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On May 04 2011 16:27 Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 16:02 David451 wrote:
If you're thinking pro-gaming is a good way to make money, newsflash, unless you're the best of the best, you're going to be living in your parents' basement. Ignorance like this is entertaining. People don't understand how many people actually get coaching. Coaching is like 99% of my salary, and I do quite a bit of it. And by quite a bit I mean quite a bit.
Arent you on team ROOT, one of the best teams in the world? Yeah...
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On May 04 2011 19:12 David451 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 16:27 Minigun wrote:On May 04 2011 16:02 David451 wrote:
If you're thinking pro-gaming is a good way to make money, newsflash, unless you're the best of the best, you're going to be living in your parents' basement. Ignorance like this is entertaining. People don't understand how many people actually get coaching. Coaching is like 99% of my salary, and I do quite a bit of it. And by quite a bit I mean quite a bit. Arent you on team ROOT, one of the best teams in the world? Yeah...
I find it quite interesting that people can pay 40$ for lessons and some up to $150 (IDRA?)
Hmmm a lot of things you don't need IdrA to teach - like basic micro and macro...
Also just watch Brood War replays (you learn heaps trust me), watch SCII pro replays and take some notes with a notebook, learn to use the pause button and see what people are doing... note it down... create a poster for each MU and put on it a timescale, then write down all the timings. If you have a good friend, you two can both learn builds and try timing attacks against each other, work out strats. Ofcourse your average joe would never do all of the above (I certainly don't), but it'll save you a lot of money :p
That said, asking a pro to teach you is like a more time-efficient way and your learning curve is a lot steeper.
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On May 04 2011 19:12 David451 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 16:27 Minigun wrote:On May 04 2011 16:02 David451 wrote:
If you're thinking pro-gaming is a good way to make money, newsflash, unless you're the best of the best, you're going to be living in your parents' basement. Ignorance like this is entertaining. People don't understand how many people actually get coaching. Coaching is like 99% of my salary, and I do quite a bit of it. And by quite a bit I mean quite a bit. Arent you on team ROOT, one of the best teams in the world? Yeah...
I wouldn't say Root is one of the best teams in the world. But coaching as he says is the largest part of his Salary and thats the same for pros these days par some
edit; @JesusOurSaviour Idra's lesson cost $300/hr now it's crazy but if it works it works.
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seems like comparing lawyers, engineers and progamers isint really appropriate although some of the progamers may have the ability to reach those goals. comparing gaming to art or entertainment seems much more reasonable. within that category of professions most people are willing to make alot less to do what they love than work regular type jobs.
also the college oriented job market for young people doesnt seem to be doing the best at the moment. i have 3 friends my age who graduated college and dont have jobs related to their degrees, 1 who graduated in marketing and is self employed and the person i know who is below 30 and making the most money is a welder who didint graduate high school. doesnt seem like a particularily bad time to do what you love.
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You'd think someone with a marketing degree would learn what the word marketable means. Point being their are all sorts of trash majors and all sorts of GPAs out there that give you nothing but debt and a place to waste your time. I see it everyday. You're right they should try gaming or welding. OTOH if you do well and choose wisely you'll have no problems even in this economy. I can only speak to accounting which I study and the big 5 accounting firms won't even look at your resume unless you have a 3.8 or above so GPA plays a part too.
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the person in marketing is actually doing fine, but starting a new business he works quite alot and hasent had big returns yet, he just got married and is family oriented. the guy welding makes 30$ an hour (45 in overtime) and works 70 hours/week and is basically not concerned with anything but making money, not everyone who welds makes 11$/hr. plus only suggested doing what your passionate about. you can make alot of money doing almost anything if your really ambitious and live a lifestyle that supports making alot of money. my friends that graduated college felt they needed to because their parents did, their not very money driven.
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I find it quite interesting that people can pay 40$ for lessons and some up to $150 (IDRA?)
Hmmm a lot of things you don't need IdrA to teach - like basic micro and macro...
Also just watch Brood War replays (you learn heaps trust me), watch SCII pro replays and take some notes with a notebook, learn to use the pause button and see what people are doing... note it down... create a poster for each MU and put on it a timescale, then write down all the timings. If you have a good friend, you two can both learn builds and try timing attacks against each other, work out strats. Ofcourse your average joe would never do all of the above (I certainly don't), but it'll save you a lot of money :p
That said, asking a pro to teach you is like a more time-efficient way and your learning curve is a lot steeper.
The reason why people pay anything for coaching is exactly the point you made in your last sentence, some just cant literally be bothered to do what you explained in your first paragraph. which can easily be taught by idra by sayin, look this is exactly where you are going wrong, problem fixed 
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On May 03 2011 16:58 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 16:46 Etra wrote:
Maybe they do not want to for personal reasons and you should shut the fuck up. And what personal reason can possibly preclude their wish to release said information?
A desire for privacy.
And what personal reason can possibly compel them to release said information?
Many people are not comfortable discussing private details in public, *especially* if they are in the eye of public attention. Your average joe doesn't have forum threads dedicated to him, so he knows that whatever figure he gives you, nobody will care that *he* said it, and people won't walk around quoting his posts for months to come.
Also, in many cultures it is simply considered rude to explicitly ask for specific personal financial information unless you are very close to the person you are asking.
You don't feel like that? Fine. That does not mean that everyone is like you.
In the part of Europe I live in, people do not publicly talk about their salaries, and asking someone directly would be considered rude -- even asking them indirectly in public would be an affront.
You may not understand it why people are uncomfortable discussing it, but that doesn't mean they aren't. I wouldn't be comfortable, and it's not because I feel like I make "too much" -- it's simply none of your business.
I also don't feel comfortable giving out my home address to random people on the internet, and unlike my salary, my home address is actually public information.
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On May 04 2011 17:09 BluePanther wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 17:02 DarKFoRcE wrote:From what i know, pretty much all contracts have a non disclose agreement in them, so no pro will tell you publicly how much he gets from his team. How much you make from live streaming is extremely dependant on how many viewers you get, how often/long you stream, from where the viewers are, how many commercials you play etc etc. so there will be huge differences between "pros" here too. Maybe this is different in other countries, but in germany its pretty rude to ask someone how much he makes, unless you know him very well, and even then its kinda meh. On May 04 2011 07:44 FatkiddsLag wrote:
could a progamer at least shed some light on how much of the prize money from a major event goes to them and how much of it goes to the team? Such as MLG, GSL, TSL ect. and major teams like Liquid, EG, Dignitas, ect. This differs from team to team.. so there is no general answer to this. Even inside a team there can be different contracts, where one player can keep all the prizemoney, and another has to give some to the team. In my team (Alternate) we can keep all the prizemoney, but i know of teams where this isnt the case. No clue whether this is common knowledge, though. It's not exactly bad manners to ask for ranges for particular jobs, at least around where I'm from. Although to expect a particular salary would be bad taste, and you're not going to get much more than "i do well for myself, someone in my job makes 50-70k, etc." it's really only bad taste to talk about this type of stuff with coworkers.
The US is particularly open about discussing salaries, this is not the case for central Europe. Even asking ranges for particular jobs is kinda meh, *especially* if it's someone who is asking you personally (it's fine for an anonymous post on the internet asking out of curiosity).
And here, it's not bad taste to talk about this with coworkers at all; coworkers are pretty much the only people I'd feel comfortable with about discussing salary ranges.
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I wish people were mature enough to handle this kind of discussion, but I've seen how people across these intarwebz act, and I feel like players releasing a whole bunch of personal information about earnings could lead to a lot of bickering/arguing.
That being said, I personally think that in a group full of mature members, conversations about salaries and the flow of money could be healthy, and maybe even necessary in some cases.
Ack, I was going to write out a whole bunch of examples where understanding where all the money is being distributed would generate a lot of interesting/insightful discussion, but I'm far too tired for that.
That being said, I'm a very big proponent of high transparency, and I think that if people feel confident/good about what they're doing, there shouldn't be any problems with discussing your salary. Others feel uncomfortable, though, so, to each their own.
For JTV streams, I'm pretty sure the figure is 0.2 cents per ad per viewer ($0.002/ad/viewer), and people who are using ad-block (or people in certain countries, for some reason) don't count towards that figure. For people who are interested, here's a clip of my last month's earnings -
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Czb0D.png)
Unfortunately, from the 22nd to the 27th there was an error with reporting ad revenue so for some reason the entire day pretty much didn't write correctly, but otherwise, I think that provides a decent estimate of what someone can make streaming. That being said, I stream for quite a few hours at a time, and I can hold ~3k viewers. You could still make a decent amount of money (far more than what I used to think possible) with even 500 viewers for 6 hours a day. Even a few hundred dollars a month is more money than most people would ever think possible from streaming.
I can try to answer any questions, but I don't know specifics in terms of contracts from other people or teams, so it's hard to say what salaries are like.
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Your transparency is probably what wins you so many fans Destiny.
Thanks for the info/insight!
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Thanks for the info and insight with that post Destiny.
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16976 Posts
On May 04 2011 20:58 tdt wrote:
You'd think someone with a marketing degree would learn what the word marketable means. Point being their are all sorts of trash majors and all sorts of GPAs out there that give you nothing but debt and a place to waste your time. I see it everyday. You're right they should try gaming or welding. OTOH if you do well and choose wisely you'll have no problems even in this economy. I can only speak to accounting which I study and the big 5 accounting firms won't even look at your resume unless you have a 3.8 or above so GPA plays a part too.
Big 4 now. Enron ruined Arthur Andersen :<
EDIT: Fuck, sorry for off topic post X_X
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Maybe its because I was brought up in a society where it is rude to ask people how much money they earn but this is just so hypocritical from many of you.
How many of you would tell us your yearly income if asked? Let alone break it down into the specifics of how much you make from each section. Would you want thousands of people knowing how much you make. I know I wouldn't because what i make is for me to know. That is why payslips always say confidential its not there to fill blank space. It is because that shit is private.
I guess due to the fact these people are 'athletes' and most athletes among other sports are transparent in regards to their salaries doesn't mean that the athletes within the sc2 scene should have to be just because you expect it from other people. Speculate away but don't make it out that it is your right to know how much a SC2 pro makes.
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On May 04 2011 21:29 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 17:09 BluePanther wrote:On May 04 2011 17:02 DarKFoRcE wrote:From what i know, pretty much all contracts have a non disclose agreement in them, so no pro will tell you publicly how much he gets from his team. How much you make from live streaming is extremely dependant on how many viewers you get, how often/long you stream, from where the viewers are, how many commercials you play etc etc. so there will be huge differences between "pros" here too. Maybe this is different in other countries, but in germany its pretty rude to ask someone how much he makes, unless you know him very well, and even then its kinda meh. On May 04 2011 07:44 FatkiddsLag wrote:
could a progamer at least shed some light on how much of the prize money from a major event goes to them and how much of it goes to the team? Such as MLG, GSL, TSL ect. and major teams like Liquid, EG, Dignitas, ect. This differs from team to team.. so there is no general answer to this. Even inside a team there can be different contracts, where one player can keep all the prizemoney, and another has to give some to the team. In my team (Alternate) we can keep all the prizemoney, but i know of teams where this isnt the case. No clue whether this is common knowledge, though. It's not exactly bad manners to ask for ranges for particular jobs, at least around where I'm from. Although to expect a particular salary would be bad taste, and you're not going to get much more than "i do well for myself, someone in my job makes 50-70k, etc." it's really only bad taste to talk about this type of stuff with coworkers. The US is particularly open about discussing salaries, this is not the case for central Europe. Even asking ranges for particular jobs is kinda meh, *especially* if it's someone who is asking you personally (it's fine for an anonymous post on the internet asking out of curiosity). And here, it's not bad taste to talk about this with coworkers at all; coworkers are pretty much the only people I'd feel comfortable with about discussing salary ranges.
That hasn't been my experience living in the US...
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On May 05 2011 02:04 andy186 wrote:
Maybe its because I was brought up in a society where it is rude to ask people how much money they earn but this is just so hypocritical from many of you.
How many of you would tell us your yearly income if asked? Let alone break it down into the specifics of how much you make from each section. Would you want thousands of people knowing how much you make. I know I wouldn't because what i make is for me to know. That is why payslips always say confidential its not there to fill blank space. It is because that shit is private.
Personally, I don't mind getting asked that question. It's not that big of a thing in my opinion. Part of having a comfortable life isn't just making a big sum of money, but also living within your means and managing your money correctly. I know a few people that make $100k+ a year, but are still miserable because their money is "never enough." They are terrible at managing their spending and living within their means.
On May 05 2011 02:57 GagnarTheUnruly wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2011 21:29 bmn wrote:On May 04 2011 17:09 BluePanther wrote:On May 04 2011 17:02 DarKFoRcE wrote:From what i know, pretty much all contracts have a non disclose agreement in them, so no pro will tell you publicly how much he gets from his team. How much you make from live streaming is extremely dependant on how many viewers you get, how often/long you stream, from where the viewers are, how many commercials you play etc etc. so there will be huge differences between "pros" here too. Maybe this is different in other countries, but in germany its pretty rude to ask someone how much he makes, unless you know him very well, and even then its kinda meh. On May 04 2011 07:44 FatkiddsLag wrote:
could a progamer at least shed some light on how much of the prize money from a major event goes to them and how much of it goes to the team? Such as MLG, GSL, TSL ect. and major teams like Liquid, EG, Dignitas, ect. This differs from team to team.. so there is no general answer to this. Even inside a team there can be different contracts, where one player can keep all the prizemoney, and another has to give some to the team. In my team (Alternate) we can keep all the prizemoney, but i know of teams where this isnt the case. No clue whether this is common knowledge, though. It's not exactly bad manners to ask for ranges for particular jobs, at least around where I'm from. Although to expect a particular salary would be bad taste, and you're not going to get much more than "i do well for myself, someone in my job makes 50-70k, etc." it's really only bad taste to talk about this type of stuff with coworkers. The US is particularly open about discussing salaries, this is not the case for central Europe. Even asking ranges for particular jobs is kinda meh, *especially* if it's someone who is asking you personally (it's fine for an anonymous post on the internet asking out of curiosity). And here, it's not bad taste to talk about this with coworkers at all; coworkers are pretty much the only people I'd feel comfortable with about discussing salary ranges. That hasn't been my experience living in the US...
Not really the same here. People from my generation (I'm 21), typically don't mind talking about salary and how much they make. Other generations, specifically the older generations, are more hush hush about what they make. My dad, for example, won't tell anyone but the family how much he makes. He's even told me to never tell anyone how much he makes. He's really private about that type of thing.
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**EDIT thought Steven said it was 2cents not .2 cents** jesus christ people stop saying the same shit i already noticed and has been pointing out. my math wasnt incorrect, my numbers were.
He is getting $26 per commercial. If he shows 1 commercial every 10 mins he gets $156.. Not a terrible hourly wage imo for just playing Sc2 not even practising or coaching
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On May 05 2011 04:12 MaestroSC wrote:
Just doing the math on Idra and his stream, along with the incredibly helpful information from Mr Steven Bonnell II, Greg has 8000 viewers, he gets .02 per vier per commercial. he is getting $160 per commercial he shows atm.
If he streams for even an Hour he will show 6-10 commercials. he is going to make over $1,000 in this one hour at a MINIMUM. Not to mention his tournament winnings... I would love to see the records of Greg's financials.
Math, please. It's .2 cents or $0.002. $16 per commercial. 
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On May 05 2011 04:12 MaestroSC wrote:
Just doing the math on Idra and his stream, along with the incredibly helpful information from Mr Steven Bonnell II, Greg has 8000 viewers, he gets .02 per vier per commercial. he is getting $160 per commercial he shows atm.
If he streams for even an Hour he will show 6-10 commercials. he is going to make over $1,000 in this one hour at a MINIMUM. Not to mention his tournament winnings... I would love to see the records of Greg's financials.
Numbers were based on 8k viewers he now has almos 13k viewers... so much $$
The number was .2 cents, so .002. Idra would make $16 from each commercial with 8000 viewers, not $160. Big difference, but $16 per commercial just for streaming games is pretty sweet.
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On May 05 2011 04:16 Joementum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 04:12 MaestroSC wrote:
Just doing the math on Idra and his stream, along with the incredibly helpful information from Mr Steven Bonnell II, Greg has 8000 viewers, he gets .02 per vier per commercial. he is getting $160 per commercial he shows atm.
If he streams for even an Hour he will show 6-10 commercials. he is going to make over $1,000 in this one hour at a MINIMUM. Not to mention his tournament winnings... I would love to see the records of Greg's financials. Math, please. It's .2 cents or $0.002. $16 per commercial.
..not everyone in the stream gets the ad..eventhough it has been said in this thread too i'm sure.
adblock , region and stuff
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EPT
