EPTThanks for the writeup <3
[G] Standard Play Part 1: PvZ iNcontroL Style - Page 4
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CaptainHaz
United States240 Posts
Thanks for the writeup <3 | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On February 21 2011 10:40 CaptainHaz wrote: I feel this expo style may be a bit too slow on maps like shakuras or cross positions LT. It almost seems more efficient to just forge FE/15 nex, whichever term you prefer. Outside of that and the slight bump mutas can cause, this build/style/term of choice, is amazingly stable. Thanks for the writeup <3 Yes, for some reason iNControl is so freaking good that even on cross he can use this build and still win. I used 3 gate expo on cross/shakuras and most of the time, got owned, because sentries are too slow (and with speedlings+overlords, he knows everything) and not "threatening" until there are the stalkers for shark mode. I faced this zerg on cross and I knew my zealot wouldn't be able to get there before he has zerglings so I just left it at the wall and so once I started getting sentries (he saw this with a cliff ov), he droned like he never did before. He obviously knew that I would never be able to reach him in time, and even if I did, he can create proper defenses. Also, there are potential back-stabs as well during shark mode. This is 2900 masters, by the way. | ||
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Mystogun
United States392 Posts
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Gator
United States3432 Posts
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Helicopter
Canada39 Posts
On February 20 2011 00:53 archwaykitten wrote: I think that while sticking to one build will almost certainly lead to better results (ie you'll win more games and climb the ladder faster), I don't think it is necessarily the best way to improve. Is a diamond player who experiments with multiple builds across all of the races less skilled at the game than a master league player who perfects one build and then sticks to it? I would argue no. The master level player would win in a "best of 7" tournament if both players chose their races, but the more well rounded player would probably win in a "best of 7" tournament where both players were forced to choose random. All you basically said here is that a random player is better at playing random than a non-random player. Think before you post please. | ||
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SkyLurker
United States1 Post
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b_unnies
3579 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On February 21 2011 10:52 iChau wrote: Yes, for some reason iNControl is so freaking good that even on cross he can use this build and still win. I used 3 gate expo on cross/shakuras and most of the time, got owned, because sentries are too slow (and with speedlings+overlords, he knows everything) and not "threatening" until there are the stalkers for shark mode. I faced this zerg on cross and I knew my zealot wouldn't be able to get there before he has zerglings so I just left it at the wall and so once I started getting sentries (he saw this with a cliff ov), he droned like he never did before. He obviously knew that I would never be able to reach him in time, and even if I did, he can create proper defenses. Also, there are potential back-stabs as well during shark mode. This is 2900 masters, by the way. You could at that stage, skip the third gateway to expand earlier and just chrono boost your nexus non stop, that is what I have been doing everytime I see a 14/15 Hatch. You have the mineral income from chrono boosting to drop your other two gateways and forge right after the expo | ||
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falstag
United States55 Posts
The shark mode is new to me need to try it out. | ||
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Dhalphir
Australia1305 Posts
On February 20 2011 00:53 archwaykitten wrote: One criticism: I think that while sticking to one build will almost certainly lead to better results (ie you'll win more games and climb the ladder faster), I don't think it is necessarily the best way to improve. Is a diamond player who experiments with multiple builds across all of the races less skilled at the game than a master league player who perfects one build and then sticks to it? I would argue no. The master level player would win in a "best of 7" tournament if both players chose their races, but the more well rounded player would probably win in a "best of 7" tournament where both players were forced to choose random. This is a pretty dumb post. "Someone who plays random more often than someone who does not play random will be better at situations where they are forced to play random" NO WAY Can you name a single memorable or significant tournament, ever, in the history of Brood War, or SC2, where participants were forced to choose Random? Key word there, significant. "Some tournament" run by "some guy" does not count. | ||
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TomTomTom.965
Germany62 Posts
i thougt second gas -> zealot and forge after 4 gate | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On February 22 2011 00:33 TomTomTom.965 wrote: are u sure about the build?? i thougt second gas -> zealot and forge after 4 gate Yes, people have discussed this already. Second gas --> zealot if he hatches first, and zealot --> second gas if he pools faster than normal or just 14 gas 14 pools. Forge after 4 gate is correct, but some people like forge first to enter shark mode more quickly or to get the +1 attack faster. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Or is it really just about the speed of reinforcement, or blink stalker mobility? Even so, like I said you'll be having tonnes of Stalkers in any case. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
watching him do this and talk about it on a coaches corner is pretty much how i began to beat any decent zerg ever. so if you are struggling with pvz this is the best style, hands down. | ||
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Khaladas
United States223 Posts
I love the concept of having one general opening and then adapting from there, and it is indeed easier to focus on a small # of builds you plan to use and learn how to adapt them based on scouting. I'm a huge fan of getting hallucinate right after warpgates finished. Even if you are sharking around the map I find myself needing a more firm scouting information to make good decisions. The last thing you want to do ( especially on big maps ) is overextend your army trying to figure out their tech path. I typically hold off on building support bay until I see a hydra den. You really don't need colossi for roaches, and you certainly don't need them if they are going for mutas. If you get hallucinate out quickly, you can wait on that scouting before dropping your robo. A quick 6 gate push with a lot of stalkers after scouting spire is a very strong play. The other thing I would add that I don't see in this guide is that you will probably want to start working void rays into the mix after your initial colossi push. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On February 22 2011 02:25 Khaladas wrote: I'm a huge fan of getting hallucinate right after warpgates finished. Even if you are sharking around the map I find myself needing a more firm scouting information to make good decisions. The last thing you want to do ( especially on big maps ) is overextend your army trying to figure out their tech path. Also phoenix-scouting alternative attack-paths while "sharking" around is a really good approach to not die repeatedly vs counter-run-bys. Nothing more annoying than to clear one xel naga-tower on xel naga caverns just to find out that lings have run along the other side and are now happily crunching probes. (Obviously you can't split your army at that point). Furthermore, the hallucinated phoenix can tell you if you even need to move out at all - some zergs just build enough units early on so that you can stay defensive and gear up to take an earlier third yourself. Or tech more quickly. I'm always quite disappointed to see players only using one phoenix early on and then the next one in mid-game to check for a third. With 7+ sentries you really can afford 1-2 more hallucinations earlier. Unless you are going for a massive timing push with multiple rows of force-fields to both split and trap everything of course. | ||
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iChau
United States1210 Posts
On February 22 2011 02:25 Khaladas wrote: I can tell you that this build has helped out my PvZ tremendously since I had my coaching session with InControl. I love the concept of having one general opening and then adapting from there, and it is indeed easier to focus on a small # of builds you plan to use and learn how to adapt them based on scouting. I'm a huge fan of getting hallucinate right after warpgates finished. Even if you are sharking around the map I find myself needing a more firm scouting information to make good decisions. The last thing you want to do ( especially on big maps ) is overextend your army trying to figure out their tech path. I typically hold off on building support bay until I see a hydra den. You really don't need colossi for roaches, and you certainly don't need them if they are going for mutas. If you get hallucinate out quickly, you can wait on that scouting before dropping your robo. A quick 6 gate push with a lot of stalkers after scouting spire is a very strong play. The other thing I would add that I don't see in this guide is that you will probably want to start working void rays into the mix after your initial colossi push. I find that getting colossi forces him to get less mutas for more (useless) corruptors since colossi + upgrades one shot lings | ||
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awwnuts07
United States621 Posts
I doubt I'll be able to use the build exactly as outlined here, but I think I'll be able to use a lot of it and tailor it to my preferences. Thanks a bunch | ||
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bankai
362 Posts
A stupid question though...when you say just practice 1 build and learn to tweak it for different scenarios, does this essentially mean u just change the timing of your each building/unit or do you actually change what you build?? If you change what you build, isnt that essentially a different BO ur learning?? E.g. Say I practice 2 gate robo, but need to tweak for defending a 6 pool, normally i build a forge/cannons. So going by artosis' argument, should i instead just build my 2 gate earlier?? So basically my question is, does tweaking mean changing ur timings or is it actually learning slight modifications of ur standard build (i.e. building different things to adjust)? | ||
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TheAwesomeAll
Netherlands1609 Posts
 I think the safest build in pvp is the 3 stalker to 3gate robo build but i cant wait to hear your opinion about that. | ||
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