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The explosion of big prize pool tourneys is great for esports, but it doesn't look like there is enough tournament money for a lot of top players to live on (only about the top 10 seem to make a living on prize money). What else do the top players earn from?
Note: I'm pretty sure they aren't earning as much as they should. For the amount of entertainment they are providing us, I'd like to see these guys get paid like pro athletes --- the people running & casting TL, NASL, etc., should also be getting paid a living. Is it happening yet? If not, I hope it happens soon.
Does anybody know what pro gamers make from:
1. Team sponsorship
2. Coaching
3. Show matches/appearance fees
4. Live streaming
I'm particularly interested in #4. I'm really enjoying various SC2 live streams and I'm hoping every time I sit through a commercial, somebody is getting paid at least a little bit. Are they paid by the # of viewers? What's a 3k viewer commercial earn somebody?
I'm guessing #1 isn't made public and #2 varies a lot by player (being good at coaching and playing isn't even the same thing). Is anybody making money off endorsements? Maybe in Korea?
Looking forward to the day we see pro SC2 gamers rolling with bling and posses instead of living in dorms 8 to a room. 
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I think it depends who you are ... I think in NA Idra is making quite a bit more than the others... he gets like 8,000 viewers every time he streams and charges like 300$ for coaching because his lessons are in high demand. I'm pretty sure sponsors are the #1 reason they make a living though.
I'm pretty sure if you dont block the ads yes they are making a little bit of money from you sitting through them.
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Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works.
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good pros: 50k-100k a year
normal pros 30-50k a year
north american pros : as much as mcdonalds pays, or less.
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On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works.
No... I'm almost sure it's for views. Why streamers tell people to turn off their ad blocker if it wasn't the VIEWS that earned money? Someone who takes the time to install an ad blocker isn't going to click on an ad anyways. And someone could just click on an ad 10000000 times to get money. Money per viewer makes more sense.
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This is a great site. But look how quick the money drops off. By #20, it's only $15,500, which isn't really livable.
But I think in tourney sports that's not uncommon. Not that many golfers make that much in prize money per year either, they make it on endorsements.
But live streaming is a cool game-only thing. If they get 1 penny per viewer per ad, a 3k viewer commercial is worth $30 and you can earn a bit. If it's .1 cents per viewer per ad, that's only $3 and it's barely going to pay for beer. I wonder.
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that site doesnt include salaries just fyi
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On May 03 2011 08:16 Holcan wrote:
good pros: 50k-100k a year
normal pros 30-50k a year
north american pros : as much as mcdonalds pays, or less.
Quit talking out of your ass, you have zero clue.
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I think the amount of money so far is quite impressive, but I really think none of it should be thought of as an end-goal. There aren't many other "professions" where people at the absolute top earn so little.
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there were a bunch of personal sponsorship announcments before MLG dallas like TLO and Kiwikaki and root getting sponsors like dr pepper and aw root beer and such, those probably get the players a significant amount of money
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On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works.
Negative. Ad's pay by viewer count.
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On May 03 2011 08:39 jester- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works. Negative. Ad's pay by viewer count.
Still off. Ads pay by the viewer count of those not using Adblock and within specific, targeted regions.
On May 03 2011 08:36 rickybobby wrote:
there were a bunch of personal sponsorship announcments before MLG dallas like TLO and Kiwikaki and root getting sponsors like dr pepper and aw root beer and such, those probably get the players a significant amount of money
It's doubtful any of those sponsorships are worth more than a few $1000 if even, but if a player wants to come out and disprove me please do.
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There are currently 9 players playing for the TSL as of now. The two highest paid players will be Kim Won Ki AKA TSL.FruitDealer and Seo Ki Soo AKA TSL.Trickster, with 35,000,000 KRW (around 31,000 US$) and 30,000,000 KRW (around 27,000 US$) a year respectively.
Source
Thats a korean team mind you.
Destiny had an AMA where he mentioned what he got from different places.
At the moment I make about $3.5/month from the ad revenue I receive, then I make ~$1.5/month from lessons. Hopefully once my youtube channel is partnered I can generate some more money from that. There's also the occasional showmatch win/tourney placing, but those don't generate too much.
Source
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On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works.
I always click TV, magazine and billboard advertising. It's how all advertising works.
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On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works.
There are 2 different forms of advertising (as par your example). Pay for each click, (CPC), and Pay for each Impression. Per impression is a lot cheaper form of advertising and works for most products and services (what non-internet companies use). I would say this is the most common form of ads seen on justin tv (pizza ads, product placement, etc).
Paying per click is mainly for internet busniess, and the market is much larger and easier to access (you have to go out to visit a store, but can just click online), thus, many large companies that offer services and products on the outside world will go for the impressions, and not clicks.
Im 90% sure that the "commercials" are per impression, meaning, if you have adblock off, you will basically be giving X amount to the person, regardless if you click or not.
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On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works.
Not true. I have heard on multiple streams that the streamer gets .2 cents per viewer per commercial. This could be wrong, but I have heard it from multiple mods and admins on stream. this means $2 per 1000 viewers per commercial. so a stream with 5k viewers with 4 commercials an hour can make $40 an hour. Once again this is merely what I've heard from different sources.
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On May 03 2011 08:44 hellsan631 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works. There are 2 different forms of advertising (as par your example). Pay for each click, (CPC), and Pay for each Impression. Per impression is a lot cheaper form of advertising and works for most products and services (what non-internet companies use). I would say this is the most common form of ads seen on justin tv (pizza ads, product placement, etc). Paying per click is mainly for internet busniess, and the market is much larger and easier to access (you have to go out to visit a store, but can just click online), thus, many large companies that offer services and products on the outside world will go for the impressions, and not clicks. Im 90% sure that the "commercials" are per impression, meaning, if you have adblock off, you will basically be giving X amount to the person, regardless if you click or not.
The first informed reply to my post. I see the Justin.tv ads as very similar to YouTube ads and I know that YouTube ads are PPC, as that's how Google Adsense works. I would assume that Justin.tv uses the same model, however I may be wrong.
On May 03 2011 08:18 seffer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works. No... I'm almost sure it's for views. Why streamers tell people to turn off their ad blocker if it wasn't the VIEWS that earned money? Someone who takes the time to install an ad blocker isn't going to click on an ad anyways. And someone could just click on an ad 10000000 times to get money. Money per viewer makes more sense.
Deactivating the ad blocker also increases the chance for clicks if the ad is relevant. And of course all online advertising tracks IPs so that you cannot click one ad several times - the only revenue is generated by unique clicks.
Also, yes you can come up with a eCPM (Effective Cost Per Mille) for the ad revenue generated from 1,000 views but that's just used to predict revenue, that's not the actual revenue. The actual revenue comes from the clicks. eCPM is simply the average money earned per thousand views.
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On May 03 2011 09:16 CrazyCow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 08:44 hellsan631 wrote:On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works. There are 2 different forms of advertising (as par your example). Pay for each click, (CPC), and Pay for each Impression. Per impression is a lot cheaper form of advertising and works for most products and services (what non-internet companies use). I would say this is the most common form of ads seen on justin tv (pizza ads, product placement, etc). Paying per click is mainly for internet busniess, and the market is much larger and easier to access (you have to go out to visit a store, but can just click online), thus, many large companies that offer services and products on the outside world will go for the impressions, and not clicks. Im 90% sure that the "commercials" are per impression, meaning, if you have adblock off, you will basically be giving X amount to the person, regardless if you click or not. The first informed reply to my post. I see the Justin.tv ads as very similar to YouTube ads and I know that YouTube ads are PPC, as that's how Google Adsense works. I would assume that Justin.tv uses the same model, however I may be wrong. Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 08:18 seffer wrote:On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works. No... I'm almost sure it's for views. Why streamers tell people to turn off their ad blocker if it wasn't the VIEWS that earned money? Someone who takes the time to install an ad blocker isn't going to click on an ad anyways. And someone could just click on an ad 10000000 times to get money. Money per viewer makes more sense. Deactivating the ad blocker also increases the chance for clicks if the ad is relevant. And of course all online advertising tracks IPs so that you cannot click one ad several times - the only revenue is generated by unique clicks. Also, yes you can come up with a eCPM (Effective Cost Per Mille) for the ad revenue generated from 1,000 views but that's just used to predict revenue, that's not the actual revenue. The actual revenue comes from the clicks. eCPM is simply the average money earned per thousand views.
You're wrong about YouTube ads as well. I know for a fact that all partnered channels get paid based upon views and not clicks, It's somewhere in the region of $2.50 per 1000 views.
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On May 03 2011 09:16 CrazyCow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 08:44 hellsan631 wrote:On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works. There are 2 different forms of advertising (as par your example). Pay for each click, (CPC), and Pay for each Impression. Per impression is a lot cheaper form of advertising and works for most products and services (what non-internet companies use). I would say this is the most common form of ads seen on justin tv (pizza ads, product placement, etc). Paying per click is mainly for internet busniess, and the market is much larger and easier to access (you have to go out to visit a store, but can just click online), thus, many large companies that offer services and products on the outside world will go for the impressions, and not clicks. Im 90% sure that the "commercials" are per impression, meaning, if you have adblock off, you will basically be giving X amount to the person, regardless if you click or not. The first informed reply to my post. I see the Justin.tv ads as very similar to YouTube ads and I know that YouTube ads are PPC, as that's how Google Adsense works. I would assume that Justin.tv uses the same model, however I may be wrong. Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 08:18 seffer wrote:On May 03 2011 08:14 CrazyCow wrote:
Do note though that they get money for ad clicks on their stream, not views. That's how almost all advertising works. No... I'm almost sure it's for views. Why streamers tell people to turn off their ad blocker if it wasn't the VIEWS that earned money? Someone who takes the time to install an ad blocker isn't going to click on an ad anyways. And someone could just click on an ad 10000000 times to get money. Money per viewer makes more sense. Deactivating the ad blocker also increases the chance for clicks if the ad is relevant. And of course all online advertising tracks IPs so that you cannot click one ad several times - the only revenue is generated by unique clicks. Also, yes you can come up with a eCPM (Effective Cost Per Mille) for the ad revenue generated from 1,000 views but that's just used to predict revenue, that's not the actual revenue. The actual revenue comes from the clicks. eCPM is simply the average money earned per thousand views.
How exactly is it the first informed reply to your post? Everyone has said the same thing; you're wrong in thinking that Justin.tv pays via ad clicks and not views/impressions.
If you actually watched a stream with ad blocker disabled, you'd see that when the streamer types /commercial it runs a commercial which, "...directly supports <insert streamer here>". It's not like it asks if I want a commercial then I click on play; the commercial plays and the streamer is credited based on the amount of people that watched the ad and where they live (It may not even play in non-targeted areas, I'm not sure).
If anything I'd say your posts are the least informed on the subject in this thread.
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EPT
