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On April 15 2011 14:25 Barca wrote:
You guys are too hard on local Starcraft.
This isn't the GSL, who borrowed a lot from the presentation of BW.
This isn't Korea, the entire country does not know that the NASL exists.
This is a homegrown, American-made Starcraft league. The more people who pay money and subscribe, the better it will get.
Positive encouragement is great, but there is some serious hate going on in this thread.
So keep throwing money at something until it gets better?
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I don't wish to come off as complaining but, one improvement would be using Digitty as a permanent commentator for NASL instead of temporary and he should replace Gretorp.
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I'd love to see NASL try out a 3 caster dynamic, with the 3rd being a high-level Zerg player; both because it could be interesting to see (and it's proven to work for Korean commentators), and because today's ZvZ showed how shallow Inc and Gretorp's knowledge of Zerg is (not their fault obviously, it's not their race).
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I noticed that they "added" music last night. But I don't know, solving the complaints for having no music with having the terran song looping over and over constantly doesn't feel like a very good solution. I might be wrong cause I didn't follow it all, I fell asleep.
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I don't undestand why they picked a player/commentator doubledeal.
For me Inc is to "deep" with many of the people he has to comment on. I would prefer more "neutral" commentators that are not players.
Gretopr needs some work, but it's not bad (some "professional" casters seem way worse to me)... As soon as he stops the shouting and the UN-BE-LIEV-AB-LE half the issues are gone :p.
Some people here seem really harsh... My only big issue is the sometimes laggy stream, the rest is "ok", nothing that special yet but with some more routine many things will get better automatically.
My concern with the casting (only saw yesterday/european recast because the first day was way to laggy):
They seem to purposefully not critisize the players, if one of them wins it's allways the UNBELIEVABLE play of the winner... Not that the other just failed. There were some games were the failure of one guy made the others win possible (or win as convincingly as he did... Examples would be: Esnare vs Inc Game 3, Darkforce vs Cruncher Game 1).
Inc played game 3 really good but after his totally failed start it was allready Esnares game to lose... But he just stuck with MMM until it was to late (a fault that many terrans seem to do?...) and engaged in one of the worst positions he could have picked.
Please say it when something was "bad"...
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At the start of each game, there's the "two-base" view with the player photos and arrows pointing to the base camera.
This is such a small point... but when the player's at the top right and his camera is at the bottom left, it's confusing when you say "At the top right..." Could you arrange things so that the base view is in the same position as the player is on the map? That is... if the player spawns at the top left, you put the base view at the top left? And that you do this even if they spawn next to each other (you might, for example, have base views at top left and bottom left, and player pictures at top right and bottom right)?
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They need to simply remember who is watching them, its not some bussiness men from a Forbes 500 company, their grandparents or who else. Its simply SC2 fans who are very much alike themselves, just be yourselves and have as much fun as you can.
This is very true. They both look a little bit stressed. Just do it like you are talking about SC with friends, not like some business meeting.
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You guys should try to lighten the mood. You guys are very tight and professional.
One of the reasons its fun to watch day9, tastless and artosis is that they seem to be having a blast just watching the games.
When you listen to baseball commentators, they commentate but they sound like they're there that day to enjoy a good game of baseball.
Gretorp and Incontrol seem to be on edge, worried about messing up. It's important to be professional, but have fun casting.
Diggity being an experienced commentator sounded like he was having fun just being there.
Also, having non starcraft music once the game start is really annoying. Like incredibly annoyinh
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There is a writeup in the news for division 2, which includes reviews of the game.
Is it possible to put those game reviews into the page of the match?
I understand that this is technical, but it would actually be nice to have reviews for every game.
If there isn't enough manpower to do this, it could be done by community reviewers, for small rewards.
If the reviewers could be evaluated, then those who write good ones and a "lot" could be given discount on next seasons NASL pass, or even get a free NASL pass.
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On April 15 2011 13:35 Snaphoo wrote:
Ah, yes: There's a formidable amount of Protoss and Terran knowledge between iNControl and Gretorp, but the analysis of Zerg play is very much short of the other 2 races. I'd love if they could get a Zerg-focused caster into the rotation.
When Terrans were playing Gretorp was talking about positional play and nuances of TvT tank use. Nice.
When Protoss were playing iNControl offered sharp disagreement with gas management of a delayed 3 gate expand because he predicted Colossi would be out too late to hit the sweet-spot of a timing push. Very cool depth to hear from a pro Toss player.
When Zerg were playing, iNControl offered "Talking to some of the best Zerg in the world, I can tell you that baneling openings aren't good against roaches." ...not quite on the same level.
I would agree that they need a high-level zerg there when casting the ZvX games. I was hearing tons of very detailed high-level nuances for the two races that I *don't* play. And for zerg, the race that I do play, I got things like "well, that expansion is gonna give him more resources!".
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so they added music? with terran music looping? i can understand if a terran is playing then yeah, but it should really be matchup specific. Terran>Zerg>Protoss music, just because of the tempo of the music. If you watch GSL, you'll notice that a lot of the time, Artosis and Tasteless are able to give breaks and just allow the viewers to soak things in without feeling like "nothing is going on" because of the music.
In terms of casting, i think its absolutely ridiculous that so many people are hating on the casting. The guys need time to grow into their roles, and theyll figure it out eventually. If i could give a few hints though, I would say that InControl needs to not look at the camera the entire time that gretorp is talking to him, it just makes the conversation look weird, like gretorp is talking to a wall or something. Also, the fact that the booth is so high makes it look like the two of them are hunching over the entire time, maybe raise their seats a little or something?
Personally i think NASL should just take note of those things, theyre doing really well for their first week and everything, but obviously we should be allowed to give suggestions here and there to improve the experience for everyone.
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I think NASL is doing just fine all things considered. I would like it to air a bit earlier as I'm on the East coast.
The most amazing thing they could do though, is get Day9 in the studio, and between games or series, have him breakdown the turning point of the game, similar to a daily. which engagement won it, why, the great things that the player did, etc. It would be awesome to have a quick replay analysis of the awesome moments.
Also, series recaps with highlights, almost sports center style, would be great for people who tune in late.
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Each day is better than the previous.
One of the primary goals should be to ditch Justin.tv ASAP. Get to a point where you have advertisers submitting content to you (video, images, scripts, plugs, etc) and impress the ad communication in a way that is more expected during a televised event (scheduled breaks, product spots, verbal mentions, etc ...).
Justin.tv is a fine service for people who do not have production capabilities, but, as NASL grows you will. So, it should be a goal to find a video hosting service and a streaming delivery platform that is more proprietary to NASL than using a service like JTV, Ustream, et al.
There are excellent services that will allow you to stream independent of a leach service like those listed above. Additionally, you can generate ad revenue by joining programs like AdSense and other video-targeted advertising programs.
tl;dr - Develop your own stream and VOD delivery system. Ditch JTV, ASAP. It is bad.
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On April 15 2011 23:31 TimeSpiral wrote:
tl;dr - Develop your own stream and VOD delivery system. Ditch JTV, ASAP. It is bad. [/u]
It's not that easy, that kind of thing is only possible after NASL really begins to grow in popularity/subscribers.
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On April 15 2011 23:34 weaknurse wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 23:31 TimeSpiral wrote:
tl;dr - Develop your own stream and VOD delivery system. Ditch JTV, ASAP. It is bad. It's not that easy, that kind of thing is only possible after NASL really begins to grow in popularity/subscribers.
Did you just read the TL;DR?
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It is more entertainment for me to watch some live streams here in TL then watch this "show" with 2 ppl commentating replays called NASL. Any 2 random guys with some sc2 knowledge could cast replays with same success. Only my opinion.
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On April 15 2011 20:22 GhostFall wrote:
You guys should try to lighten the mood. You guys are very tight and professional.
One of the reasons its fun to watch day9, tastless and artosis is that they seem to be having a blast just watching the games.
When you listen to baseball commentators, they commentate but they sound like they're there that day to enjoy a good game of baseball.
Gretorp and Incontrol seem to be on edge, worried about messing up. It's important to be professional, but have fun casting.
Diggity being an experienced commentator sounded like he was having fun just being there.
Also, having non starcraft music once the game start is really annoying. Like incredibly annoyinh
Totally agree, Diggity brought so much to the casts. He was professional, exciting and was great entertainment. He's such a top commentator, totally hope he remains on NASL & it would be awesome if he was made the #1 caster.
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I was very happy to hear the game sounds and the music. thanks for fixing that.
One thing to remember is you dont always have to be saying something. its good for you to say something and pause for 5/10 seconds before you say something else. It can help when you are saying the same thing over or you are saying umm. Instead of saying umm, just say nothing for the amount of time it takes to say umm in your head and then continue on your sentence.
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On April 15 2011 23:38 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 23:34 weaknurse wrote:On April 15 2011 23:31 TimeSpiral wrote:
tl;dr - Develop your own stream and VOD delivery system. Ditch JTV, ASAP. It is bad. It's not that easy, that kind of thing is only possible after NASL really begins to grow in popularity/subscribers. Did you just read the TL;DR?
Isn't the point of a TLDR to provide the gist of your argument? If you didn't convey it properly in the TLDR, why include one?
On April 15 2011 18:00 FunkQue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 14:25 Barca wrote:
You guys are too hard on local Starcraft.
This isn't the GSL, who borrowed a lot from the presentation of BW.
This isn't Korea, the entire country does not know that the NASL exists.
This is a homegrown, American-made Starcraft league. The more people who pay money and subscribe, the better it will get.
Positive encouragement is great, but there is some serious hate going on in this thread. So keep throwing money at something until it gets better?
I also don't see why people are treating NASL like a grassroots league. It has a lot of money behind it, and it's clear the intention is to make money. Not saying these are bad things, just facts. The 'grassroots campaign' and 'growing esports' notions are nothing more than marketing tools.
Having said that, the production values of NASL are fairly decent. Are they worth $25? Probably not. Pretty much everyone that argues it is has to say something along the lines of "do it to support esports." However as a free stream, I don't see much to complain about. It's finally a time zone that's friendly for a north american audience.
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On April 15 2011 23:49 Wfat wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 20:22 GhostFall wrote:
You guys should try to lighten the mood. You guys are very tight and professional.
One of the reasons its fun to watch day9, tastless and artosis is that they seem to be having a blast just watching the games.
When you listen to baseball commentators, they commentate but they sound like they're there that day to enjoy a good game of baseball.
Gretorp and Incontrol seem to be on edge, worried about messing up. It's important to be professional, but have fun casting.
Diggity being an experienced commentator sounded like he was having fun just being there.
Also, having non starcraft music once the game start is really annoying. Like incredibly annoyinh Totally agree, Diggity brought so much to the casts. He was professional, exciting and was great entertainment. He's such a top commentator, totally hope he remains on NASL & it would be awesome if he was made the #1 caster.
good point.
gretorp and incontrol alway seem to be so much "underpressure". they try to make it super proffessional and serious and nice but in the end they often try too hard and seem not natural / fun.
diggity just came in "yyeeahh casting! games! lets have fun!" and you could feel that he had a good time.
this is also one of the reasons why tastosis are so good. its the love ,joy and fun for the game and what they do that evryone can immediatly feel. not saying gretorp/incontrol dont have that passion too but right now they barely show that and it doesnt carry over to the viewers.
ofcourse this is nothing you can just "switch on" and lots of that is getting used to the situation , getting more expirience with it and the pressure right now is HUGE etc. but its one of the reasons
why people arent so happy with the casting so far, the spark just doesnt jump over / isnt there yet.
that said its one of the things that only time can fix. so for me thats not one of the primary concerns right now. i still respect/like their casting more then many others and all the technical/production issues are more important right now and easier to fix.
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EPT
