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Milkis wrote:
The defendants also pointed out that the English contracts included an article about a transition [4] from Starcraft to Starcraft 2, and requested that the prosecution explain themselves. The judges also ordered that this happen.
If it is true than this would be a nail to the coffin of this case (not talking about fan rage here). It would mean that there are differences between a contract in english and korean which should be exactly the same (since either english or korean version should be translation of the other one). If it was true judge could dismiss the whole case due to illegality of such a contract cause this wouldnt be a simple translation error in contract but omitting a part of contract in the translated version.
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I didn't study international private law that much, but i wouldn't be surprise if contracts usually give one language of reference if an issue appears which could be interpreted on different ways. You're never sure having a perfect translation, almost every treaties and decisions of the UN have this kind of problems (for exemple on UN security council resolutions on israeli colonies, it is written that they have to go back "from territories" in english, which can mean from all territories or just some of them, whereas in french the resolution says clearly from all territories -"des territoires"-, just an exemple, i'm not arguing any point there). I'm pretty sure businessmen try to avoid this kind of interpretation problem, and put the english contract as the one to be read in courts. I don't have time to look for it however, and i'm not sure.
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On January 28 2011 19:10 psycow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 18:57 RvB wrote:On January 28 2011 18:48 scion wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=39412Although Daily esports hates blizzard, apparently "transition" was the right word to use. According to this article, Blizzard and Gretech has been actively trying to shut down SC1 league in order to make SC2 leagues. EDIT: It's probably really one-sided story, Daily esports has been known to support Kespa, but interesting development regardless. If it's clearly biased you can better not post it, it will only end up in a flame war towards Blizzard anyway. I read it. Not biased at all. The only thing that can be construed "biased" in the article is it links the previous unreasonable demands made by Gretech in their negotiations with OGN/MBC with the "transition" clause in the Gretech-Blizzard contract. It also repeats the OGN/MBC position that, 1. Gretech has no right to sue for damages before they signed the Blizzard-Gretech contract last May. 2. Since Blizzard-Gretech never planned a SC/BW league or competition, they have no grounds for damages because SC/BW doesn't compete directly with GSL. From the article on Daily e-Sports, the English wording in the contract: Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becomes available for play.
Well what's bias about it is that like you said, the article blatantly assumes that Gretech is actively trying to hinder OGN/MBC's SC1 broadcast by making unreasonable demands, which was position reported by KeSPA but not confirmed by Blizzard.
Also the tone of the article is openly hostile.
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Even being a starcraft 2 player in find it shameful to force the transition to it. This whole trial is a joke btw, blizzard couldn't be more greedy...
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Am i the only one that doesn't understand a single sentence from that whole mumbo-jumbo?
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Seriously, I am kind of confused. I just hope the judge is a smart man that knows how to handle this.
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Wow thats like asking a pro player that a noob can beat them
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I find the whole situation pretty sad... The main party suffering here is definitely the fans.
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On January 28 2011 19:14 scion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 19:10 psycow wrote:On January 28 2011 18:57 RvB wrote:On January 28 2011 18:48 scion wrote:http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=39412Although Daily esports hates blizzard, apparently "transition" was the right word to use. According to this article, Blizzard and Gretech has been actively trying to shut down SC1 league in order to make SC2 leagues. EDIT: It's probably really one-sided story, Daily esports has been known to support Kespa, but interesting development regardless. If it's clearly biased you can better not post it, it will only end up in a flame war towards Blizzard anyway. I read it. Not biased at all. The only thing that can be construed "biased" in the article is it links the previous unreasonable demands made by Gretech in their negotiations with OGN/MBC with the "transition" clause in the Gretech-Blizzard contract. It also repeats the OGN/MBC position that, 1. Gretech has no right to sue for damages before they signed the Blizzard-Gretech contract last May. 2. Since Blizzard-Gretech never planned a SC/BW league or competition, they have no grounds for damages because SC/BW doesn't compete directly with GSL. From the article on Daily e-Sports, the English wording in the contract: Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becomes available for play. Well what's bias about it is that like you said, the article blatantly assumes that Gretech is actively trying to hinder OGN/MBC's SC1 broadcast by making unreasonable demands, which was position reported by KeSPA but not confirmed by Blizzard. Also the tone of the article is openly hostile.
from what i recall wasn't gom/mbc or ogn doing negotiations awhile back
one of the main points of interest was what time proleague was aired? gom wanted that slot. pushing proleague to another timeslot?
i may be wrong.
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Damages and IP rights violations lol what a joke XD.
So did blizzard purposely omit that section about sc1/2 transition from the korean translation?
That's so dirty lol...won't even comment on the legality of it =/
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Courtroom drama at it's best, but it pisses me off it's come to this. I'm just wondering why Blizzard is suddenly so interested in this IP rights violation stuff? Just trying to force SC2 on everyone and destroy BW while at it?
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On January 28 2011 16:57 prodikl wrote:
Well props for gretech for getting the rights properly.
I don't blame Blizzard for being a little annoyed about SC2 being shown on TV for profit (to OGN and MBCgame), but dude, they need to get over that asap and strike a deal to promote that on tv.
That or gretech's going to be getting a heck of a lot more ad revenue, like, fast.
Also, they're sueing for 350,000,000won?? Thats only $350,000, probably chump change to those big companies. Thats like 1/25,000th of one month of their WOW income revenue.
Either way i hope the outcome = more sc2 playing on the screen on the treadmill at my gym in korea lol
....... read, retard.
On January 28 2011 17:24 endlives wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 17:02 SmoKim wrote:can't they just smoke a joint or something and get along  ? No sir, you WILL play sc2 and you WILL enjoy it...or else.
this actually made me giggle 
*****
in the end of the day, we now have until march for the next trial. as someone said, that will allow for atleast one 2011 OSL/MSL season, which is good.
in the grand scheme of e-sports, i personally feel that blizzard is making a terrible mistake at trying to hurt such a sensitive industry. however, this does not make kespa a saint either. please do not quote me, but i know for a fact that kespa tried their hardest to ban and tax sc2, and threaten progamers to stick/renew their contracts with bw gaming teams, otherwise there will be consequences (not quoted, once again). the typical kespa communist state.
neither party is a saint, nor a villain. both are being selfish. notice how the judge said in the first meeting if there was a way both parties could come to a negotiation? they refused because they are stubborn and want to prove a point. this case does nothing but hurt the fans in the end of the day.
blizzard's original suit against IP right violation made perfect sense to me; royalty fees can and should be distributed for content of such nature (in my opinion; please don't be offended from my thoughts). however, i agree with kespa's argument that went along the lines of "you don't pay a soccer ball company royalty fees to kick a soccer ball on a soccer field". the entire case is fucked. we have no clue what is truly going on, and to be blunt, i don't think blizzard does anymore either. i think the first trial was a definite boost for blizzard, and now the second trial is a definite boost for kespa.
we can just wait and see what happens. here is my final verdict and feeling on what blizzard should do if they are truly out just to push sc2, instead of kill bw (i am neutral and dont want to comment on if its true or not):
1) end this case immediately. they are wasting more time and money, and just making bw more notorious and infamous, which is hurting their principle argument. if it is IP right violation that they seek reparations for, they should have negotiated in the first case, or at least not transitioned into "damages", which are far harder to prove.
2) step up your funding and support for GOMtv. i know that you already are sinking tens of millions of dollars (probably) into Gretech, but it needs more. if you seriously are that adamant about wanting sc2 to become THE e-sport of the world, commit yourself 100%; make GOMtv an actual cable television channel similar to OnGameNet and MBCGame. give them more money to get an advertising and marketing campaign on social networking sites, instead of having nick and dan beg us to tweet and change our statuses (i love them, they are my best friends), create qualifyers internationally, and not just domestically in korea, encourage and fund foreign progame teams to make houses in korea (EG, ROOT, MYM, etc). if you want to make such a big deal out of this case, you better be willing to spend every dime you have to do it right.
best of luck to whichever party wants to preserve esports. because at this point, both of them are failing to respect the game in my opinion.
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This transition thing sure won't work in my case: I will never touch another Blizzard game if they shut down BW.
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On January 28 2011 19:02 NHY wrote:
Actual wording according to the article:
Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms [sic] available for play.
This is just hilarious. It's even worse than I thought.
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Blizz/greetech sue MBC/OGN for damages is insane, I belive MBC/OGN made alot profit for blizz making BW so popular.
I will have to read the BW EULA, to check if there is clause which forbid broadcasting. If there is no such clause blizzard are pretty much screwed.And all this trial is only gettin more and more anger at blizzard/gretech/sc2 in korea.
This is like you are football fan then someone come and want everyone to stop playing football becouse they want everyone to play hockey and not football.Yes blizzard own IP rights of SC:BW. But they only restrict distribution of the IP. Broadcasting doesn't realy violate any IP law.
If we compare the IP rights of computer game to music industry:
If you are musician who use software like Fruity Loops to produce music, you own the IP rights of the song you produced,you are violating the IP rights of FL if you didn't buy the software.
If you are gamer that play starcraft and you produce games, you own the IP rights of this games, and you are violating IP rights if the game copy was unlicensed.
This are how things stand. This is the reason why SC2 EULA has statements that claim all content,replay/games/maps are property of Blizzard. I hope after Blizzard lose the trial against MBC/OGN. MBC/OGN sue them for damages due to blizzard claims.Then I hope New blizzard EULA get attacked in EU/KR and US courts. Becouse Blizzard is violating human rights.
They may create the tools but they can't claim all the content created by other people that used their tools. Imagine if Microsoft claim that every book written in MS World i Intelectual propery of Microsoft. Or every video edited with Adobe Premier is owned by Adobe.
So consider all this when you are wondering which side to pick. Becouse all that blizzard is doing is selfish and greedy. And it is against what we as community want. We want esports to grow, blizzard don't want esport to grow blizzard want to own esports.
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I think Blizzard is digging itself deeper into the hole by pursuing this (and suing for damages??). Even if they win, they alienate a huge fanbase in the country that made their Starcraft franchise huge. They can also forget about ever getting their GSL on TV (at least without a 3rd channel from an independent company). Winning this still alienates them, and will (could) lead to the downfall of the SC2 community in Korea.
On January 28 2011 19:02 NHY wrote:
Actual wording according to the article:
Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms [sic] available for play.
Wow... just wow.
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On January 28 2011 18:39 scion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 18:30 Frankon wrote: Milkis wrote:
The key point of the trial was related to who the damages would be paid to, the duration of the damages, and the compensation. This is because even though Gretech only got a license on May, Blizzard and Gretech both requested compensation from damages. In response, the Judges ordered that the damages be split between the prosecuting parties [3], and that they recalculate the amount requested and the duration of the damages and then resubmit the damages. Rather interesting part. I wonder how would they calculate damages? Will it be the lost broadcasting fees from the start of SC1? Or from the time of Gretech Blizzard deal? It would be rather interesting if MBC and OGN would ask for blizzard to give out information about its sales of SC1 in korea (not the highly manipulated number Blizzard said in one of the interviews) so they can compare it with their time of broadcasts and if it influenced it or not. and another also.. Blizzard Gretech already requested 350,000,000 won, which honestly isn't THAT much. My guess from the original article is that MBC requested to see why Blizzard wants be involved when they sold the rights to Gretech. Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 18:30 Frankon wrote:Milkis wrote:
The judge also ordered the prosecution to prove the fact that defendants had violated IP rights.
and Milkis wrote:
...judges also requested that Blizzard submit any precedent cases regarding IP rights violations in America that is related...
Kind of like it. Looks like the judge has a backbone compared to the US judges and we will finally have some non-controversial verdict regarding IP rights. The part i dont like it is the second part. Asking for a American IP precedence cases is rather bad. I think most people heard about some rather hilarious verdicts of American courts regarding IP rights... not to mention that some of those verdicts were announced by judges that were miss-informed by persecuting layers... I'm pretty sure this is just for reference, Korea uses civil law, not common law. Precedents have little meanings on judge's decision.
Even if they have a civil law system (had no idea) its not uncommon to ask for precedents when theres a case like this. Its non unheard at all in a civil law system for the parts to presents sentences (jurisprudence) from the higher courts. Its only used an argument though and its not bonding for the judge. What i find interesting is that in this case it was the judge the one who took the initiative and asked for it.
In my country for instance (civil law system) its quite common for lawyers to present foreign jurisprudence when the case is about laws that have been adapted/based from other countries which tends to happen in pretty much any case regarding "new technologies".
I hope that was understandable ^^
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If there is a time to enter, there is a time to leave.
If there is a time to stand up, there is a time to sit down.
If there is a time to rise up, there is a time to fall down.
If there is a time to begin, there is a time to end.
Nobody can rule the world forever.
Blizzard, I am disappointed in you.
Your golden age that fascinated the entire gaming world surely seems to have passed.
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On January 28 2011 21:42 moopie wrote:I think Blizzard is digging itself deeper into the hole by pursuing this (and suing for damages??). Even if they win, they alienate a huge fanbase in the country that made their Starcraft franchise huge. They can also forget about ever getting their GSL on TV (at least without a 3rd channel from an independent company). Winning this still alienates them, and will (could) lead to the downfall of the SC2 community in Korea. Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 19:02 NHY wrote:
Actual wording according to the article:
Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms [sic] available for play. Wow... just wow.
It doesn't matter what they do at this point. When they did try to get GSL on TV, KeSPA pressured the broadcasting stations to pull out or suffer severe consequences.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES49479 Posts
I don't know really,but aren't you guys reading in a little too much....seriously Blizzard doesn't even have an upper hand in this case.....
Best Case Scenario:
Blizzard loses case and activison will stop strong-arming them and maybe even breakup...
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On January 28 2011 22:13 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 21:42 moopie wrote:I think Blizzard is digging itself deeper into the hole by pursuing this (and suing for damages??). Even if they win, they alienate a huge fanbase in the country that made their Starcraft franchise huge. They can also forget about ever getting their GSL on TV (at least without a 3rd channel from an independent company). Winning this still alienates them, and will (could) lead to the downfall of the SC2 community in Korea. On January 28 2011 19:02 NHY wrote:
Actual wording according to the article:
Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms [sic] available for play. Wow... just wow. It doesn't matter what they do at this point. When they did try to get GSL on TV, KeSPA pressured the broadcasting stations to pull out or suffer severe consequences.
Blizzard 'failed' in this regard only because of the way they went about it. Because the power they had (or thought they had) they went into the SC2 launch with both guns blazing, making giant demands of KeSPA and the broadcasting companies in a "my way or the highway" approach. Had they sought out to work with the existing korean scene on this instead of trying to capitalize on its succeess and try to smother it to get it out of the way there could have been a very civil co-existance and eventual transition.
As of now, staying in this fight is bad PR and hurts their playerbase. The best they could do is modify their unreasonable demands, stop trying to kill off the competition, and then get back to being a game developer which is what they are good at.
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EPT
