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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 29 2011 03:40 m3rciless wrote: wait blizzard is suing for 350k US? who gives a shit about that kind of money. Actually, it's 350 million Korean won, which converts into $313k US dollars. It may be a small fee compared to the majority of high-profile lawsuits in the US, though $313k is big money when dealing with the frugal e-sports scene. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50118 Posts
On January 29 2011 03:44 eviltomahawk wrote: Actually, it's 350 million Korean won, which converts into $313k US dollars. It may be a small fee compared to the majority of high-profile lawsuits in the US, though $313k is big money when dealing with the frugal e-sports scene. MBC Game barely make that kind of money......it's kinda the main reason I make fun of them.....They don't make enough an they don't get great sponsors because of it(Bigfile,PDPop,etc) | ||
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aru
183 Posts
On January 29 2011 03:30 eviltomahawk wrote: Blizzard has been in negotiations with KeSPA and OGN/MBC for years since 2007 about broadcasting rights, yet none of those negotiations have ever been successful. The IP rights issue is way too old for it to be considered as a "conspiracy" for Blizzard to stifle all other competition. [I don't like Kespa so I'm going to assume a bunch of things to put them in a negative light while telling people they shouldn't assume what Blizzard's position is.] Starcraft 2 was announced in 2007. KeSPA claims any time there was a delay with Starcraft 2, Blizzard would delay negotiations. Two can spin anecdotal evidence! | ||
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Falling
Canada11349 Posts
[1] anti-Bliz rather than just pro-BW, else it would include people such as myself that only plays BW these days. | ||
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cocoa_sg
Singapore296 Posts
On January 29 2011 03:03 xBillehx wrote: I agree that people are overreacting. A clause requesting Gretech to make the "transition" smooth can refer to many different things. So far they've helped any pro-gamer who switched from SC1 to SC2 and accepted them with open arms, rather than ban them. There are some people here assuming it means the goal is to kill BW but the other possibilities are far too easily overlooked. I don't see anything about forcing the transition, only making it smooth. I certainly don't think it's "100% proof Blizzard wants to kill BW" as many keep preaching. It's pretty lame that people are eating up any little anti-Blizzard sentiment they can find. The entire thing has never been black & white but to most BW elitists- if it fucks with BW it can go to hell. When it comes to Blizz vs BW stuff people jump on the BW side far too fast and promote explanations that may not even be true. Remember, Daily e-Sports was the journalist outlet that slandered and attempted to tarnish NaDa's name for switching. It's hard to take anything they say without a big chunk of salt. There are very GOOD reasons why we, "the BW elitists" as you so like to call us even though most of us like me also watch the GSL, are "eating up any little anti-Blizzard sentiment they can find". I can list them below: 1) The failure of B.net 2.0 2) The strong-arm tactics that Blizzard is flexing over OGN/MBC in this case 3) Failure of Blizzard to address fans' complaints to make SC2 better (please look at Fomos for an example - they were once so pro-SC2 but now they are very anti-Blizzard now; refer to a previous post by someone else for quotes - only playXP is like still pro-SC2 left) 4) Being too greedy and wanting too much control of a e-sports scene that was built up, from scratch, not by them but by the love of fans and broadcasters as well as Kespa in S.Korea 5) Overall, being too inept to bother with e-sports as a whole; look at GomTV's handling of GSL (just throwing money at GSL is not going to magically make it a big e-sports in future) I could list several other reasons why we are losing faith and patience with Blizzard. Their actions have been more disgusting and a waste of time as of late. Sorry, but we can only tolerate so much until "enough is enough"! -_- EDIT: Below is the quoted post to support Point 3 (hidden in a spoiler to make post shorter): + Show Spoiler + On January 28 2011 18:40 psycow wrote: Well, there already is precedent in the previous Blizzard vs KeSPA case where Blizzard lost. Now Blizzard is using a proxy to do their bidding but looks like it's not going well for them. On a related note, an article posted after the litigation one on FOMOS: http://fomos.co.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=114592&db=issue Some BS about a video interview with Dustin "WHAT'S COOOOOOOOL" Browden on new mini-games for SC2... [SC2 articles not worth translating...] The most interesting part of this article are the replies. To paraphrase most of them: [LOLwut?] [FAIL] [FIX THE F*CKING GAME FIRST] [Desperation!!!!] [SC2 FAILED GAME. AHAHAHHAHAHA!!!...] Funny how FOMOS started very enthusiastic about SC2 but now has turned extreme anti. The only place left pro-SC2 in Korea is playXP. Slowly but surely that place is turning too. Bad game is just bad. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
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Antoine
United States7481 Posts
On January 29 2011 05:07 cocoa_sg wrote: There are very GOOD reasons why we, "the BW elitists" as you so like to call us even though most of us like me also watch the GSL, are "eating up any little anti-Blizzard sentiment they can find". I can list them below: 1) The failure of B.net 2.0 2) The strong-arm tactics that Blizzard is flexing over OGN/MBC in this case 3) Failure of Blizzard to address fans' complaints to make SC2 better (please look at Fomos for an example - they were once so pro-SC2 but now they are very anti-Blizzard now; refer to a previous post by someone else for quotes - only playXP is like still pro-SC2 left) 4) Being too greedy and wanting too much control of a e-sports scene that was built up, from scratch, not by them but by the love of fans and broadcasters as well as Kespa in S.Korea 5) Overall, being too inept to bother with e-sports as a whole; look at GomTV's handling of GSL (just throwing money at GSL is not going to magically make it a big e-sports in future) I could list several other reasons why we are losing faith and patience with Blizzard. Their actions have been more disgusting and a waste of time as of late. Sorry, but we can only tolerate so much until "enough is enough"! -_- EDIT: Below is the quoted post to support Point 3: 1. This is completely arbitrary, there are a great number of successes in bnet2.0. No system is perfect, and they're working to improve it every day. 2. I'd hardly call them strong-arm tactics when ogn/mbc simply ignored them 3. Failure to address complaints? They continue to patch the game to improve balance, hotfix to fix glaring issues, etc. As to the supposed changing sentiment of fomos, it's always been a bw-centric website. And there's not only playxp, there's also thisisgame. Finally, as to the person you quoted, he's hardly an impartial source. See: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184044#4 for an example of how he feels. 4. This is unproven and probably not true, the stated terms involved very little control and requested only an acknowledgement of IP rights and payment of usage fees. 5. What exactly is wrong with GSL? It's been very well run so far. | ||
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palexhur
Colombia730 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5545 Posts
On January 29 2011 05:22 Antoine wrote: 4. This is unproven and probably not true, the stated terms involved very little control and requested only an acknowledgement of IP rights and payment of usage fees. What have you been smoking? "1. Set the contract term for using its games to 1 year. 2. Prior approvals about all league operations such as contracting sponsorship, marketing materials, broadcasting plan. 3. License fee for running of league and all license fee of sponsorship inducement. 4. Ownership of all broadcasted programs, program videos. 5. Right to audit KeSPA." and "6. Contracts between KeSPA players and Blizzard that override any contracts between KeSPA and their players." I guess they were too lenient... | ||
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Antoine
United States7481 Posts
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
And the games are hosted via a blizzard bot | ||
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Manimal_pro
Romania991 Posts
it would be like all the gosus of war3 + bw + the new players of sc2 united in one madness | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On January 29 2011 05:55 Manimal_pro wrote: from a business point a view it kind of makes sense that blizzblizz is trying to kill sc1, i feel sorry for the fans but i would really want to see jaedong flash and co duke it out with the sc2 gosus it would be like all the gosus of war3 + bw + the new players of sc2 united in one madness No, it doesn't make any sense. SC:BW is still selling well(for a game that old), hell Blizzard is still selling it on their store. Overall the whole notion of Blizzard wanting to kill BW is ridiculous. They just want a share of that cake that is e -sports. The only thing to question is if the are doing right or wrong with that. But seriously guys, Blizzard is not a temper tantrum throwing kid, neither is Kespa lets stop trying to assume that they are acting on emotion. BW is still profitable to Blizzard, they want to promote SC2(hence the painless transition to SC2. A comment that many have pointed out can be taken many ways) We are just overreacting, I do think this whole lawsuit is moronic but both parties want to protect their product as much as they can. This overall is a PR mess for Blizzard(well, not that much, look up in any big gaming website and this is not really that huge for the mainstream) and the longer this drags out the more Blizzard will look like the bad guy here. As for the quality of SC2 vs BW, come one guys, opinions? I enjoy both of them. Well, the whole point of my whole rant is: Lets not overreact and assume stuff that may or may not be there.This is not a black and white issue. | ||
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King[Neikos]
Costa Rica506 Posts
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Nayl
Canada413 Posts
On January 29 2011 00:49 Milkis wrote: The DES bit makes it a bit more interesting, a very clarifying update to the OP was made The contract that had that clause was between Blizzard and Gretech, an agreement that was signed in May. So this 100% confirms that Blizzard and Gretech wants a transition from Starcraft to Starcraft 2. MBC picked up on this and slammed Blizzard about it, asking why they would want their rights protected if they have no intention of doing anything with it. Absolute revulsion, I definitely did not wish Blizzard would really be that greedy about this entire thing but honestly I'm not surprised judging by the fact that Blizzard suddenly brings this to court and forces Gretech to stop negotiating with KeSPA when the negotiations were going smoothly between Gretech and KeSPA. Absolutely retarded. I've already said it before in the thread, do not take DES article 100% seriously. They are known pro-KeSPA media and most of the story is extremely biased. It's as if the lawyer representing MBC/OGN wrote the article. Not to mention DES only posts negative articles about SC2 and the GSL. Blizzard must have some kind of argument otherwise they wouldn't have pursued a lawsuit. The clause mentioned was NOT the main focus of session yet DES focuses on it and amplifies it. They also outright assumes about Gretech's so called "unreasonable" claims being due to this clause. Until we have some story from Blizzard/Gretech's sides, we should not get swayed by KeSPA's propaganda. | ||
Milkis
5003 Posts
On January 29 2011 07:19 scion wrote: I've already said it before in the thread, do not take DES article 100% seriously. They are known pro-KeSPA media and most of the story is extremely biased. It's as if the lawyer representing MBC/OGN wrote the article. Not to mention DES only posts negative articles about SC2 and the GSL. Blizzard must have some kind of argument otherwise they wouldn't have pursued a lawsuit. The clause mentioned was NOT the main focus of session yet DES focuses on it and amplifies it. They also outright assumes about Gretech's so called "unreasonable" claims being due to this clause. Until we have some story from Blizzard/Gretech's sides, we should not get swayed by KeSPA's propaganda. You do not need to tell me what is biased or what is not. Secondly, if you pay attention to DES -- they are pretty good at reporting facts (in fact they will report things that other media outlets do not) -- you just have to dodge their interpretation. You can call it propaganda if you wish, and you can simply put it down as "propaganda" -- but what positive signal has Blizzard sent about their actions that makes you believe them? In the meanwhile we know how KeSPA operates pretty damn well from all the years they've had and honestly this is one case where I actually find them more trustworthy than Blizzard -- Blizzard has definitely had their share of propaganda too (in fact, they ripped it DIRECTLY from the rumors that perpetuated pgr21 when they blasted KeSPA -- you have to admit when Blizzard just rehashes community arguments that were pretty well shut down they probably don't have anything. I don't know where this blind Blizzard faith is coming from. Assuming Blizzard is a capable company that actually has a case, what stops them from actually talking about it other than empty words like "oh we really like brood war, it takes a special place in my heart" when there are a pile of evidence that Blizzard abandoned Brood War ages ago. KeSPA is filled with propaganda, you're right. But they at least have something to base it on. Blizzard has absolutely nothing in this but empty worthless words. If Blizzard truly cares for Brood War they have more than ample ways of proving that they care. They haven't done shit about it. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
On January 29 2011 05:55 Manimal_pro wrote: from a business point a view it kind of makes sense that blizzblizz is trying to kill sc1, i feel sorry for the fans but i would really want to see jaedong flash and co duke it out with the sc2 gosus it would be like all the gosus of war3 + bw + the new players of sc2 united in one madness Yeah, lets force them to play that game instead. Lets see what happens with the passion for the game, the leagues, the fans etc. There is a reason why Brood War is a natural hit that doesn't need a huge PR campain and a lawsuit against competing e-sports to be played/watched/loved. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On January 29 2011 05:22 Antoine wrote: 1. This is completely arbitrary, there are a great number of successes in bnet2.0. No system is perfect, and they're working to improve it every day. 2. I'd hardly call them strong-arm tactics when ogn/mbc simply ignored them 3. Failure to address complaints? They continue to patch the game to improve balance, hotfix to fix glaring issues, etc. As to the supposed changing sentiment of fomos, it's always been a bw-centric website. And there's not only playxp, there's also thisisgame. Finally, as to the person you quoted, he's hardly an impartial source. See: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184044#4 for an example of how he feels. 4. This is unproven and probably not true, the stated terms involved very little control and requested only an acknowledgement of IP rights and payment of usage fees. 5. What exactly is wrong with GSL? It's been very well run so far. 1.No system is perfect, but seeing as you had a search engine and a perfect Warcraft III example(one with fully functional chat channels, and a simple search engine), while Bnet 2.0 lacked both these(still lacking the search engine). The technology is here yet it is not utilized?Instead we get Facebook, a nice addition but a search engine for custom games is still nowhere to be seen, however I must say that Bnet 2.0 is not all bad and it has awesome features. (such as the MM system) 2.Blizzard ignored BW for years, now they suddenly want a piece(IMO has to do with the rise of sc2, but thats another discussion). 3.They do not adress the complaints thoroughly or fast, but I can't disagree with them that much on this, however new maps should have been added way faster(or should be) to the map pools. The community has asked this since day 1 and still no larger maps have been put into the map pool. GSL might test new ones but these days, with technology allowing it, It should be done much faster. 4.Perhaps you are right, and they are not greedy. However given recent revelations about the SC2 pushing out BW scheme that seems unlikely. Now I for 1 will always still be a Blizzard fan and I hope that it is Activisions decision in here and not Blizzard doing that. 5.The GSL has NOT been doing fine in S-Korea,. There have been reports of the GSL hiring a stadium for 5000 people and only 500 people attended. The Koreans vastly complain about GSL's(Their opinion, leaving my own out of here) inferiority to BW(Evidenced by Fomos). Yes the GSL does well outside of Korea, but not in Korea itself. So far its not going bad for GSL but its not good in particular either. However given that the SC2>>BW(I hope not) is true then I don't see the GSL doing much better for Blizzard anytime sooner. | ||
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Nayl
Canada413 Posts
On January 29 2011 07:32 Milkis wrote: You do not need to tell me what is biased or what is not. Secondly, if you pay attention to DES -- they are pretty good at reporting facts (in fact they will report things that other media outlets do not) -- you just have to dodge their interpretation. You can call it propaganda if you wish, and you can simply put it down as "propaganda" -- but what positive signal has Blizzard sent about their actions that makes you believe them? In the meanwhile we know how KeSPA operates pretty damn well from all the years they've had and honestly this is one case where I actually find them more trustworthy than Blizzard -- Blizzard has definitely had their share of propaganda too (in fact, they ripped it DIRECTLY from the rumors that perpetuated pgr21 when they blasted KeSPA -- you have to admit when Blizzard just rehashes community arguments that were pretty well shut down they probably don't have anything. I don't know where this blind Blizzard faith is coming from. Assuming Blizzard is a capable company that actually has a case, what stops them from actually talking about it other than empty words like "oh we really like brood war, it takes a special place in my heart" when there are a pile of evidence that Blizzard abandoned Brood War ages ago. KeSPA is filled with propaganda, you're right. But they at least have something to base it on. Blizzard has absolutely nothing in this but empty worthless words. If Blizzard truly cares for Brood War they have more than ample ways of proving that they care. They haven't done shit about it. Its not a blind faith, I'm calling to wait on actual facts. As a translator, you shouldn't cherry pick the information just because you are with KeSPA. You've neglected to mention a LOT of Korean netizens doesn't take DES article seriously just because how biased they write their article. What positive things have they wrote about GSL? I remember only thing they really wrote was how much failure the final was and about Choya's scandal. we do NOT know it as a fact that Gretech is making "unreasonable demand" because Blizzard told them to kill SC1, yet DES blatantly talks like this as if its a fact. This article is just there to stir up anti-blizzard sentiment as it is clear in the tone. I've linked you article from Naver News which is much more neutral source, and I don't see how you can possibly disagree with that. | ||
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Milkis
5003 Posts
Its not a blind faith, I'm calling to wait on actual facts. As a translator, you shouldn't cherry pick the information just because you are with KeSPA. You've neglected to mention a LOT of Korean netizens doesn't take DES article seriously just because how biased they write their article. What positive things have they wrote about GSL? I remember only thing they really wrote was how much failure the final was and about Choya's scandal. And do you see me use those sources? Or their interpretation? Before you accuse me of cherry picking, what part of my source is cherry picked? People like you and even netizens in Korea are absolutely hilarious -- you don't even know where I used DES and you're immediately jumping up and down calling me biased. Do you know how ridiculously hilarious that is? You have no fucking idea, and maybe if you read the two main sources (ThisisGame article, which is written by Shim Hyun, who has a Pro SC2 slant, who is also part of the SC2 esports association in Korea) then you will realize that the DES was only a source for three minor things that are pretty much fact 1) That the clause in question was referring to one between Blizzard and Gretech 2) The actual text of the clause in question 3) The response Blizzard lawyers gave And yet you have the absolute galls to call me cherry picking without even knowing this? What part of the DES sources I wrote is biased? Care to tell me, since you all so know everything? I'm absolutely and utterly tired of having to defend myself every time I frigging translate or write something. It's absolutely hilarious. Do you see me using the DES interpretation as a fact? Go read any of my translations and look. Do your fucking research before trying to call me out, holy fucking shit. | ||
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