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On June 13 2016 11:33 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 11:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2016 11:10 SolaR- wrote:
That ban of Testie is absolutely ridiculous. Frankly, it makes me not even want to post here anymore. I wasn't going to say anything until I saw that ban. But it was just too much to ignore. I did not lock the topic for the exact same shit that was ruining it to go to every other general forum topic. When it is reopened that will be the place for that shit. Not every tragedy needs to be politicized immediately.
First,
On June 12 2016 04:49 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 04:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2016 03:44 KwarK wrote:On June 12 2016 03:41 SolaR- wrote:
So yeah. Any estimate on how long we are going to keep this closed? I kinda agree with zeo on this. I think it's good to have differences of opinion being discussed. Nothing got too crazy especially when it comes to political discussions. Just take a look at other websites. It is horrifying. I'm thinking I'll unlock it mid November at the moment. You'd just end up shutting down thread after thread when people make one for each "event" in the election. Probably got about 24 more hours before people just turn this into the new US Politics Megathread. They can try.
so lol.
But even I'll say that's a BS ban. First they came for the Testies....
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United States44275 Posts
On June 13 2016 11:57 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 11:33 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 11:18 xDaunt wrote:On June 13 2016 11:10 SolaR- wrote:
That ban of Testie is absolutely ridiculous. Frankly, it makes me not even want to post here anymore. I wasn't going to say anything until I saw that ban. But it was just too much to ignore. I did not lock the topic for the exact same shit that was ruining it to go to every other general forum topic. When it is reopened that will be the place for that shit. Not every tragedy needs to be politicized immediately. First, Show nested quote +On June 12 2016 04:49 KwarK wrote:On June 12 2016 04:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 12 2016 03:44 KwarK wrote:On June 12 2016 03:41 SolaR- wrote:
So yeah. Any estimate on how long we are going to keep this closed? I kinda agree with zeo on this. I think it's good to have differences of opinion being discussed. Nothing got too crazy especially when it comes to political discussions. Just take a look at other websites. It is horrifying. I'm thinking I'll unlock it mid November at the moment. You'd just end up shutting down thread after thread when people make one for each "event" in the election. Probably got about 24 more hours before people just turn this into the new US Politics Megathread. They can try. so lol. But even I'll say that's a BS ban. First they came for the Testies....
I'd have come for you too if you'd gone in there to tell us that Bernie is the only hope to save the dead.
Additionally I did not go through the US Politics Megathread banning all dissenters, people whose intellect I judged to be unworthy and anyone else who I just didn't like. While obviously I do have a stance in the "racist' "no u" debate that was taking place in it both sides of that five fucking pages of circular "he literally said this" "I don't care" argument were awful. I locked it because I'd had enough of everyone, not just the people I perceive to be idiots.
While I do post in that topic I try extremely hard not to ban anyone in that topic for precisely that reason. Someone can feel free to look up the last time I banned someone in that topic but I don't think it's happened in a quite a while. I chose to lock and refer the entire thing to other mods it rather than purge it because banning everyone who pisses me off isn't good moderation. I banned nobody in the US Politics Megathread for the state of it and held all participants collectively responsible for it. The lock was simply a "other mods, I think this topic is a stain on the dignity of humanity in general, I put it on ice while we talk about it". I'm sure you'll get your fun back eventually but in the mean time try and keep your facebook memes, r/The_Donald links, r/FeelTheBern links and cries of racism contained. I'm sure you can all manage to find a facebook comment chain to get your fix while you wait.
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On June 13 2016 11:10 SolaR- wrote:
That ban of Testie is absolutely ridiculous. Frankly, it makes me not even want to post here anymore.
while I dont think a ban was necessarily the right move, his spoilered picture wasn't necessary at all imo
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On June 13 2016 12:01 KwarK wrote: "I don't care" argument were awful. I locked it because I'd had enough of everyone, not just the people I perceive to be idiots.
Is this really a reason to lock a thread? This keeps seeming increasingly personal and emotionally driven.
Forgive my personal bullshit, but:
When I first joined TL, I was a young, impressionable shit head who would get mad and flame people. I had posted on music game forums and other "wild west" types of not-so-moderated forums. Mods would leave condescending posts before closing threads, would regularly belittle posters, etc. I was incredibly impressed to see how different TL was.
I'm an admin of another large forum, and before being even a moderator (looking back like 10 years here), I looked up to TL moderators because of the excellent work they did. In BW and other sub-forums, conversation was polite, respectful, on topic, and the moderators were the reason. I have always admired the work you guys do because it always felt so incredibly impartial.
When I found TL, after realizing people played BW professionally, I was so taken aback by what an awesome paradise TL had managed to create. It wasn't that everyone were machines. People had impassioned conversations regarding balance (omg!) and even political topics! Things would get heated, but ultimately, it was a good place because TL mods were willing to moderate the dirty topics. They took a dirty topic and cleaned it, as a true, glorious moderator should.
It was inspirational. It was really cool to say that moderators were capable of shaping a localized society. It was awesome to see that moderation could result in a net benefit to conversation. Moderation can bring the best out in people.
By giving up on the politics thread, I feel like TL is giving up on what makes TL such an incredible community: The abso-fucking-lutely amazing moderators. They kept me honest, they made me post better. TL moderators showed me that moderation can take the cancer that is internet discussion and turn it into something that is even better than real life. Moderation brings together views from ALL ACROSS THE WORLD (Think about that) and creates a medium through which people can be respectful and productive, despite the incredible differences we all have.
Please consider re-opening the politics thread. I think TL staff has a well earned reputation for being exceptional moderators.
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United States44275 Posts
On June 13 2016 13:11 Mohdoo wrote:
Please consider re-opening the politics thread. I think TL staff has a well earned reputation for being exceptional moderators.
You need not plea the case for it to me, I'm not making a decision regarding it.
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On June 13 2016 13:20 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 13:11 Mohdoo wrote:
Please consider re-opening the politics thread. I think TL staff has a well earned reputation for being exceptional moderators. You need not plea the case for it to me, I'm not making a decision regarding it.
I suppose my post was intended to be read by whoever is making these decisions. If you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate it if you could direct the group who *is* deciding to my post. I have been on TL a long time and really love it here. I would never ask my opinion to be regarded higher than anyone else's, but I hope it sees the eyes it is intended for.
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United States44275 Posts
On June 13 2016 13:22 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 13:20 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 13:11 Mohdoo wrote:
Please consider re-opening the politics thread. I think TL staff has a well earned reputation for being exceptional moderators. You need not plea the case for it to me, I'm not making a decision regarding it. I suppose my post was intended to be read by whoever is making these decisions. If you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate it if you could direct the group who *is* deciding to my post. I have been on TL a long time and really love it here. I would never ask my opinion to be regarded higher than anyone else's, but I hope it sees the eyes it is intended for.
I can quote it in the mods forum if you like but I'm sure this topic is on the radar for the others too.
Part of the problem is no other mod has any interest in reading or moderating the US Politics Megathread either.
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On June 13 2016 13:25 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 13:22 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2016 13:20 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 13:11 Mohdoo wrote:
Please consider re-opening the politics thread. I think TL staff has a well earned reputation for being exceptional moderators. You need not plea the case for it to me, I'm not making a decision regarding it. I suppose my post was intended to be read by whoever is making these decisions. If you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate it if you could direct the group who *is* deciding to my post. I have been on TL a long time and really love it here. I would never ask my opinion to be regarded higher than anyone else's, but I hope it sees the eyes it is intended for. I can quote it in the mods forum if you like but I'm sure this topic is on the radar for the others too. Part of the problem is no other mod has any interest in reading or moderating the US Politics Megathread either.
Tribunal maybe? Elected by members of the politics thread. We could have a minimum number of posts either on TL or in the US politics thread or both. Then the tribunal could just forward actions to a generic mod account or something. They wouldn't have any power outside of the US Politics Thread and there could be another thread buried somewhere where the actions are discussed.
Just spitballin'
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So let me get this straight: Testie was banned, for posting a statement of a major party presidential candidate on the topic, in a thread on the topic, by Kwark and we are supposed to listen to the repeated bullshit about how this is not all Kwark's agenda and how he is such an impartial mod? That is laughable.
I really wonder if the moderation on TL is such a free for all, or just run by a group of people who share Kwark's moral code but are too hypocritical to show it openly and let him scapegoat for them?
Yeah, sure, Testie dared to include a silly picture in a spoiler. Such a terrible infraction from someone who has been under constant hostility here for ... I don't really know how long. While the moderators keep absolutely straight and constructive demeanor, right?
If I didn't care about SC2, I would be outta here as fast as possible ...
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On June 13 2016 14:59 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 13:25 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 13:22 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2016 13:20 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 13:11 Mohdoo wrote:
Please consider re-opening the politics thread. I think TL staff has a well earned reputation for being exceptional moderators. You need not plea the case for it to me, I'm not making a decision regarding it. I suppose my post was intended to be read by whoever is making these decisions. If you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate it if you could direct the group who *is* deciding to my post. I have been on TL a long time and really love it here. I would never ask my opinion to be regarded higher than anyone else's, but I hope it sees the eyes it is intended for. I can quote it in the mods forum if you like but I'm sure this topic is on the radar for the others too. Part of the problem is no other mod has any interest in reading or moderating the US Politics Megathread either. Tribunal maybe? Elected by members of the politics thread. We could have a minimum number of posts either on TL or in the US politics thread or both. Then the tribunal could just forward actions to a generic mod account or something. They wouldn't have any power outside of the US Politics Thread and there could be another thread buried somewhere where the actions are discussed. Just spitballin'
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that thread dominated by one political faction? Do you trust them to objective?
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On June 13 2016 15:40 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 14:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 13 2016 13:25 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 13:22 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2016 13:20 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 13:11 Mohdoo wrote:
Please consider re-opening the politics thread. I think TL staff has a well earned reputation for being exceptional moderators. You need not plea the case for it to me, I'm not making a decision regarding it. I suppose my post was intended to be read by whoever is making these decisions. If you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate it if you could direct the group who *is* deciding to my post. I have been on TL a long time and really love it here. I would never ask my opinion to be regarded higher than anyone else's, but I hope it sees the eyes it is intended for. I can quote it in the mods forum if you like but I'm sure this topic is on the radar for the others too. Part of the problem is no other mod has any interest in reading or moderating the US Politics Megathread either. Tribunal maybe? Elected by members of the politics thread. We could have a minimum number of posts either on TL or in the US politics thread or both. Then the tribunal could just forward actions to a generic mod account or something. They wouldn't have any power outside of the US Politics Thread and there could be another thread buried somewhere where the actions are discussed. Just spitballin' Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that thread dominated by one political faction? Do you trust them to objective?
I was thinking it could be arbitrarily divided something like 3 left 3 right 2 toss-ups. For instance, neither myself or Moo are especially fond of Testie but neither of us agreed with the ban. I think the details would have to get hammered out but I think it could end up being as fair as anything else.
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On June 13 2016 16:14 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 15:40 Sent. wrote:On June 13 2016 14:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 13 2016 13:25 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 13:22 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2016 13:20 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 13:11 Mohdoo wrote:
Please consider re-opening the politics thread. I think TL staff has a well earned reputation for being exceptional moderators. You need not plea the case for it to me, I'm not making a decision regarding it. I suppose my post was intended to be read by whoever is making these decisions. If you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate it if you could direct the group who *is* deciding to my post. I have been on TL a long time and really love it here. I would never ask my opinion to be regarded higher than anyone else's, but I hope it sees the eyes it is intended for. I can quote it in the mods forum if you like but I'm sure this topic is on the radar for the others too. Part of the problem is no other mod has any interest in reading or moderating the US Politics Megathread either. Tribunal maybe? Elected by members of the politics thread. We could have a minimum number of posts either on TL or in the US politics thread or both. Then the tribunal could just forward actions to a generic mod account or something. They wouldn't have any power outside of the US Politics Thread and there could be another thread buried somewhere where the actions are discussed. Just spitballin' Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that thread dominated by one political faction? Do you trust them to objective? I was thinking it could be arbitrarily divided something like 3 left 3 right 2 toss-ups. For instance, neither myself or Moo are especially fond of Testie but neither of us agreed with the ban. I think the details would have to get hammered out but I think it could end up being as fair as anything else.
Personally I think anyone that says they are neutral and non-biased about a polarising political subject should be banned for life from the internet. I have 10x more respect for someone that is open about their views than a little shit that says 'I'm just looking at things impartially but gee whiz I always seem to come to a conclusion that one side is always right and shill to get the other side banned'.
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Germany25658 Posts
K I am reopening the politics thread. have "fun" guys.
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On June 13 2016 17:42 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2016 16:14 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 13 2016 15:40 Sent. wrote:On June 13 2016 14:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 13 2016 13:25 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 13:22 Mohdoo wrote:On June 13 2016 13:20 KwarK wrote:On June 13 2016 13:11 Mohdoo wrote:
Please consider re-opening the politics thread. I think TL staff has a well earned reputation for being exceptional moderators. You need not plea the case for it to me, I'm not making a decision regarding it. I suppose my post was intended to be read by whoever is making these decisions. If you wouldn't mind, I would appreciate it if you could direct the group who *is* deciding to my post. I have been on TL a long time and really love it here. I would never ask my opinion to be regarded higher than anyone else's, but I hope it sees the eyes it is intended for. I can quote it in the mods forum if you like but I'm sure this topic is on the radar for the others too. Part of the problem is no other mod has any interest in reading or moderating the US Politics Megathread either. Tribunal maybe? Elected by members of the politics thread. We could have a minimum number of posts either on TL or in the US politics thread or both. Then the tribunal could just forward actions to a generic mod account or something. They wouldn't have any power outside of the US Politics Thread and there could be another thread buried somewhere where the actions are discussed. Just spitballin' Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that thread dominated by one political faction? Do you trust them to objective? I was thinking it could be arbitrarily divided something like 3 left 3 right 2 toss-ups. For instance, neither myself or Moo are especially fond of Testie but neither of us agreed with the ban. I think the details would have to get hammered out but I think it could end up being as fair as anything else. Personally I think anyone that says they are neutral and non-biased about a polarising political subject should be banned for life from the internet. I have 10x more respect for someone that is open about their views than a little shit that says 'I'm just looking at things impartially but gee whiz I always seem to come to a conclusion that one side is always right and shill to get the other side banned'.
very plausible point; but surely there must exist some individuals who have lower than average levels of bias? I know I claim to be low bias (not no bias of course), and pretty able to look at things impartially.
The other way to get neutral people of course is to find people who just don't care about the subject; which is sometimes possible even on polarizing issues. Just a bit hard to find since they don't go into the topics, since they don't care.
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Generally people look less highly upon those with unpopular opinions, all else held equal. They see shittiness where nothing was actually shitty because they want not to like that person. They take legitimately unreasonable points and magnify them into something well beyond what they should be. The better question is, who could we actually judge to determine who is less biased? Certainly not the most opinionated (and active) people within the thread.
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I'm less active and somewhat less opinionated! :D
Certainly though unreasonableness from people you dislike tends to be much more grating and visible than from people you like.
It is a very difficult question to assess bias.
I aim to be very correct in general; but it's very hard to establish to other people that I do that, due to how hard it is to show, and how much information it can take to demonstrate such a thing.
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So, now that the thread been back a bit; thoughts from mods and others on how its working?
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United States44275 Posts
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On June 15 2016 10:18 zlefin wrote:
So, now that the thread been back a bit; thoughts from mods and others on how its working?
It's pretty much the same as it was before.
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On June 15 2016 11:46 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 10:18 zlefin wrote:
So, now that the thread been back a bit; thoughts from mods and others on how its working? It's pretty much the same as it was before.
Testie's ban just ended so that is true now I guess. Expecting 100 posts to read in the morning at least. Politics thread has been moving so slowly without him and templar.
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EPT
