What do the pros earn and how? - Page 16

On May 04 2011 22:40 Steven.Bonnell.II wrote:
I wish people were mature enough to handle this kind of discussion, but I've seen how people across these intarwebz act, and I feel like players releasing a whole bunch of personal information about earnings could lead to a lot of bickering/arguing.

That being said, I personally think that in a group full of mature members, conversations about salaries and the flow of money could be healthy, and maybe even necessary in some cases.

Ack, I was going to write out a whole bunch of examples where understanding where all the money is being distributed would generate a lot of interesting/insightful discussion, but I'm far too tired for that.

That being said, I'm a very big proponent of high transparency, and I think that if people feel confident/good about what they're doing, there shouldn't be any problems with discussing your salary. Others feel uncomfortable, though, so, to each their own.

For JTV streams, I'm pretty sure the figure is 0.2 cents per ad per viewer ($0.002/ad/viewer), and people who are using ad-block (or people in certain countries, for some reason) don't count towards that figure. For people who are interested, here's a clip of my last month's earnings -



Unfortunately, from the 22nd to the 27th there was an error with reporting ad revenue so for some reason the entire day pretty much didn't write correctly, but otherwise, I think that provides a decent estimate of what someone can make streaming. That being said, I stream for quite a few hours at a time, and I can hold ~3k viewers. You could still make a decent amount of money (far more than what I used to think possible) with even 500 viewers for 6 hours a day. Even a few hundred dollars a month is more money than most people would ever think possible from streaming.

I can try to answer any questions, but I don't know specifics in terms of contracts from other people or teams, so it's hard to say what salaries are like.

On May 30 2011 10:49 KimJongChill wrote:


Mad props steven, I've always been a big fan of your stream and gameplay, but you also have some insightful things to say :3

On May 16 2011 03:57 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Didn't DarkForce get a lapdance as part of his prize at some LAN in Germany?

On May 08 2011 05:22 Xeris wrote:
Several things:

1) Prize money isn't as much as people make it out to be. There are pretty significant taxes in a lot of countries (at least in USA / Canada) on tournament winnings. For example, Canada taxes 35%... most teams take some percentage of prize winning as well (I think a standard is 15-20%). So basically, any tournament winnings has to be cut almost in half from the stated amount.

2) There are very few teams who can even afford to pay significant salaries to players... this is an infant industry really and it's a slow process trying to monetize this. Individuals have found a nice way to monetize this game (through streaming and coaching, and some individual sponsor plugging)... but so far the actual teams/oranizations themselves have had a tough time realizing an actual profit from this. EG and Liquid (this is just my opinion) -- seem to be the only teams that have found a good way to actually benefit financially (see all the new sponsor announcements from these teams!)

3) It takes a LOT of time/effort to make money from this game. If you look at people like Husky/Day9/incontrol/Idra/even Destiny -- it took them a long time to start actually making money. I mean, Idra wasn't getting anything from being a pro initially, and all the money he made was purely tournament winnings. Husky worked his ass off and didn't start making money for a long time. Now that they are making money, these guys are still working non-stop at it. It isn't this idealistic thing where money magically comes to you - Starcraft (if you're serious about it the way the above mentioned guys are) is actually a lot of work!

4) Personally -- I've been involved with Starcraft since it came out. I've been an "admin" since 2004. I joined the WGTour admin staff and ran the clan league and nation wars. I started running US tournaments (War of the States in 2006 was my first individual project). I founded BWUSA.org and created the Yankee League. I ran a 128 team tournament by myself, I put my own cash to fly to events and give some money to tournaments I ran. I didn't make a single dollar from Starcraft until late 2008, where I think if I remember correctly I made a few hundred bucks (which covered what I put in from my own pocket which was neat). It wasn't until 2010 that I actually earned a salary (so basically ~~5 years of working in the community to get to the position I'm at). And even then, I'm not making enough to live comfortably off of right now.

Obviously my case is a little different, since I started in the Brood War days and there was no money there; players would join a team for $50 per month, and the highest paid non Korean players were getting about $350 per month (this was back in 06-08). So someone expecting to start making money (I'm talking about from a more administrative perspective rather than as a player) obviously won't have to work 5 years for free like I did, but it still isn't something that's going to come about instantaneously (think about Wolf for example... I'm not sure but I think he's earning a bit of a salary now, but it took him ~1 year to get to this point with FXO).

I would also say that approaching this scene/community/game with the intention of making money from it is the wrong angle. I don't think you should look to justify your time investment by looking at the salary of the top people in the community. I think you should justify it instead by saying "I LOVE Starcraft, and I'm just going to keep doing what I can to contribute". If you're consistent enough (Day9 got to where he is because he was the only person who was producing regular, daily content) and good at what you do, financial success will follow. It's like that in every other aspect of life, and it's like that for Starcraft too!

I'm very happy to know that the game I started playing with my cousin when I was 10 years old is still a big part of my life, and that I've done a lot to help give back to the community that I love, and that on top of it all, I'm finally able to make some money on it to help pay for my education.

Anyway: random factoids:

- The biggest streamers (I.E. guys like Destiny) will probably make somewhere between 3-5k per month if they're streaming a lot

- A lot of players who I know of that do coaching, coach quite a bit and it's something like a regular job for them, and I'd probably roughly assume some averages (5 hours per day, 6 days per week of coaching at an average rate of $35/hour) that the upper tier (not top top tier such as Idra or iNcontroL) coaches can earn about $4k/month

- Most famous players (excluding Korea, obviously) are probably earning something in the range of $2k/2.5k per month

- 2nd tier (I.E. other top tier players) will be making something along the lines of $800-$1.5k per month

- 3rd tier players will be making around $300-$600 per month

- I don't really have any info on players from the less sponsored/smaller teams: however I'd assume salaries of $100-$200 and LAN support.

Standard deals from every notable sponsored teams include: free hardware, free LAN trips (paying for flights + hotels + some meal expense + taxi to/from airport hotels, etc). Teams are also supportive of the 'pro houses' and will subsidize expenses (generally speaking).

- Big name casters also get pretty good money, although I don't have any idea about rates casters get paid or anything (I have very little information here so I won't comment on it because it would be too speculative).

Hope people found this informative. If anyone has questions about my career, or anyone looking to go down the path of an "admin" (more general questions) I'd be happy to answer. I won't answer any specific questions (I.E. about specific players, specific figures, etc). Anyway that's my piece.

On May 30 2011 10:49 KimJongChill wrote:


Mad props steven, I've always been a big fan of your stream and gameplay, but you also have some insightful things to say :3

On June 11 2011 13:04 Grampz wrote:

haha damn 4 g's a month for letting people watch you play starcraft. so awesome !

On June 11 2011 13:54 Shooks wrote:
Programing isn't about the money, lol @ people that care so much.

On June 11 2011 13:04 Grampz wrote:

haha damn 4 g's a month for letting people watch you play starcraft. so awesome !

On June 11 2011 13:54 Shooks wrote:
Programing isn't about the money, lol @ people that care so much.

On May 03 2011 08:40 hmunkey wrote:

Still off. Ads pay by the viewer count of those not using Adblock and within specific, targeted regions.

On June 11 2011 13:54 Shooks wrote:
Programing isn't about the money, lol @ people that care so much.

On June 11 2011 14:16 IPA wrote:


You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Of course it's partially about the love of the game; however, it's childish to say that professional players don't do it for the money. It is their job, their livelihood. Pro gamers are pragmatic by necessity. It's a strange, growing professional field but it certainly isn't the most rock solid of careers (yet). Your statement makes you sound like a 16 year old kid living at home -- maybe you are, and there's nothing wrong with that. I would wager that earning a living is near the top of pro gamers' priorities along with glory, competitive satisfaction, etc.

On June 11 2011 15:29 Duravi wrote:
Jobs involve working for either a set number of hours or satisfying a condition (salary). Right now the SC2 western scene has a lot of players who aren't regulated in either of these ways but still being paid. Most of the shit going on in SC2 foreigner teams would never fly in pro-sports(Europe or US) or korean BW, when that changes we will really see an explosion of the scene.

I love ESPORTS but throughout my life I have known 3 people who are now professional athletes in three different areas (Serie A, NFL, and NBA) and their dedication to training is much larger than any foreigner SC2 player I have heard of. This makes it difficult for me to take seriously these pros that spend less than ~40 hours a week training. I enjoy SC2 but if you want to have people take it seriously you need to stop with the casting x hours a week, streaming x hours a week, and coaching x hours a week and actually take your job as a pro seriously.