|
On April 15 2011 13:03 Everhate wrote:
For all the hate, Gretorp has been (at least in my opinion) improving on a day-by-day basis. Think a lot of it is just him being a bit uncomfortable and falling back on certain terminology repeatedly, but there were only a few moments that felt forced tonight.
Again, just my opinion, but keep up the work, appreciate most of the changes that have been made so far. For the most part things seem to be trending upward, just a matter of continuing to iron things out.
He is improving.
He is still terrible (currently)
He is VERY informative.
His sentence choices are VERY poor when describing a match's quality(aka everything is the most epic thing since epic was epic)(lol not anything he actually said, but makes my point)
When he is excited it is just terrible. I can hear that he isn't into the game. I know that he knows what is going on is important, but he himself is not actually excited.
But that being said I don't think Day9 Tastosis or anyone else was fantastic when they first started practice makes perfect and I actually wish him and Geoff good luck with improving their voice for casting as well as good luck in tournaments.
|
This post concerns observer mode.
The observing view is not dynamic enough. If casters would follow the game at a "higher apm" the quality would be up a notch: its basically all you see. Theres audio, mental and visual content: I believe following battles and army movement with more movement would be more exciting and enjoyable. Heres some things:
-Camera rotating
-Unit following lock
-More use of one of either players vision in order to explain choice of strategies, reactions.
-Use of the first person view of players
that would greatly improve the visual experience.
|
Ah, yes: There's a formidable amount of Protoss and Terran knowledge between iNControl and Gretorp, but the analysis of Zerg play is very much short of the other 2 races. I'd love if they could get a Zerg-focused caster into the rotation.
When Terrans were playing Gretorp was talking about positional play and nuances of TvT tank use. Nice.
When Protoss were playing iNControl offered sharp disagreement with gas management of a delayed 3 gate expand because he predicted Colossi would be out too late to hit the sweet-spot of a timing push. Very cool depth to hear from a pro Toss player.
When Zerg were playing, iNControl offered "Talking to some of the best Zerg in the world, I can tell you that baneling openings aren't good against roaches." ...not quite on the same level.
|
Help improve the lag issue that seems to be affecting a lot of us :S
|
On April 15 2011 13:13 Vorlik wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 13:10 Rabiator wrote:On April 15 2011 13:03 Everhate wrote:
For all the hate, Gretorp has been (at least in my opinion) improving on a day-by-day basis. Think a lot of it is just him being a bit uncomfortable and falling back on certain terminology repeatedly, but there were only a few moments that felt forced tonight.
Again, just my opinion, but keep up the work, appreciate most of the changes that have been made so far. For the most part things seem to be trending upward, just a matter of continuing to iron things out. Its NOT hate ... its criticism. That isnt the same thing. Hate is an emotion and comes from the heart, criticism is based on facts and comes from the mind. Actually Gretorp receives hate AND criticism.
I am pretty sure he is competent enough to block out the hate AND that the majority of comments in this thread is criticism and not hate. A guy who calls himself "Everhate" does so for a reason ...
This reminds me of "that other criticised caster" who focused totally on the "hate" and totally ignored the criticism ... at least in all the interviews about it ... and that is the wrong way of doing it.
Ignore the hate and focus on the criticism and TL members are - thanks to the awesome moderator team - wayy more mature than the average internet forum poster and should be given credit for this. The thing is, if "Everhate" calls it hate then he doesnt talk about the majority of the posts here and is thus insulting the people who do post constructive criticism by suggesting that it is hate. The hate posts are usually short and easily ignorable like this one:
On April 15 2011 11:35 Shadowcloak wrote:
KICK GRETORP
|
On April 15 2011 13:35 Snaphoo wrote:
Ah, yes: There's a formidable amount of Protoss and Terran knowledge between iNControl and Gretorp, but the analysis of Zerg play is very much short of the other 2 races. I'd love if they could get a Zerg-focused caster into the rotation.
When Terrans were playing Gretorp was talking about positional play and nuances of TvT tank use. Nice.
When Protoss were playing iNControl offered sharp disagreement with gas management of a delayed 3 gate expand because he predicted Colossi would be out too late to hit the sweet-spot of a timing push. Very cool depth to hear from a pro Toss player.
When Zerg were playing, iNControl offered "Talking to some of the best Zerg in the world, I can tell you that baneling openings aren't good against roaches." ...not quite on the same level.
Go watch Mr.Bitter's 12 Weeks With The Pros and tell me Geoff doesn't know about zerg 
I can see they're both not currently 100% comfortable with their roles after when they are the zerg casts will be much better. I see it as Geoff currently doesn't know he will probably need to lead all zerg based observations.
|
Didn't watch today as I find the league boring in general, but sounds like Incontrol is just going to talk shit to every Korean player. Makes it sound like this league is skippable indeed.
EDIT: In reference to this:
On April 15 2011 12:48 Snaphoo wrote:
I for one am appalled by the lack of professionalism shown by iNControl and Gretorp
Can you imagine Korean GSL casters yelling during a GSL cast "HEY JINRO/HUK! WELCOME TO KOREA! LOSIRA IS YOUR HOST!" as banelings were obliterating them?
Because that's the kind of commentating I saw from iNControl on Axslav/Squirtle.
I would appreciate if casters did not celebrate the loss of any player, Korean or otherwise. Professional disinterest is possible in SC2 commentating; I wish that the casters would exercise some. That being said, I otherwise enjoy iNControl's commentary otherwise, particularly with his articulate explanations of the nuances of Protoss play.
|
On April 15 2011 13:42 NoobSkills wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 13:35 Snaphoo wrote:
Ah, yes: There's a formidable amount of Protoss and Terran knowledge between iNControl and Gretorp, but the analysis of Zerg play is very much short of the other 2 races. I'd love if they could get a Zerg-focused caster into the rotation.
When Terrans were playing Gretorp was talking about positional play and nuances of TvT tank use. Nice.
When Protoss were playing iNControl offered sharp disagreement with gas management of a delayed 3 gate expand because he predicted Colossi would be out too late to hit the sweet-spot of a timing push. Very cool depth to hear from a pro Toss player.
When Zerg were playing, iNControl offered "Talking to some of the best Zerg in the world, I can tell you that baneling openings aren't good against roaches." ...not quite on the same level. Go watch Mr.Bitter's 12 Weeks With The Pros and tell me Geoff doesn't know about zerg I can see they're both not currently 100% comfortable with their roles after when they are the zerg casts will be much better. I see it as Geoff currently doesn't know he will probably need to lead all zerg based observations.
I definitely believe iNControl knows a lot about Zerg, but in Mr. Bitter that's ZvP analysis, which I would expect him to be very knowledgeable about. ZvZ might not be as easy, and certainly didn't seem to be for him tonight-- but you're right, it's early in the process, so perhaps his familiarity with Zerg will shine through more clearly in later casts
|
On April 15 2011 13:44 Ocedic wrote:Didn't watch today as I find the league boring in general, but sounds like Incontrol is just going to talk shit to every Korean player. Makes it sound like this league is skippable indeed. EDIT: In reference to this: Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 12:48 Snaphoo wrote:
I for one am appalled by the lack of professionalism shown by iNControl and Gretorp
Can you imagine Korean GSL casters yelling during a GSL cast "HEY JINRO/HUK! WELCOME TO KOREA! LOSIRA IS YOUR HOST!" as banelings were obliterating them?
Because that's the kind of commentating I saw from iNControl on Axslav/Squirtle.
I would appreciate if casters did not celebrate the loss of any player, Korean or otherwise. Professional disinterest is possible in SC2 commentating; I wish that the casters would exercise some. That being said, I otherwise enjoy iNControl's commentary otherwise, particularly with his articulate explanations of the nuances of Protoss play.
Well, he heavily praised Nada after watching him play. Ensnare didn't get very much hate, but that doesn't really count I guess. Rainbow wasn't hated on as far as I could tell. The Squirtle thing seems to have been him being super happy Axslav won.
|
I really enjoyed todays cast. I think that the quality of the games is surprisingly high thanks to great play from the lesser known players.
I think that the nasl staff need to take a good look at casting in professional sports and filler on espn sports center. There are many lessons that could easily be learned about stage setup and types of material that is good for filler.
Besides that though, the improvement has been amazing so far. At this pace they will be great very soon
|
On April 15 2011 13:34 gr8ape wrote:
This post concerns observer mode.
The observing view is not dynamic enough. If casters would follow the game at a "higher apm" the quality would be up a notch: its basically all you see. Theres audio, mental and visual content: I believe following battles and army movement with more movement would be more exciting and enjoyable. Heres some things:
-Camera rotating
-Unit following lock
-More use of one of either players vision in order to explain choice of strategies, reactions.
-Use of the first person view of players
that would greatly improve the visual experience.
Personally, I despise camera rotating and unit following lock. First person view is too fast to be enjoyable to the casual viewer IMO. Definitely think an independent observer would be great, allows the casters to focus more.
Who observes the TSL matches? Hot_Bid? He is amazing. He clicks on everything, and is always fondling the production bar with his cursor to let us know whats up when the casters are focused elsewhere.
|
post game interviews would be nice to hear about the player's thinking when executing various decisions
|
On April 15 2011 13:50 acurax04 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 13:34 gr8ape wrote:
This post concerns observer mode.
The observing view is not dynamic enough. If casters would follow the game at a "higher apm" the quality would be up a notch: its basically all you see. Theres audio, mental and visual content: I believe following battles and army movement with more movement would be more exciting and enjoyable. Heres some things:
-Camera rotating
-Unit following lock
-More use of one of either players vision in order to explain choice of strategies, reactions.
-Use of the first person view of players
that would greatly improve the visual experience.
Personally, I despise camera rotating and unit following lock. First person view is too fast to be enjoyable to the casual viewer IMO. Definitely think an independent observer would be great, allows the casters to focus more. Who observes the TSL matches? Hot_Bid? He is amazing. He clicks on everything, and is always fondling the production bar with his cursor to let us know whats up when the casters are focused elsewhere.
Yeah that would help push my request in the good direction.
|
On April 15 2011 13:46 Snaphoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 13:42 NoobSkills wrote:On April 15 2011 13:35 Snaphoo wrote:
Ah, yes: There's a formidable amount of Protoss and Terran knowledge between iNControl and Gretorp, but the analysis of Zerg play is very much short of the other 2 races. I'd love if they could get a Zerg-focused caster into the rotation.
When Terrans were playing Gretorp was talking about positional play and nuances of TvT tank use. Nice.
When Protoss were playing iNControl offered sharp disagreement with gas management of a delayed 3 gate expand because he predicted Colossi would be out too late to hit the sweet-spot of a timing push. Very cool depth to hear from a pro Toss player.
When Zerg were playing, iNControl offered "Talking to some of the best Zerg in the world, I can tell you that baneling openings aren't good against roaches." ...not quite on the same level. Go watch Mr.Bitter's 12 Weeks With The Pros and tell me Geoff doesn't know about zerg I can see they're both not currently 100% comfortable with their roles after when they are the zerg casts will be much better. I see it as Geoff currently doesn't know he will probably need to lead all zerg based observations. I definitely believe iNControl knows a lot about Zerg, but in Mr. Bitter that's ZvP analysis, which I would expect him to be very knowledgeable about. ZvZ might not be as easy, and certainly didn't seem to be for him tonight-- but you're right, it's early in the process, so perhaps his familiarity with Zerg will shine through more clearly in later casts
They actually went over all 3 matchups. I'm personally a pretty big fanboy of InControl. I just find him amusing. Makes SOTG like a comedy show. But seriously the ZvAll knowledge he has just wasn't unleashed. Give him some time and I'm sure you will wind up happy with it. When he learns alright Gretorp can only talk about X (broad gestures) and I have to take over the casting it will be in as much depth as you need it.
|
i personally like gretorb compared to alot of caster because he at least knows what he is talking about so it is nice to have 2 pro level commentators... i agree gretorb needs some practice but after a little while he will be fine and i dont really find him annoying or anything
|
Poor gretorp reading all this 
|
Day 3 was excellent, a huge improvement.
Just keep filling in the gaps.
|
On April 15 2011 14:06 gr8ape wrote:Poor gretorp reading all this
Wrong. Improve and all the haters go away. He shouldn't even be listening to most of us. It isn't like he has been casting for years. He has like 3 weeks before anyone should get down on him and from what I've seen he is getting a bit better. Still calling every match the most epic thing you've seen gets a bit annoying.
|
I don't get the point where 2 pros, one of which himself plays in the league, cast the league. Not to bash them, they do a decent job, although far from perfect. But this takes away 5-6 hours from them almost every single day, which they could spend practising.
I also kind of hate the restream for eu, since i cant get myself to not spoil the matches, but I guess this is the only feasible way to do this.
|
Day 3 was better, most of the games were good or at least exciting (poor axslav in g3 ;_;) the sound was a huuuge improvement. Still some bugs to work through but I am actually having confidence that things will get better and better as the show continues. They are definately listening to our comments and sugestions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
