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Barca
United States418 Posts
This isn't the GSL, who borrowed a lot from the presentation of BW. This isn't Korea, the entire country does not know that the NASL exists. This is a homegrown, American-made Starcraft league. The more people who pay money and subscribe, the better it will get. Positive encouragement is great, but there is some serious hate going on in this thread. | ||
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mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
On April 15 2011 14:25 Barca wrote: You guys are too hard on local Starcraft. This isn't the GSL, who borrowed a lot from the presentation of BW. This isn't Korea, the entire country does not know that the NASL exists. This is a homegrown, American-made Starcraft league. The more people who pay money and subscribe, the better it will get. Positive encouragement is great, but there is some serious hate going on in this thread. I agree, it hasn`t even been a full week. Constructive criticism is good but some people take it too far and just flame. If we want SC2 to grow in NA we need to show a little more support and be more open minded. | ||
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numLoCK
Canada1416 Posts
On April 15 2011 13:50 acurax04 wrote: Personally, I despise camera rotating and unit following lock. First person view is too fast to be enjoyable to the casual viewer IMO. Definitely think an independent observer would be great, allows the casters to focus more. Who observes the TSL matches? Hot_Bid? He is amazing. He clicks on everything, and is always fondling the production bar with his cursor to let us know whats up when the casters are focused elsewhere. As far as I know, the TSL observer watches the games in advance so that he knows what is going on and where he needs to be at the crucial moments. Conversely, I believe the NASL casts the games as they are happening and as such can't prepare in that way. | ||
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Goblinoid
United States55 Posts
On April 15 2011 12:48 Snaphoo wrote: I for one am appalled by the lack of professionalism shown by iNControl and Gretorp Can you imagine Korean GSL casters yelling during a GSL cast "HEY JINRO/HUK! WELCOME TO KOREA! LOSIRA IS YOUR HOST!" as banelings were obliterating them? Because that's the kind of commentating I saw from iNControl on Axslav/Squirtle. I would appreciate if casters did not celebrate the loss of any player, Korean or otherwise. Professional disinterest is possible in SC2 commentating; I wish that the casters would exercise some. That being said, I otherwise enjoy iNControl's commentary otherwise, particularly with his articulate explanations of the nuances of Protoss play. Agreed. Objectivity should be the goal. It was nice when iNcontrol finally got around to saying "that was a really fun PvP; no 4gate, interesting strats, etc" Moreover, iNcontrol flip-flopped the way he should give disclaimers in the cast. That is, don't talk smack during the game, and then give me a disclaimer of "now let's get rid of all the bias" in order to give objective points about the game. Do the opposite: give objective points during the cast, and then give a disclaimer afterwards of "okay, now I need to get this out of my system" and THEN you can start chanting Axslav's name or whatever you need to do. But I love your work and you're already improving, so please take this as constructive criticism <3 | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On April 15 2011 14:25 Barca wrote: You guys are too hard on local Starcraft. This isn't the GSL, who borrowed a lot from the presentation of BW. This isn't Korea, the entire country does not know that the NASL exists. This is a homegrown, American-made Starcraft league. The more people who pay money and subscribe, the better it will get. Positive encouragement is great, but there is some serious hate going on in this thread. Rofl ... sure it may be an "american-made league", but anything of that prize pool in Starcraft is GLOBAL. Not every criticism is hate and you simply dont learn as fast if everyone always tells you "you were great today, but could you try to do it a little like this?" because you waste too much time and effort on making it fluffy and soft. Thats a stupid way of teaching we invented in the 70s because kids never learn to deal with criticism that way and call it hate instead. | ||
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Snaphoo
United States614 Posts
On April 15 2011 14:25 Barca wrote: You guys are too hard on local Starcraft. This isn't the GSL, who borrowed a lot from the presentation of BW. This isn't Korea, the entire country does not know that the NASL exists. This is a homegrown, American-made Starcraft league. The more people who pay money and subscribe, the better it will get. Positive encouragement is great, but there is some serious hate going on in this thread. Definitely agree that some of the hate in this thread (particularly Gretorp flaming) is out of line, but NASL so far is pretty underwhelming in a lot of easily fix-able ways. Not having audio equalization? Flaming Korean players? Observing a nexus for forty-five seconds while making jokes about one player? TSL is an American-grown tournament and the production value is VASTLY superior, and it has a fraction of the prize pool and financial muscle behind it. If NASL wants to play with the big boys and really make e-sports mainstream in the US, having an amateur set and making amateur mistakes is a no-no. Do they need pillars of flame shooting out of the ground next to soundproof booths, a la GSL? No, at least not yet (haha), but some better lighting, maybe a larger space, some video intros to games, a intro video for NASL, some map analysis videos, some music (NOT the terran SC2 music on a loop), etc. would all do a lot to bump up production value and make it seem like something more impressive than two guys in blazers with a desk and two monitors in a buddy's well-lit basement casting SC2 games. That being said, they've already taken some feedback/criticism to heart (e.g. audio), for which I commend them. But if you want to aim high then execute at a high level; if you keep up low-quality presentation, mainstream North America will continue to more or less not know that NASL/eSports exists. | ||
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MrSexington
United States1768 Posts
On April 15 2011 15:20 Snaphoo wrote: TSL is an American-grown tournament and the production value is VASTLY superior;the video intro to every match gets me incredibly hype, as opposed to dead silence or "5 MINUTE INTERMISSION." If NASL wants to play with the big boys and really make e-sports mainstream in the US, having an amateur set and making amateur mistakes is a no-no. A little OT but... Is TSL really an american-grown tournament? Team Liquid was founded by a European and consists mostly of European players. And teamliquid.net (as far as I can tell) has many Canadians who are in charge of making things run smoothly. (I'm American btw.) | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
On April 15 2011 15:20 Snaphoo wrote: Definitely agree that some of the hate in this thread (particularly Gretorp flaming) is out of line, but NASL so far is pretty underwhelming in a lot of easily fix-able ways. Not having audio equalization? Flaming Korean players? Observing a nexus for forty-five seconds while making jokes about one player? TSL is an American-grown tournament and the production value is VASTLY superior;the video intro to every match gets me incredibly hype, as opposed to dead silence or "5 MINUTE INTERMISSION." If NASL wants to play with the big boys and really make e-sports mainstream in the US, having an amateur set and making amateur mistakes is a no-no. That being said, they've already taken some feedback/criticism to heart (e.g. audio), for which I commend them. But if you want to aim high then execute at a high level; if you keep up low-quality presentation, mainstream North America will continue to more or less not know that NASL/eSports exists. Keep in mind, TSL also is on their third tournament - they have plenty of experience running these humongous events and getting all of the details ready - and they have the huge support and cast of teamliquid talent to help them run this tournament (cough R1CH cough cough). If i've learned anything, experience is one of the most important things required to make something run smoothly and well. Also, some of the things you claim as being "easily fix-able" isn't quite as easy as you may claim. But i'll avoid the flaming and just say something along the lines of It's not anywhere as bad as people make it out to be, and it's only going to get better with our support, so sit back and enjoy the ride Edit: and they definitely should not release the replays. This is just logical. | ||
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Joementum
787 Posts
Oh god... I'm watching the QXC/Moman game and that screaming when the Hatchery almost went down was just too much. Calm yourselves down a bit, for christs sake. Edit - Yeah... there was just way too much yelling during that entire game. You don't have to yell every time there is an engagement. I took off my headset every time there was a battle because it annoyed the crap out of me and was loud as hell as well. And tell JTV to fix their VOD crap. If I skip around more than 3 times in a match, it just freezes up on me and I have to refresh the page. | ||
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Snaphoo
United States614 Posts
On April 15 2011 15:25 Comeh wrote: Keep in mind, TSL also is on their third tournament - they have plenty of experience running these humongous events and getting all of the details ready - and they have the huge support and cast of teamliquid talent to help them run this tournament (cough R1CH cough cough). If i've learned anything, experience is one of the most important things required to make something run smoothly and well. Also, some of the things you claim as being "easily fix-able" isn't quite as easy as you may claim. But i'll avoid the flaming and just say something along the lines of It's not anywhere as bad as people make it out to be, and it's only going to get better with our support, so sit back and enjoy the ride Yep, but it'll also only get better with feedback from the community-- stop me if I've said anything that you'd characterize as unhelpful for improving NASL. Also if not TSL, then how about a caster like Khaldor? His set seems way more professional than NASL, and that's just what he's using for YouTube casts. Not flaming NASL, just pointing out other examples of high production values for SC2 casting outside of Korea. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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rickybobby
United States405 Posts
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neo_sporin
United States516 Posts
On April 15 2011 10:15 Jibba wrote: I never thought I would use the "p word", but there is no reason that Strelok interview should've been played, outside of intentionally extending the drama. I know it will get NASL more attention and hits, but I think it was done in poor taste. It just should've been a statement from NASL, possibly a written statement from Strelok and/or mouz, and that's it. That was more WWE than ESPN. I agree about the interview, My biggest issue with the whole thing is how many times incontrol iterated, and reiterated, that it was streloks desicion. The way the interview and explanation played how it amounts to me that NASL is saying "hey, this player broke the rules but we wanted to keep giving him chances, blame his opponent for you not getting to see a rescheduled match. Again, this was streloks choice, not ours" It just feels really bad that NASL wants to make it seem like its streloks fault we wont see a rescheduled match vs naniwa's. NASL needs to say "Naniwa screwed up and he is being punished, we told strelok he would be getting a free win and he did not argue about it" Additionally--anyone find it funny that during the preshow they mentioned "naniwa had a really bad reputation and has been kicked out of a bunch of leagues, but he has changed....oh btw he didn't show up for his first match" | ||
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
Go watch Mr.Bitter's 12 Weeks With The Pros and tell me Geoff doesn't know about zerg Geoff doesn't know much about zerg outside of what they do to him in ZvP...he might no some general things, but him saying an ovie getting killed at the beginning of a ZvZ is no big deal would be a prefect example that he doesn't know a lot about zerg. On top of that the overly cocky 'I know this' when he doesn't attitude he portrays is terrible. Aside from that all the bias against the foreign players, allowing all the bile from strelok on the cast etc...this is like watching a bunch of rich high school kids goofing off in their backyard to be totally honest. I don't mean that as a slam...i mean that as the quality of a product I feel like they are putting out. If geoff and gretorp and the NASL team are really going to take this seriously they need to greatly improve their casting/production quality. I'm beyond glad i didn't pay 25 dollars for a season pass to see decent games but terrible production, laggy streams, and bad/biased casting. This might sound harsh but some of the games with the biased/bad casting are painful to watch. I actually turned it off today because I couldn't take it anymore and I've never turned a SC2 event off. Whoever is the money man behind NASL should really consider getting 2 real casters and let gretorp/incontrol go focus on playing. Then while they are at it fix the production quality and the streaming issues with justin.tv. | ||
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CursedRich
United Kingdom737 Posts
On April 15 2011 16:58 Nerski wrote: Geoff doesn't know much about zerg outside of what they do to him in ZvP...he might no some general things, but him saying an ovie getting killed at the beginning of a ZvZ is no big deal would be a prefect example that he doesn't know a lot about zerg. On top of that the overly cocky 'I know this' when he doesn't attitude he portrays is terrible. Aside from that all the bias against the foreign players, allowing all the bile from strelok on the cast etc...this is like watching a bunch of rich high school kids goofing off in their backyard to be totally honest. I don't mean that as a slam...i mean that as the quality of a product I feel like they are putting out. If geoff and gretorp and the NASL team are really going to take this seriously they need to greatly improve their casting/production quality. I'm beyond glad i didn't pay 25 dollars for a season pass to see decent games but terrible production, laggy streams, and bad/biased casting. This might sound harsh but some of the games with the biased/bad casting are painful to watch. I actually turned it off today because I couldn't take it anymore and I've never turned a SC2 event off. Whoever is the money man behind NASL should really consider getting 2 real casters and let gretorp/incontrol go focus on playing. Then while they are at it fix the production quality and the streaming issues with justin.tv. I agree, I think that they at least need to add another 2-3 people to the casting roster, I not sure that these guys every night will cut it, but time will tell and its too early to form definitive opinions yet I cringe when they go into copy tastosis mode, be yourselves and define your own on screen persona | ||
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NoobSkills
United States1591 Posts
On April 15 2011 17:07 CursedRich wrote: I agree, I think that they at least need to add another 2-3 people to the casting roster, I not sure that these guys every night will cut it, but time will tell and its too early to form definitive opinions yet I cringe when they go into copy tastosis mode, be yourselves and define your own on screen persona Put well, but I don't agree they InControl doesn't know about zerg. It just hasn't been shown through the NASL yet. He hasn't learned that because IMO Gretorp might be lacking in that aspect (even in the ZvT department) he has to take over. Hopefully they both can shine throughout all this and Diggity can pop on while InControl is taking first. Or....Incontrol can cast himself muahahaa | ||
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UnknownReclaimer
United States146 Posts
On April 15 2011 16:58 Nerski wrote: Geoff doesn't know much about zerg outside of what they do to him in ZvP...he might no some general things, but him saying an ovie getting killed at the beginning of a ZvZ is no big deal would be a prefect example that he doesn't know a lot about zerg. On top of that the overly cocky 'I know this' when he doesn't attitude he portrays is terrible. Aside from that all the bias against the foreign players, allowing all the bile from strelok on the cast etc...this is like watching a bunch of rich high school kids goofing off in their backyard to be totally honest. I don't mean that as a slam...i mean that as the quality of a product I feel like they are putting out. If geoff and gretorp and the NASL team are really going to take this seriously they need to greatly improve their casting/production quality. I'm beyond glad i didn't pay 25 dollars for a season pass to see decent games but terrible production, laggy streams, and bad/biased casting. This might sound harsh but some of the games with the biased/bad casting are painful to watch. I actually turned it off today because I couldn't take it anymore and I've never turned a SC2 event off. Whoever is the money man behind NASL should really consider getting 2 real casters and let gretorp/incontrol go focus on playing. Then while they are at it fix the production quality and the streaming issues with justin.tv. You do realize that he played Zerg in BW right? For several years? And he actively coaches players of all 3 races, with great success I might add. I personally (and I realize I may be in the minority) really enjoy the Gretorp/inC casting combo. You can already tell a huge difference between the first game they casted together and last nights games. I'm hoping that in the next few weeks they'll get Day9 to do some casting as well though. Nothing really entertains me as much as Sean casting, unless that happens to be him laughing uncontrollably... With how much has been improved, and so quickly improved, I'm really glad I paid for the high quality stream. If my 20 bucks can help them continue to do this for multiple seasons then I am more than willing to shell it out every few months. Especially since we get to see such amazing games. I particularly enjoyed Axlav's phoenix response last night. Was an amazing game to watch. I guess my main point is, is that this is only a few days into the first season of NASL. There hasn't really been a tournament of this scope in NA before. Of course there are gonna be mistakes. But with how fast they seem to be correcting them, I really think that the next few months are going to really be something amazing. oh...and inControL fighting!!!! XD | ||
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GhostFall
United States830 Posts
First off, despite not having the chemistry of tasteless and artosis or the energy, I really really prefer your guys commentary for one huge reason. You guys haven't shown any bias against playstyles. Although, tasteless is completely innocent of this, Artosis is a whiner and it shows. He gives great analysis and great commentary, but his biases shine through in his commentating. I seriously, fucking hate it, and I wanna emphasize fucking here, when Artosis says anything along the lines of "This is how X race is supposed to be played or whenever he casts cheese games with that horrible condescending tone. I'm sure he recognizes the legitimacy of cheese but he certainly doesn't respect it. This attitude that North Americans have about "deserving to win" especially in light of MC vs WhiteRa at Dreamhack is trash. And to be blunt, being one of the most watched commentators, Artosis has definitely contributed immensely to that. Casters, and I hope you understand this will fall onto NASL casters as well, have a huge influence on the casual observers perception and opinions. Anyway, so far you guys haven't done that, and I hope you remember to continue emphasizing the legitimacy of all tactics and strategies, not just long macro games. Also, while it is completely cool to point out what you believe to be flaws in a player's play, please don't do it in a condescending tone like Artosis does to some players, *cough* BitbyBit *cough*. It's disrespectful to the players and that attitude rubs off onto spectators. And then players again get crap because of that. So please keep up the non biased commentary. Please. I do believe you guys need to get more energetic. Maybe it's hard because you're in a studio without any people, but it's really fun seeing Artosis and Tasteless cheer with the crowd in GSL. At the same time, dont always yell to show energy, it feels forced. In terms of information from casts, analysis was perfectly fine, it would be pretty cool if you guys had artosis' level of analysis where he predicts builds fairly accurately, but that's not that necessary. I would really like if you guys can to try to predict the mindset certain players have. A lot of spectators that watch are going to be bronze-plat level, and honestly the biggest thing that players can gain to get better from watching replays is mindset and attitude. It would also be nice to point out things that bronze level players don't understand. Tasteless does this a lot explaining why certain builds do what they do. It would also be cool to educate watchers on what to look for when watching a game. I also noticed that a lot of watchers don't really play. I think it would be great if you can encourage watchers to play more, somehow using the games you casted as motivation. It would be nice after the game to have a possible highlights or replay video for analysis. Like imagine there was a huge deciding battle and the game ends. In the 2 minutes following the game, it would be pretty cool to bring up an instant replay of that deciding battle and go all John Madden with it and highlight certain things, like look at the position of the tanks here and here *circles tanks* they contributed greatly to blah blah blah, or like look at this guys incredible macro, *circles the resources* as the battle is going on. blah blah blah. It would be nice to have a NASL intro during intermissions. Kinda like GSL always has intros. I like the little oddities incontrol and gretorp have sometimes, like incontrol always goes "bring those x units to bear". gives you guys more personality. The caster bench feels kinda bare. Havent been a fan of the pregames so far. don't really know why. they're boring. during intermissions it might be cool to have little tidbits of starcraft 1 history. Like did you know the term maynarding came from the player maynard. Or explain the significance of the golden mouse. Also, it would be cool if you could plug the sponsors of the players. Do you guys have plans to hire a korean caster so that they can cast the games out to korea? Get people from korea paying 25 dollars a tournament sounds good too. hmm thats all i have for now. | ||
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GhostFall
United States830 Posts
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Tyree
1508 Posts
Once they get into groove a bit more i think they will have more fun. Tastosis is beloved by everyone because it is 2 guys having fun, that is all there is to it, both of them misjudge tactics sometimes or say silly things but all that is forgotten when you see 2 people actually ENJOYING what they do, there is no "fakeness" to it, it is as real as it gets. When you watch NASL you watch 2 guys trying to be someone they are not, i just wish we saw their real personalities more, Gretorp is a hell of alot more entertaining and natural than he is on NASL, as is iNcontrol on SOTG. They need to simply remember who is watching them, its not some bussiness men from a Forbes 500 company, their grandparents or who else. Its simply SC2 fans who are very much alike themselves, just be yourselves and have as much fun as you can. | ||
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