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On October 15 2010 22:24 me_viet wrote:
Post patch 1.1.2 i'm pretty sure on Kulas Ravine where the entrance is not on higher grounds, Roaches will now be able to shoot at depots or Rax without fear of retaliation by marines or maybe even Marauders. (Marines range 5, Roaches range 4, Depot is 2 'space')
Another good point of this build I think
Marauders have a range of 6, which still wouldn't be enough, but a Bunker just behind the depot should be enough, since it adds +1 range to the marauders within it. Does this means that a wall against roaches not requires such a setup - at least until you get tanks - ?
Would such a bunker be enough to attack the roaches even if they go not for the supply depot, but for the barrack? would they be able to stay out of range this way?
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Yea, roaches can hit Terran buildings without being shot back from marines with this. I've done it a couple times so far =). Also, I've found it useful to fly my first overlord near their base at the beginning, then when I move out to attack, flying it close to the entrance so it can spot for my roaches. That way, they can attack, even on the low ground and off of the ramp.
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It's more to help a Zerg player that went roaches deal with seige drops... The range of 3 made it impossible for the roaches to reach the seiges that were dropped behind minerals because there were 8 or 12 marines in the way. This forced the roaches to fight the marines and die, and didn't give the player the option of microing towards the tank.
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It feels like beta when the roach was 1 supply all over again. All PvZ today have been 5RR or something similar where they rush roaches along with some lings and mass them.
I barely win it each time but it seems to be the trend atm. The range buff really has made zerg players go more roach early game delaying tech.
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On October 16 2010 07:16 shannn wrote:
It feels like beta when the roach was 1 supply all over again. All PvZ today have been 5RR or something similar where they rush roaches along with some lings and mass them.
I barely win it each time but it seems to be the trend atm. The range buff really has made zerg players go more roach early game delaying tech.
I think a lot of that has to do with people just trying them out. If its just like beta, go go fast immortal push. 
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On October 16 2010 07:21 Bull-Demon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 07:16 shannn wrote:
It feels like beta when the roach was 1 supply all over again. All PvZ today have been 5RR or something similar where they rush roaches along with some lings and mass them.
I barely win it each time but it seems to be the trend atm. The range buff really has made zerg players go more roach early game delaying tech. I think a lot of that has to do with people just trying them out. If its just like beta, go go fast immortal push.
What do u think I'm doing lolol
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On October 16 2010 07:30 shannn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 07:21 Bull-Demon wrote:On October 16 2010 07:16 shannn wrote:
It feels like beta when the roach was 1 supply all over again. All PvZ today have been 5RR or something similar where they rush roaches along with some lings and mass them.
I barely win it each time but it seems to be the trend atm. The range buff really has made zerg players go more roach early game delaying tech. I think a lot of that has to do with people just trying them out. If its just like beta, go go fast immortal push. What do u think I'm doing lolol
Watch:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/90959-1v1-protoss-zerg-blistering-sands
Delaying tech is the real danger to the Zerg player because of how easy it is to eliminate Zerg AA at this stage in the game.
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I've been having a lot of success vs protoss lately with an overpool roach rush
10 OL
10 pool
15 gas (and queen)
18 roach warren
17 drone
18 OL then another
you attack with 7 roaches really fast
I got this BO from the thread about a build-order-finding program. He said this was the fastest way to get 7 roaches.
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On October 16 2010 07:58 csfield wrote:
I've been having a lot of success vs protoss lately with an overpool roach rush
10 OL
10 pool
15 gas (and queen)
18 roach warren
17 drone
18 OL then another
you attack with 7 roaches really fast
I got this BO from the thread about a build-order-finding program. He said this was the fastest way to get 7 roaches.
9 Overlord is better than 10 Overlord in every way as far as I know.
Also don't see why you need pool on 10, you can do a 13 pool 13 gas and get the Roach Warren when you're Queen's at 75%, make sure you have enough ovies and save 2 larva to spawn 7 roaches at the end of the Queen's first inject, around 5:00 game time.
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On this issue though I think double extractor trick, 12 pool 12 overlord gas queen warren is the fastest way to get 5-6 roaches our but you're only 40 game seconds ahead of 13 pool and 2 drones ahead of 11 pool.
The benefit comes of the overlord taking you to 34 supply so the next batch of larva sends lings to support your roaches which really hurts toss
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On October 16 2010 14:46 telfire wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2010 07:58 csfield wrote:
I've been having a lot of success vs protoss lately with an overpool roach rush
10 OL
10 pool
15 gas (and queen)
18 roach warren
17 drone
18 OL then another
you attack with 7 roaches really fast
I got this BO from the thread about a build-order-finding program. He said this was the fastest way to get 7 roaches. 9 Overlord is better than 10 Overlord in every way as far as I know. Also don't see why you need pool on 10, you can do a 13 pool 13 gas and get the Roach Warren when you're Queen's at 75%, make sure you have enough ovies and save 2 larva to spawn 7 roaches at the end of the Queen's first inject, around 5:00 game time.
You don't need an OL on 9 if you're going to be throwing up a pool on 10. Think about it.
And it's worthy of note that this build gets the 7 roaches out 15-20 seconds before the 5 minute mark. I'm not saying it's optimal or anything, but it's the fastest build this program could find. It's limited by its programming (no extractor tricks or scouting), and it certainly isn't concerned with economy, but it slams those roaches out mighty fast.
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And it is also an all-in. The point of this build is not to all in it is to punish fast tech while having a somewhat solid economy. If you do anything more than this you are pretty much going all in, I have tried a lot of variations on it and 5RR is the most balanced, if you go 7 roaches you probably arent getting ling speed and you probably dont have enough money to expand. Especially looking at that build order, so if you do in fact fail your attack, you are going to lose the game 9 times out of 10.
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sorry if i'm missing something, but uh... how exactly do you deal with this on scrap station?
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still not understanding how anyone could lose to this. I just played a game on jungle basin where a zerg scouts my gate/core/nexus, cancels his hatchery expansion and decides to go allin roaches on me. I had 1 zealot/1 sentry when 7 roaches with 4 reinforcing came in. Force field, warp in 2 stalker/1sentry, force field again, warp in stalker/stalker/stalker, easily hold off roaches and he ggs shortly after because I have double his income.
He managed to take out my gateway(had a gateway/core walloff) but that was it. If I played better I could have warped in more sentries and kept force fielding while building a cannon or two.
Btw I was completely unprepared for such a quick roach rush because I saw him expanding. It was only after watching the replay that I realized he canceled his expo to get roaches faster.
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it obviously wasn't the 5 roach rush if he had 7 with 4 more coming in.
further, it obviously was badly timed if he had a expansion to cancel to begin with.
so you not understanding how anyone could lose to this is because you're not understanding what 'this' actually is.
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I recently tried this against Sjow in a tourney.
Yes, im just a random platinum player.
Yes, he won XD
But only because he perfectly timed a bunker. Damn pro players
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Back-tech to zerglings? LMAO
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On October 19 2010 16:43 ewswes wrote:
still not understanding how anyone could lose to this. I just played a game on jungle basin where a zerg scouts my gate/core/nexus, cancels his hatchery expansion and decides to go allin roaches on me. I had 1 zealot/1 sentry when 7 roaches with 4 reinforcing came in.
Please at least read the first post so you understand the difference between a 5RR and just plain random roach aggression:
a) The 5RR gets an expansion after the roaches are out, not before
b) The 5RR gets 5 roaches only (sounds like a "well duh" point, but you describe someone getting 11 roaches and think it's related to this build ...)
c) The 5RR gets ling speed and follows up with lings, not more roaches
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On October 19 2010 16:43 ewswes wrote:
still not understanding how anyone could lose to this. I just played a game on jungle basin where a zerg scouts my gate/core/nexus, cancels his hatchery expansion and decides to go allin roaches on me. I had 1 zealot/1 sentry when 7 roaches with 4 reinforcing came in. Force field, warp in 2 stalker/1sentry, force field again, warp in stalker/stalker/stalker, easily hold off roaches and he ggs shortly after because I have double his income.
He managed to take out my gateway(had a gateway/core walloff) but that was it. If I played better I could have warped in more sentries and kept force fielding while building a cannon or two.
Btw I was completely unprepared for such a quick roach rush because I saw him expanding. It was only after watching the replay that I realized he canceled his expo to get roaches faster.
the 5RR rarely works as a coup de grace for me. Rather, the roaches keep the opponent stuck in their base until they can definitively wipe out the roaches/lings I have sitting on their nat, meanwhile I can be droning droning droning and expanding expanding expanding. Their options are to trade armies and keep up with me in econ (which creates the threat that if I'm on an all-in build they'll be unable to stop my next push), or to cede economic and map control while they make enough units to convincingly crush my poor innocent zerg blocking their natural. The most effective response I've seen to this, assuming I'm able to keep the contain (which is most of the time at my bronze level) is to stop trying to beat the roaches and start trying to out-tech me. My econ will be vastly better than yours, but if you have cloaked banshees or drop DTs in my mineral line I'm going to have a hell of a time fighting you off until my overseer finishes morphing, 30-some seconds from now. Remember that your opponent is using this time to drone, not necessarily to tech or upgrade. If you try and beat them conventionally they can outproduce you and hammer you down with their additional base(s). Be sneakier.
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EPT
