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On September 16 2011 05:12 Binabik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 04:22 Legen wrote:
I know there was a warning of not bumping if i dont have a valid reason but I do. Being that this was made in February and given all the patch notes and the extinction of the protoss death ball (stalker colossus, from what im told) is this thread even worth paying much attention since the game has changed to much ZvP? Is this still worth following? thanks The opening is still ok, but the "Let's see if I can attack there"-style absolutely gets destroyed by a single Infestor catching 3Sentrys and3Stalkers. Even Blink and ForceFields aren't going to help you then, you just lost. Just scout if he goes for Infestors (Hallucination/Observer). If he does, get Colossus as fast as possible. If he doesn't you are facing MutaLing which forces you to defend in your own base anyways, so there's no chance for you to poke. The WarpPrism is going to get used more and more often though. IMO the new PvZ style is to turtle a bit but still try to harrass as much as possible and then go for a stronger army (Good upgraded 200/200 Stalker Colossus is still going to win against everything but Infestor/Broodlords) while expanding safely.
Yes but everyone goes infestor broodlords now :/
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On September 16 2011 05:32 Legen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2011 05:12 Binabik wrote:On September 16 2011 04:22 Legen wrote:
I know there was a warning of not bumping if i dont have a valid reason but I do. Being that this was made in February and given all the patch notes and the extinction of the protoss death ball (stalker colossus, from what im told) is this thread even worth paying much attention since the game has changed to much ZvP? Is this still worth following? thanks The opening is still ok, but the "Let's see if I can attack there"-style absolutely gets destroyed by a single Infestor catching 3Sentrys and3Stalkers. Even Blink and ForceFields aren't going to help you then, you just lost. Just scout if he goes for Infestors (Hallucination/Observer). If he does, get Colossus as fast as possible. If he doesn't you are facing MutaLing which forces you to defend in your own base anyways, so there's no chance for you to poke. The WarpPrism is going to get used more and more often though. IMO the new PvZ style is to turtle a bit but still try to harrass as much as possible and then go for a stronger army (Good upgraded 200/200 Stalker Colossus is still going to win against everything but Infestor/Broodlords) while expanding safely. Yes but everyone goes infestor broodlords now :/
Yeah just go and attack them as soon as you see Corrupters spawning. At that point their army will be weakend by about 20 supply which can be enough for you to straight up kill everything if you control perfectly.
Archons are good as well, just dont let them all get Fungald!
I also tried to add StarGate + 3 Voidrays a couple of times. Voidrays coming from another direction against a no anti-air army is really funny ^^
e: How to know when they add BroodLords
-Greater Spire (^^)
-Wasting units on your mainball (good zergs are going to drop them somewhere)
-First time they use larva after a long period of time
Having an observer around a Hatchery can be super awesome, because when you see your opponent reinforcing with "weak" units like Zerglings/Roaches you can just go an defend while getting the tech heavier army!
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Where is the best place to place the cannon? I'm assuming the forge and gateway are used to wall off the ramp of your main or natural, right?
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On October 28 2011 22:43 Huckle wrote:
Where is the best place to place the cannon? I'm assuming the forge and gateway are used to wall off the ramp of your main or natural, right?
I've been using this build for a couple months now, and I like putting the cannon where it can fire upon both my expo's mineral line and shoot out to the front, less for blocking. Often if the zerg is smart he'll try to run some lings in as you leave, if the map is decent for it, just that cannon with a+clicking your probes will defend a handful of lings. If your expo is wide open though, either put up a second cannon, or if you fear he'll use ALOT of lings to sneak in as you're sharking, put up a gateway as you leave to complete the wall off, like you're closing the door. I forget who I saw do it, but I've seen some pros put an extra pylon or cannon or both behind their nat mineral line, also to work as a block so that there was only one path through, which involved going between or by 2 cannons.
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nice thread,thx,it's quite helpful
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The build and the ideas may be still valid, but the credentials are a bit outdated I would say. Incontrol is far from being one of the best PvZers on the planet nowadays.
So... who would be a good example of a good PvZ?
HuK? He says it's his worst matchup, but he's quite good at it. Sage? JYP? HerO maybe, he's fairly consistent in PvZ and his play often revolves around warpprisms.
I feel like the ideas and the builds behind a standard PvZ are fairly simple (more than in PvT) but micro is actually the deciding factor. One bad forcefield or blink, and you're swarmed by infinite amounts of roaches.
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This entire thread is outdated simply because it was written in the time before the (Unnecessary) warpgate nerf.
Nothing you do feels as effective anymore. And once you do get the collosus you can't really be as aggressive and still be safe because of infestors. This was written before anyone used banelings OR infestors and just sat on 200/200 roaches until they lost.
Until someone completely reworks and updates the thread so it is valid in November 2011 then people looking here for a guide are better off doing whatever they were before. Sure, you will definitely win games (PS you can win games as well with 2 base mass cannon 5 stargate pheonix screw you gas) with this out of date strategy but if iNcontroL did this vs IdrA today he would get raped.
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On October 29 2011 23:41 Geovu wrote:
This entire thread is outdated simply because it was written in the time before the (Unnecessary) warpgate nerf.
Nothing you do feels as effective anymore. And once you do get the collosus you can't really be as aggressive and still be safe because of infestors. This was written before anyone used banelings OR infestors and just sat on 200/200 roaches until they lost.
Until someone completely reworks and updates the thread so it is valid in November 2011 then people looking here for a guide are better off doing whatever they were before. Sure, you will definitely win games (PS you can win games as well with 2 base mass cannon 5 stargate pheonix screw you gas) with this out of date strategy but if iNcontroL did this vs IdrA today he would get raped.
I agree, though on Xel Naga I think this strat is still OK since you cannot FFE.
On all other maps I feel FFE is best. 1 Gate possible.
Edit: Thought a bit more about it. I feel like this is still a great strat for people who are relatively new and just look for a way to play PvZ. it teaches to macro while constantly doing something with your army etc.
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On October 28 2011 22:43 Huckle wrote:
Where is the best place to place the cannon? I'm assuming the forge and gateway are used to wall off the ramp of your main or natural, right?
You want your first cannon directly nehind your forge (and gateway), with no space inbetween.
On maps without a full wall (such as metal), you want a second cannon to cover your mineral line.
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Thanks muchly for this post. Been having a much easier time with zerg since watching some of these iNcontroL training vids. Thanks again for posting.
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Great post! I've been looking to get back into Protoss and I found this very informative. I want to play standard as to learn good habits in place of getting really good at assorted cheeses.
However, as the post hasn't been updated in 11 months, is it safe to assume that all the information is still current becuase is listed in the recommended strats for PvZ? I imagine it's still true at the core, but I wanted to know if there had been any recent developments in the metagame I should be looking out for. I read in some of the comments that HuK or HerO might have better ideas. Are there other standard guides I should be looking for? We noobs would love a little direction on this matter.
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Italy12246 Posts
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Brotoss indeed! :D Thanks for all the info. I'll read up and start crushing.
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dont necro threads... cmon
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It's funny this thread gets bumped as I am deciding to go back to this build after going for FFE's for so long now.
Nony recently talked about his distaste for forge expand builds, and how they often get the protoss stuck in a situation of 120 supply vs 200 supply. The meta shifted away from these 3 gate expo builds and into FFE builds for faster econ, but zergs now know that Forge expand builds are just a ticket for them to drone to their heart's desire for ATLEAST minutes. When a smart zerg sees you forge expanding, he knows the limited followups you have to it, and can handle all of them without much deviation from his route.
Thus I am going back into more 3gate expo, or atleast 1gate expo builds,which in my opinion can still have 6 gate pushes just as powerful as FFE builds, but gets your tech faster, so that if you want to, after "sharking" as in this build (which is a wonderful thing), your robo or templar tech are faster than FFE builds, due to getting your core out at a standard pace rather than delayed with FFE's.
In my limited time since going back to this build, I'm still experimenting with followups, how to pressure, etc. But it seems to have more options and be much less predictable, as well as getting to your various tech paths much faster.
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EPT
