EPTBtw this might be off-topic but is Tyler currently really in (pre-)medschool. I thought he`d be a fulltime pro.
What do the pros earn and how? - Page 12
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Irrational_Animal
Germany1059 Posts
Btw this might be off-topic but is Tyler currently really in (pre-)medschool. I thought he`d be a fulltime pro. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On May 04 2011 08:16 Loooui wrote: You do not mention that the teams probably don´t want the salary to be public since it would increase the competition about the good players and therefore higher their wages. They force the players to not talk about it so that they can continue to pay relatively low salaries compared to the players market value. A player who breaks this rule could get "blacklisted" and kicked from the team. i dont think thats true at all. using everyones favourite gracken from under the sea, idra, lets make an example. EG pays idra 1 dollar a year to play, but hes under NDA to never reveal his wages. that still wouldnt realistically stop him from having a quiet word with tyler after sotg about how much liquid pays. liquid pays tyler 2 dollars to chill out, idra is outraged. doesnt renew his eg contract, lets another team pick him up. sure, no pro is going to reveal these NDA details in public, but you have to be crazy to think there isnt quiet mutterings and msn conversations about it between the pros themselves. i have no doubt that top level pros get paid quite a decent amount, especially if they are on a well backed team like EG. the idea that EG is in some tax evasion conspiracy is just as crazy. look at the companies that back EG. you think they want anything to do with an organisation that could tarnish their image with a story like that getting out? when their whole interest in EG is a pr exercise to begin with? tin foil hat time again :D | ||
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Loooui
Sweden348 Posts
On May 04 2011 08:29 turdburgler wrote: i dont think thats true at all. using everyones favourite gracken from under the sea, idra, lets make an example. EG pays idra 1 dollar a year to play, but hes under NDA to never reveal his wages. that still wouldnt realistically stop him from having a quiet word with tyler after sotg about how much liquid pays. liquid pays tyler 2 dollars to chill out, idra is outraged. doesnt renew his eg contract, lets another team pick him up. sure, no pro is going to reveal these NDA details in public, but you have to be crazy to think there isnt quiet mutterings and msn conversations about it between the pros themselves. i have no doubt that top level pros get paid quite a decent amount, especially if they are on a well backed team like EG. the idea that EG is in some tax evasion conspiracy is just as crazy. look at the companies that back EG. you think they want anything to do with an organisation that could tarnish their image with a story like that getting out? when their whole interest in EG is a pr exercise to begin with? tin foil hat time again :D I do not agree. Sure, these players might have a word with each other. Lets call them player x and player z. BUT how would player x proceed (x who is same skill level as player z) when he know that player z earns twice the salary he gets? It is not necessarily true that player x would get a higher salary if he quit his team. He would take a risk since other teams might be full and there are a lot of factors involved like team practise, management, atmosphere and friends in the team. It is not as simple as just leaving the team and automatically get a better offer since you know your friend got it. Would player x say that player z gets twice his salary to his team when the salary is supposed to be a secret and risk player z relation to player z team as they then know that he breaks their agreement about secrecy. If player x with this information only says that he wants a pay raise without having proof that player z earns twice as much on his team, then his claim is worth so much less. When the salaries are not made public this kind of gossip is just... gossip and the teams can decline the pay raise based on this. I would not call it a conspiracy, that is not really true. But making the salaries public would absolutely higher the average pro wages, and lead to a more competitive market. | ||
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mooshoo
United States37 Posts
On May 03 2011 17:18 IdrA wrote: 'sponsorship seeking' the people who actually found sponsors might have a better idea of what kind of money is there. Since this thread is all based off speculation on loose facts, I will continue the trend with my own speculation. Idra's response seems to be discrediting Holcan's analysis of how much a pro makes per year. My assumption is that Idra wouldn't imply Holcan is wrong about his estimate of salaries if pros were actually making less than the estimated salaries because that is just self deprecating. Thus, I am concluding that pro SCII gamers actually make more than the estimates of Holcan. The part that I think that was most unlikely about Holcan's estimates is that NA pros make the same or less than what people make at Mcdonalds. That's just bullshit. | ||
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
On May 04 2011 09:30 mooshoo wrote: Since this thread is all based off speculation on loose facts, I will continue the trend with my own speculation. Idra's response seems to be discrediting Holcan's analysis of how much a pro makes per year. My assumption is that Idra wouldn't imply Holcan is wrong about his estimate of salaries if pros were actually making less than the estimated salaries because that is just self deprecating. Thus, I am concluding that pro SCII gamers actually make more than the estimates of Holcan. The part that I think that was most unlikely about Holcan's estimates is that NA pros make the same or less than what people make at Mcdonalds. That's just bullshit. 12-18k a year is bullshit? how much do you think people deserve to play video games? Like honestly? Do you think Axslav should get 1k a a month for what he does, plus travelling fees? How about ROOT Gaming that doesnt even have sponsors and pay travel fees out of their own pocket? Its not bullshit, sorry for putting a realistic perspective on the scenario. If you worked a full time job at mcdonalds, you would be making the same, if not more money than the average north american pro gamer. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
(1) Online Marketing is an extremely deep and complicated field. Some people here have attempted to transmit some of the basic ideas like Pay Per Click [PPC], Cost Per Million [CPM], Impression Sharing, etc, etc ... These are basic metrics and methods used to communicate relationships in the online marketing world. Each platform will speak this same language but have different, sometimes vastly different, integration and payment models. There is no real sense in speculating. The cold hard truth is that if you have a product that creates mass interest, such as a daily stream that gets thousands of viewers, there are ways you can monetize that. The savvy will find ways to maximize the monetary value of this interest, others will use various content farms and get paid a fraction of what the interest is actually worth. This is not just for the gaming community, but virtually all communities that are generating content. (2) Be happy loving the idea of the dream. You love the game, you love the heroes you support, and heck, maybe you're even a Master level player where it is conceivable that you could go pro one day. But, whether you're a SC2 Master, or master guitar player, or whatever, the competition is super, super steep and skill is not the only prerequisite. In my experience it is often better to love the idea of the dream more than actually thinking it could become a reality. Now, let me stop you there for a second if you're still reading; I'm not saying don't follow your dreams. This section does not apply to the people who will make it. Why do I know that? Because the people that make it just do it. They make it happen. Most people don't realize that once you go pro it is no longer a leisure activity. It is no longer "something you do for fun." It is a job, and you're not the boss. When you load up the game, you are working. This idea has many parallels in the world of musicians. You can sell out local pubs by selling tickets to some friends, printing a few flyers, and it is amazing. You're on top of the world. But you're not a rock star and probably will not become one. I guess what I'm trying to communicate, and probably not doing so very well, is that the sheer quantity of determination, sacrifice, work, resources, connections, and luck involved in going pro in the sports or entertainment world is typically beyond that of those with stars in their eyes. So, don't get to caught up in that. Do it for why you're good at it. All that being said; If you want to do it, just do it. Make it happen. Be prepared to put in the work, quite your job, leave your girlfriend, move to a different part of the world. But, don't just kinda do it, give it everything you have. But if you're kinda in between, just continue having fun and living life.  | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
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Empyrean
16945 Posts
On May 04 2011 08:24 Irrational_Animal wrote: Nevertheless the Pros should have a good grip on what they can demand. In an interview Hasuobs mentioned that he pretty much knows the salary for every EPS-player except for TLO. I guess it is common sense that Pros talk about stuff like that in private. Btw this might be off-topic but is Tyler currently really in (pre-)medschool. I thought he`d be a fulltime pro. No. His wife is in medical school. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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l90 Proof
64 Posts
Sorry but I thought that some of the early animosity in this thread was totally out of line. Some points posters have made are obvious: income varies between player, is wildly variable, hard to estimate, etc... but the underlying theme of this thread is great. Net takeaway that I have is that unless you have the talent/time/connections to make it to the very top, putting all your eggs in the starcraft income basket could be risky. | ||
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David451
United States491 Posts
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On May 04 2011 08:13 turdburgler wrote: not sure how to phrase this without sounding like a dick. but if you practiced 10 hours a day you could be worldgosu protoss and make the huge moneys, especially if sc2 keeps getting bigger. obviously if you keep going to school you arent putting all your eggs in the 1 basket, but i cant imagine you getting great grades if you play this much sc2, but you dont play enough to be the worlds greatest either. if you love gaming its worth putting in the longer hours because it will also payout more? i heard day9 made all his big bucks while he played, and now is poorer than ever. just like all those sports pros who never go into coaching / punditry after... i don't think even anyone playing 10 hours / day can just win everything and make huge money, you can't be consistant enough to win every tournament, there is variance in SC2 you can get super unlucky in ur group/bracket draws for a whole year making it a lot harder (a bit like how incontrol got 4th with all the good players there) I doubt pros rely on tourney wins all that much to make money, cuz that's really very little money for the whole pool of pros | ||
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ROOTFayth
Canada3351 Posts
On May 04 2011 16:02 David451 wrote: If you're thinking pro-gaming is a good way to make money, newsflash, unless you're the best of the best, you're going to be living in your parents' basement. some can probably share an appartment | ||
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Minigun
619 Posts
On May 04 2011 16:02 David451 wrote: If you're thinking pro-gaming is a good way to make money, newsflash, unless you're the best of the best, you're going to be living in your parents' basement. Ignorance like this is entertaining. People don't understand how many people actually get coaching. Coaching is like 99% of my salary, and I do quite a bit of it. And by quite a bit I mean quite a bit. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On May 04 2011 16:27 Minigun wrote: Ignorance like this is entertaining. People don't understand how many people actually get coaching. Coaching is like 99% of my salary, and I do quite a bit of it. And by quite a bit I mean quite a bit. Yeah, this is how all the pros in WoW made money as well, selling rating/gear and playing other's chars for them. I remember some guy was payed like 80k a year from some prince somewhere to get him the gladiator titles. Prize money is not where the money is at for the most part, it's in the other things. | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
How much you make from live streaming is extremely dependant on how many viewers you get, how often/long you stream, from where the viewers are, how many commercials you play etc etc. so there will be huge differences between "pros" here too. Maybe this is different in other countries, but in germany its pretty rude to ask someone how much he makes, unless you know him very well, and even then its kinda meh. On May 04 2011 07:44 FatkiddsLag wrote: could a progamer at least shed some light on how much of the prize money from a major event goes to them and how much of it goes to the team? Such as MLG, GSL, TSL ect. and major teams like Liquid, EG, Dignitas, ect. This differs from team to team.. so there is no general answer to this. Even inside a team there can be different contracts, where one player can keep all the prizemoney, and another has to give some to the team. In my team (Alternate) we can keep all the prizemoney, but i know of teams where this isnt the case. No clue whether this is common knowledge, though. Anyway, overall there are huge differences in income between the players, and pretty big variance over time for a single player, depending on his performance/luck and other factors. | ||
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BluePanther
United States2776 Posts
On May 04 2011 17:02 DarKFoRcE wrote: From what i know, pretty much all contracts have a non disclose agreement in them, so no pro will tell you publicly how much he gets from his team. How much you make from live streaming is extremely dependant on how many viewers you get, how often/long you stream, from where the viewers are, how many commercials you play etc etc. so there will be huge differences between "pros" here too. Maybe this is different in other countries, but in germany its pretty rude to ask someone how much he makes, unless you know him very well, and even then its kinda meh. This differs from team to team.. so there is no general answer to this. Even inside a team there can be different contracts, where one player can keep all the prizemoney, and another has to give some to the team. In my team (Alternate) we can keep all the prizemoney, but i know of teams where this isnt the case. No clue whether this is common knowledge, though. It's not exactly bad manners to ask for ranges for particular jobs, at least around where I'm from. Although to expect a particular salary would be bad taste, and you're not going to get much more than "i do well for myself, someone in my job makes 50-70k, etc." it's really only bad taste to talk about this type of stuff with coworkers. | ||
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DarKFoRcE
Germany1215 Posts
On May 04 2011 17:09 BluePanther wrote: It's not exactly bad manners to ask for ranges for particular jobs, at least around where I'm from. Although to expect a particular salary would be bad taste, and you're not going to get much more than "i do well for myself, someone in my job makes 50-70k, etc." it's really only bad taste to talk about this type of stuff with coworkers. Well ok, as i said, i think there are actually quite large differences between cultures when it comes to this... what might be acceptable in the US might not be in another country. | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
On May 04 2011 16:27 Minigun wrote: Ignorance like this is entertaining. People don't understand how many people actually get coaching. Coaching is like 99% of my salary, and I do quite a bit of it. And by quite a bit I mean quite a bit. Ya this is how pro's should/do make their real consistant money. Tournaments are simply a means to show people that they are worth the money you are paying them. Minigun isn't even a fraction of what some pro's charge for lessons, and even he gets 40$ an hour. Some1 tell me a job that pays you 40$ an hour without a college degree? Not saying he doesnt have one... he might idk. But my point is most of these players (for sure i at least know iNcontroL is) are booked for entire months in advance. If minigun just gives 2 hours of lessons per day (and they most likely do more than that when they do lessons. tho i know they usually are all crammed into a weekend or on weeknights. But even then he only needs to do 20 hours of lessons a week to make over $40,000 a year not including sponsorship money, salary money (if they get it), tournament winnings, etc. They make enough to do what they love. They make enough to be able to play SC2 24-7 and not have to worry about school/work and can still afford their lifestyle. Are players becoming millionaires off of SC2 ? No. Is it the greatest amount of money possible, for 90% of the players, no. They would make more getting their degree and getting a boring office job.... but they are getting paid to fucking play SC2... It just comes down to what lifestyle you choose. I wouldn't worry about their finances tbh. (n2m when your a 20 yr old bachelor u can split an apartment with 3 teammates and you are only spending 1000 a month MAX on rent/bills per person which is EASY to cover with lessons. and with streams giving revenue for viewers... you dont even have to be talented at SC2 to make some spending money off of that... you just have to convince people that are talented to hang out with you.. *cough JP *cough | ||
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