|
United States44352 Posts
On October 08 2025 19:23 Magic Powers wrote:
And now KwarK (exclusively him, nobody else) is once again directing his hostility towards me. I don't even know why unless it's for the sole reason that he can't take even the slightest criticism. Nebuchad didn't say anything wrong, KwarK misrepresented him and I sided with Nebuchad. Both me and Nebuchad were being civil, and KwarK immediately resorted to denial of all criticism, then personal attacks, etc. His usual shtick.
For context this is an abridged version of the extremely hostile exchange between Nebuchad and myself that caused MP to feel compelled to rescue Nebuchad.
On October 06 2025 11:19 Nebuchad wrote:
Well there is one important thing that would be different if the situation was reversed and Hamas was committing a genocide, and it's that all of the people who think the situation is very complex and nuanced today would suddenly find it quite straightforward and simple. On October 07 2025 11:03 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Your post is meaningless. You’ve imagined a different scenario. You’ve not explained that scenario. But you’d like to let us know that within the context of that scenario you’re imagining you imagine other posters to be hypocritical in their application of values. Okay I guess. On October 07 2025 16:26 Magic Powers wrote:
No reason to call it a strawman, he's right. On October 07 2025 22:46 KwarK wrote:
Thanks for letting me know that I had no reason to call it a straw man. Had I used those words your post would certainly have been a response.
Regarding the lower quality of the discussion of politics within the United States I'd assume that it has something to do with the lower quality of politics within the United States. There'd be a whole lot fewer accusations of fascism going around if there weren't so many fascists. Fascism isn't civil, it isn't something worthy of respect or politeness.
But to you specifically MP, I really do think you need to talk to someone about this.
|
On October 08 2025 21:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 19:23 Magic Powers wrote:
And now KwarK (exclusively him, nobody else) is once again directing his hostility towards me. I don't even know why unless it's for the sole reason that he can't take even the slightest criticism. Nebuchad didn't say anything wrong, KwarK misrepresented him and I sided with Nebuchad. Both me and Nebuchad were being civil, and KwarK immediately resorted to denial of all criticism, then personal attacks, etc. His usual shtick. For context this is an abridged version of the extremely hostile exchange between Nebuchad and myself that caused MP to feel compelled to rescue Nebuchad. Show nested quote +On October 06 2025 11:19 Nebuchad wrote:
Well there is one important thing that would be different if the situation was reversed and Hamas was committing a genocide, and it's that all of the people who think the situation is very complex and nuanced today would suddenly find it quite straightforward and simple. Show nested quote +On October 07 2025 11:03 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Your post is meaningless. You’ve imagined a different scenario. You’ve not explained that scenario. But you’d like to let us know that within the context of that scenario you’re imagining you imagine other posters to be hypocritical in their application of values. Okay I guess. Show nested quote +On October 07 2025 16:26 Magic Powers wrote:
No reason to call it a strawman, he's right. Show nested quote +On October 07 2025 22:46 KwarK wrote:
Thanks for letting me know that I had no reason to call it a straw man. Had I used those words your post would certainly have been a response. Regarding the lower quality of the discussion of politics within the United States I'd assume that it has something to do with the lower quality of politics within the United States. There'd be a whole lot fewer accusations of fascism going around if there weren't so many fascists. Fascism isn't civil, it isn't something worthy of respect or politeness. But to you specifically MP, I really do think you need to talk to someone about this.
Address the fact that you hurled several insults at various forum users such as GH, oBlade and Razyda.
|
On October 08 2025 21:47 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 21:45 Nebuchad wrote:
At the risk of being glib, none of this is new. I don't see anything that's happening right now that hasn't happened for like ten years. It's all right. Frankly, you have a right to feel whichever way you want, but this isn't just about you. This is only the most recent example that motivated me to show people how aggressively antagonistic KwarK has become as of late. The many excuses for his behavior are just proof that he gets away with it because people knowingly turn a blind eye.
I just read that post and went "okay another clown post by Kwark" and then I went on with my day, I don't think it's very serious. It's not just Kwark posting like this, there's a few of them out there. In the case of people answering to GH it's been going on for years. They've clearly decided that posting like this is okay, so singling out Kwark now would be weird.
|
Northern Ireland27456 Posts
If somebody does nothing but talk bullshit, and engages in every logical fallacy known to humanity, and possibly some of their own design, and somebody they’re conversing with tells them to fuck off, who’s being uncivil?
The latter, certainly by general convention, but I’d argue the former as well.
I’m obviously exaggerating, and this isn’t especially couched in thread dynamics, just illustrative.
Indeed I made a similar point just up the page.
I have a far bigger issue with posting that’s ostensibly civil but is detrimental to the overall tenor of things, than someone being a bit spiky, but operating in good faith broadly.
Yeah Kwark can be a prick when he feels it’s justified, and perhaps his assessment of when it’s justified doesn’t align with that of others.
For me he’s not even in the conversation for worst pol thread posters, even if I think he goes too far sometimes.
|
United States44352 Posts
On October 08 2025 22:01 Nebuchad wrote:
I just read that post and went "okay another clown post by Kwark" and then I went on with my day, I don't think it's very serious. It's not just Kwark posting like this, there's a few of them out there. In the case of people answering to GH it's been going on for years. They've clearly decided that posting like this is okay, so singling out Kwark now would be weird.
Nah, your post was genuinely trash. That's okay, not every post is a winner, I'm sure I've got some trash ones too. But yours was objectively trash.
Yours essentially asserted that the reason you believed what you believed is that you had access to a greater moral clarity than the people you disagree with and that if they could see past their biases to the truth the way that you could then they would agree. A pretty condescending start.
In support of that assertion you presented a hypothetical of a reversal. Except you didn't, the reversal was never actually presented. Are we to suppose that within your hypothetical on Oct 7 2023 the IDF broke a relatively stable peace to enter Gaza bent on killing every man, woman and child living there? And that Hamas, acting in genuine existential self defence, fought back and subsequently got the upper hand? And that Hamas, now occupying much of Israel, were establishing safe zones and coordinating large scale supply of food and other aid to the Israelis under their control? Because in that hypothetical it would be a lot more complicated. But we can't know because you never actually told us what the hypothetical was.
The imagined posts you imagined other people making in this unspecified reversal hypothetical were your proof of the bias of other people. Your ability to see the situation for what it is, regardless of their parties, and their imagined ability to overcome their bias only in the imagined scenario, were the basis for your belief in your greater moral clarity.
"Okay I guess" is what that post got and it is what it deserved. It just wasn't very good. And that's okay, you made a bad argument, I called it a bad argument, we all move on, no harm, no foul.
|
I just want to thank everyone for doing their part to keep the spirit of 2011 alive.
|
United States44352 Posts
On October 08 2025 21:56 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 21:48 KwarK wrote:On October 08 2025 19:23 Magic Powers wrote:
And now KwarK (exclusively him, nobody else) is once again directing his hostility towards me. I don't even know why unless it's for the sole reason that he can't take even the slightest criticism. Nebuchad didn't say anything wrong, KwarK misrepresented him and I sided with Nebuchad. Both me and Nebuchad were being civil, and KwarK immediately resorted to denial of all criticism, then personal attacks, etc. His usual shtick. For context this is an abridged version of the extremely hostile exchange between Nebuchad and myself that caused MP to feel compelled to rescue Nebuchad. On October 06 2025 11:19 Nebuchad wrote:
Well there is one important thing that would be different if the situation was reversed and Hamas was committing a genocide, and it's that all of the people who think the situation is very complex and nuanced today would suddenly find it quite straightforward and simple. On October 07 2025 11:03 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Your post is meaningless. You’ve imagined a different scenario. You’ve not explained that scenario. But you’d like to let us know that within the context of that scenario you’re imagining you imagine other posters to be hypocritical in their application of values. Okay I guess. On October 07 2025 16:26 Magic Powers wrote:
No reason to call it a strawman, he's right. On October 07 2025 22:46 KwarK wrote:
Thanks for letting me know that I had no reason to call it a straw man. Had I used those words your post would certainly have been a response. Regarding the lower quality of the discussion of politics within the United States I'd assume that it has something to do with the lower quality of politics within the United States. There'd be a whole lot fewer accusations of fascism going around if there weren't so many fascists. Fascism isn't civil, it isn't something worthy of respect or politeness. But to you specifically MP, I really do think you need to talk to someone about this. Address the fact that you hurled several insults at various forum users such as GH, oBlade and Razyda.
GH likes to promote his own virtue based on his actions after Trump declared that he won the election in 2028. He is extremely critical of those who he thinks didn't do enough. My policy with GH is one of mirroring. If my responses to GH are insufferable then good, that is precisely the point, I'm nailing it.
oBlade posts exclusively in bad faith. And not even in a clever way. Take the example you presented.
He ignores all the issues other posters actually have with the speech and substitutes them for a straw man.On October 01 2025 04:23 oBlade wrote:
Hegseth needs to learn to behave and be a lot nicer when talking about America's enemies. Then he asserts that the straw man he invented is incompatible with some other completely unrelated straw man.
On October 01 2025 04:23 oBlade wrote:
Also, Trump is way too friendly with America's enemies like Putin.
Having forever shamed the left with their naked hypocrisy he declares "gottem" and moves on.
That post is 100x more shit than any of mine. I could respond "KYS" to it and I would still be the better poster. I could write a bot that posts better than oBlade and I can't code.
Razyda is a bit more complicated because I think he's basically the definition of a useful idiot. Emphasis on the idiot part. Some of you may recall his first entry to debate where he declared that Britain was weird because of the way Britain celebrates and honours Guy Fawkes even though he tried to blow up Parliament. That makes it harder to really blame him for what he posts because he's just not working with a full toolkit. But, at the end of the day, he's still an adult and is still responsible for preventing his own online radicalization, something he has wholly failed to do. He relies upon Twitter posts from the GOP for information and then gets upset about them.
https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5264#105266
It's tough because a lot of people who are a lot smarter than he is have invested a lot of time and money into making him think what he does. He's been put into an algorithmic box and is fed content that is curated to his specific level of naivety and broader worldview. But at the end of the day that can't remove personal responsibility from him.
I can sometimes be insulting but I want to make it clear that I'm not saying this about Razyda as an attempt at a gotcha or to be mean or whatever. I'm not using idiot as an insult here. There exists a very real bell curve of intelligence and people fall on different places on it. With his posts Razyda has given us a window into his understanding of the world and the thought process he uses to draw his conclusions. Based upon observation I have reached the same conclusion that I suspect most other people who have spent time with him have also reached.
|
On October 08 2025 22:53 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 22:01 Nebuchad wrote:
I just read that post and went "okay another clown post by Kwark" and then I went on with my day, I don't think it's very serious. It's not just Kwark posting like this, there's a few of them out there. In the case of people answering to GH it's been going on for years. They've clearly decided that posting like this is okay, so singling out Kwark now would be weird. Nah, your post was genuinely trash. That's okay, not every post is a winner, I'm sure I've got some trash ones too. But yours was objectively trash. Yours essentially asserted that the reason you believed what you believed is that you had access to a greater moral clarity than the people you disagree with and that if they could see past their biases to the truth the way that you could then they would agree. A pretty condescending start. In support of that assertion you presented a hypothetical of a reversal. Except you didn't, the reversal was never actually presented. Are we to suppose that within your hypothetical on Oct 7 2023 the IDF broke a relatively stable peace to enter Gaza bent on killing every man, woman and child living there? And that Hamas, acting in genuine existential self defence, fought back and subsequently got the upper hand? And that Hamas, now occupying much of Israel, were establishing safe zones and coordinating large scale supply of food and other aid to the Israelis under their control? Because in that hypothetical it would be a lot more complicated. But we can't know because you never actually told us what the hypothetical was. The imagined posts you imagined other people making in this unspecified reversal hypothetical were your proof of the bias of other people. Your ability to see the situation for what it is, regardless of their parties, and their imagined ability to overcome their bias only in the imagined scenario, were the basis for your belief in your greater moral clarity. "Okay I guess" is what that post got and it is what it deserved. It just wasn't very good. And that's okay, you made a bad argument, I called it a bad argument, we all move on, no harm, no foul.
You read a lot into this it seems. Etisme talked about what would happen in the reverse, which is something that is brought up quite frequently as you may or may not know. I'm not a fan of the hypothetical because it doesn't bring up anything interesting. Oh, what would you think if instead of Israel killing a bunch of Palestinians, it was Palestinians oppressing Israelis, trying to take their land and killing a bunch of them? Well, then I would say that the Palestinians are in the wrong, duh. If the situation was different then I would apply the same grid of understanding that I use today and come up with a different position. Pretty straightforward. So instead of saying this again and being boring, this time I chose to point out that the people who would change their tune if the situation was reversed is the people who defend Israel, not the people on my side.
Now in your clown answer you decided that instead of doing the same thing in reverse, Palestine was doing something else, and that's why you had different opinions. But that's not the prompt, is it? And besides, it's not true. Obviously if Palestine was doing exactly the same thing Israel was doing, your opinion would also be different, they wouldn't have to be doing worse. We can easily tell that because Hamas killed like 1000 Israelis and it got you to spiral like this for a whole ass year, obviously if they killed 60000+ you would react much worse.
All this stuff about morality, it's coming from you, not from me. Mayhaps you feel some guilt about what you chose to defend for a while and it's causing you to read it into other posts. That would be a good sign! But also it's not my problem, deal with it on your own.
|
United States44352 Posts
On October 08 2025 23:27 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 22:53 KwarK wrote:On October 08 2025 22:01 Nebuchad wrote:
I just read that post and went "okay another clown post by Kwark" and then I went on with my day, I don't think it's very serious. It's not just Kwark posting like this, there's a few of them out there. In the case of people answering to GH it's been going on for years. They've clearly decided that posting like this is okay, so singling out Kwark now would be weird. Nah, your post was genuinely trash. That's okay, not every post is a winner, I'm sure I've got some trash ones too. But yours was objectively trash. Yours essentially asserted that the reason you believed what you believed is that you had access to a greater moral clarity than the people you disagree with and that if they could see past their biases to the truth the way that you could then they would agree. A pretty condescending start. In support of that assertion you presented a hypothetical of a reversal. Except you didn't, the reversal was never actually presented. Are we to suppose that within your hypothetical on Oct 7 2023 the IDF broke a relatively stable peace to enter Gaza bent on killing every man, woman and child living there? And that Hamas, acting in genuine existential self defence, fought back and subsequently got the upper hand? And that Hamas, now occupying much of Israel, were establishing safe zones and coordinating large scale supply of food and other aid to the Israelis under their control? Because in that hypothetical it would be a lot more complicated. But we can't know because you never actually told us what the hypothetical was. The imagined posts you imagined other people making in this unspecified reversal hypothetical were your proof of the bias of other people. Your ability to see the situation for what it is, regardless of their parties, and their imagined ability to overcome their bias only in the imagined scenario, were the basis for your belief in your greater moral clarity. "Okay I guess" is what that post got and it is what it deserved. It just wasn't very good. And that's okay, you made a bad argument, I called it a bad argument, we all move on, no harm, no foul. You read a lot into this it seems. Etisme talked about what would happen in the reverse, which is something that is brought up quite frequently as you may or may not know. I'm not a fan of the hypothetical because it doesn't bring up anything interesting. Oh, what would you think if instead of Israel killing a bunch of Palestinians, it was Palestinians oppressing Israelis, trying to take their land and killing a bunch of them? Well, then I would say that the Palestinians are in the wrong, duh. If the situation was different then I would apply the same grid of understanding that I use today and come up with a different position. Pretty straightforward. So instead of saying this again and being boring, this time I chose to point out that the people who would change their tune if the situation was reversed is the people who defend Israel, not the people on my side. Now in your clown answer you decided that instead of doing the same thing in reverse, Palestine was doing something else, and that's why you had different opinions. But that's not the prompt, is it? And besides, it's not true. Obviously if Palestine was doing exactly the same thing Israel was doing, your opinion would also be different, they wouldn't have to be doing worse. We can easily tell that because Hamas killed like 1000 Israelis and it got you to spiral like this for a whole ass year, obviously if they killed 60000+ you would react much worse. All this stuff about morality, it's coming from you, not from me. Mayhaps you feel some guilt about what you chose to defend for a while and it's causing you to read it into other posts. That would be a good sign! But also it's not my problem, deal with it on your own.
Nah, I’m right. Furthermore if the positions were reversed and I had made the arguments you’d made you’d see that those arguments are invalid. It’s only because you made the bad argument that you’re defending it, you’re not capable of impartiality here.
|
Northern Ireland27456 Posts
On October 08 2025 23:19 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 21:56 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 21:48 KwarK wrote:On October 08 2025 19:23 Magic Powers wrote:
And now KwarK (exclusively him, nobody else) is once again directing his hostility towards me. I don't even know why unless it's for the sole reason that he can't take even the slightest criticism. Nebuchad didn't say anything wrong, KwarK misrepresented him and I sided with Nebuchad. Both me and Nebuchad were being civil, and KwarK immediately resorted to denial of all criticism, then personal attacks, etc. His usual shtick. For context this is an abridged version of the extremely hostile exchange between Nebuchad and myself that caused MP to feel compelled to rescue Nebuchad. On October 06 2025 11:19 Nebuchad wrote:
Well there is one important thing that would be different if the situation was reversed and Hamas was committing a genocide, and it's that all of the people who think the situation is very complex and nuanced today would suddenly find it quite straightforward and simple. On October 07 2025 11:03 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Your post is meaningless. You’ve imagined a different scenario. You’ve not explained that scenario. But you’d like to let us know that within the context of that scenario you’re imagining you imagine other posters to be hypocritical in their application of values. Okay I guess. On October 07 2025 16:26 Magic Powers wrote:
No reason to call it a strawman, he's right. On October 07 2025 22:46 KwarK wrote:
Thanks for letting me know that I had no reason to call it a straw man. Had I used those words your post would certainly have been a response. Regarding the lower quality of the discussion of politics within the United States I'd assume that it has something to do with the lower quality of politics within the United States. There'd be a whole lot fewer accusations of fascism going around if there weren't so many fascists. Fascism isn't civil, it isn't something worthy of respect or politeness. But to you specifically MP, I really do think you need to talk to someone about this. Address the fact that you hurled several insults at various forum users such as GH, oBlade and Razyda. GH likes to promote his own virtue based on his actions after Trump declared that he won the election in 2028. He is extremely critical of those who he thinks didn't do enough. My policy with GH is one of mirroring. If my responses to GH are insufferable then good, that is precisely the point, I'm nailing it. oBlade posts exclusively in bad faith. And not even in a clever way. Take the example you presented. He ignores all the issues other posters actually have with the speech and substitutes them for a straw man. Show nested quote +On October 01 2025 04:23 oBlade wrote:
Hegseth needs to learn to behave and be a lot nicer when talking about America's enemies. Then he asserts that the straw man he invented is incompatible with some other completely unrelated straw man. Show nested quote +On October 01 2025 04:23 oBlade wrote:
Also, Trump is way too friendly with America's enemies like Putin. Having forever shamed the left with their naked hypocrisy he declares "gottem" and moves on. That post is 100x more shit than any of mine. I could respond "KYS" to it and I would still be the better poster. I could write a bot that posts better than oBlade and I can't code. Razyda is a bit more complicated because I think he's basically the definition of a useful idiot. Emphasis on the idiot part. Some of you may recall his first entry to debate where he declared that Britain was weird because of the way Britain celebrates and honours Guy Fawkes even though he tried to blow up Parliament. That makes it harder to really blame him for what he posts because he's just not working with a full toolkit. But, at the end of the day, he's still an adult and is still responsible for preventing his own online radicalization, something he has wholly failed to do. He relies upon Twitter posts from the GOP for information and then gets upset about them. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5264#105266It's tough because a lot of people who are a lot smarter than he is have invested a lot of time and money into making him think what he does. He's been put into an algorithmic box and is fed content that is curated to his specific level of naivety and broader worldview. But at the end of the day that can't remove personal responsibility for him. I can sometimes be insulting but I want to make it clear that I'm not saying this about Razyda as an attempt at a gotcha or to be mean or whatever. I'm not using idiot as an insult here. There exists a very real bell curve of intelligence and people fall on different places on it. With his posts Razyda has given us a window into his understanding of the world and the thought process he uses to draw his conclusions. Based upon observation I have reached the same conclusion that I suspect most other people who have spent time with him have also reached.
Gotta say Kwark makes a good case.
|
On October 08 2025 23:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 23:27 Nebuchad wrote:On October 08 2025 22:53 KwarK wrote:On October 08 2025 22:01 Nebuchad wrote:
I just read that post and went "okay another clown post by Kwark" and then I went on with my day, I don't think it's very serious. It's not just Kwark posting like this, there's a few of them out there. In the case of people answering to GH it's been going on for years. They've clearly decided that posting like this is okay, so singling out Kwark now would be weird. Nah, your post was genuinely trash. That's okay, not every post is a winner, I'm sure I've got some trash ones too. But yours was objectively trash. Yours essentially asserted that the reason you believed what you believed is that you had access to a greater moral clarity than the people you disagree with and that if they could see past their biases to the truth the way that you could then they would agree. A pretty condescending start. In support of that assertion you presented a hypothetical of a reversal. Except you didn't, the reversal was never actually presented. Are we to suppose that within your hypothetical on Oct 7 2023 the IDF broke a relatively stable peace to enter Gaza bent on killing every man, woman and child living there? And that Hamas, acting in genuine existential self defence, fought back and subsequently got the upper hand? And that Hamas, now occupying much of Israel, were establishing safe zones and coordinating large scale supply of food and other aid to the Israelis under their control? Because in that hypothetical it would be a lot more complicated. But we can't know because you never actually told us what the hypothetical was. The imagined posts you imagined other people making in this unspecified reversal hypothetical were your proof of the bias of other people. Your ability to see the situation for what it is, regardless of their parties, and their imagined ability to overcome their bias only in the imagined scenario, were the basis for your belief in your greater moral clarity. "Okay I guess" is what that post got and it is what it deserved. It just wasn't very good. And that's okay, you made a bad argument, I called it a bad argument, we all move on, no harm, no foul. You read a lot into this it seems. Etisme talked about what would happen in the reverse, which is something that is brought up quite frequently as you may or may not know. I'm not a fan of the hypothetical because it doesn't bring up anything interesting. Oh, what would you think if instead of Israel killing a bunch of Palestinians, it was Palestinians oppressing Israelis, trying to take their land and killing a bunch of them? Well, then I would say that the Palestinians are in the wrong, duh. If the situation was different then I would apply the same grid of understanding that I use today and come up with a different position. Pretty straightforward. So instead of saying this again and being boring, this time I chose to point out that the people who would change their tune if the situation was reversed is the people who defend Israel, not the people on my side. Now in your clown answer you decided that instead of doing the same thing in reverse, Palestine was doing something else, and that's why you had different opinions. But that's not the prompt, is it? And besides, it's not true. Obviously if Palestine was doing exactly the same thing Israel was doing, your opinion would also be different, they wouldn't have to be doing worse. We can easily tell that because Hamas killed like 1000 Israelis and it got you to spiral like this for a whole ass year, obviously if they killed 60000+ you would react much worse. All this stuff about morality, it's coming from you, not from me. Mayhaps you feel some guilt about what you chose to defend for a while and it's causing you to read it into other posts. That would be a good sign! But also it's not my problem, deal with it on your own. Nah, I’m right. Furthermore if the positions were reversed and I had made the arguments you’d made you’d see that those arguments are invalid. It’s only because you made the bad argument that you’re defending it, you’re not capable of impartiality here.
Damn, it appears we are at a deadlock once again! See you next time 
|
I’ve been a tentative Kwark fan over the years, but if I were Kwark and I wanted to criticize another poster I’d steer clear of “condescending” as a line of attack. Glass houses, etc.
|
United States44352 Posts
On October 08 2025 23:51 ChristianS wrote:
I’ve been a tentative Kwark fan over the years, but if I were Kwark and I wanted to criticize another poster I’d steer clear of “condescending” as a line of attack. Glass houses, etc.
You're right and you worded that more kindly than I would have if I were responding to another me.
|
On October 08 2025 22:01 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 21:47 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 21:45 Nebuchad wrote:
At the risk of being glib, none of this is new. I don't see anything that's happening right now that hasn't happened for like ten years. It's all right. Frankly, you have a right to feel whichever way you want, but this isn't just about you. This is only the most recent example that motivated me to show people how aggressively antagonistic KwarK has become as of late. The many excuses for his behavior are just proof that he gets away with it because people knowingly turn a blind eye. I just read that post and went "okay another clown post by Kwark" and then I went on with my day, I don't think it's very serious. It's not just Kwark posting like this, there's a few of them out there. In the case of people answering to GH it's been going on for years. They've clearly decided that posting like this is okay, so singling out Kwark now would be weird.
Yeah, pretty much this.
I think it got noticeably worse when I stopped engaging with JimmiC's shitposting.
Ironically, now all the people complaining about those exchanges do is have even more braindead bad faith exchanges of shitposting with right-wingers and emotionally lash out at anyone suggesting that's vapid.
|
I’m not sure whether this was ever a fully explicit thread rule but mods used to talk sometimes about no grudge-holding. That’s a little bit fuzzy to define, but I took it to mean: obviously you’ll take a poster’s history into account in reading and responding to their posts, but if they’re responding to something new and all you’re doing is dredging up some old argument so you can rehash it, maybe just don’t and save everybody some time.
Whether or not it’s action-worthy, I do think Kwark runs afoul of that principle with GH. It kinda reminds me of LegalLord’s “electable delectable” thing. And I thought that bit was kinda funny, and even after it got annoying I still sort of admired the performance art of it, but it was just kinda clear that, like, we’re all trying to talk about Topic B and he’s dragging us back to Topic A, not to say anything new about it, but to remind us he still feels the way he did last time he brought it up.
For the record I’d file this under “constructive feedback for Kwark” and not “me begging for mod action against Kwark” but I thought it might describe the dynamic people are taking issue with (well, one of them at least).
|
Northern Ireland27456 Posts
On October 09 2025 00:18 ChristianS wrote:
I’m not sure whether this was ever a fully explicit thread rule but mods used to talk sometimes about no grudge-holding. That’s a little bit fuzzy to define, but I took it to mean: obviously you’ll take a poster’s history into account in reading and responding to their posts, but if they’re responding to something new and all you’re doing is dredging up some old argument so you can rehash it, maybe just don’t and save everybody some time.
Whether or not it’s action-worthy, I do think Kwark runs afoul of that principle with GH. It kinda reminds me of LegalLord’s “electable delectable” thing. And I thought that bit was kinda funny, and even after it got annoying I still sort of admired the performance art of it, but it was just kinda clear that, like, we’re all trying to talk about Topic B and he’s dragging us back to Topic A, not to say anything new about it, but to remind us he still feels the way he did last time he brought it up.
For the record I’d file this under “constructive feedback for Kwark” and not “me begging for mod action against Kwark” but I thought it might describe the dynamic people are taking issue with (well, one of them at least).
I don’t see how that holds. I think it’s a good idea, but the spirit of said idea is to not hold one’s past transgressions or annoying traits against them, when they’re working on doing better.
I try, and fail at times in that process. I resent shit I’ve already agreed was a mistake being dredged up so someone can throw a dig, so I fully agree with the ‘no grudge’ idea, don’t get me wrong.
If one continually posts in the exact same manner, in seeming perpetuity that’s not holding a grudge and being uncharitable, it’s calling a spade a spade, at least as one sees it.
It’s a two-way concept, one not wanting to be pigeonholed, or having past opinions dredged up to bash a new opinion is 100% fair, but equally if you just keep doing the exact same things, people absolutely can dredge up the past because you haven’t shown any inclination to deviate from those patterns.
I don’t wish to single users out, I am speaking in a generalised capacity.
People don’t seem to have a massive issue with my posting, so I have little experience of blowback that might be unfair or irk me. Of the posters who do get a bunch, I see very little change in their habits. Which is totally their call to make, but they can’t really complain if people who find their habits annoying, continue to
|
On October 08 2025 23:11 farvacola wrote:
I just want to thank everyone for doing their part to keep the spirit of 2011 alive.
we arent even close to 2011. for one mp wouldnt be here as he literally wouldnt be able to handle the flame. would be crying about literally everyones posts
|
On October 08 2025 23:19 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 21:56 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 21:48 KwarK wrote:On October 08 2025 19:23 Magic Powers wrote:
And now KwarK (exclusively him, nobody else) is once again directing his hostility towards me. I don't even know why unless it's for the sole reason that he can't take even the slightest criticism. Nebuchad didn't say anything wrong, KwarK misrepresented him and I sided with Nebuchad. Both me and Nebuchad were being civil, and KwarK immediately resorted to denial of all criticism, then personal attacks, etc. His usual shtick. For context this is an abridged version of the extremely hostile exchange between Nebuchad and myself that caused MP to feel compelled to rescue Nebuchad. On October 06 2025 11:19 Nebuchad wrote:
Well there is one important thing that would be different if the situation was reversed and Hamas was committing a genocide, and it's that all of the people who think the situation is very complex and nuanced today would suddenly find it quite straightforward and simple. On October 07 2025 11:03 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Your post is meaningless. You’ve imagined a different scenario. You’ve not explained that scenario. But you’d like to let us know that within the context of that scenario you’re imagining you imagine other posters to be hypocritical in their application of values. Okay I guess. On October 07 2025 16:26 Magic Powers wrote:
No reason to call it a strawman, he's right. On October 07 2025 22:46 KwarK wrote:
Thanks for letting me know that I had no reason to call it a straw man. Had I used those words your post would certainly have been a response. Regarding the lower quality of the discussion of politics within the United States I'd assume that it has something to do with the lower quality of politics within the United States. There'd be a whole lot fewer accusations of fascism going around if there weren't so many fascists. Fascism isn't civil, it isn't something worthy of respect or politeness. But to you specifically MP, I really do think you need to talk to someone about this. Address the fact that you hurled several insults at various forum users such as GH, oBlade and Razyda. GH likes to promote his own virtue based on his actions after Trump declared that he won the election in 2028. He is extremely critical of those who he thinks didn't do enough. My policy with GH is one of mirroring. If my responses to GH are insufferable then good, that is precisely the point, I'm nailing it. oBlade posts exclusively in bad faith. And not even in a clever way. Take the example you presented. He ignores all the issues other posters actually have with the speech and substitutes them for a straw man. Show nested quote +On October 01 2025 04:23 oBlade wrote:
Hegseth needs to learn to behave and be a lot nicer when talking about America's enemies. Then he asserts that the straw man he invented is incompatible with some other completely unrelated straw man. Show nested quote +On October 01 2025 04:23 oBlade wrote:
Also, Trump is way too friendly with America's enemies like Putin. Having forever shamed the left with their naked hypocrisy he declares "gottem" and moves on. That post is 100x more shit than any of mine. I could respond "KYS" to it and I would still be the better poster. I could write a bot that posts better than oBlade and I can't code. Razyda is a bit more complicated because I think he's basically the definition of a useful idiot. Emphasis on the idiot part. Some of you may recall his first entry to debate where he declared that Britain was weird because of the way Britain celebrates and honours Guy Fawkes even though he tried to blow up Parliament. That makes it harder to really blame him for what he posts because he's just not working with a full toolkit. But, at the end of the day, he's still an adult and is still responsible for preventing his own online radicalization, something he has wholly failed to do. He relies upon Twitter posts from the GOP for information and then gets upset about them. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5264#105266It's tough because a lot of people who are a lot smarter than he is have invested a lot of time and money into making him think what he does. He's been put into an algorithmic box and is fed content that is curated to his specific level of naivety and broader worldview. But at the end of the day that can't remove personal responsibility from him. I can sometimes be insulting but I want to make it clear that I'm not saying this about Razyda as an attempt at a gotcha or to be mean or whatever. I'm not using idiot as an insult here. There exists a very real bell curve of intelligence and people fall on different places on it. With his posts Razyda has given us a window into his understanding of the world and the thought process he uses to draw his conclusions. Based upon observation I have reached the same conclusion that I suspect most other people who have spent time with him have also reached.
I agree with everything you said about the three individuals GH, oBlade and Razyda. I hope you're hearing me. Politically speaking we're literally on the same side. Our differences are within a margin of 5-10% if I had to guess. No more than 20%. Meanwhile I strongly oppose oBlade's and Razyda's views, their argumentation style, their constant deflection, etc. I'm probably more in line with your views than with GH's as well.
And yet none of that is a justification to break the rules and insult any of them, or anyone else for that matter. Nobody here should ever be required to accept being insulted, especially not by a mod.
There are many options that are within forum/thread rules:
1) Pick apart people's arguments.
2) Cleverly dig into people's arguments, their posting history, their overall online persona, etc. with thorough or witty responses.
3) Ignore them.
4) Ignore them harder.
5) Report/warn/ban them if they break rules.
If none of those options appeal to you, that's not their problem, it's your problem. You're supposed to learn to handle it, otherwise this is not the right place for you. Just as you advise me to learn to handle things better, you should also follow your own advice.
So this is a number of good and valid options which are tolerable and fair and can be more or less productive.
Breaking the rules however is neither fair nor productive, the only thing it leads to is anger, frustration and resentment at worst, and a non-negligible deterioration of forum culture at best. There's nothing good about breaking the rules. That's why people get banned for it, because it's detrimental to the forum culture and because it's unfair to individuals.
|
Northern Ireland27456 Posts
On October 09 2025 01:05 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2025 23:19 KwarK wrote:On October 08 2025 21:56 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 21:48 KwarK wrote:On October 08 2025 19:23 Magic Powers wrote:
And now KwarK (exclusively him, nobody else) is once again directing his hostility towards me. I don't even know why unless it's for the sole reason that he can't take even the slightest criticism. Nebuchad didn't say anything wrong, KwarK misrepresented him and I sided with Nebuchad. Both me and Nebuchad were being civil, and KwarK immediately resorted to denial of all criticism, then personal attacks, etc. His usual shtick. For context this is an abridged version of the extremely hostile exchange between Nebuchad and myself that caused MP to feel compelled to rescue Nebuchad. On October 06 2025 11:19 Nebuchad wrote:
Well there is one important thing that would be different if the situation was reversed and Hamas was committing a genocide, and it's that all of the people who think the situation is very complex and nuanced today would suddenly find it quite straightforward and simple. On October 07 2025 11:03 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Your post is meaningless. You’ve imagined a different scenario. You’ve not explained that scenario. But you’d like to let us know that within the context of that scenario you’re imagining you imagine other posters to be hypocritical in their application of values. Okay I guess. On October 07 2025 16:26 Magic Powers wrote:
No reason to call it a strawman, he's right. On October 07 2025 22:46 KwarK wrote:
Thanks for letting me know that I had no reason to call it a straw man. Had I used those words your post would certainly have been a response. Regarding the lower quality of the discussion of politics within the United States I'd assume that it has something to do with the lower quality of politics within the United States. There'd be a whole lot fewer accusations of fascism going around if there weren't so many fascists. Fascism isn't civil, it isn't something worthy of respect or politeness. But to you specifically MP, I really do think you need to talk to someone about this. Address the fact that you hurled several insults at various forum users such as GH, oBlade and Razyda. GH likes to promote his own virtue based on his actions after Trump declared that he won the election in 2028. He is extremely critical of those who he thinks didn't do enough. My policy with GH is one of mirroring. If my responses to GH are insufferable then good, that is precisely the point, I'm nailing it. oBlade posts exclusively in bad faith. And not even in a clever way. Take the example you presented. He ignores all the issues other posters actually have with the speech and substitutes them for a straw man. On October 01 2025 04:23 oBlade wrote:
Hegseth needs to learn to behave and be a lot nicer when talking about America's enemies. Then he asserts that the straw man he invented is incompatible with some other completely unrelated straw man. On October 01 2025 04:23 oBlade wrote:
Also, Trump is way too friendly with America's enemies like Putin. Having forever shamed the left with their naked hypocrisy he declares "gottem" and moves on. That post is 100x more shit than any of mine. I could respond "KYS" to it and I would still be the better poster. I could write a bot that posts better than oBlade and I can't code. Razyda is a bit more complicated because I think he's basically the definition of a useful idiot. Emphasis on the idiot part. Some of you may recall his first entry to debate where he declared that Britain was weird because of the way Britain celebrates and honours Guy Fawkes even though he tried to blow up Parliament. That makes it harder to really blame him for what he posts because he's just not working with a full toolkit. But, at the end of the day, he's still an adult and is still responsible for preventing his own online radicalization, something he has wholly failed to do. He relies upon Twitter posts from the GOP for information and then gets upset about them. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5264#105266It's tough because a lot of people who are a lot smarter than he is have invested a lot of time and money into making him think what he does. He's been put into an algorithmic box and is fed content that is curated to his specific level of naivety and broader worldview. But at the end of the day that can't remove personal responsibility from him. I can sometimes be insulting but I want to make it clear that I'm not saying this about Razyda as an attempt at a gotcha or to be mean or whatever. I'm not using idiot as an insult here. There exists a very real bell curve of intelligence and people fall on different places on it. With his posts Razyda has given us a window into his understanding of the world and the thought process he uses to draw his conclusions. Based upon observation I have reached the same conclusion that I suspect most other people who have spent time with him have also reached. I agree with everything you said about the three individuals GH, oBlade and Razyda. I hope you're hearing me. Politically speaking we're literally on the same side. Our differences are within a margin of 5-10% if I had to guess. No more than 20%. Meanwhile I strongly oppose oBlade's and Razyda's views, their argumentation style, their constant deflection, etc. I'm probably more in line with your views than with GH's as well. And yet none of that is a justification to break the rules and insult any of them, or anyone else for that matter. Nobody here should ever be required to accept being insulted, especially not by a mod. There are many options that are within forum/thread rules: 1) Pick apart people's arguments. 2) Cleverly dig into people's arguments, their posting history, their overall online persona, etc. with thorough or witty responses. 3) Ignore them. 4) Ignore them harder. 5) Report/warn/ban them if they break rules. If none of those options appeal to you, that's not their problem, it's your problem. You're supposed to learn to handle it, otherwise this is not the right place for you. Just as you advise me to learn to handle things better, you should also follow your own advice. So this is a number of good and valid options which are tolerable and fair and can be more or less productive. Breaking the rules however is neither fair nor productive, the only thing it leads to is anger, frustration and resentment at worst, and a non-negligible deterioration of forum culture at best. There's nothing good about breaking the rules. That's why people get banned for it, because it's detrimental to the forum culture and because it's unfair to individuals.
Sometimes calling a fucking idiot, a fucking idiot is the optimal way. Cuts through a load of nonsense dancing around it
|
On October 09 2025 01:11 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2025 01:05 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 23:19 KwarK wrote:On October 08 2025 21:56 Magic Powers wrote:On October 08 2025 21:48 KwarK wrote:On October 08 2025 19:23 Magic Powers wrote:
And now KwarK (exclusively him, nobody else) is once again directing his hostility towards me. I don't even know why unless it's for the sole reason that he can't take even the slightest criticism. Nebuchad didn't say anything wrong, KwarK misrepresented him and I sided with Nebuchad. Both me and Nebuchad were being civil, and KwarK immediately resorted to denial of all criticism, then personal attacks, etc. His usual shtick. For context this is an abridged version of the extremely hostile exchange between Nebuchad and myself that caused MP to feel compelled to rescue Nebuchad. On October 06 2025 11:19 Nebuchad wrote:
Well there is one important thing that would be different if the situation was reversed and Hamas was committing a genocide, and it's that all of the people who think the situation is very complex and nuanced today would suddenly find it quite straightforward and simple. On October 07 2025 11:03 KwarK wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Your post is meaningless. You’ve imagined a different scenario. You’ve not explained that scenario. But you’d like to let us know that within the context of that scenario you’re imagining you imagine other posters to be hypocritical in their application of values. Okay I guess. On October 07 2025 16:26 Magic Powers wrote:
No reason to call it a strawman, he's right. On October 07 2025 22:46 KwarK wrote:
Thanks for letting me know that I had no reason to call it a straw man. Had I used those words your post would certainly have been a response. Regarding the lower quality of the discussion of politics within the United States I'd assume that it has something to do with the lower quality of politics within the United States. There'd be a whole lot fewer accusations of fascism going around if there weren't so many fascists. Fascism isn't civil, it isn't something worthy of respect or politeness. But to you specifically MP, I really do think you need to talk to someone about this. Address the fact that you hurled several insults at various forum users such as GH, oBlade and Razyda. GH likes to promote his own virtue based on his actions after Trump declared that he won the election in 2028. He is extremely critical of those who he thinks didn't do enough. My policy with GH is one of mirroring. If my responses to GH are insufferable then good, that is precisely the point, I'm nailing it. oBlade posts exclusively in bad faith. And not even in a clever way. Take the example you presented. He ignores all the issues other posters actually have with the speech and substitutes them for a straw man. On October 01 2025 04:23 oBlade wrote:
Hegseth needs to learn to behave and be a lot nicer when talking about America's enemies. Then he asserts that the straw man he invented is incompatible with some other completely unrelated straw man. On October 01 2025 04:23 oBlade wrote:
Also, Trump is way too friendly with America's enemies like Putin. Having forever shamed the left with their naked hypocrisy he declares "gottem" and moves on. That post is 100x more shit than any of mine. I could respond "KYS" to it and I would still be the better poster. I could write a bot that posts better than oBlade and I can't code. Razyda is a bit more complicated because I think he's basically the definition of a useful idiot. Emphasis on the idiot part. Some of you may recall his first entry to debate where he declared that Britain was weird because of the way Britain celebrates and honours Guy Fawkes even though he tried to blow up Parliament. That makes it harder to really blame him for what he posts because he's just not working with a full toolkit. But, at the end of the day, he's still an adult and is still responsible for preventing his own online radicalization, something he has wholly failed to do. He relies upon Twitter posts from the GOP for information and then gets upset about them. https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5264#105266It's tough because a lot of people who are a lot smarter than he is have invested a lot of time and money into making him think what he does. He's been put into an algorithmic box and is fed content that is curated to his specific level of naivety and broader worldview. But at the end of the day that can't remove personal responsibility from him. I can sometimes be insulting but I want to make it clear that I'm not saying this about Razyda as an attempt at a gotcha or to be mean or whatever. I'm not using idiot as an insult here. There exists a very real bell curve of intelligence and people fall on different places on it. With his posts Razyda has given us a window into his understanding of the world and the thought process he uses to draw his conclusions. Based upon observation I have reached the same conclusion that I suspect most other people who have spent time with him have also reached. I agree with everything you said about the three individuals GH, oBlade and Razyda. I hope you're hearing me. Politically speaking we're literally on the same side. Our differences are within a margin of 5-10% if I had to guess. No more than 20%. Meanwhile I strongly oppose oBlade's and Razyda's views, their argumentation style, their constant deflection, etc. I'm probably more in line with your views than with GH's as well. And yet none of that is a justification to break the rules and insult any of them, or anyone else for that matter. Nobody here should ever be required to accept being insulted, especially not by a mod. There are many options that are within forum/thread rules: 1) Pick apart people's arguments. 2) Cleverly dig into people's arguments, their posting history, their overall online persona, etc. with thorough or witty responses. 3) Ignore them. 4) Ignore them harder. 5) Report/warn/ban them if they break rules. If none of those options appeal to you, that's not their problem, it's your problem. You're supposed to learn to handle it, otherwise this is not the right place for you. Just as you advise me to learn to handle things better, you should also follow your own advice. So this is a number of good and valid options which are tolerable and fair and can be more or less productive. Breaking the rules however is neither fair nor productive, the only thing it leads to is anger, frustration and resentment at worst, and a non-negligible deterioration of forum culture at best. There's nothing good about breaking the rules. That's why people get banned for it, because it's detrimental to the forum culture and because it's unfair to individuals. Sometimes calling a fucking idiot, a fucking idiot is the optimal way. Cuts through a load of nonsense dancing around it
wise words. the world would be in a much better place if people cared less about protecting the feelings of stupid people when calling them out on their stupidity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
