EPTOn September 26 2025 08:30 Phyanketto wrote:
So the only reason I have any doubt about these things or consider them conspiracies is because the really quick release of really questionable evidence that is just so straightforward and ideologically convenient that it boggles the mind. I think the people trying to say these shooters are right wing is pretty braindead, though. They were probably right wing at one point, and then changed their politics due to the realities they were seeing around them. It's also possible these people are just pushing back against whoever they perceive to be in power at any given time, you know, like libertarians always do.
When that bridge is "just accept you are inferior or your identity is wrong and lesser" that's not much of a bridge, that's a pirate ship plank.
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2025 07:30 Introvert wrote:
I would say FBI offices are not partisan places, but then again I lived through Russiagate.
The only sign people were trying to point to was that the shooter hit detainees. Now that we know why, and we have a bunch of other evidence, the already incredibly far-fetched theory that it's a setup is even more rediculous. And during the first hours of the Kirk investigation there were leaks, and now we have way more info into his motive, showing that indeed the most likely explanation was the correct one. In this case now as well, he left a note and the bullets. What's remarkable is this guy is screaming to the world why he did it and that fact will presumably be used as evidence it's fake. People are sacrificing more and more of their rational faculties to try and pin bad things on their opponents. Your penultimate sentence is assuming the conclusion.
By the way this is what is wrong with so many of these violence studies. If you try hard enough, you can take any sort of facts and categorize them as you wish. Kirk murder, ICE attack, not political! Gunman who killed people in MN for seemingly personal reasons=right-wing violence. And it's not about the volume entirely. The difference is that everyone here can condemn when some right-wing freak kills someone, but it's like pulling teeth trying to go the other way.
I suggest people stop tying themselves into intellectual knots attached to an ever descending anchor deeper into the echo chamber. If you are at the point where you think the FBI might have set this up then you made many a mistake in getting to this point.
On September 26 2025 04:19 ChristianS wrote:
Seems like a predictable consequence of making the criminal justice system an explicitly partisan institution, no?
For like a decade now the standard profile of these shooters has been, basically, terminally online losers committing violence as an extreme form of shitposting. What little I’ve seen of this case seems consistent with that archetype. But didn’t these guys (in charge of the FBI now, fresh off careers as right-wing podcasters) try to tell us the last one had “transgender ideology” inscribed on the bullets? Meanwhile the administration they’re plainly partisan agents for tried to use it as a Reichstag fire-esque excuse to crack down on dissent? Why exactly should we take them at their word?
On September 26 2025 01:13 Introvert wrote:
Let me clarify. The belief that the ICE shooting was a false flag operation is a conspiracy theory.
On September 26 2025 00:51 Magic Powers wrote:
You're thinking of a conspiracy. False flag is false identification, e.g. as a disguise or redirection of blame.
On September 25 2025 22:09 Introvert wrote:
I like the thread dichotomy between "the fascists deserve it and whst did they expect?" with "these recent shootings are actually right-wing." I understand why they don't like the bullets though, it makes it harder to pin an event on their preferred target in the immediate aftermath. Meanwhile we are to assume that since he shot into a van he couldn't see into and hit people he didnt intend, it's a false flag. A very devoted one, since the shooter killed himself after, as you said. But maybe Luigi was a false flag, after all the person he killed was head of a company that didnt do anything to him. And no one pushed back on this as of yet. Really losing it in here recently.
On September 25 2025 19:37 oBlade wrote:
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
On September 25 2025 18:37 MJG wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3wo
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3wo
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote:
So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
I like the thread dichotomy between "the fascists deserve it and whst did they expect?" with "these recent shootings are actually right-wing." I understand why they don't like the bullets though, it makes it harder to pin an event on their preferred target in the immediate aftermath. Meanwhile we are to assume that since he shot into a van he couldn't see into and hit people he didnt intend, it's a false flag. A very devoted one, since the shooter killed himself after, as you said. But maybe Luigi was a false flag, after all the person he killed was head of a company that didnt do anything to him. And no one pushed back on this as of yet. Really losing it in here recently.
You're thinking of a conspiracy. False flag is false identification, e.g. as a disguise or redirection of blame.
Let me clarify. The belief that the ICE shooting was a false flag operation is a conspiracy theory.
Seems like a predictable consequence of making the criminal justice system an explicitly partisan institution, no?
For like a decade now the standard profile of these shooters has been, basically, terminally online losers committing violence as an extreme form of shitposting. What little I’ve seen of this case seems consistent with that archetype. But didn’t these guys (in charge of the FBI now, fresh off careers as right-wing podcasters) try to tell us the last one had “transgender ideology” inscribed on the bullets? Meanwhile the administration they’re plainly partisan agents for tried to use it as a Reichstag fire-esque excuse to crack down on dissent? Why exactly should we take them at their word?
I would say FBI offices are not partisan places, but then again I lived through Russiagate.
The only sign people were trying to point to was that the shooter hit detainees. Now that we know why, and we have a bunch of other evidence, the already incredibly far-fetched theory that it's a setup is even more rediculous. And during the first hours of the Kirk investigation there were leaks, and now we have way more info into his motive, showing that indeed the most likely explanation was the correct one. In this case now as well, he left a note and the bullets. What's remarkable is this guy is screaming to the world why he did it and that fact will presumably be used as evidence it's fake. People are sacrificing more and more of their rational faculties to try and pin bad things on their opponents. Your penultimate sentence is assuming the conclusion.
By the way this is what is wrong with so many of these violence studies. If you try hard enough, you can take any sort of facts and categorize them as you wish. Kirk murder, ICE attack, not political! Gunman who killed people in MN for seemingly personal reasons=right-wing violence. And it's not about the volume entirely. The difference is that everyone here can condemn when some right-wing freak kills someone, but it's like pulling teeth trying to go the other way.
I suggest people stop tying themselves into intellectual knots attached to an ever descending anchor deeper into the echo chamber. If you are at the point where you think the FBI might have set this up then you made many a mistake in getting to this point.
So the only reason I have any doubt about these things or consider them conspiracies is because the really quick release of really questionable evidence that is just so straightforward and ideologically convenient that it boggles the mind. I think the people trying to say these shooters are right wing is pretty braindead, though. They were probably right wing at one point, and then changed their politics due to the realities they were seeing around them. It's also possible these people are just pushing back against whoever they perceive to be in power at any given time, you know, like libertarians always do.
Show nested quote +
On September 26 2025 08:27 Razyda wrote:
I dont think you do. Thats the problem conservatives have, they dont realise who they dealing with. Some of you say that Liberals are in the cult, but you cant quite grasp implications of that. Most of conservatives seems to still believe that there is some gap to bridge/common ground. There isnt. There is not a single social issue they are willing to cede ground on, more so, even if you grant them all they ask for, they will come back with new demands.
On September 25 2025 22:09 Introvert wrote:
I like the thread dichotomy between "the fascists deserve it and whst did they expect?" with "these recent shootings are actually right-wing." I understand why they don't like the bullets though, it makes it harder to pin an event on their preferred target in the immediate aftermath. Meanwhile we are to assume that since he shot into a van he couldn't see into and hit people he didnt intend, it's a false flag. A very devoted one, since the shooter killed himself after, as you said. But maybe Luigi was a false flag, after all the person he killed was head of a company that didnt do anything to him. And no one pushed back on this as of yet. Really losing it in here recently.
On September 25 2025 19:37 oBlade wrote:
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
On September 25 2025 18:37 MJG wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3wo
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y4de02x3wo
Is it a realistic possibility that the US Government is going to go into shut down, or will the Democrats fold?
This seems like the kind of tactic that the Republicans have been perfectly happy to use to get their way when a Democrat has been in the White House, but that Democrats are unwilling to use when a Republican is in the White House.
Democrats caused the longest shutdown ever in Trump's first term.
You probably don't remember because it's the government, so nobody noticed they stopped doing nothing.
On September 25 2025 13:52 Phyanketto wrote:
So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
So how we feeling on the ice shooter? The fact that "anti-ice" was written on the casings is pretty braindead. He attacked a facility and only killed detainees, but all the news and government talking heads are speaking like ice agents themselves were the ones injured and killed. Prima facie idiocy, even. Luigi really did a number on these people that every staged event now has bullets with writing on them, and they keep getting dumber and dumber.
Kash can't even stage a false flag right. I'm not the only one who thinks that's what this is right? Eventually they're going to find the shooter was trans or something, mark my words, because they can't stop themselves from double dipping every time.
ICE was obviously the target.
There is no contingent of people who are mad at ICE for detaining and deporting people instead of executing them, who would write "FUCK ICE" on bullets, snipe carefully at an ICE facility avoiding killing the hero ICE agents that the shooter is mad aren't doing what they're supposed to which is kill, and then commit suicide, rather than just shooting all the brown people he sees, like the guy in El Paso did. It doesn't make a lick of sense.
The government can write on a shell casing with a marker, sure, anyone could do that. But they can't find someone to do a mission like that and shoot themselves, they can't find someone they would trust not to expose the conspiracy, and they can't find someone who they could promise wouldn't get caught or shot and believe it, after every single other person has been caught or shot.
I like the thread dichotomy between "the fascists deserve it and whst did they expect?" with "these recent shootings are actually right-wing." I understand why they don't like the bullets though, it makes it harder to pin an event on their preferred target in the immediate aftermath. Meanwhile we are to assume that since he shot into a van he couldn't see into and hit people he didnt intend, it's a false flag. A very devoted one, since the shooter killed himself after, as you said. But maybe Luigi was a false flag, after all the person he killed was head of a company that didnt do anything to him. And no one pushed back on this as of yet. Really losing it in here recently.
I dont think you do. Thats the problem conservatives have, they dont realise who they dealing with. Some of you say that Liberals are in the cult, but you cant quite grasp implications of that. Most of conservatives seems to still believe that there is some gap to bridge/common ground. There isnt. There is not a single social issue they are willing to cede ground on, more so, even if you grant them all they ask for, they will come back with new demands.
When that bridge is "just accept you are inferior or your identity is wrong and lesser" that's not much of a bridge, that's a pirate ship plank.
Why do you think that the people lableing these shooters as rightwing are brain-dead? I admit the leaks recently of the shells being engraved before being shown pictures of a sharpie as well as the previous one of kirks shooter that was also bunk is suspicious.
Yes I agree when right wingers deny that there can be transgender people, that gay people don't deserve rights, that immigrants are human beings, that democrats are vermin, that is a pirate ship plank onto violence. When you say that gun violence is acceptable for the 2nd Amendment and that empathy is bad you can't act surprised that people act on that.
