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On September 26 2025 04:49 LightSpectra wrote: My position on right-wing violence: Let's fix this. Let's implement universal healthcare that includes therapy and psychiatry, reasonable gun control, and allocate more resources to prevent online radicalization.
If left-wing violence was more common, my position would be: Let's fix this. Let's implement universal healthcare that includes therapy and psychiatry, reasonable gun control, and allocate more resources to prevent online radicalization.
The vast majority of people of any political allegiance are not violent, so collective blame is entirely pointless.
Unless the point of collective blame was shameless political gain.
Yeah, it's honestly astonishing that we're not having a debate on how to reduce terrorism and political violence, but rather which side is worse, just because right-wingers can't deal with reality. They're the "facts, not feelings" crowd until it's very inconvenient for them to care about facts. And why is it so inconvenient? Do they condone the political violence? Or is it that they want to change the history books regarding which side is more violent? What is their motivation? The motivation doesn't seem to be to save lives, but much rather that their political reputation is at stake.
On September 26 2025 00:42 Jankisa wrote: Did you read the article?
I am all for US government trying to address the male loneliness epidemic, mental health crisis, online radicalization, social media and other issues that cause these folks to go off the rails, unfortunately, you and them aren't interested in that.
And yes, it's a pattern, it's been a pattern since at least the Christchurch shooter, these people don't have a cohesive political identity or ideas, they are agents of chaos and that's what they try to do.
To you, they are useful because you want to be violent to "others". Be it immigrants, leftists, trans people, black people because you are a fascist boot licker.
The other thing that you clearly don't understand that the left's, especially liberal ideology is almost exclusively non violent. This is not something you can understand because it's beyond your limited comprehension of the world.
Hope this explains it for you sufficiently.
You desperately need a reintroduction to politics if you believe the US government needs to address the male loneliness epidemic in Christchurch, New Zealand.
If you want to define the left as non-violent, so any violence that exists is automatically not leftist, you can. Do you think that's going to fool adults?
The truth is it needs to be quite a bit more "almost."
The last month: Kirk assassinated, attempted bombing of Fox news van,Democrat lobbyist shot up an ABC in California. Massacre of Catholic children. Another attack on ICE. "Another?" Yeah, remember the Darwin award winner a few months ago who was working with an antifa cell that threw smoke bombs fireworks to lure federal agents out and ambush them, and then got wasted? Remember the 2nd Trump assassin that just tried to stick a pen in his jugular after being found guilty? Remember the 1st assassin? Remember the mob outside Kavanaugh's house? Intimidating a judge is a federal crime. Who was charged for that? Remember the Summer of Love and attack on the White House? The mass shooting of Congresspeople? You know someone instrumental in the Capitol bombing was made a professor?
This is not like the weather, oh it's lightning striking nobody could have predicted it.
This is a pattern of stochastic terrorism driven by politicians and media figures who constantly urge it with dogwhistles, say "oops violence is bad" after it happens for plausible deniability, and then restart the whole gaslighting process. I don't care 300 or 400 public figures stamped there "violence is bad" card before saying "yeah but they're all still Nazis and it's their fault if this happens again if they don't stop being Nazis." I care about their millions of unhinged followers, some of whom are actually American residents or even citizens, who hear loud and clear and know exactly what the game is. They may need some kind of reeducation or a red flag of their gun rights before this keeps happening.
Alternative is the Yvette Clarkes and Barack Obamas of the world can switch gears and revise their statements. Instead of "Yeah I guess it's not great that Kirk was murdered during a public conversation, but we should still be able to disagree with him," come out and say "Every single one of you, calm down, grow up, stop attacking people, and we will give you a free electric car and social worker for every credible threat of violence you report." That'd be leadership.
All good points but I'd like to add that remember when the judge overseeing ghislaine maxwell's case had her entire family murdered and the assassin then offend himself and the media never talked about it? Remember when epstein totally didn't kill himself, the media said he did, and then all the footage we got was probably doctored?
Conspiracy does exist, and only for the objectives of the rich, powerful, and government. You were made to remember the name Dylan roof, but nobody remembers Stephen paddock.
On September 26 2025 00:42 Jankisa wrote: Did you read the article?
I am all for US government trying to address the male loneliness epidemic, mental health crisis, online radicalization, social media and other issues that cause these folks to go off the rails, unfortunately, you and them aren't interested in that.
And yes, it's a pattern, it's been a pattern since at least the Christchurch shooter, these people don't have a cohesive political identity or ideas, they are agents of chaos and that's what they try to do.
To you, they are useful because you want to be violent to "others". Be it immigrants, leftists, trans people, black people because you are a fascist boot licker.
The other thing that you clearly don't understand that the left's, especially liberal ideology is almost exclusively non violent. This is not something you can understand because it's beyond your limited comprehension of the world.
Hope this explains it for you sufficiently.
This is a pattern of stochastic terrorism driven by politicians and media figures who constantly urge it with dogwhistles, say "oops violence is bad" after it happens for plausible deniability, and then restart the whole gaslighting process. I don't care 300 or 400 public figures stamped there "violence is bad" card before saying "yeah but they're all still Nazis and it's their fault if this happens again if they don't stop being Nazis." I care about their millions of unhinged followers, some of whom are actually American residents or even citizens, who hear loud and clear and know exactly what the game is. They may need some kind of reeducation or a red flag of their gun rights before this keeps happening.
Alternative is the Yvette Clarkes and Barack Obamas of the world can switch gears and revise their statements. Instead of "Yeah I guess it's not great that Kirk was murdered during a public conversation, but we should still be able to disagree with him," come out and say "Every single one of you, calm down, grow up, stop attacking people, and we will give you a free electric car and social worker for every credible threat of violence you report." That'd be leadership.
Blaming the left for stochastic terrorism, when even the president of the US has refused to condemn any right wing violence is laughable. Literally all of the democratic establishment has constantly been asking for people to not do assassinations and political violence. Meanwhile republicans are cheering for civil war. The gaslighting is insane.
Notice the brazen equivocation.
"Republicans" are cheering for civil war, who? What happened to "establishment?"
The words of the "Democratic establishment" are a charade if that's all they do after radicalizing, intentionally or not, millions of people into celebrating death. Denounce isn't enough, they have to reverse what they messed up.
Why'd you say "Democratic establishment" but not "Republican establishment?" Did you erase it because you know it wouldn't be true? Then who are the Republicans? Random people, right? Republicans I see are cheering "Stop shooting people, you idiots, because Republicans always win civil wars when you push them to it." I did see Andrew Tate call for civil war. I don't know his party registration, he might be a Republican until his due deportation.
"Charlie Kirk didnt hate his enemies, i do" - Donald Trump “We will prove worthy of your time on earth. We will make you proud. We will finish the job. We will defeat the forces of darkness and evil.” - Stephen Miller
This *is* the republican establishment saying out loud they hate their enemies (the democrats) and need to fight them.
I simply forgot to write "the republican establishment" because i was focusing on other stuff while writing. But sure, keep putting words in my mouth oBlade. I see you ignored my last post responding to you, so i doin't expect an answer here either, oBlade. Did i say "oBlade" enough times for your liking, oBlade?
On September 26 2025 04:49 LightSpectra wrote: My position on right-wing violence: Let's fix this. Let's implement universal healthcare that includes therapy and psychiatry, reasonable gun control, and allocate more resources to prevent online radicalization.
If left-wing violence was more common, my position would be: Let's fix this. Let's implement universal healthcare that includes therapy and psychiatry, reasonable gun control, and allocate more resources to prevent online radicalization.
The vast majority of people of any political allegiance are not violent, so collective blame is entirely pointless.
Unless the point of collective blame was shameless political gain.
Yeah, it's honestly astonishing that we're not having a debate on how to reduce terrorism and political violence, but rather which side is worse, just because right-wingers can't deal with reality. They're the "facts, not feelings" crowd until it's very inconvenient for them to care about facts. And why is it so inconvenient? Do they condone the political violence? Or is it that they want to change the history books regarding which side is more violent? What is their motivation? The motivation doesn't seem to be to save lives, but much rather that their political reputation is at stake.
Theyve never cared about facts. Its always feelings.
I still remember Newt Gingrich on fox news talking about how the crime stats dont matter and that even though crime stats were way down people didnt feel that and the feeling of high crime was pervasive. Of fucking course people who watch fox news would think that because thats all fox would report on. Statistics be damned.
On September 26 2025 04:28 oBlade wrote: Also see other crimes, like assault and murder and vandalism. Take for example a guy who beats up a stranger for appearing Hispanic. This is obviously a racist hate crime, so we can record it as such - far right violence. Now take a graduate student who assaults an Indian wearing the wrong politics hat. Oops, don't record that one, it doesn't count. In fact, let's record it as far-right also since the victim was a racial minority, so it must be racist, and racism is right-wing.
If I'm understanding correctly you just invented this methodology which you're now upset about. It's not clear why you invented it but you've managed to be victimized by it so I guess job done.
On September 26 2025 04:28 oBlade wrote: if there's even a single instance of far-left antisemitism, etc.
This is an interesting approach to research. If I'm understanding correctly you're proposing comparing the statistics to your conclusion and if the statistics do not align with your conclusion then you're going to present that as proof that the statistics are invalid. It's certainly one way to go about it.
That's the nice thing about that method. You start with a conclusion, and then when the stats don't align with that, you have multiple ways of dealing with it.
You can, for example, fire the people doing the statistical research and attempt to replace them with ones that deliver the correct results. That seems to be the Donald Trump approach.
Or you can claim that the results are clearly fake and make up reasons why they are, then never bother to check if those things you think might be problems are actually things that are problems with the statistics. That is what you need to do when you don't have enough power to replace the people doing the statistics.
I mean this isn't even photoshopped. If you want more evidence of republicans cheering for civil war we can get that but its a deep hole to dig into. Calling for the elimination of transgenderism isn't even a surprise anymore.
I mean this isn't even photoshopped. If you want more evidence of republicans cheering for civil war we can get that but its a deep hole to dig into. Calling for the elimination of transgenderism isn't even a surprise anymore.
Trump sat in the whitehouse today with Erdogan, started going off on rigged elections as he is wont to do. Pointed at Erdogan, and said ‘this guy knows about rigged elections better than anybody.’
crazy shit. this one’s pretty hilarious though. but can you imagine? LOL. i’m baffled that nobody in that room laughed.
On September 26 2025 06:34 brian wrote: Trump sat in the whitehouse today with Erdogan, started going off on rigged elections as he is wont to do. Pointed at Erdogan, and said ‘this guy knows about rigged elections better than anybody.’
crazy shit. this one’s pretty hilarious though. but can you imagine? LOL.
Has he ever had anything nice to say about a non-autocrat? He glazed Vlad, Viktor, Erdogan, Jong-un, Modi, and more, and he's completely blasted every leader the UK, Germany, France, Canada, etc have had while he was in power. Anyone who thinks he's not going to stick around for a third term if he's still alive and healthy is kidding themselves. He openly praises these people. He would probably have high praise for the CIA-installed dictators in Central and South America if they were still in power. Sure, the average person can still say what they want, but can the media? Can anyone with reach or designs on governance or candidacy? People talk openly of redistricting to disenfranchise their ideological opponents, and none of the republicans who went to law school, have studied the constitution, or historical precedent are making a peep. He's already incited mobs to storm the capital to maintain his grip on power, and pardoned those who did, making martyrs of those who died in such a pursuit.
Future anthropologists are going to be writing dissertations on how social media and the attention economy // post-truth era favor this sort of simplistic, feel-good talk governance. An entire era defined by "my source is I made it the fuck up." I'm beyond despair.
I mean this isn't even photoshopped. If you want more evidence of republicans cheering for civil war we can get that but its a deep hole to dig into. Calling for the elimination of transgenderism isn't even a surprise anymore.
That's a real photo? Why would they write that?
The FBI was going to start taking seriously the growing phenomenon that school boards and other public officals were receiving threats against their life. It was posited that If a school board member was killed due to a threat against their life for making kids get vaccinated that it would be domestic terrorism.
Instead of telling people "hey you can disagree at school board meetings and civic engagement is good but please don't threaten the lives of politicians," they went "naw we're all domestic terrorists now everyone go forth and terrorize".
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote: So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
I like the thread dichotomy between "the fascists deserve it and whst did they expect?" with "these recent shootings are actually right-wing." I understand why they don't like the bullets though, it makes it harder to pin an event on their preferred target in the immediate aftermath. Meanwhile we are to assume that since he shot into a van he couldn't see into and hit people he didnt intend, it's a false flag. A very devoted one, since the shooter killed himself after, as you said. But maybe Luigi was a false flag, after all the person he killed was head of a company that didnt do anything to him. And no one pushed back on this as of yet. Really losing it in here recently.
You're thinking of a conspiracy. False flag is false identification, e.g. as a disguise or redirection of blame.
Let me clarify. The belief that the ICE shooting was a false flag operation is a conspiracy theory.
Seems like a predictable consequence of making the criminal justice system an explicitly partisan institution, no?
For like a decade now the standard profile of these shooters has been, basically, terminally online losers committing violence as an extreme form of shitposting. What little I’ve seen of this case seems consistent with that archetype. But didn’t these guys (in charge of the FBI now, fresh off careers as right-wing podcasters) try to tell us the last one had “transgender ideology” inscribed on the bullets? Meanwhile the administration they’re plainly partisan agents for tried to use it as a Reichstag fire-esque excuse to crack down on dissent? Why exactly should we take them at their word?
I would say FBI offices are not partisan places, but then again I lived through Russiagate.
The only sign people were trying to point to was that the shooter hit detainees. Now that we know why, and we have a bunch of other evidence, the already incredibly far-fetched theory that it's a setup is even more rediculous. And during the first hours of the Kirk investigation there were leaks, and now we have way more info into his motive, showing that indeed the most likely explanation was the correct one. In this case now as well, he left a note and the bullets. What's remarkable is this guy is screaming to the world why he did it and that fact will presumably be used as evidence it's fake. People are sacrificing more and more of their rational faculties to try and pin bad things on their opponents. Your penultimate sentence is assuming the conclusion.
By the way this is what is wrong with so many of these violence studies. If you try hard enough, you can take any sort of facts and categorize them as you wish. Kirk murder, ICE attack, not political! Gunman who killed people in MN for seemingly personal reasons=right-wing violence. And it's not about the volume entirely. The difference is that everyone here can condemn when some right-wing freak kills someone, but it's like pulling teeth trying to go the other way.
I suggest people stop tying themselves into intellectual knots attached to an ever descending anchor deeper into the echo chamber. If you are at the point where you think the FBI might have set this up then you made many a mistake in getting to this point.
On September 25 2025 19:48 Liquid`Drone wrote: So my brother works at this place called Kantega, it's an IT-company with a particular policy which makes it differ from most of its competitors: owning stock is mandatory to work there, the employers own 100% of the company, and everybody owns an equal share. It is a private company - but essentially what modern day socialism within a capitalist society looks like.
Kantega has on numerous occasions been highlighted as one of the best places to work in all of Norway, they attract top talent and have very low turnover. I've basically yet to hear anything negative from any people who work there. It sure as fuck isn't plagued by employees stealing stuff. I mean,the idea that 'if workers own part of their work place, they will be incentivized to steal from their work place' is a special type of logic that I can't really grasp my head around, but oh well.
Nobody is arguing for soviet-style command economy with rampant corruption to boot. Worker ownership of the means of production has no relationship with that, and the notion that Polish people stealing from a totalitarian regime is an argument against coops is at best laughable.
Razyda has disproved your brother, he’s simply not possible. Sorry for your loss.
No I didnt. Socialism can exist/work in small communes, for period of time. It cannot work on national scale.
On September 25 2025 22:33 Jankisa wrote: I find it hilarious but also very consistent with his general view of the world that Ryzada bases his political views on 70-es in communist Poland.
I'm not that old but know enough people who are and who lived through Yugoslavian version of communism to tell you that this stealing shit wasn't related to communism itself but with two things, mind you, this is my opinion, but Slavs generally have this attitude of fuck the company they don't pay me enough for this shit so I'll steal whenever I can plus the countries were mismanaged and there was a lot of poverty so people also kind of had to do this.
This kind of shit was very prevalent in Croatia after we became a capitalist country, up until the point where people were starting to get paid livable wages and everything professionalized.
Regarding the ICE shooter, it seems like this is another terminally online , did it for the memes edgelord, this time, unlike the CK shooter one that is far less competent and much further down the 4chan rabbithole.
I'm not an expert, but I knew a guy very similar to this one who radicalized himself on these boards to a point where he got fired and dissipated from the face of the earth, and this is in Croatia, I'm sure it's way more prevalent in the USA, that, plus the general accessibility of guns and apparently this shit being trendy and this shit is looking very grim.
Of course, the ghouls in the USA government don't give a fuck, they will use this guy just like they did the CK shooter to go after their opposition.
Dude if thats not racist I dont know what is .
Re ICE shooter, just...please stop. This is known right wing rag Guardian:
In the 2016 election the FBI director literally intervened to torpedo Hillary by reopening a bullshit case right before the election and Trump literally did coordinate with Russia as the investigation later proved and Introvert is still here trying to make Russiagate stick.
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote: So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
I like the thread dichotomy between "the fascists deserve it and whst did they expect?" with "these recent shootings are actually right-wing." I understand why they don't like the bullets though, it makes it harder to pin an event on their preferred target in the immediate aftermath. Meanwhile we are to assume that since he shot into a van he couldn't see into and hit people he didnt intend, it's a false flag. A very devoted one, since the shooter killed himself after, as you said. But maybe Luigi was a false flag, after all the person he killed was head of a company that didnt do anything to him. And no one pushed back on this as of yet. Really losing it in here recently.
You're thinking of a conspiracy. False flag is false identification, e.g. as a disguise or redirection of blame.
Let me clarify. The belief that the ICE shooting was a false flag operation is a conspiracy theory.
Seems like a predictable consequence of making the criminal justice system an explicitly partisan institution, no?
For like a decade now the standard profile of these shooters has been, basically, terminally online losers committing violence as an extreme form of shitposting. What little I’ve seen of this case seems consistent with that archetype. But didn’t these guys (in charge of the FBI now, fresh off careers as right-wing podcasters) try to tell us the last one had “transgender ideology” inscribed on the bullets? Meanwhile the administration they’re plainly partisan agents for tried to use it as a Reichstag fire-esque excuse to crack down on dissent? Why exactly should we take them at their word?
I would say FBI offices are not partisan places, but then again I lived through Russiagate.
Lol. You saw the news this week that Trump fired somebody for saying they didn’t have evidence to indict Comey? Or that Tom Homan was caught by the FBI taking a $50,000 cash bribe before the new administration shut the investigation down? Are you really gonna say the Russia investigation was equivalent to that?
The only sign people were trying to point to was that the shooter hit detainees. Now that we know why, and we have a bunch of other evidence, the already incredibly far-fetched theory that it's a setup is even more rediculous. And during the first hours of the Kirk investigation there were leaks, and now we have way more info into his motive, showing that indeed the most likely explanation was the correct one. In this case now as well, he left a note and the bullets. What's remarkable is this guy is screaming to the world why he did it and that fact will presumably be used as evidence it's fake. People are sacrificing more and more of their rational faculties to try and pin bad things on their opponents. Your penultimate sentence is assuming the conclusion.
Which conclusion is that? That the ICE attack is a “false flag”? Maybe I don’t know my history, but wasn’t the Reichstag fire probably set by some communist, and then used by the Nazis as an excuse to crack down on unrelated opposition groups?
Kirk’s assassin, to me, fit the incel-adjacent profile of most recent mass shooters, but I’m guessing you’re assigning him as a leftist partisan. Fine, whatever. But after falsely announcing the shooter had inscribed “transgender ideology” on his bullets, the administration tried to say things like “The Democrat Party is not a political party, it is a domestic extremist organization” and that they were going to “dismantle and destroy” left-wing organizations because they’re a “vast domestic terror network.” Sounds like an attempt at a Reichstag fire-esque crackdown to me. Would you consider Horst Wessel a more apt comparison?
By the way this is what is wrong with so many of these violence studies. If you try hard enough, you can take any sort of facts and categorize them as you wish. Kirk murder, ICE attack, not political! Gunman who killed people in MN for seemingly personal reasons=right-wing violence. And it's not about the volume entirely. The difference is that everyone here can condemn when some right-wing freak kills someone, but it's like pulling teeth trying to go the other way.
I suggest people stop tying themselves into intellectual knots attached to an ever descending anchor deeper into the echo chamber. If you are at the point where you think the FBI might have set this up then you made many a mistake in getting to this point.
I don’t really care about how you count violence for the score-keeping exercise. I never said I thought it was a false flag thing, in fact I think I explicitly said otherwise, but at the same time when an authoritarian government is forcing formerly nonpartisan information sources to issue state-friendly propaganda instead, people are going to start to think conspiratorially. I’m not aware of any evidence the Reichstag fire was actually set by Nazi agents, but could you blame people at the time for wondering if it might have been?
On the classified documents case they literally have a tape of Trump saying “see this document, I didn’t declassify it while President and now it’s illegal for me to show you, look at it, this is illegal, isn’t that funny, if I’d declassified it this would be fine but I didn’t and so showing it like this is illegal” and it didn’t even matter. Republicans will still cry daily about how the legal system is rigged against them. The Democrat controlled deep state FBI went after Trump and all they had on him was a signed confession and a public statement that he did it and would do it again. Clearest case of lawfare I’ve ever seen.
Communes is not socialism Its called communism beacuse of communes. This is a classic gotcha of not understanding what the words mean/ trying to make the words mean multiple things when you want them to.
Yes if we all lived in a single commune, it would not work, but co-ops work and have worked for long periods of time. Multiple coops working together is functionally no different than coops and non-co-ops working together.
Even defining what a coop is breaks down very easily when you try to apply a hard and fast definition to it. If it means ownership of the company by the workers then every single company that has stock options is in some way a coop. Startup tech companies that rely on stock options and shared ownership in leu of payment are in effect coops. CEO's getting stock options for better preformance is in a way also a coop.
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote: So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
I like the thread dichotomy between "the fascists deserve it and whst did they expect?" with "these recent shootings are actually right-wing." I understand why they don't like the bullets though, it makes it harder to pin an event on their preferred target in the immediate aftermath. Meanwhile we are to assume that since he shot into a van he couldn't see into and hit people he didnt intend, it's a false flag. A very devoted one, since the shooter killed himself after, as you said. But maybe Luigi was a false flag, after all the person he killed was head of a company that didnt do anything to him. And no one pushed back on this as of yet. Really losing it in here recently.
I dont think you do. Thats the problem conservatives have, they dont realise who they dealing with. Some of you say that Liberals are in the cult, but you cant quite grasp implications of that. Most of conservatives seems to still believe that there is some gap to bridge/common ground. There isnt. There is not a single social issue they are willing to cede ground on, more so, even if you grant them all they ask for, they will come back with new demands.
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote: So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
I like the thread dichotomy between "the fascists deserve it and whst did they expect?" with "these recent shootings are actually right-wing." I understand why they don't like the bullets though, it makes it harder to pin an event on their preferred target in the immediate aftermath. Meanwhile we are to assume that since he shot into a van he couldn't see into and hit people he didnt intend, it's a false flag. A very devoted one, since the shooter killed himself after, as you said. But maybe Luigi was a false flag, after all the person he killed was head of a company that didnt do anything to him. And no one pushed back on this as of yet. Really losing it in here recently.
I dont think you do. Thats the problem conservatives have, they dont realise who they dealing with. Some of you say that Liberals are in the cult, but you cant quite grasp implications of that. Most of conservatives seems to still believe that there is some gap to bridge/common ground. There isnt. There is not a single social issue they are willing to cede ground on, more so, even if you grant them all they ask for, they will come back with new demands.
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote: So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
I like the thread dichotomy between "the fascists deserve it and whst did they expect?" with "these recent shootings are actually right-wing." I understand why they don't like the bullets though, it makes it harder to pin an event on their preferred target in the immediate aftermath. Meanwhile we are to assume that since he shot into a van he couldn't see into and hit people he didnt intend, it's a false flag. A very devoted one, since the shooter killed himself after, as you said. But maybe Luigi was a false flag, after all the person he killed was head of a company that didnt do anything to him. And no one pushed back on this as of yet. Really losing it in here recently.
You're thinking of a conspiracy. False flag is false identification, e.g. as a disguise or redirection of blame.
Let me clarify. The belief that the ICE shooting was a false flag operation is a conspiracy theory.
Seems like a predictable consequence of making the criminal justice system an explicitly partisan institution, no?
For like a decade now the standard profile of these shooters has been, basically, terminally online losers committing violence as an extreme form of shitposting. What little I’ve seen of this case seems consistent with that archetype. But didn’t these guys (in charge of the FBI now, fresh off careers as right-wing podcasters) try to tell us the last one had “transgender ideology” inscribed on the bullets? Meanwhile the administration they’re plainly partisan agents for tried to use it as a Reichstag fire-esque excuse to crack down on dissent? Why exactly should we take them at their word?
I would say FBI offices are not partisan places, but then again I lived through Russiagate.
The only sign people were trying to point to was that the shooter hit detainees. Now that we know why, and we have a bunch of other evidence, the already incredibly far-fetched theory that it's a setup is even more rediculous. And during the first hours of the Kirk investigation there were leaks, and now we have way more info into his motive, showing that indeed the most likely explanation was the correct one. In this case now as well, he left a note and the bullets. What's remarkable is this guy is screaming to the world why he did it and that fact will presumably be used as evidence it's fake. People are sacrificing more and more of their rational faculties to try and pin bad things on their opponents. Your penultimate sentence is assuming the conclusion.
By the way this is what is wrong with so many of these violence studies. If you try hard enough, you can take any sort of facts and categorize them as you wish. Kirk murder, ICE attack, not political! Gunman who killed people in MN for seemingly personal reasons=right-wing violence. And it's not about the volume entirely. The difference is that everyone here can condemn when some right-wing freak kills someone, but it's like pulling teeth trying to go the other way.
I suggest people stop tying themselves into intellectual knots attached to an ever descending anchor deeper into the echo chamber. If you are at the point where you think the FBI might have set this up then you made many a mistake in getting to this point.
So the only reason I have any doubt about these things or consider them conspiracies is because the really quick release of really questionable evidence that is just so straightforward and ideologically convenient that it boggles the mind. I think the people trying to say these shooters are right wing is pretty braindead, though. They were probably right wing at one point, and then changed their politics due to the realities they were seeing around them. It's also possible these people are just pushing back against whoever they perceive to be in power at any given time, you know, like libertarians always do.
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote: So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
I like the thread dichotomy between "the fascists deserve it and whst did they expect?" with "these recent shootings are actually right-wing." I understand why they don't like the bullets though, it makes it harder to pin an event on their preferred target in the immediate aftermath. Meanwhile we are to assume that since he shot into a van he couldn't see into and hit people he didnt intend, it's a false flag. A very devoted one, since the shooter killed himself after, as you said. But maybe Luigi was a false flag, after all the person he killed was head of a company that didnt do anything to him. And no one pushed back on this as of yet. Really losing it in here recently.
I dont think you do. Thats the problem conservatives have, they dont realise who they dealing with. Some of you say that Liberals are in the cult, but you cant quite grasp implications of that. Most of conservatives seems to still believe that there is some gap to bridge/common ground. There isnt. There is not a single social issue they are willing to cede ground on, more so, even if you grant them all they ask for, they will come back with new demands.
When that bridge is "just accept you are inferior or your identity is wrong and lesser" that's not much of a bridge, that's a pirate ship plank.
EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZ9LvuDWAAEz4E0.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://imgur.com/Cnmws6E.png)
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