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US Politics Feedback Thread

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zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7640 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-11 02:23:52
June 11 2016 02:23 GMT
#1
it seems there's been a spot of trouble in the latest round of discussion.
Thread was locked pending mod review.

I favor tighter moderation of the thread (as I have for ages).

can't say it felt like the worst the thread has been.

not sure what we say here will have much effect on the mod decision.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States37644 Posts
June 11 2016 02:25 GMT
#2
Since Trump and Hillary became the presumptive nominees the debate polarized with absolutely no common ground being tolerated. It's become a stain on the website and I have no desire to moderate it because if I tried to I'd just ban 10 or so people outright. Will ask smarter men than myself in the mod team for their thoughts.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17732 Posts
June 11 2016 02:26 GMT
#3
Sorry, but the discussion being had does not warrant locking the thread. Not by a long shot.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18129 Posts
June 11 2016 02:35 GMT
#4
On June 11 2016 11:26 xDaunt wrote:
Sorry, but the discussion being had does not warrant locking the thread. Not by a long shot.

^
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2648 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-11 02:44:21
June 11 2016 02:37 GMT
#5
Yeah, it really wasn't that bad. People were not directly insulting each other or anything. Just subtle snide remarks here and there.

It would help if people would actually try to attack the merits of the opinion instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks or useless adjectives.
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4529 Posts
June 11 2016 02:38 GMT
#6
My thought, which I'm sure isn't original, but I think would help, is if you just set a temporary rule for a while that people can't post less than 3 lines (or however many lines, except sources like StealthBlue), it would purge most of the garbage. That's a non-partisan thing that should elevate the whole thread a bit and stop people from posting without contributing or engaging. It's not like there's any upcoming debates or conventions yet that people would be live reporting - which would actually be a reasonable time for us all to be one-lining.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18129 Posts
June 11 2016 02:40 GMT
#7
On June 11 2016 11:38 oBlade wrote:
My thought, which I'm sure isn't original, but I think would help, is if you just set a temporary rule for a while that people can't post less than 3 lines (or however many lines, except sources like StealthBlue), it would purge most of the garbage. That's a non-partisan thing that should elevate the whole thread a bit and stop people from posting without contributing or engaging. It's not like there's any upcoming debates or conventions yet that people would be live reporting - which would actually be a reasonable time for us all to be one-lining.

I'm not opposed to this.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States20614 Posts
June 11 2016 04:02 GMT
#8
On June 11 2016 11:25 KwarK wrote:
Since Trump and Hillary became the presumptive nominees the debate polarized with absolutely no common ground being tolerated. It's become a stain on the website and I have no desire to moderate it because if I tried to I'd just ban 10 or so people outright. Will ask smarter men than myself in the mod team for their thoughts.


Saw this coming, I'd quote the post from March, but locked and all. I imagine it's going to get worse before it gets better.

Wait until all of the pageantry is through and it's just 1v1 with nothing but what they say to shift public opinion and that's when the knives will really come out.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then"// Socialism has markets. Markets ≠ capitalism.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia2417 Posts
June 11 2016 07:31 GMT
#9
Actually the thread has been like this for quite some time. I don't think anyone is under the illusion there is a neutral discussion going on where people haven't already made up their minds, but a stain on the website?

There are increasingly fewer places on the internet that have both sides talking in the same room. It's either just one or the other candidate that gets pushed really hard and the other side gets shut down fast. But I think the thread itself is really bloated and all over the place, just build a new thread dedicated to just to the elections.

On June 11 2016 11:38 oBlade wrote:
My thought, which I'm sure isn't original, but I think would help, is if you just set a temporary rule for a while that people can't post less than 3 lines (or however many lines, except sources like StealthBlue), it would purge most of the garbage. That's a non-partisan thing that should elevate the whole thread a bit and stop people from posting without contributing or engaging. It's not like there's any upcoming debates or conventions yet that people would be live reporting - which would actually be a reasonable time for us all to be one-lining.


This will just make the shitposts longer.
| Chelsea Football Club <3 | Winner of General forum survivor 2015!
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania4751 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-11 10:24:36
June 11 2016 10:14 GMT
#10
it's like you dudes just got dropped on the head upon this earth ...

meh, i had a rant but it would've been useless. just do what you always do: have more rules on top of other rules so people could keep on pretending they're decent and good and right because they belong to TL's church of PCness!.

go outside, get fucked, then figure out where rules enforcing common sense got you.
then, decide if you want to build walls(rules) like good ol' Mr.Trump, or let people in; different people, different cultured people.

And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States13188 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-11 13:17:35
June 11 2016 13:15 GMT
#11
I think locking the thread was a overreaction. However, I do think the thread needed to be pulled in a bit. oBlade has a good idea or only allowing a certain number of posts per day. One of the big issues in the thread is how Testie will seemingly spend an entire day just replying to everyone with enormous, obstructing posts strung up with youtube videos and the like. A couple Testie posts a day makes sense, but it is just wild sometimes.
zeo
Profile Joined October 2009
Serbia2417 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-11 14:16:11
June 11 2016 14:14 GMT
#12
On June 11 2016 19:14 xM(Z wrote:
it's like you dudes just got dropped on the head upon this earth ...

meh, i had a rant but it would've been useless. just do what you always do: have more rules on top of other rules so people could keep on pretending they're decent and good and right because they belong to TL's church of PCness!.

go outside, get fucked, then figure out where rules enforcing common sense got you.
then, decide if you want to build walls(rules) like good ol' Mr.Trump, or let people in; different people, different cultured people.


I don't think your wall analogy works here.

The US politics thread is all over the place, sure. But it doesn't have the report brigading, consistent personal attacks with no mod action, slander and hostility that the Ukraine thread had. But the underlining problem will be the same, the more you try to restrict an incredibly polarizing subject the worse it will become. Now, as the elections heat up the US thread will become more and more like the Ukraine thread. Especially if one candidate in particular starts falling behind you will see the return of ban brigading, and the thread will be bogged down with 'who should be banned because they are a bigot' discussions. That is what you need to fight against.

TL has its 10 commandments and moderation staff should just stick to the point, for example, you attack someone personally you get banned, you don't contribute anything to the thread and only come in to backseat moderate?... fuck off. Just moderate. What you want is a community that is not afraid to express its own opinion about whatever subject a thread is about, you need to promote open dialog. Saying you can only say this or that in a specific kind of way leads to people not posting their own opinion, they resort to regurgitating opinion pieces that shill for their view or post news stories without their own commentary.

People should be free to come to their own conclusions about things. You can put all the restrictions you want on the thread it will go to shit the closer to November you go.
| Chelsea Football Club <3 | Winner of General forum survivor 2015!
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7640 Posts
June 11 2016 14:23 GMT
#13
I think using the TL 10 commandments more aggressively would help alot. Some of the stuff wouldn't be tolerated in say, SC threads, so enforcing those same rules in politics should work reasonably.

A common problem in practice is dispute over what exactly each side is claiming; with people often going after what they think someone said (or what others elsewhere on the internet said), rather than what they in fact did say. Also sometimes fed by uncertainty over what someone meant by what they said. Greater clarity in exactly what someone is claiming would help.

While not innately bad; the trend for certain individuals to be responding to everything, and then getting into a dispute over it, causes the thread to bloat very fast and be hard to keep up with. I'm not sure what, if any, mechanism could address that. Perhaps something to force a pause, and get clarification, when two people get into it? I don't know.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18129 Posts
June 11 2016 15:56 GMT
#14
While certainly a speculative observation, I think the aftereffects of locking the politics thread can be observed in the Christina Grimmie memorial thread. No matter how "bad" the politics thread gets, its utility as a catch all place for discussions of political/social topics seems fairly self-evident, particularly when one starts looking at what moderation had to put up with prior to its creation.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2648 Posts
June 11 2016 18:41 GMT
#15
So yeah. Any estimate on how long we are going to keep this closed? I kinda agree with zeo on this. I think it's good to have differences of opinion being discussed. Nothing got too crazy especially when it comes to political discussions. Just take a look at other websites. It is horrifying.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States37644 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-11 18:49:40
June 11 2016 18:44 GMT
#16
On June 12 2016 03:41 SolaR- wrote:
So yeah. Any estimate on how long we are going to keep this closed? I kinda agree with zeo on this. I think it's good to have differences of opinion being discussed. Nothing got too crazy especially when it comes to political discussions. Just take a look at other websites. It is horrifying.

I'm thinking I'll unlock it mid November at the moment.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States20614 Posts
June 11 2016 19:03 GMT
#17
On June 12 2016 03:44 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2016 03:41 SolaR- wrote:
So yeah. Any estimate on how long we are going to keep this closed? I kinda agree with zeo on this. I think it's good to have differences of opinion being discussed. Nothing got too crazy especially when it comes to political discussions. Just take a look at other websites. It is horrifying.

I'm thinking I'll unlock it mid November at the moment.


You'd just end up shutting down thread after thread when people make one for each "event" in the election. Probably got about 24 more hours before people just turn this into the new US Politics Megathread.

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then"// Socialism has markets. Markets ≠ capitalism.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States13188 Posts
June 11 2016 19:03 GMT
#18
Can you clarify again why this thread is such an affront to you? Perhaps I am missing a key detail here, but this all seems like a strange response.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States37644 Posts
June 11 2016 19:49 GMT
#19
On June 12 2016 04:03 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2016 03:44 KwarK wrote:
On June 12 2016 03:41 SolaR- wrote:
So yeah. Any estimate on how long we are going to keep this closed? I kinda agree with zeo on this. I think it's good to have differences of opinion being discussed. Nothing got too crazy especially when it comes to political discussions. Just take a look at other websites. It is horrifying.

I'm thinking I'll unlock it mid November at the moment.


You'd just end up shutting down thread after thread when people make one for each "event" in the election. Probably got about 24 more hours before people just turn this into the new US Politics Megathread.


They can try.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2648 Posts
June 11 2016 19:50 GMT
#20
What are specific examples where people went over the line and caused issues? This would at least provide some guidance to the most frequent contributors to change their attitudes, tone, and how they approach the rules when posting in that thread.

I think it is a little unfair that this has been closed so long without any specific examples cited. Please let us know, so that we can at least think about how to discuss these topics more efficiently. I am not targeting anyone, I know there are probably a lot of things that I could work on.
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