EPT
Nice thread.[G] Standard Play Part 1: PvZ iNcontroL Style - Page 2
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Crushgroove
United States793 Posts
Nice thread. | ||
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.Enigma.
Sweden1461 Posts
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
On February 19 2011 20:52 andrewwiggin wrote: Just a question but, do you need 3 saturated bases for the heavy colossi push? I thought two was plenty enough? 2 gets the job done, but its easier to replenish your armies and set up for the late game & adjust for transitions if you do get the 3rd down. | ||
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
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b_unnies
3579 Posts
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
I have been struggling with PvZ for a while now and was looking for a way to pimp my play up Incontrol style but couldn't find anything really... His stream seems to be at impossible times for europeans and I don't know of any VODs (are there VODs?!) Going to look into it more deeply lateron.. again, thank you <3 | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
Although I have to admit that I'm not a big fan of the very fast 4th gate, I found that I'm never really able to support the 4 gates at this point in time. Considering you want to build a cannon, start the +1 weapons upgrade, chrono-boost probes and constantly add pylons (you mustn't trade armies at this point). Unless the zerg goes really speedling-heavy I prefer throwing down the robotics earlier after the hallucinated phoenix has confirmed roach-play and then add my 4th gate. But that's obviously just a personal preference. | ||
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wonderwall
New Zealand695 Posts
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On February 19 2011 22:09 sleepingdog wrote: Really well done write-up, this should help many toss-players at refining their PvZ playstyle. Although I have to admit that I'm not a big fan of the very fast 4th gate, I found that I'm never really able to support the 4 gates at this point in time. Considering you want to build a cannon, start the +1 weapons upgrade, chrono-boost probes and constantly add pylons (you mustn't trade armies at this point). Unless the zerg goes really speedling-heavy I prefer throwing down the robotics earlier after the hallucinated phoenix has confirmed roach-play and then add my 4th gate. But that's obviously just a personal preference. Roach- Roach/Ling all-ins tend to happen before Hallucinate is finished | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On February 19 2011 21:51 b_unnies wrote: eh i dont think u should call it the incontrol style because this general idea was done all the way back pre-roach buff patch He did it pre-roach aswell. I'm pretty sure he's the inventor of the build, at least he optimized and popularized it. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On February 19 2011 23:02 Dommk wrote: Roach- Roach/Ling all-ins tend to happen before Hallucinate is finished with 1 or 2 canons and tones of forcefields u should be good even without that quicker 4th gate | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On February 19 2011 23:07 Geo.Rion wrote: with 1 or 2 canons and tones of forcefields u should be good even without that quicker 4th gate Should be fine yes, but you tend to get a lot of your Sentries sniped in the process, really need to reinforce quickly. Staying back, letting the nexus take damage while you chrono 4 gates, that extra gate is pretty noticeable | ||
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bleu329
United States16 Posts
On February 19 2011 21:56 FliedLice wrote: Oh wow I love you... I have been struggling with PvZ for a while now and was looking for a way to pimp my play up Incontrol style but couldn't find anything really... His stream seems to be at impossible times for europeans and I don't know of any VODs (are there VODs?!) Going to look into it more deeply lateron.. again, thank you <3 he is putting VODs of his streams on http://www.youtube.com/incontroltv | ||
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zooalt
104 Posts
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hardethanolninja
United States22 Posts
The variation on this that I prefer, is to get a forge after my first gateway and delay gas a bit. It gives you the option to harass a zerg fast expand with cannons, or possibly fast expand yourself. Also, if you scout a really early pool, it makes you a bit more robust against that too. I usually have +1 weapons before I start "sharking." All-in-all, a great write-up. I wish we had more "standard" play against Terran too...I'm tired of being nervous the entire matchup =). | ||
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Chaosvuistje
Netherlands2581 Posts
Therefore, thank you. Also, excellent write up  I can definitely see some quality in this. | ||
iChau
United States1210 Posts
It's kinda obvious, but just making sure. Economy vs Stability? Well, which build do you think is better in close air such as Lost Temple? | ||
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kcdc
United States2311 Posts
This build is a little too conservative for my taste in that it's safe against everything, but doesn't try to squeeze out every possible edge against what Z is actually doing, so I don't use this build per se, but I do use a lot of its concepts. For example, I believe you can safely 1-gate expand while skipping your first zealot against hatch first. Just note the gas timing and go straight for 1-gate stalker pressure and get your nexus and a wall-off up while you pressure. This opening seems much stronger economically than the 2-gas sentry expand and also forces Zerg to make some early defense. IMO, the 2-gas sentry expand falls behind hatch first economically, so if you aren't able to block Z's expo, you might switch openings. Because I typically expand off of 1 gas, I only make 5 sentries whereas iNc says he likes 8. IMO, 5 gives you plenty of energy to forcefield what you need to forcefield, but the 2-gas sentry expand gives you an excess of gas early when you can only spend it on sentries. I suspect this gas excess is where the magic #8 came from, but I don't know if sentries #6-8 are a good reason to get that extra gas. It's something worth discussing anyway. I focus on immortals more than collosi. I might be the only P player in the world who isn't crazy about collosi, but when a good Z player has time to get a balanced army with corruptors, collosi just feel like a liability that gives you a short-lived and expensive DPS burst. I typically get a few collosi eventually, but I like to apply pressure with gateway+immortal and take my third before getting my support bay. I believe I typically start blink and +2 weapons before I make my first collosus. This feels like it lets me apply better pressure and get a faster 3rd, but maybe I'm just wrong. | ||
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unit
United States2621 Posts
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archwaykitten
90 Posts
I think that while sticking to one build will almost certainly lead to better results (ie you'll win more games and climb the ladder faster), I don't think it is necessarily the best way to improve. Is a diamond player who experiments with multiple builds across all of the races less skilled at the game than a master league player who perfects one build and then sticks to it? I would argue no. The master level player would win in a "best of 7" tournament if both players chose their races, but the more well rounded player would probably win in a "best of 7" tournament where both players were forced to choose random. Also, "standard play" advocates say things like "once you know your build in and out, you won't have to think about it when playing" and "you won't need to make decisions on the fly". However, no matter how standard you try to keep things, situations are going to arise where your plan has gone off the rails and you have to think on your feet. I think it is precisely in those situations where the non-standard players excel. They spend every game training how to think on their feet and make good decisions in weird situations. That skill might be useful less often than having really crisp macro, but it's a skill nonetheless. One race, one build is the best way to win, not the best way to improve. A jack of all trades is exactly what a lot of players want to be. | ||
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