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Didn't think we'd ever get to the point where we'd change economy and mechanics, but since we're here why not fix the game for the better.
Some of these are changes and suggestions that I originally submitted to both the original SC2 WoL Beta.
The main goal of the patch is to reduce frustration and "terrible terrible" damage scenarios by reducing the power of AoE in general, and allowing more focus to be spent through micro and multi-tasking.
Core Units T1 Units:
.25 size/scale increase for Marine
.10 size/scale increase for Zergling
.05 size/scale increase of Zealot
Purpose: Passively nerfs area of effect strength in most situations. Nerfs a critical mass point of marines in the mid game onward by reducing the amount that can fire in a tight group.
Protoss:
Warp Gate Upgrade - redesigned. Now only increases production time. Upgrade moved to cybernetics core. (Note: Uses current PTR time values)
Adept: Shade ability no longer ignores enemy collision.
Sentry: Forcefield removed. Replaced with Maelstrom.
[Maelstrom] - 50 energy. Same aoe radius as forcefield. Snares enemy units for ~7 seconds slowing their movement speed by 50%. (Note: Duration and slow amount subject to testing)
High Templar: [Psionic storm] now deals 80 damage over 5 seconds. (Note: This brings it to 16 DPS. Current version is ~18.3 DPS)
Robotics Support Bay: Recall upgrade adeed (Warp Prism). 100/100. 80 second research.
Warp Prism: Cost adjusted to 225/25.
New ability: [Recall] Requires upgrade.
-Upon shifting into Phasing mode can cast Recall to teleport selected units to its location.
-2 second channel, 120 second cooldown.
-Fungal growth area of effect selection size (Note: equates to roughly ~12 tightly stacked hydras as a reference)
Mothership: Removed
Terran:
Orbital Command: Construction time reduced by 8 seconds.
Energy regen increased by 0.2/tic
Calldown MULE removed.
Calldown Supply now grants +75 extra hitpoints and +2 armor to the supply depot.
Ghost: Supply cost moved to (2).
Attack range 6.
Attack Damage 10(+10 vs light)
[EMP Round]: rebalanced. Now shreds 75 points of shields & mana of targets hit. Limit of 500 shield/500 mana drained per cast.
[Steady Targeting]: Deals 150 true damage. Requires no instance of damage to be taken during the cast.
Liberator: Removed
Zerg:
Hatchery: Birth Queen now has a limit of (1) per hatchery.
Queen: 'Massive' tag added. 'Tissue Regeneration' Passive added
Energy regeneration increased by 0.5/tic
20% movement speed increase on Creep.
Base armor set to 2.
Anti air attack increased by 1. Cooldown changed to 0.65
Ground attack increased by 1. Cooldown changed to 0.65
Now consumes 4 slots in transport.
[Transfusion] can now be cast on self.
(Note: Attack cooldown is roughly a ~10% attack speed increase. Subject to testing)
Ravager: Can now attack air units.
Corruptor: Morph to Brood Lord build time reduced by 4 seconds.
Brood Lord: Broodling Stike attack redesigned. No longer spawns units.
Attack range increased by 1
Attack damage increased by 5
Attack cooldown lowered by 0.1
Swarm Host: Locust attack redesigned. No longer spawns units. Launches a ball of swarming insects dealing area of effect damage instantly and damage over time to units in the area.
Attack range: 7
30 damage initial hit
5 damage per second non-stacking with 2s duration
2.5s attack cooldown
(Note: Obviously requires testing. Attack would be marginally larger than a sieged tank's attack area of effect with the DoT portion having the same. Instant has less a less severe fall-off damage from center versus something like an Archon auto.)
(Note2: Envisioning a pseudo-homing projectile locking to the location halfway through. probably 50% slower than a Marauder's projectile. If it were targeting stay a stalker and it blinked the damage and AoE would still be dealt at the location)
Lurker Den: [Adaptive Talons] upgrade removed.
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There's actually a lot more that I've brainstormed but haven't quite fully decided on. (Mainly referring to things like the widow mine and colossus.)
Since I've only played random in the last decade for this game I consider these changes and ideas to be pretty unbiased.
My only contacts remaining at Blizzard are in the sewers of the WoW team with very little if any pull in the company.
I don't see any problems with anything listed on the PTR that doesn't conflict with my suggestions (eg. Phantom autos/QoL).
I am 1000% for implementing more or less everything Stormgate had going for it in terms of hotkeys, management, quality of life and customization.
Let me know what you think.
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Northern Ireland26972 Posts
Not radical enough dagnabbit!
In seriousness I have zero idea how it would all work, but I find it interesting ideas wise
Changing unit sizes as a way to counteract what I see as problems, namely Bio being able to deploy huge DPS in a small area and way out scale melee units over time, that’s interesting stuff. Having played games where I think melee and ranged units have interactions that remain more consistent with scale.
And obviously nobody’s rebuilding the core characteristics of the engine, but that’s something that could perhaps work within its confines.
I’m in the minority camp that a lot of SC2’s ‘design’ issues can be blamed on clumping and maximising DPS with bio especially and the idea that Terran is the ‘well-designed’ race is perhaps incorrect. Protoss having brutal AoE is a symptom of that rather than the core problem
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Hey Agh long time no see.... Interesting changes, thanks for sharing.
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United States1933 Posts
Just go back to the last patch of hots and start over. Zerg was learning ways to beat mech (plus new maps not gonna enable it the same way echo or terraform did), Protoss needs a nerf to blink (probably throw a longer research time on). Ghosts need a buff and we can probably buff hydras too. Just remove the adept, liberator and cyclone. Ravager is fine.
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1. Remove all these fkn macro mechanics
2. Move Queen to tier 2 unit
TY
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On June 03 2026 22:47 WombaT wrote:
Not radical enough dagnabbit!
In seriousness I have zero idea how it would all work, but I find it interesting ideas wise
Changing unit sizes as a way to counteract what I see as problems, namely Bio being able to deploy huge DPS in a small area and way out scale melee units over time, that’s interesting stuff. Having played games where I think melee and ranged units have interactions that remain more consistent with scale.
And obviously nobody’s rebuilding the core characteristics of the engine, but that’s something that could perhaps work within its confines.
I’m in the minority camp that a lot of SC2’s ‘design’ issues can be blamed on clumping and maximising DPS with bio especially and the idea that Terran is the ‘well-designed’ race is perhaps incorrect. Protoss having brutal AoE is a symptom of that rather than the core problem
I omitted quite a bit that I felt fell into the radical category, all of the changes require minimal work to implement. (The only significant ones would be the brood lord/swarm host attack animations but I'm sure a temporary placeholder already exists, and quite frankly I think sc2 lacks some meme-tier animations in that department.)
It's always been my rather ingenious solution to nerfing something without actually 'nerfing' it.
I think everyone has gone into an editor or custom and seen the point at which X amount of marines can seemingly kill infinite amounts of melee.
Starcraft 2's engine can't really be improved upon (except for adding an additional collision detection check for colossus). Suggestions of the past like "Just make the units dumber" or "make the game slower" are just attempts at masking the underlying issues.
On June 04 2026 01:27 Mizenhauer wrote:
Just go back to the last patch of hots and start over. Zerg was learning ways to beat mech (plus new maps not gonna enable it the same way echo or terraform did), Protoss needs a nerf to blink (probably throw a longer research time on). Ghosts need a buff and we can probably buff hydras too. Just remove the adept, liberator and cyclone. Ravager is fine.
I was in that camp 10+ years ago, although preference was more WoL than HotS. My original post from that long ago actually did have a longer blink cooldown and I think the +1/+1 upgrade reinstated over the +1/+0 now.
There are a ton of moving parts and interactions going on. One thing I think that is easily overlooked with the economy changes in conjunction with things like forcefield removal and marine size is how much more map flexibility we gain. Some maps having natural chokes of 7-9 hexes vs the 10+ standard would be refreshing. Chokes and narrow areas throughout the map will no longer be a negative feature (just please no single file garbage like the one map with the xelnaga tower by it) since forcefields won't exist and marines will be less punishing.
You reminded me, and I added to my note about the adept. The unit is quite the plague in PvP and ZvP. I don't think anyone finds spore/spine or pylon blocking constantly to be entertaining or fun gameplay.
Ravager AA change is necessary in conjunction with queen change, otherwise you run into a critical mass point with early Banshees and Void Rays.
Less is more always tends to be the best approach. I've always though hydras are quite good units and more than balanced stat wise. Unit scale reduction would be the only buff I'd give them if I thought they needed it.
Probably outing myself but I played a ton of roach/ravager/hydra/infestor in ZvT (pre-shroud existing) to surprising effectiveness.
A wise man called Nadagast once said every unit has a DPS/cost at its core. Stalker being the worst, Thor being the best, with things like the Marine and Hydra not far behind. Everything needs to adhere within this boilerplate.
At some point long ago these were all just spit-balled ideas in my head but over time I've given significant consideration to the push-pull cause and effect the each idea carries. There is most likely something I've overlooked, and some suggestions might end up being genuinely bad upon testing but my ultimate goal is all changes being conducive to player enjoyment.
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United States8477 Posts
On June 03 2026 18:25 Agh wrote:
Didn't think we'd ever get to the point where we'd change economy and mechanics, but since we're here why not fix the game for the better.
Some of these are changes and suggestions that I originally submitted to both the original SC2 WoL Beta.
The main goal of the patch is to reduce frustration and "terrible terrible" damage scenarios by reducing the power of AoE in general, and allowing more focus to be spent through micro and multi-tasking.
Core Units T1 Units:
.25 size/scale increase for Marine
.10 size/scale increase for Zergling
.05 size/scale increase of Zealot
Purpose: Passively nerfs area of effect strength in most situations. Nerfs a critical mass point of marines in the mid game onward by reducing the amount that can fire in a tight group.
These three units have the same size in sc2, and I once asked around to figure out why that is. The pathing guy told me it's because pathing works better when units fall into buckets of sizes. The analogy he gave was how balls in a ball pit don't leave much room between the balls when they're uniform in size. But if you greatly vary the sizes of the balls, the amount of empty space in the pit is much greater.
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Northern Ireland26972 Posts
On June 04 2026 05:43 monk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2026 18:25 Agh wrote:
Didn't think we'd ever get to the point where we'd change economy and mechanics, but since we're here why not fix the game for the better.
Some of these are changes and suggestions that I originally submitted to both the original SC2 WoL Beta.
The main goal of the patch is to reduce frustration and "terrible terrible" damage scenarios by reducing the power of AoE in general, and allowing more focus to be spent through micro and multi-tasking.
Core Units T1 Units:
.25 size/scale increase for Marine
.10 size/scale increase for Zergling
.05 size/scale increase of Zealot
Purpose: Passively nerfs area of effect strength in most situations. Nerfs a critical mass point of marines in the mid game onward by reducing the amount that can fire in a tight group. These three units have the same size in sc2, and I once asked around to figure out why that is. The pathing guy told me it's because pathing works better when units fall into buckets of sizes. The analogy he gave was how balls in a ball pit don't leave much room between the balls when they're uniform in size. But if you greatly vary the sizes of the balls, the amount of empty space in the pit is much greater.
That makes a lot of sense, cheers for the info!
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I like the idea behind it even if some of the specifics could be debated. In fact, I'd like to see it go even further. Instead of the worker change, I was hoping SC2 would go more in the direction of lower dps during fights, fewer deathball armies, make hard counters a little softer, and less severe harassment options (oracle, widow mines) while promoting harassment through small groups of armies in different locations.
In theory it should make the game feel more accessible for newer players while retaining the high skill ceiling for pros and game speed for viewers.
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For the ghost I was thinking to change the snipe to be a "siege" ability.
For the simplicity sake let's imagine that it would work similarly to liberator siege: you choose the area which is being "scanned" for enemies. Once enemy goes inside the area the ghost targets it. There would be short time before the ghost actually shoots (similarly as the widow mine) so the enemy could try to save the unit by quickly getting out of the ghost zone. Ghost getting damage would not cancel shooting. The range would be higher then the sight range of the ghost. Damage high but slow shooting. Up to debate if should be able to attack both ground and air. For fluff there could be additional feature: bypass any armour (inherent or acquired).
Such snipe would allow only bio play with some siege capability.
The DMG would be still high but there would be some counter play possible (micoring units).
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Northern Ireland26972 Posts
Just as we’re going a bit crazy, I think Colossus should hit way harder, but you should have to manually deploy them and orientate their cone of lazer death.
Just as a concept, I think in actuality it would be very messing in terms of synergising with current Toss comps
Perhaps folks feel such an idea overlaps too much with the siege tank or the lurker, I think of them as almost artillery substitutes, whereas this Colossus would be more akin to your boys dragging up a heavy machine gun to the front lines
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Forcefield is the coolest spell in the game, I've always played sentry focused styles, even when it's bad. The sentry itself is not super cool, but FF and to some degree hallucinations absolutely are.
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On June 04 2026 01:27 Mizenhauer wrote:
Just go back to the last patch of hots and start over. Zerg was learning ways to beat mech (plus new maps not gonna enable it the same way echo or terraform did), Protoss needs a nerf to blink (probably throw a longer research time on). Ghosts need a buff and we can probably buff hydras too. Just remove the adept, liberator and cyclone. Ravager is fine.
This ! Those were the times...
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On June 04 2026 05:43 monk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2026 18:25 Agh wrote:
Didn't think we'd ever get to the point where we'd change economy and mechanics, but since we're here why not fix the game for the better.
Some of these are changes and suggestions that I originally submitted to both the original SC2 WoL Beta.
The main goal of the patch is to reduce frustration and "terrible terrible" damage scenarios by reducing the power of AoE in general, and allowing more focus to be spent through micro and multi-tasking.
Core Units T1 Units:
.25 size/scale increase for Marine
.10 size/scale increase for Zergling
.05 size/scale increase of Zealot
Purpose: Passively nerfs area of effect strength in most situations. Nerfs a critical mass point of marines in the mid game onward by reducing the amount that can fire in a tight group. These three units have the same size in sc2, and I once asked around to figure out why that is. The pathing guy told me it's because pathing works better when units fall into buckets of sizes. The analogy he gave was how balls in a ball pit don't leave much room between the balls when they're uniform in size. But if you greatly vary the sizes of the balls, the amount of empty space in the pit is much greater.
The logic is correct but the analogy leaves a lot to be desired, since the physics is arbitrary to the coder. Then on the other end in a real scenario if the sizes are different they will just naturally sort (small things will fall to the bottom, etc).
It is most certainly easier and faster computationally to use set size categories, but that doesn't yield the best product for gameplay. I'm sure if there was a poll of general gripes with Sc2 the auto-balling of units would be near the top. Pretty certain iirc they've gone back and forth with how things like Ultras behave with collision, so changes have been explored in the past.
Regardless this change seems like an absolute no-brainer, and I would be very curious to objective reasoning against it.
On June 05 2026 22:56 WombaT wrote:
Just as we’re going a bit crazy, I think Colossus should hit way harder, but you should have to manually deploy them and orientate their cone of lazer death.
Just as a concept, I think in actuality it would be very messing in terms of synergising with current Toss comps
Perhaps folks feel such an idea overlaps too much with the siege tank or the lurker, I think of them as almost artillery substitutes, whereas this Colossus would be more akin to your boys dragging up a heavy machine gun to the front lines
Perhaps minor tweaks so they are at least serviceable in PvP would be the best baseline. Vipers render them obsolete in that matchup and PvT has the only proper tug of war. l think they're fine and should be an afterthought to other significant changes. I'd be very hesitant to buff them statistically outside of accessibility (cost/time).
I've actually tried a lot of different versions of colossus, and none felt great. Even when they do they usually run into the issue of being overpowered en masse. The only exception was basically a siege tank shot with a much longer cooldown (in fact that is exactly what it was lmao). Anyway I think it's an entirely different can of worms that I think should be visited much later.
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Well since everyone is putting out their big Sc2 redesigns. Here are mine (well I have a lot more but these are the most important ones I collected over the 10+ years).
My proposals:
General
* Default ranged air units all have 0 damage point with the exception of the Hellion where it acutally has a purpose.
0 damage point just feels so much better to play - game should be balanced around that. Some tweaks to certain units are needed to balance it but huge win for movement based micro.
Terran:
* Late game siege tank upgrade that adds bonus damage vs shield and perhaps like +5 overall.
* Concussive shell removed - maurauders compensated slighntly
* Snipe removed
* EMP missile speed reduced to ~9 and animization size so it's easier to see. EMP no longer takes energy or shild but deals damage to units with energy instead.
* Ghosts can stim and default movement speed and stats adjusted accordingly (qol change so same control group as other bio)
* Thor significant signle target anti-armored buff increase. AOE mode removed. Vikings now deal more damage to light units.
* Thor movement speed increased - damage vs ground units reduced
* Medivac siege tank drop pick up reintroduced as late-game upgrade.
Overall Terran Philosophy: Siege tanks replaces ghosts as the core late game cost efficient unit.
Huge redesign of the Ghost which imo isn't very interesting. I think this version of the Ghost would be more fun to play with and against. Due to EMP now being a proper skillshot more movement based counter micro is practical.
Sc2 has the fundamental wrong philosphy with air needed to beat t3 air - so this should be addresed now with Thor hardcountering t3 air.
Protoss:
* Increase movement speed of Colossus and Immortals - stats adjusted accordingly
* Colossus no longer targetable by air - attack ranged reduced to 7 - thermal lance removed.
* Charge removed and replaced with legspeed - so just straight up faster Zealots.
* Protoss also needs a proper strong positional unit that's hard to break into. I think you could a boring a-move unit like the Archon a new researchable ability that makes it immobile in a temorary state but very cost effective. There are some different types of ideas you can play around with here.
* Void Ray removed. Tempest redesigned to be normal 7 range unit that served a bit of the purpose Void Rays did previously
Overall protoss philosophy:
Units need a certain level of base-speed to be microable - Colossus/immortals a bit too slow for that. So their general army composition becomes mobile and easier to move around - but slightly less cost effective. For cost efficiency purposes they get compensated with a strong positional unit similar to how terran an dzerg have liberator/siege-tank/lurker
Protoss Air units were a catastrophoe in unit-design - so large changes needed there.
Zerg:
* Abduct removed and replaced with a slow-moving "missile" that deals 350-400 damage when it hits but can be avoided by moving away from it. (medivac pick up siege tanks ability can be researched as a fun skillfull counter to that).
* Hydralisk tier 1 in some way. (might as well nerf Queen or evenjust straighntup remove it)
* Hydralisk anti-armored air attack buff increase
* Nydus unload very slow but very cheap and builds fast. Overlord drop movement speed increased.
* Ultra smaller size, movement speed increased, HP reduced.
Zerg philosphy:
* Nydus and Overlord drop roles somewhat reversed - Nydus is now ideal for low risk base harass but can't get many units out since unload is slow.
* Queen is boring unit - Hydra tier1 aadds more options.
* Ultralisk needs to be faster and not easily kiteable (this ismy philosophy on all melee units hence also why Zealot gets a speed buff).
* Current Abduct lacks of countermicro opportunities.
* Hydra needs stronger anti-air. Mass t3 air must never be a stable endgame composition in any matchup.
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EPT
