have? What would success look like? How could people be working toward that success? Anyone/everyone is free to opine | ||
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Simberto
Germany11638 Posts
On September 28 2025 07:11 Legan wrote: These military deployments and ICE camps will be impossible to teach about for decades, as they will stay controversial for as long. People who supported the Confederacy had to develop and popularise the Lost Cause myth to avoid admitting having fought for slavery. A similar approach is most likely to occur in response to current events. However, I am unsure if any country has ever fully confronted its past atrocities. Japan has not done it. The USA has not done it. Brittain, France and other Europeans have not done it. It seems incredibly destructive to any identity as one would have to accept that their friends, families, relatives, co-workers and so on have done horrific acts. It seems that the general response is to deny, distract, and delay until it is too late to take action. The most significant difference this time will be that many more have been aware of the actions and have recognised them as evil. When the time comes, one can only hope that those people will be listened to and not ignored in the name of unity. Germany is pretty good at confronting its WW2 atrocities. But some of that is through the trick of distinguishing between "The Nazis" and "The Germans". It feels easier to accept that "The Nazis" did a lot of bad stuff than if it was "The Germans". And even then, we still have revisionists going around who try to diminish the absolute horrors of the holocaust, and hard-right extremists are becoming more popular again, too. So even the pretty comprehensive dealing with our horrific history, brought upon us through a devastatingly obviously lost war, didn't completely inoculate all of us against going into those directions again. | ||
micronesia
United States24741 Posts
On September 28 2025 07:35 Simberto wrote: Germany is pretty good at confronting its WW2 atrocities. But some of that is through the trick of distinguishing between "The Nazis" and "The Germans". It feels easier to accept that "The Nazis" did a lot of bad stuff than if it was "The Germans". The interesting question (which I don't immediately know the answer to) is how many decades it took to accomplish it. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States601 Posts
On September 28 2025 07:39 micronesia wrote: The interesting question (which I don't immediately know the answer to) is how many decades it took to accomplish it. www.youtube.com a while | ||
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Sent.
Poland9249 Posts
This matter is much more complex in the US because it's a huge country and I have no idea how Norwegian or German Americans in North Dakota should feel about what can be expected from them in regard to slavery in America before their ancestors left Europe. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States601 Posts
On September 28 2025 08:11 Sent. wrote: It's only my personal opinion and I'm not sure how many Poles would agree with me but I do think Germany did an okay job at confronting its past atrocities. I think they should be punished harder in 1945 but I don't feel like today's Germany should do something extra on top of what they chose or were made to do so far. I can't honestly blame a German born in 2000 for something his great-grandparents did over 80 years ago. This matter is much more complex in the US because it's a huge country and I have no idea how Norwegian or German Americans in North Dakota should feel about what can be expected from them in regard to slavery in America before their ancestors left Europe. Germany had the entirety of Europe and the Soviet union forcing them look at their crimes, like making a dog look at the shit it left on the floor. Who could ever do that to America? What situation would America even get in that would allow anyone to exert that level of outside accountability or control over them? You can't invade America. A civil war can't happen because division is not split up along borders. America will keep lolloping along like nothing happened after this even if dems won every election for the next ten years. Big tech and friends are the real power brokers, and they're partnered up with the three letter agencies. You see how those sorts of institutions (intelligence and industry) survived and became the power structure post soviet union. Why would it be any different here? | ||
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KwarK
United States43266 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45078 Posts
On September 28 2025 03:34 GreenHorizons wrote: So what, who cares, what is anyone going to do about it? I ask sardonically and seriously. Magically effective socialist revolution, because if it's not that, then it's nothing but mocking and gawking. | ||
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Phyanketto
United States601 Posts
https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-common-beliefs | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On September 28 2025 16:16 Phyanketto wrote: So I just want you guys to know, you're all terrorists and should expect to go to jail/summer camp at some point https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-common-beliefs When every accusation is a confession. From "left-wingers are the thought police" to "lets thought police Americans". Lets watch right-wingers play defense for Trump on this one, too. No wait, they've been deliberately staying silent on all of these kinds of news. We probably won't hear a peep from them. Unfortunately now their silence says more about their views than their words do. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18129 Posts
I don't think the dynamics change when we look at the US either. The main thing that changes is that this process is further along. Trump has successfully coopted the Republican party, whereas in Europe the political parties that this radicalisation supports are still sidelined. https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/sep/28/inside-the-everyday-facebook-networks-where-far-right-ideas-grow There's nothing new here, compared to what is regularly brought up about echo chambers, groupthink and lack of moderation/oversight, but the analysis puts it all together in an informative and well-structures way with lots of evidence. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia921 Posts
On September 28 2025 16:16 Phyanketto wrote: So I just want you guys to know, you're all terrorists and should expect to go to jail/summer camp at some point https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/trumps-nspm-7-labels-common-beliefs Chilling stuff, especially the reality free quote from the end: “The real problem is this: since Charlie [Kirk] was murdered — a friend of mine, assassinated — nothing’s changed on their side,” White House counter-terrorism czar Sebastian Gorka told Newsmax after NSPM-7 was signed. “Not one leader —not one left wing thought leader, member of Congress, Senator — nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric.” It doesn't matter to them who reacted how, even if every person left of center in the world put Charlie Kirk rest in peace as their profile picture, including every senator and congress person, they would have still done this and still said this. I'm sure that this, however, is because of Obama, or so would our resident fascist boot lickers tell us, if they didn't completely ignore things like this and pretend they aren't happening. | ||
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oBlade
United States5770 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On September 28 2025 19:12 Jankisa wrote: Chilling stuff, especially the reality free quote from the end: It doesn't matter to them who reacted how, even if every person left of center in the world put Charlie Kirk rest in peace as their profile picture, including every senator and congress person, they would have still done this and still said this. I'm sure that this, however, is because of Obama, or so would our resident fascist boot lickers tell us, if they didn't completely ignore things like this and pretend they aren't happening. To make sure everybody, even the people in the far back, can understand what's going on right now. Sebastian Gorka may not be a familiar name, but he's a very important person in counter-terrorism. Very high up. He has previously served under Trump's first administration and is now serving a second time. He just used a false pretext (lying about zero Democrat leader condemnation of Kirk's assassination) to accuse all Democrat leaders of supporting political violence against prominent right-wing figures. It's very clear he's lying. He KNOWS his accusation is false. Here's proof: "This is not acceptable and well have to condemn it. We have to stop it," Sen. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a longtime Trump foe, said in a Sept. 10 post on X. "This is sickening." "Political violence is NEVER acceptable," House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said in an Sept. 10 post on X. "My thoughts and prayers are with Charlie Kirk and his family." Rep. Maxwell Frost, the first member of Gen Z elected to Congress, said the shooting was "nothing short of horrific" and condemned the violence. The Florida Democrat said in a Sept. 10 Facebook post reacting to the shooting that "every single person deserves to be safe from gun violence no matter" their political beliefs. "Debates get passionate. People have strong feelings. That's part of the democratic process. But the notion that people think because they disagree with someone, violence is an acceptable response to it, is one we have to stamp out in this country," Democratic Rep. Adam Smith of Washington said. "We should all feel a deep sense of grief and outrage at the terrible violence that took place in Utah today," Newsom wrote on X. "Charlie Kirk's murder is sick and reprehensible, and our thoughts are with his family, children, and loved ones," he added. "I knew Charlie, and I admired his passion and commitment to debate." As well as Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and plenty more. There was a lot of condemnation of the assassination. Gorka is full of shit, very fitting for the entire Trump administration. | ||
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oBlade
United States5770 Posts
On September 28 2025 19:31 Magic Powers wrote:+ Show Spoiler + On September 28 2025 19:12 Jankisa wrote: Chilling stuff, especially the reality free quote from the end: It doesn't matter to them who reacted how, even if every person left of center in the world put Charlie Kirk rest in peace as their profile picture, including every senator and congress person, they would have still done this and still said this. I'm sure that this, however, is because of Obama, or so would our resident fascist boot lickers tell us, if they didn't completely ignore things like this and pretend they aren't happening. To make sure everybody, even the people in the far back, can understand what's going on right now. Sebastian Gorka may not be a familiar name, but he's a very important person in counter-terrorism. Very high up. He has previously served under Trump's first administration and is now serving a second time. He just used a false pretext (lying about zero Democrat leader condemnation of Kirk's assassination) to accuse all Democrat leaders of supporting political violence against prominent right-wing figures. It's very clear he's lying. He KNOWS his accusation is false. Here's proof: "This is not acceptable and well have to condemn it. We have to stop it," Sen. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., a longtime Trump foe, said in a Sept. 10 post on X. "This is sickening." "Political violence is NEVER acceptable," House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries said in an Sept. 10 post on X. "My thoughts and prayers are with Charlie Kirk and his family." Rep. Maxwell Frost, the first member of Gen Z elected to Congress, said the shooting was "nothing short of horrific" and condemned the violence. The Florida Democrat said in a Sept. 10 Facebook post reacting to the shooting that "every single person deserves to be safe from gun violence no matter" their political beliefs. "Debates get passionate. People have strong feelings. That's part of the democratic process. But the notion that people think because they disagree with someone, violence is an acceptable response to it, is one we have to stamp out in this country," Democratic Rep. Adam Smith of Washington said. "We should all feel a deep sense of grief and outrage at the terrible violence that took place in Utah today," Newsom wrote on X. "Charlie Kirk's murder is sick and reprehensible, and our thoughts are with his family, children, and loved ones," he added. "I knew Charlie, and I admired his passion and commitment to debate." As well as Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and plenty more. There was a lot of condemnation of the assassination. Gorka is full of shit, very fitting for the entire Trump administration. You didn't pay close enough attention to what Gorka said. Either you didn't see/internalize the word rhetoric, or you did and think assassinations are a form of rhetoric. He said "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric." (This by itself is probably hyperbole as I'm sure the number isn't 0.) He did not say "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violence." You disproved a ghost. Your counterexamples are for something other than what he said. What you'd want is statements like Fetterman's. Gorka goes on to say "[Nobody has said]...We jettison the voices such as Maxine Waters or Joe Biden who talked about using violence against their political opponents. We totally excoriate them and we remove them from our political environment. They haven't done anything, and Charlie's dead, and Erika's a widow, and those children will grow up without a father. The left refuses to rid themselves of the justification for violence, and as such President Trump is taking measures to protect us from the violent rhetoric that becomes snipers and bullets." He's making a similar point I made which was if you give a token "oops killing is bad" after every act of violence, it gives you plausibility deniability even if you immediately go back to the same old routine of riling up millions (at most) for stochastic terrorism. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4966 Posts
There are many voices on the left that do the same, but pretending Kirk was "just bringing the conversation into the open", is part of the problem. His speech makes people less tolerant on both sides. The left can't accept this type of speech and needs to combat it while people who are susceptible to his messaging become more intolerant of others. I don't have the time to sift through all his rhetoric to point out how this works in action, but if you really want I can give you examples of the speech he used to this effect. That's why using Kirk as a symbol for the conservative plight feels so ironic and revolting. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5672 Posts
Trump is now promoting a literal scam. lol | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18129 Posts
On September 28 2025 19:57 oBlade wrote: You didn't pay close enough attention to what Gorka said. Either you didn't see/internalize the word rhetoric, or you did and think assassinations are a form of rhetoric. He said "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violent rhetoric." (This by itself is probably hyperbole as I'm sure the number isn't 0.) He did not say "nobody has said we distance ourselves from the violence." You disproved a ghost. Your counterexamples are for something other than what he said. What you'd want is statements like Fetterman's. Gorka goes on to say "[Nobody has said]...We jettison the voices such as Maxine Waters or Joe Biden who talked about using violence against their political opponents. We totally excoriate them and we remove them from our political environment. They haven't done anything, and Charlie's dead, and Erika's a widow, and those children will grow up without a father. The left refuses to rid themselves of the justification for violence, and as such President Trump is taking measures to protect us from the violent rhetoric that becomes snipers and bullets." He's making a similar point I made which was if you give a token "oops killing is bad" after every act of violence, it gives you plausibility deniability even if you immediately go back to the same old routine of riling up millions (at most) for stochastic terrorism. I can't think of a single influential person on the left who uses vitriolic rhetoric in the way Trump does. Can you give me some examples of this violent rhetoric Gorka and you see on the left? | ||
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