EPTA) read your post
and
B) watch the replays
Having watched the replays I can say that this would have a very tough time vs a terran who walls with fac/rax and not a supply depot/tech
[G] 5 Roach Rush: early game without the all-in - Page 2
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
A) read your post and B) watch the replays Having watched the replays I can say that this would have a very tough time vs a terran who walls with fac/rax and not a supply depot/tech | ||
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
obsid - a quick starport is part of the 1-1-1 build that many, many terrans do against zerg. l2p. | ||
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Fistdantilus
United States136 Posts
On August 20 2010 14:02 itzbrandnew wrote: Having watched the replays I can say that this would have a very tough time vs a terran who walls with fac/rax and not a supply depot/tech Correct! That's one of those times where you just turn around and go home, or set up a hellion contain in front of his base. Though the 5RR is very good against rax/fax that are placed at the bottom of the ramp. It's possible as well to scout with your lings to even avoid making the roaches if you see this, but I generally make the roaches to do a hellion contain anyway and make drones instead of lings. | ||
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Fistdantilus
United States136 Posts
On August 20 2010 14:04 Vaporized wrote: i think this might be good against quick reapers too which is so common. It definitely is, but the key is to make a roach or two after your initial group leaves so you have some defense. Got into a game today where we base-traded 7 minutes in because reapers killed my main and he flew away on LT to the island. I won, but it took 30 minutes. -_- | ||
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dlordtemplar
United States7 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On August 20 2010 14:07 Fistdantilus wrote: Correct! That's one of those times where you just turn around and go home, or set up a hellion contain in front of his base. Though the 5RR is very good against rax/fax that are placed at the bottom of the ramp. It's possible as well to scout with your lings to even avoid making the roaches if you see this, but I generally make the roaches to do a hellion contain anyway and make drones instead of lings. I'm not really set in any race and have been playing all three... I'm going to try zerg opening with this since playing as Z my main gripe is that I don't have a very good opening to execute (especially vs smart terrans with good walls) Thanks for the quick response! | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
Vs. Protoss I can see it working decently vs 2-gate if the P doesn't see it coming at all, but like you said in the cons, if they scout well they can hold it off nicely and put you at a disadvantage. I'll still give it a try and see how it goes. | ||
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Fistdantilus
United States136 Posts
Most terrans I face don't go for reapers once they see the gas before hatch, as reapers are just not that effective vs early speedlings or roaches. EDIT: before screaming about the LzGamer reaper replays, both zerg went hatch before gas which completely sucks against reaper openings. | ||
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Solitaire
Canada15 Posts
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iSTime
1579 Posts
I've been playing 2 gate against zerg, and on most maps if they go straight roach warren without making lings you can even get away with expanding immediately after cyber core. Example (I had at least one other replay, but I can't find it): ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-140729.jpg) EDIT: I watched the ZvP games. As expected, the toss players both made pretty big mistakes early. On both LT and Delta Quadrant, both toss players used all of the chrono boosts on workers, which is pretty greedy, and IMO is pretty bad style. Especially on LT, where he scouted the roach warren. Even after scouting the roach warren, he only made zealots and sentries, and even had the gateway not producing units for a while, while is pretty bad. On delta the toss even got warpgate while you were attacking him and didn't make use of it. | ||
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pechkin
158 Posts
something like 9ol 11/12 pool | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
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southern
United States4 Posts
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JonnyLaw
United States3482 Posts
Back to the topic. If you do scout early double tech lab rax or two gate cyber for quick stalkers, what's your next move? Retreat back to the natural and spine crawler up or simply the mass speedlings? | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
Typical TL lately has been: "show a replay or you're just theorycrafting." Then, when you provide replays it turns into "you played a bunch of noobs, that would never work in plat+" even though you're beating 600D opponents. So let them hate. I, for one, will play with your ideas. I really like 1 base ling/roach openings against P lately. I can easily fend off 2 gates, and tend to be in a very good spot for the inevitable 4 gate (I expand immediately when I see the cyber core or just lack of a 2nd gate). I have completely crushed the 2-gate>4-gate>expand play that is so typical these days, so I am pretty happy sticking to lings and roaches for quite a while. I wish they would do something about 2 supply Roaches as it's super easy to get supply blocked in a straight 4-gate situation, and that WILL cost you the game every time against a decent opponent, but other than that, I can vouch, from experience, ling/roach with only 1 or 2 spine crawlers at the expo is the way to go against 4 gate. I, personally go much heavier on the ling early, and I am content to just having a ball of 10 lings keeping tabs on Ps ramp until he pushes out. But I will try out these early Roaches, they might just let me end the game right there if he's going Void Rays or something really bad like that. Against T, I'm not sure if I am so supportive. Don't get me wrong, I always build a Roach Warren while my Lair is morphing, but earlier roaches means less, and later Mutas. I prefer to transition back down to roaches after I see T has 20 Marines, 5 Thors, a handful of Hellions, and no Tanks. I'll give it a try though. Anything that forces more units out of T earlier sounds great to me, maybe I can go for early roaches and skip ling speed until later or something... we'll see. Thanks for the good post. | ||
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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swymaboi
Canada85 Posts
On August 20 2010 12:35 Fistdantilus wrote: It's like none of you even read the post before responding? =( too many ppl on TL like this Just shutting down ideas/BOs/strats just cause they think they're better than the OP or they think they could have responded better the OP's Opponents NEWS FLASH TL: If his opponents knew he was doing this exact build i'm pretty sure they would have responded differently So to the people whom are saying that scouting will stop this dead, when you see a roach warren, you know they will be doing the 5RR for sure? 100%? as for the build I will definitely try using this...I can't be going speedling/muta for all the games. One question, if the RR fails and they counter attack, is it possible to defend and not fall too far behind in econ?? | ||
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TitleRug
United States651 Posts
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MrBitter
United States2939 Posts
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On August 20 2010 15:28 swymaboi wrote: too many ppl on TL like this Just shutting down ideas/BOs/strats just cause they think they're better than the OP or they think they could have responded better the OP's Opponents NEWS FLASH TL: If his opponents knew he was doing this exact build i'm pretty sure they would have responded differently So to the people whom are saying that scouting will stop this dead, when you see a roach warren, you know they will be doing the 5RR for sure? 100%? as for the build I will definitely try using this...I can't be going speedling/muta for all the games. One question, if the RR fails and they counter attack, is it possible to defend and not fall too far behind in econ?? Obviously I can't know if he's going 5RR when I scout roach warren or if he's going roach all-in or if he's only make 3 roaches. The thing is, it doesn't really matter, I'm getting stalkers ASAP in any case. I think his post is helpful, I just think he's overestimating its ability to dominate 2 gate. PvZ is by far my best matchup, and when I get pretty happy when I see the early roach warren because it really narrows down their options for the first 5-6 minutes. | ||
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