EPT[G] Standard Play Part 1: PvZ iNcontroL Style - Page 5
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PointyHatBeast
Finland21 Posts
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Lush
United States657 Posts
Side note. I play random. Major facepalm on your jack of all trades comment. All it takes is more work, there's distinct advantages and disadvantages to playing random, as well as only playing one race. | ||
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dafnay
Angola375 Posts
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ImmortalTofu
United States1254 Posts
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jstar
Canada568 Posts
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Shifft
Canada1085 Posts
On March 01 2011 15:36 jstar wrote: hmm nothing about broodlords.. by the time its 3rd base some Z's already have brood lords hidden then its GG Blink stalkers and good positioning deal with broodlords just fine. | ||
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dre2k
Netherlands215 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
On March 02 2011 05:34 dre2k wrote: One thing i struggle with when using this build is the lack of ability to scout after your expansion goes up. You can get around this by getting hallucination, but I feel like people shouldn't use it as a crutch when beginning to use the build. It makes you get less aggressive with shark mode, which you would otherwise be scouting with. That in turn lets your opponent drone a little harder and keep better map vision. But once you've gotten good at using shark mode, I think you really should be getting hallucination just for the occasional player who fakes the muta and actually goes roach, or the other way around. | ||
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Celerios
Canada65 Posts
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dre2k
Netherlands215 Posts
On March 02 2011 06:18 iamke55 wrote: You can get around this by getting hallucination, but I feel like people shouldn't use it as a crutch when beginning to use the build. It makes you get less aggressive with shark mode, which you would otherwise be scouting with. That in turn lets your opponent drone a little harder and keep better map vision. But once you've gotten good at using shark mode, I think you really should be getting hallucination just for the occasional player who fakes the muta and actually goes roach, or the other way around. But what if i want to "scout" with shark mode and he runs with a ton of speedlings at me? And what if zerg opens with a ton of speedlings? Whenever a zerg does this and he harasses me a lot at my natural (just after/i'm about to expand) I just get overrun eventually. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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iamke55
United States2806 Posts
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milfhunter
45 Posts
I am at low master, and seems like zergs have a tendency to just drone like crazy anyway so from time to time I just assume they are whoring drones, so I PUSH RIGHT IN with my initial zealot or two and sentries only to find that they have a fuck ton of lings that do a nice surround on me. I have tried getting a hallucinated pheonix to scout how exactly how much speedlings he got before going in to pressure but by then, he would have already COMPLETELY saturated his two bases and can easily churn out 2 loads of lings instantly, so I guess pressuring at that point is meaningless because I am not stopping him from whoring drones and even taking a fucking 3rd. Sure there has been times when I have just push in and killed him REAL early because there is like 6 lings there, but more often I have just been back stabbed in with speed lings or just killed as soon as I get there. What would you say is the best way to pressure with the shark mode? How do you tell how many lings he got before hallucination. It just feels like a freaking coin flip. | ||
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Outtawack311
United States4 Posts
On March 03 2011 09:35 milfhunter wrote: What would you say is the best way to pressure with the shark mode? How do you tell how many lings he got before hallucination. It just feels like a freaking coin flip. I am not as high up as you, but the trick seems to be to always assume if you shark close to his base he won't be droning. As long as you are on at least equal bases, macroing correctly, and denying expansions you don't have to worry about pushing into his base. Most of the time you can read what he is doing by sharking the front of his base. If I see any normal build its usually pretty easy to stop. The beauty of this build is the ability to run away, while still hitting their econ. The 2 things that help me vs zerg who mass speedling the most are leaving one zeal behind to block the ramp from run bys in the beginning and to never push excessively. I sometimes throw up a couple cannons to fight off mutas when I see this because its usually the next step. The cannons also help me shark without worrying as much.. If I don't gather the info I need from poking the front of their base I do add Hallucination or just get some extra obs. The one ridiculous build that actually got me was an ultra/ling some guy threw at me. I was sharking and saw what I thought was enough info to get ready for mutas. 2 did actually come to my base, so I wasn't far off. It was the instant tech switch to ultras after those 2 got there that destroyed me. I coulda used another obs or hal that game..ugh. Edit: One more thing, if you watch replays zerg almost always stops droning when you shark. If you feel the need to push into their base wait for a little more tech then the 2 zeal and 6-8 sentry. | ||
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CountBarq
United States45 Posts
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On March 04 2011 13:33 CountBarq wrote: as a zerg I have to find a way to punish you tosses for goign mass sentry. i will find it. I swear I will! Massing speedlings without letting the toss knows work. When he goes in shark-mode, all you gotta do is flank him, preferrably in open area. This is "blind", though, since if the protoss goes stargate, you'll be in trouble. Also, if the protoss stays defensive because he sees all your lings going towards him, then you have "wasted" larvae. Basically, a surprise attack that requires a lot of larvae. | ||
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SaJa
France84 Posts
And dunno why you talking about incontrol ~~ he didn't invent the build you talking about, and he is neither someone who wins any tournaments, but still a good thread  | ||
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Spitmode
Germany1510 Posts
What I dont really understand or rather what I dont think works well if the zerg player knows that im 3 gate sentry fast expanding (which of course any diamond+ zerg should know) is that shark mode does not really work in my opinion. Sure you can "pressure" abit meaning move out, dance around the watch towers, maybe even poke on the zergs front door a little bit, but you have to be so damn careful because it only takes 1 good surround of zerglings and your complete late game investment (the sentries) is gone in less than 5 seconds. and even if the zerg doesnt surround you, you can't put on any real pressure. if the zerg is good he knows the build which also means that he knows that theres no way on earth that P could kill him right now. in the early stages of shark mode it just takes a few roaches to deal with it combined with a few zerglings and then the zerg can drone up hard again and take a 3rd base really really really easily and theres nothing the protoss can do about it. absolutely nothing. in the later stages of the pre-colossus shark mode (when you have like a few immortals and you just started robotics bay) zerg will already have hydras which absolutely destroy your army, if you would engage them. sure you poke a bit, limit his creep spread killing off some creep tumors etc but again, you have to be so careful not to get caught off guard, if you see his army engaging you absolutely have to forcefield it off because thats the stage of the game where you're waiting for your colossi. of course in the meantime zerg is already safely on at least 3 bases (if not 4) and you can't really take your 3rd until you have 2-3 colossi. i had my fair share of success with this build and im not saying its bad but i dont really like the shark mode thing. i dont think it works very well against a good zerg, because it doesnt apply any real pressure and your "shark mode" army is pretty weak in my opinion and the zerg is free to expand and drone up. of course when youre on 3 base and you got 4-5 colossi + blink stalkers and upgrades and a maxed out army its not that bad anymore, with good forcefield control and good blinks you can put on some real pressure, but again, in my opinion its far from over even then. zerg has such a good economy that he can throw wave after wave after wave at you, and your colossi get sniped anyways by corruptors, at least in most cases they do. what are your thoughts about this? especially shark mode? | ||
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Quochobao
United States350 Posts
There are two pathways into the natural - sentries and canon cannot cover them all. The main entrance into both natural and main is huge - sentry expand is not feasible, either, imho. How do you toss deal with expanding on backwater gulch? | ||
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Outtawack311
United States4 Posts
On March 05 2011 16:54 Quochobao wrote: I have had great success with this build, except on backwater gulch. There are two pathways into the natural - sentries and canon cannot cover them all. The main entrance into both natural and main is huge - sentry expand is not feasible, either, imho. How do you toss deal with expanding on backwater gulch? I can't.. I have won only 2 games I can remember vs zerg on that map. I hate it with a passion. | ||
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