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On January 28 2011 22:23 moopie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 22:13 teamsolid wrote:On January 28 2011 21:42 moopie wrote:I think Blizzard is digging itself deeper into the hole by pursuing this (and suing for damages??). Even if they win, they alienate a huge fanbase in the country that made their Starcraft franchise huge. They can also forget about ever getting their GSL on TV (at least without a 3rd channel from an independent company). Winning this still alienates them, and will (could) lead to the downfall of the SC2 community in Korea. On January 28 2011 19:02 NHY wrote:
Actual wording according to the article:
Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms [sic] available for play. Wow... just wow. It doesn't matter what they do at this point. When they did try to get GSL on TV, KeSPA pressured the broadcasting stations to pull out or suffer severe consequences. Blizzard 'failed' in this regard only because of the way they went about it. Because the power they had (or thought they had) they went into the SC2 launch with both guns blazing, making demands of KeSPA and the broadcasting companies in a "my way or the highway" approach. Had they sought out to work with the existing korean scene on this instead of trying to capitalize on its succeess and try to smother it to get it out of the way there could have been a very civil co-existance and eventual transition. As of now, staying in this fight is bad PR and hurts their playerbase. The best they could do is modify their unreasonable demands, stop trying to kill off the competition, and then get back to being a game developer which is what they are good at.
True, but it's difficult to tell whether or not they had already tried the co-existence approach in the beginning. At least from their side of the story, they claimed to have been trying to negotiate w/KeSPA for 3+ years and were met with hostility. It's also quite possible, that all of that is PR bullshit. No one really knows what happened, except it turned sour at one point or another and here we are.
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imo it's just corporation rules made by blizzard , and as i understood we have a proof now that they want to kill bw
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On January 28 2011 22:31 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 22:23 moopie wrote:On January 28 2011 22:13 teamsolid wrote:On January 28 2011 21:42 moopie wrote:I think Blizzard is digging itself deeper into the hole by pursuing this (and suing for damages??). Even if they win, they alienate a huge fanbase in the country that made their Starcraft franchise huge. They can also forget about ever getting their GSL on TV (at least without a 3rd channel from an independent company). Winning this still alienates them, and will (could) lead to the downfall of the SC2 community in Korea. On January 28 2011 19:02 NHY wrote:
Actual wording according to the article:
Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms [sic] available for play. Wow... just wow. It doesn't matter what they do at this point. When they did try to get GSL on TV, KeSPA pressured the broadcasting stations to pull out or suffer severe consequences. Blizzard 'failed' in this regard only because of the way they went about it. Because the power they had (or thought they had) they went into the SC2 launch with both guns blazing, making demands of KeSPA and the broadcasting companies in a "my way or the highway" approach. Had they sought out to work with the existing korean scene on this instead of trying to capitalize on its succeess and try to smother it to get it out of the way there could have been a very civil co-existance and eventual transition. As of now, staying in this fight is bad PR and hurts their playerbase. The best they could do is modify their unreasonable demands, stop trying to kill off the competition, and then get back to being a game developer which is what they are good at. True, but it's difficult to tell whether or not they had already tried the co-existence approach in the beginning. At least from their side of the story, they claimed to have been trying to negotiate w/KeSPA for 3+ years and were met with hostility. It's also quite possible, that all of that is PR bullshit. No one really knows what happened, except it turned sour at one point or another and here we are.
KeSPA officials said that blizzard broke off the negotiations every time sc2 was being delayed because they wanted everything to coincide with the release of the game (which implies they wanted OGN/MBC to switch to sc2) and they also publish the ridiculous list of blizzard's demands.
Blizzard then made a conference to deal with KeSPA's breaking the NDA (the above), and they declined neither of the claims made by KeSPA.
If KeSPA lied to us, then blizzard would've certainly said so.
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On January 28 2011 22:43 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 22:31 teamsolid wrote:On January 28 2011 22:23 moopie wrote:On January 28 2011 22:13 teamsolid wrote:On January 28 2011 21:42 moopie wrote:I think Blizzard is digging itself deeper into the hole by pursuing this (and suing for damages??). Even if they win, they alienate a huge fanbase in the country that made their Starcraft franchise huge. They can also forget about ever getting their GSL on TV (at least without a 3rd channel from an independent company). Winning this still alienates them, and will (could) lead to the downfall of the SC2 community in Korea. On January 28 2011 19:02 NHY wrote:
Actual wording according to the article:
Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms [sic] available for play. Wow... just wow. It doesn't matter what they do at this point. When they did try to get GSL on TV, KeSPA pressured the broadcasting stations to pull out or suffer severe consequences. Blizzard 'failed' in this regard only because of the way they went about it. Because the power they had (or thought they had) they went into the SC2 launch with both guns blazing, making demands of KeSPA and the broadcasting companies in a "my way or the highway" approach. Had they sought out to work with the existing korean scene on this instead of trying to capitalize on its succeess and try to smother it to get it out of the way there could have been a very civil co-existance and eventual transition. As of now, staying in this fight is bad PR and hurts their playerbase. The best they could do is modify their unreasonable demands, stop trying to kill off the competition, and then get back to being a game developer which is what they are good at. True, but it's difficult to tell whether or not they had already tried the co-existence approach in the beginning. At least from their side of the story, they claimed to have been trying to negotiate w/KeSPA for 3+ years and were met with hostility. It's also quite possible, that all of that is PR bullshit. No one really knows what happened, except it turned sour at one point or another and here we are. KeSPA officials said that blizzard broke off the negotiations every time sc2 was being delayed because they wanted everything to coincide with the release of the game (which implies they wanted OGN/MBC to switch to sc2) and they also publish the ridiculous list of blizzard's demands. Blizzard then made a conference to deal with KeSPA's breaking the NDA (the above), and they declined neither of the claims made by KeSPA. If KeSPA lied to us, then blizzard would've certainly said so.
All of this is PR from both sides after the hostilities started. People make way too many inferences from incomplete information. I really have no comment to this, because I haven't seen a single non heavily anti-Bliz post from you in any of the threads on this topic. At this point however, I do agree that this lawsuit is pretty much worthless.
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If Blizzard can't collect royalties for the use of their product by Korean companies to generate revenue, then why would they care about (Korean) e-sports?
Blizzard is in the buisness of making money, not producing free content. Seems to me that if this ruling goes against Blizzard, they'll likely start focusing more on subscribtion based games. This case would make it extremely difficult for them to make a good return on their investments into the SC scene.
I guess i just don't really understand the additude that Blizzard should get absolutly nothing for the use of SC. If Blizzard gets a cut of the profits then that provides an incentive for Blizzard to continue to make and improve their games. Plus it seems to me that there is an element of fairness in a ruling for Blizzard.
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On January 28 2011 22:51 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 22:43 maybenexttime wrote:On January 28 2011 22:31 teamsolid wrote:On January 28 2011 22:23 moopie wrote:On January 28 2011 22:13 teamsolid wrote:On January 28 2011 21:42 moopie wrote:I think Blizzard is digging itself deeper into the hole by pursuing this (and suing for damages??). Even if they win, they alienate a huge fanbase in the country that made their Starcraft franchise huge. They can also forget about ever getting their GSL on TV (at least without a 3rd channel from an independent company). Winning this still alienates them, and will (could) lead to the downfall of the SC2 community in Korea. On January 28 2011 19:02 NHY wrote:
Actual wording according to the article:
Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becoms [sic] available for play. Wow... just wow. It doesn't matter what they do at this point. When they did try to get GSL on TV, KeSPA pressured the broadcasting stations to pull out or suffer severe consequences. Blizzard 'failed' in this regard only because of the way they went about it. Because the power they had (or thought they had) they went into the SC2 launch with both guns blazing, making demands of KeSPA and the broadcasting companies in a "my way or the highway" approach. Had they sought out to work with the existing korean scene on this instead of trying to capitalize on its succeess and try to smother it to get it out of the way there could have been a very civil co-existance and eventual transition. As of now, staying in this fight is bad PR and hurts their playerbase. The best they could do is modify their unreasonable demands, stop trying to kill off the competition, and then get back to being a game developer which is what they are good at. True, but it's difficult to tell whether or not they had already tried the co-existence approach in the beginning. At least from their side of the story, they claimed to have been trying to negotiate w/KeSPA for 3+ years and were met with hostility. It's also quite possible, that all of that is PR bullshit. No one really knows what happened, except it turned sour at one point or another and here we are. KeSPA officials said that blizzard broke off the negotiations every time sc2 was being delayed because they wanted everything to coincide with the release of the game (which implies they wanted OGN/MBC to switch to sc2) and they also publish the ridiculous list of blizzard's demands. Blizzard then made a conference to deal with KeSPA's breaking the NDA (the above), and they declined neither of the claims made by KeSPA. If KeSPA lied to us, then blizzard would've certainly said so. All of this is PR from both sides after the hostilities started. People make way too many inferences from incomplete information. I really have no comment to this, because I haven't seen a single non heavily anti-Bliz post from you in any of the threads on this topic. At this point however, I do agree that this lawsuit is pretty much worthless.
How are my posts "anti-blizzard"? It's true that I hate blizzard for what they're doing and sc2 has been a large disappointment for me, but I have never made any baseless claims, so there's nothing "anti-blizzard" in my posts.
And like I said, blizzard made a media conference dedicated specifically to handle the NDA breaking. If anything KeSPA claimed regarding the negotiations was false, blizzard would've ripped it to shreds.
On January 28 2011 22:55 BobbyT wrote:
If Blizzard can't collect royalties for the use of their product by Korean companies to generate revenue, then why would they care about (Korean) e-sports?
Blizzard is in the buisness of making money, not producing free content. Seems to me that if this ruling goes against Blizzard, they'll likely start focusing more on subscribtion based games. This case would make it extremely difficult for them to make a good return on their investments into the SC scene.
I guess i just don't really understand the additude that Blizzard should get absolutly nothing for the use of SC. If Blizzard gets a cut of the profits then that provides an incentive for Blizzard to continue to make and improve their games. Plus it seems to me that there is an element of fairness in a ruling for Blizzard.
Blizzard didn't just want some royalties (which OGN/MBC agreed to pay). They demanded the control over the whole scene (teams, players, broadcasts, etc.).
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On January 28 2011 16:37 GG_NO_RE wrote:
oh yeah, blizz sure loves sc1 and has no hopes of crushing it into oblivious.
give me a fuckin break
It's so sad to see so much people crying at a Blizzard conspiration to destroy BW. Common...
Blizzard doesnt want harm to any of their games, Im pretty sure they are very happy with BW succeeding. If there is an evil behind it, it should be Activision and Kotick.
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5003 Posts
Updated it with some bits from DES i found credible
loooooool blizzard, SO BAD
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50753 Posts
Seriously there has to be something not right?Could you really think that Gretech and Blizzard's law departments and the chaebol lawyers are so bad to miss something that big that could cause a PR outrage?
Something's not right.....
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On January 28 2011 23:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Seriously there has to be something not right?Could you really think that Gretech and Blizzard's law departments and the chaebol lawyers are so bad to miss something that big that could cause a PR outrage?
Something's not right.....
The terms of the contract were technically under NDA. They weren't supposed to become public in the first place.
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On January 28 2011 22:55 BobbyT wrote:
If Blizzard can't collect royalties for the use of their product by Korean companies to generate revenue, then why would they care about (Korean) e-sports?
Blizzard is in the buisness of making money, not producing free content. Seems to me that if this ruling goes against Blizzard, they'll likely start focusing more on subscribtion based games. This case would make it extremely difficult for them to make a good return on their investments into the SC scene.
I guess i just don't really understand the additude that Blizzard should get absolutly nothing for the use of SC. If Blizzard gets a cut of the profits then that provides an incentive for Blizzard to continue to make and improve their games. Plus it seems to me that there is an element of fairness in a ruling for Blizzard.
Blizzard didn't want to collect any royalties back in 2001 nor they sponsor any tournament or anything in korea. Just find statistic how many SC:BW copies were sold in korea(StarCraft sold over 9.5 million copies across the globe, with 4.5 million of these being sold in South Korea quote from wikipedia). This isn't royalties?
Blizzard get money for selling the game. Blizzard didn't develop anything for BW for alot of years.
Blizzard got paid for what they have done,and the price they asked for a copy of BW.
Why they should not get cut of the profits? Did they create the maps that are popular and being played and broadcasted?
Do Blizzard pay wages to the players,teams,tournament organisation teams,comentators and other people involved? Do they advertise this tournaments ?
Blizzard never care about esport they start to care after KeSPA,MBC,OGN developed this from scratch and Blizzard just want to take it over. I would be happy to see Blizzard developing esport scene back in 2001 outside korea and then claim IP rights back then. Not now when SC2 is released and they want to takeover all the player base and all the fan base.
Blizzard developed great game. This game made blizzard what it is now but, I feel they forgot where they start from, and what made Blizzard sucessfull.
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On January 28 2011 17:53 SmoKim wrote:terrible terrible damage!
ROFLOL!
Thanks a lot for the translation, Milkis. <3
To me it kinda seems like OGN/MBC have Blizzard right by the balls. At the very least they certainly have their work cut out for them to win this court case.
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United States7481 Posts
I actually feel like the DES bit makes Blizzard look better than the ambiguous wording that was there before. It doesn't look malicious, but that may just be the idealist in me speaking.
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Hahaha, Blizzard are failing here.  Full-blown evidence that they are indeed trying to kill BW.
Let the games co-exist please!
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5003 Posts
The DES bit makes it a bit more interesting, a very clarifying update to the OP was made
The contract that had that clause was between Blizzard and Gretech, an agreement that was signed in May. So this 100% confirms that Blizzard and Gretech wants a transition from Starcraft to Starcraft 2. MBC picked up on this and slammed Blizzard about it, asking why they would want their rights protected if they have no intention of doing anything with it.
Absolute revulsion, I definitely did not wish Blizzard would really be that greedy about this entire thing but honestly I'm not surprised judging by the fact that Blizzard suddenly brings this to court and forces Gretech to stop negotiating with KeSPA when the negotiations were going smoothly between Gretech and KeSPA. Absolutely retarded.
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I wonder what would happen if OGN/MBC simply decided to drop all BW tourneys...
I understand that Blizzard have rights to all the showing StarCraft had without compensation to them, but what would StarCraft actually be without the organization of those specific people that made it so?
I imagine it would still be popular, but not the same...
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- The judge also ordered the prosecution to prove the fact that defendants had violated IP rights.
wait, what? isn't that the whole freaking case? el oh el
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50753 Posts
On January 29 2011 00:49 Milkis wrote:
The DES bit makes it a bit more interesting, a very clarifying update to the OP was made
The contract that had that clause was between Blizzard and Gretech, an agreement that was signed in May. So this 100% confirms that Blizzard and Gretech wants a transition from Starcraft to Starcraft 2. MBC picked up on this and slammed Blizzard about it, asking why they would want their rights protected if they have no intention of doing anything with it.
Absolute revulsion, I definitely did not wish Blizzard would really be that greedy about this entire thing but honestly I'm not surprised judging by the fact that Blizzard suddenly brings this to court and forces Gretech to stop negotiating with KeSPA when the negotiations were going smoothly between Gretech and KeSPA. Absolutely retarded.
Well this pretty much means that the case from this point on is pretty much a slam dunk for KeSPA's side.
Do you guys know what's weird tomorrow is supposed to be a day when both BW fans and SC2 fans get together for a OSL and GSL grand finals party.
It's just sad and I hope both communities get along with each other because of this
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It's kind of strange to me if that argument works in Korean courts. It doesn't seem like "Well, you weren't using it..." would pass for an argument against someone claiming their IP in an American court.
It's also kind of strange to me that Blizzard said that they couldn't discuss it in the middle of a lawsuit when the language looks like it gives them plenty of leeway wrt what they mean by making a smooth transition, at least in the translation. The way I read it, it COULD mean that all they want is for the companies involved not to inhibit anyone from switching from SC1 to SC2, with an assumption that players would indeed switch over of their own accord. It could also mean "get your shit together for the SC2 league". I think Blizzard in the past has expressed specifically that they don't want to kill Brood War, and I'd rather not assume that they want to, but who knows?
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On January 28 2011 15:34 aru wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 15:26 Milkis wrote:
- The defendants also pointed out that in the English contracts included an article saying that there be a transition from Starcraft to Starcraft 2, and requested that the prosecution explain themselves. The judges also ordered that this happen. That's pretty hilarious.
Pretty sad if you ask me, seems like Blizzard is actively trying to kill off SCBW.... This is sickening.
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