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On January 29 2011 07:49 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +
Its not a blind faith, I'm calling to wait on actual facts.
As a translator, you shouldn't cherry pick the information just because you are with KeSPA. You've neglected to mention a LOT of Korean netizens doesn't take DES article seriously just because how biased they write their article. What positive things have they wrote about GSL? I remember only thing they really wrote was how much failure the final was and about Choya's scandal.
And do you see me use those sources? Or their interpretation? Before you accuse me of cherry picking, what part of my source is cherry picked? People like you and even netizens in Korea are absolutely hilarious -- you don't even know where I used DES and you're immediately jumping up and down calling me biased. Do you know how ridiculously hilarious that is? You have no fucking idea, and maybe if you read the two main sources (ThisisGame article, which is written by Shim Hyun, who has a Pro SC2 slant, who is also part of the SC2 esports association in Korea) then you will realize that the DES was only a source for three minor things that are pretty much fact 1) That the clause in question was referring to one between Blizzard and Gretech 2) The actual text of the clause in question 3) The response Blizzard lawyers gave And yet you have the absolute galls to call me cherry picking without even knowing this? What part of the DES sources I wrote is biased? Care to tell me, since you all so know everything? I'm absolutely and utterly tired of having to defend myself every time I frigging translate or write something. It's absolutely hilarious. Do you see me using the DES thing as a fact? Go read any of my translations and look. Do your fucking research before trying to call me out, holy fucking shit.
I'm not jumping up and down, why are you getting upset over this?
I'm simply mentioning the fact that you linked the DES article in your OP, and you flaming blizzard.
Absolute revulsion, I definitely did not wish Blizzard would really be that greedy about this entire thing but honestly I'm not surprised judging by the fact that Blizzard suddenly brings this to court and forces Gretech to stop negotiating with KeSPA when the negotiations were going smoothly between Gretech and KeSPA. Absolutely retarded.
^ that is direct quote from you, but of course, you are entitled to your opinion and this is not in the OP as news so I'm fine with that.
But to link DES article in the OP as "source" is rather misleading.
I have absolutely no problem with the Thisisgames article. I never claimed I knew everything, I said we should wait on Blizzard/Gretech's side of the story.
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5003 Posts
Yup because putting DES as source invalidates your entire article
it's misleading if you don't read it and jump to assumptions, that's for sure.
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On January 29 2011 07:57 Milkis wrote:
Yup because putting DES as source invalidates your entire article
it's misleading if you don't read it and jump to assumptions, that's for sure.
It of course doesn't invalidate the article, but doesn't change the fact that it's misleading. If you post on a Korean SC forum and link to DES article, majority of people would call you out on it because they know its heavily KeSPA favoured.
If we're gona have any productive discussion on the subject, we have to know the side from Blizzard as well, but they are reluctant to make their stance public for whatever reason. For all I know, DES could be on to something here, but it still means we MUST wait for facts before we can draw any conclusion from it.
By the way, I've read that article before you posted it- As a proof, go to page 3 of the thread. I read it and I understand it. The one jumping to conclusion is the DES article.
I'm just trying to reason with you, I don't know why you are taking this so personally =(.
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5003 Posts
On January 29 2011 08:07 scion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2011 07:57 Milkis wrote:
Yup because putting DES as source invalidates your entire article
it's misleading if you don't read it and jump to assumptions, that's for sure. It of course doesn't invalidate the article, but doesn't change the fact that it's misleading. If you post on a Korean SC forum and link to DES article, majority of people would call you out on it because they know its heavily KeSPA favoured. If we're gona have any productive discussion on the subject, we have to know the side from Blizzard as well, but they are reluctant to make their stance public for whatever reason. For all I know, DES could be on to something here, but it still means we MUST wait for facts before we can draw any conclusion from it. By the way, I've read that article before you posted it- As a proof, go to page 3 of the thread. I read it and I understand it. The one jumping to conclusion is the DES article. I'm just trying to reason with you, I don't know why you are taking this so personally =(.
You definitely implied my article wasn't neutral simply because i used things from DES. I don't know how that implies you read the damn thing (especially when you claim to have read the naver one you linked to). THE SOLE REASON you took an issue with this entire thing was because I used a source that Koreans disapprove of, even though you haven't read the article or know what part of the article i even used as a source. You are trying to baby me like I don't understand this or something and it's absolutely ridiculous why you think that i'm incapable or something.
Of course I have opinions, and I keep them separate from the actual evidence. It's also hilarious how you're claiming that my opinion is wrong or something because "Blizzard or Gretech hasn't spoken yet" even though I gave you an the exact reason why their words aren't worth crap to anyone with half a brain. And yet you're claiming that I'm not allowed to make a hypothesis before they speak? give me a break.
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On January 29 2011 08:07 scion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2011 07:57 Milkis wrote:
Yup because putting DES as source invalidates your entire article
it's misleading if you don't read it and jump to assumptions, that's for sure. It of course doesn't invalidate the article, but doesn't change the fact that it's misleading. If you post on a Korean SC forum and link to DES article, majority of people would call you out on it because they know its heavily KeSPA favoured. If we're gona have any productive discussion on the subject, we have to know the side from Blizzard as well, but they are reluctant to make their stance public for whatever reason. For all I know, DES could be on to something here, but it still means we MUST wait for facts before we can draw any conclusion from it. By the way, I've read that article before you posted it- As a proof, go to page 3 of the thread. I read it and I understand it. The one jumping to conclusion is the DES article. I'm just trying to reason with you, I don't know why you are taking this so personally =(.
You are not trying to reason, sorry to go into this argument but what you have done is accusing the translator of cherry picking, even when He is telling you that the main source is not DES (but a site that favors SC2), lets wait for Blizzard answer to this maybe in 100 years so you have your "reliable" source.
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On January 29 2011 08:27 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2011 08:07 scion wrote:On January 29 2011 07:57 Milkis wrote:
Yup because putting DES as source invalidates your entire article
it's misleading if you don't read it and jump to assumptions, that's for sure. It of course doesn't invalidate the article, but doesn't change the fact that it's misleading. If you post on a Korean SC forum and link to DES article, majority of people would call you out on it because they know its heavily KeSPA favoured. If we're gona have any productive discussion on the subject, we have to know the side from Blizzard as well, but they are reluctant to make their stance public for whatever reason. For all I know, DES could be on to something here, but it still means we MUST wait for facts before we can draw any conclusion from it. By the way, I've read that article before you posted it- As a proof, go to page 3 of the thread. I read it and I understand it. The one jumping to conclusion is the DES article. I'm just trying to reason with you, I don't know why you are taking this so personally =(. You are not trying to reason, sorry to go into this argument but what you have done is accusing the translator of cherry picking, even when He is telling you that the main source is not DES (but a site that favors SC2), lets wait for Blizzard answer to this maybe in 100 years so you have your "reliable" source.
I really can't see what Blizzard have to say about this.
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On January 29 2011 08:19 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2011 08:07 scion wrote:On January 29 2011 07:57 Milkis wrote:
Yup because putting DES as source invalidates your entire article
it's misleading if you don't read it and jump to assumptions, that's for sure. It of course doesn't invalidate the article, but doesn't change the fact that it's misleading. If you post on a Korean SC forum and link to DES article, majority of people would call you out on it because they know its heavily KeSPA favoured. If we're gona have any productive discussion on the subject, we have to know the side from Blizzard as well, but they are reluctant to make their stance public for whatever reason. For all I know, DES could be on to something here, but it still means we MUST wait for facts before we can draw any conclusion from it. By the way, I've read that article before you posted it- As a proof, go to page 3 of the thread. I read it and I understand it. The one jumping to conclusion is the DES article. I'm just trying to reason with you, I don't know why you are taking this so personally =(. You definitely implied my article wasn't neutral simply because i used things from DES. I don't know how that implies you read the damn thing (especially when you claim to have read the naver one you linked to). THE SOLE REASON you took an issue with this entire thing was because I used a source that Koreans disapprove of, even though you haven't read the article or know what part of the article i even used as a source. You are trying to baby me like I don't understand this or something and it's absolutely ridiculous why you think that i'm incapable or something. Of course I have opinions, and I keep them separate from the actual evidence. It's also hilarious how you're claiming that my opinion is wrong or something because "Blizzard or Gretech hasn't spoken yet" even though I gave you an the exact reason why their words aren't worth crap to anyone with half a brain. And yet you're claiming that I'm not allowed to make a hypothesis before they speak? give me a break.
Nevermind, it's no use trying to have a discussion with you when you simply assume the meaning of my texts, take potshots at me and shoot me down with comments like I'm hilarious. I even PM'd instead of posting because I wanted avoid coming off like this out of respect for you. First thing you told me was I shouldn't talk because you know more about how media works. I don't see how we're gonna have any productive discussion here.
I didn't claim your opinion was wrong, you are not allowed to make hypothesis nor did I imply your article itself was not neutral. All I pointed out was how you linked misleading article from DES in the OP, and all other things I've said is that we shouldn't assume what Blizzard/Gretech is thinking just because they refuse to speak.
Thanks for the translation, I'm out.
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On January 29 2011 08:27 palexhur wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2011 08:07 scion wrote:On January 29 2011 07:57 Milkis wrote:
Yup because putting DES as source invalidates your entire article
it's misleading if you don't read it and jump to assumptions, that's for sure. It of course doesn't invalidate the article, but doesn't change the fact that it's misleading. If you post on a Korean SC forum and link to DES article, majority of people would call you out on it because they know its heavily KeSPA favoured. If we're gona have any productive discussion on the subject, we have to know the side from Blizzard as well, but they are reluctant to make their stance public for whatever reason. For all I know, DES could be on to something here, but it still means we MUST wait for facts before we can draw any conclusion from it. By the way, I've read that article before you posted it- As a proof, go to page 3 of the thread. I read it and I understand it. The one jumping to conclusion is the DES article. I'm just trying to reason with you, I don't know why you are taking this so personally =(. You are not trying to reason, sorry to go into this argument but what you have done is accusing the translator of cherry picking, even when He is telling you that the main source is not DES (but a site that favors SC2), lets wait for Blizzard answer to this maybe in 100 years so you have your "reliable" source.
I have no problem with main source, I've said it before. I said linking DES in main is misleading.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
As long as the facts presented in the article are not in dispute, I can't figure out what the problem is here. If the facts that came out in collected media reports of the trial do not favor blizzard, that we can't wait around for an appropriate amount of "pro-blizzard" facts to be found. Besides that, there is precious little interpretation or editorializing in the translation as I read it.
Beyond a specious objection to one of two sources cited, I can't see what the substance of scion's objection is. When Blizzard gives an interview or releases a press statement, we translate it and report it. I don't see how there can be an accusation of bias against our translating team.
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On January 29 2011 08:39 tree.hugger wrote:
As long as the facts presented in the article are not in dispute, I can't figure out what the problem is here. If the facts that came out here do not favor blizzard, that we can't wait around for an appropriate amount of "pro-blizzard" facts to be found. Beyond that, there is precious little interpretation or editorializing in the translation as I read it.
Beyond a specious objection to one of two sources cited, I can't see what the substance of scion's objection is. When Blizzard gives an interview or releases a press statement, we translate it and report it. I don't see how there can be an accusation of bias against our translating team.
If you read when it all started, first my objection was against Milkis's opinion, not the original article.
My ONLY objection to OP is link to DES article as you said.
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On January 29 2011 03:31 Antoine wrote:
It said they should "use its best efforts to make [...] smooth transition of professional players". As I read it, it doesn't say anything about making players switch over. Rather, it says that Gretech should make the transition of those who do choose to switch over as smooth as possible, which is quite reasonable.
Contracts are usually carefully cross checked by lawyers(not by fake law students/trolls on TL) to avoid ambiguity (sometimes people try to find loopholes in them, but the intention should be clear anyway). If this is indeed what the contract states then it is pretty clear blizzard wants Gretech to drop BW. If intended meaning was as you describe then I think "blah blah make transition of players as smooth as possible" would have been there instead.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On January 29 2011 08:41 scion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2011 08:39 tree.hugger wrote:
As long as the facts presented in the article are not in dispute, I can't figure out what the problem is here. If the facts that came out here do not favor blizzard, that we can't wait around for an appropriate amount of "pro-blizzard" facts to be found. Beyond that, there is precious little interpretation or editorializing in the translation as I read it.
Beyond a specious objection to one of two sources cited, I can't see what the substance of scion's objection is. When Blizzard gives an interview or releases a press statement, we translate it and report it. I don't see how there can be an accusation of bias against our translating team. If you read when it all started, first my objection was against Milkis's opinion, not the original article. My ONLY objection to OP is link to DES article as you said.
Then your objection is with the private opinion of a poster on this website and not with the content or work of the OP. That's fine, and I'm sure Milkis would love to disagree further.
But I think he took this as somewhat of an attack on his translator/journalist ethics, which I don't believe you intended, but might have not been as precise as you intended.
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Russian Federation122 Posts
I so hope that Blizz will win the case and make Korea switch to SC2. SCBW is just old and boring (imho).
User was warned for this post
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when is blizzard going to realize that pro BW is HUGE MARKETING for ALL things Blizzard? That a stable professional league -- were players draw SALARY and make a living -- is based on a near-perfect game is a HUGE TESTAMENT TO THE AWESOMENESS OF BLIZZARD. Your brand gets tremendous points for developing such a game and to have it withstand the test of time in such a way. Get it through your heads blizzard: ANY PUBLICITY IS GOOD PUBLICITY, AND AN AWESOME PRO LEAGUE IS THE GOLD STANDARD THAT ALL GAMING COMPANIES WISH FOR
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On January 28 2011 19:10 psycow wrote:
From the article on Daily e-Sports, the English wording in the contract: Transition to StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty : Organizer will use its best efforts to make smooth transition from Starcraft I to Starcraft II: Wings of Liberty and its expansions("Starcraft2") and to make smooth transition of professional players from Starcraft 1 to Starcraft 2 from the time Starcraft 2 becomes available for play.
In case some of the posters here doubt, click on the link and see the wording for yourself:
http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/read.php?id=39412
This is the smoking gun. It's clear evidence of Blizzard's two-faced approach, saying one thing to the public while aiming for something else in private. On one hand Blizzard tells the public that they have no intention of stopping broadcasted brood war, but wanted to "have their intellectual property rights recognized". On the other hand, their EXCLUSIVE licensee for BOTH brood war and Starcraft 2 has been specifically directed to "use its best efforts" to move the scene, and the players, to Starcraft 2. Gretech isn't merely Blizzard's Starcraft 2 licensee, with someone else given the rights to maintain Brood War. Gretech was given BOTH the Starcraft 2 and Brood War licenses, and told to transition away from Brood War.
When Blizzard launched their lawsuit, what their representative said publicly as to their desired outcome does not match up with the actions they are taking.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=165379
Paul Sams added, "We've always believed firmly that StarCraft leagues can co-exist with GSL, and we hope that MBCGame can continue broadcasting StarCraft tournaments and events. But, for this to happen, it is important to finish licensing negotiations in order to protect our IP rights first.
The non-disclosure agreements certainly helped keep Blizzard's contradicting actions under warps - it's only now in the public venue of the courtroom that these things are coming to light.
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haha, it surely would be interesting to have all the Pros switch to sc2, since I prefer to watch SC2 because I can play it a lot better than BW and thus I understand the games much better and see every difference in every BO and timing etc., but I highly doubt that Blizzard may force them into that...
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And yet, no one cares to mention how KESPA did worse to Gretech. Is no one else still bitter about the whole 'scheduling conflict' thing a few years ago?
EDIT: That's to say, Gretech/Blizzard are doing damage. KeSPA basically killed Gretech until sc2 started.
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KeSPA: Switch to SC2 and we ban you.
Blizz: Wins and forces KeSPA to bring SC2 into the spotlight.
GG
Kinda funny to see KeSPA soo desperate after all their fuck-ups. They've actually hurting e-sports a ton with the SC2 ban.
The butthurt is obvious now that they can't milk those poor pros for all they're worth till BW burns out in 2-3 years.
They are eventually gonna have to accept most of those terms or just cease to exist, either way freedom and e-sports win.
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Obviously he never played SC2 professionally on a team, note the "had to intention to switch to SC2".
Did you even read the whole article?
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EPT
