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[G] 5 Roach Rush: early game without the all-in - Page 38

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Frunkis
Profile Joined August 2010
United States146 Posts
October 13 2010 00:30 GMT
#741
I've been doing 14 ext, 14 pool, and then stopping production at 20 supply. Then getting out 7 roaches instead of 5. Those two roaches seem to make a big difference.
Armsved
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark642 Posts
October 13 2010 01:56 GMT
#742
On October 12 2010 21:39 Undercroft wrote:
Against sentries you only need to abort if there's more than one. A single sentry won't be able to stop the rush or slow it enough to actually do anything. All you do is wait out the first forcefield and then break in. It doesn't matter as much if your roaches get a little split as you can still use them to open a hole for the lings.

Against terrans i've had a bit more mixed success. Tech builds get demolished unless the wall is build properly (ie two big buildings like a rax, etc) or they go for lots of marauders early. Not sure how a 1rax FE stops the 5RR. What units do you have at your wall? and how do you manage to expand when the zerg has all those units for map control? I don't see what you can mean by having the expansion up before the zerg player when you won';t be able to land the cc


1st of all any terran should be using 2 structures to wall off because of baneling busts. Basicly with 1 rax FE you get 2 reapers out first. The first reaper will spot w/e you are doing and then you just get marauder (the fact that you take gas after pool is also a huge give away). You really only need 2 marauders to defend vs this push. I tend to go 1 rax with techlab, get out 2 reaper (or w/e is needed, marauders if I see this opening). Start CC when at 400 minerals, produce rauders after the 2 reapers, at 600 minerals put down 3rax and 1 factory (this is before the CC is done) and start stim. The OC is done around the time the first cycle of units has come out, so you can just go down, secure nat and land OC.
YOOO
ewswes
Profile Joined October 2010
39 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 02:46:21
October 13 2010 02:43 GMT
#743
On October 13 2010 00:43 MorsCerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 12:02 ewswes wrote:
On October 12 2010 11:25 MorsCerta wrote:
On October 12 2010 09:03 ewswes wrote:
I don't understand how this build could possibly work against a protoss with sentries force fielding the ramp and slowly picking off your roaches. All you're doing is massively delaying your econ while doing no damage to the protoss.

Because you deny scouting, and the max amount of sentries a toss could have out is 1, especially a toss going warp into robo. If they don't know its coming and I know their composition, its not very difficult.


The standard build for 4gate, 3gate/expand, 2gate/forge/expand is to build 1 zealot then 5 sentries. Also by the time your roaches arrive at the toss base, warpgates will either be done or very close to done so he can easily warp in stalkers and fend off your rush with almost no damage.

I have never, ever ever ever, seen someone open with 5 sentries. (1200 diamond take with grain of salt.) The most I have seen is 1, and warp tech does finish as I get there and I have faced stalkers incoming, which is why if I see they will need to warp in to hold off my attack, I will follow up with 8-12 speedlings, Because 9 times out of 10 they will warp 2-3 stalkers.


don't really know what to tell you then, there's absolutely no reason not to dump early gas on sentries to start building their energy asap.

Even if they only have 1 sentry, i assume that means they have more zealots. Which means all he has to do is delay with his 1 ff, warp in some stalkers. And I don't know how zerglings are supposed to get into his base when he built 2-3 zealots early on to wall off.
morimacil
Profile Joined March 2010
France921 Posts
October 13 2010 03:19 GMT
#744
On October 13 2010 10:56 Armsved wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 12 2010 21:39 Undercroft wrote:
Against sentries you only need to abort if there's more than one. A single sentry won't be able to stop the rush or slow it enough to actually do anything. All you do is wait out the first forcefield and then break in. It doesn't matter as much if your roaches get a little split as you can still use them to open a hole for the lings.

Against terrans i've had a bit more mixed success. Tech builds get demolished unless the wall is build properly (ie two big buildings like a rax, etc) or they go for lots of marauders early. Not sure how a 1rax FE stops the 5RR. What units do you have at your wall? and how do you manage to expand when the zerg has all those units for map control? I don't see what you can mean by having the expansion up before the zerg player when you won';t be able to land the cc


1st of all any terran should be using 2 structures to wall off because of baneling busts. Basicly with 1 rax FE you get 2 reapers out first. The first reaper will spot w/e you are doing and then you just get marauder (the fact that you take gas after pool is also a huge give away). You really only need 2 marauders to defend vs this push. I tend to go 1 rax with techlab, get out 2 reaper (or w/e is needed, marauders if I see this opening). Start CC when at 400 minerals, produce rauders after the 2 reapers, at 600 minerals put down 3rax and 1 factory (this is before the CC is done) and start stim. The OC is done around the time the first cycle of units has come out, so you can just go down, secure nat and land OC.

You cant get 2 reapers and 2 marauders out in time on one rax. Its just not possible. If you sent your first reaper to his base asap, at the risk of losing him, you would see the roaches on their way to your base already, and would just have time to cancel the second reaper, make a marauder instead, and start a bunker. You might not have the money, depending on your build, but you cant get 2 reapers and 2 marauders out in time off 1 rax.
Unless you went 7rax or something dumb.
MorsCerta
Profile Joined October 2010
United States234 Posts
October 13 2010 04:46 GMT
#745
On October 13 2010 11:43 ewswes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 00:43 MorsCerta wrote:
On October 12 2010 12:02 ewswes wrote:
On October 12 2010 11:25 MorsCerta wrote:
On October 12 2010 09:03 ewswes wrote:
I don't understand how this build could possibly work against a protoss with sentries force fielding the ramp and slowly picking off your roaches. All you're doing is massively delaying your econ while doing no damage to the protoss.

Because you deny scouting, and the max amount of sentries a toss could have out is 1, especially a toss going warp into robo. If they don't know its coming and I know their composition, its not very difficult.


The standard build for 4gate, 3gate/expand, 2gate/forge/expand is to build 1 zealot then 5 sentries. Also by the time your roaches arrive at the toss base, warpgates will either be done or very close to done so he can easily warp in stalkers and fend off your rush with almost no damage.

I have never, ever ever ever, seen someone open with 5 sentries. (1200 diamond take with grain of salt.) The most I have seen is 1, and warp tech does finish as I get there and I have faced stalkers incoming, which is why if I see they will need to warp in to hold off my attack, I will follow up with 8-12 speedlings, Because 9 times out of 10 they will warp 2-3 stalkers.


don't really know what to tell you then, there's absolutely no reason not to dump early gas on sentries to start building their energy asap.

Even if they only have 1 sentry, i assume that means they have more zealots. Which means all he has to do is delay with his 1 ff, warp in some stalkers. And I don't know how zerglings are supposed to get into his base when he built 2-3 zealots early on to wall off.

Umm....roaches attacked the zealots? Roaches kite zealots -> zealots either on hold and die or chase and die, if they chase run speedlings past zealots to surround stalkers -> roaches kill zealots -> finish up stalkers.

The time he had a sentry I believe he cut my roaches into 2 and 3, i focused down the zealots because they were in range then he warped in stalkers to counter my roaches and my speedlings were waiting outside for the FF to go away. FF goes away I simply run in and at this point my second wave of speedlings is on the way. i would imagine the correct thing to do would be warp in 1 more sentry and 2 stalkers to maintain a FF but my opponent is not aware of speedlings waiting outside nor do most people when under pressure have the composure to warp in a caster. People think oh shitshitshit need dps roaches here ok STALKERS! Which is really their downfall.

I'll try to find replays for you I have saved and also I'll open this on toss every opportunity I have and save you more replays. I think the main thing though is all toss scouts at the most is I am researching ling speed. I never ever have let a toss scout my roach warren going down and if they do I would probably cancel and expand.
If I was you then I would prolly hate on me too. http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MorsCerta
ewswes
Profile Joined October 2010
39 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 05:28:35
October 13 2010 05:22 GMT
#746
On October 13 2010 13:46 MorsCerta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 11:43 ewswes wrote:
On October 13 2010 00:43 MorsCerta wrote:
On October 12 2010 12:02 ewswes wrote:
On October 12 2010 11:25 MorsCerta wrote:
On October 12 2010 09:03 ewswes wrote:
I don't understand how this build could possibly work against a protoss with sentries force fielding the ramp and slowly picking off your roaches. All you're doing is massively delaying your econ while doing no damage to the protoss.

Because you deny scouting, and the max amount of sentries a toss could have out is 1, especially a toss going warp into robo. If they don't know its coming and I know their composition, its not very difficult.


The standard build for 4gate, 3gate/expand, 2gate/forge/expand is to build 1 zealot then 5 sentries. Also by the time your roaches arrive at the toss base, warpgates will either be done or very close to done so he can easily warp in stalkers and fend off your rush with almost no damage.

I have never, ever ever ever, seen someone open with 5 sentries. (1200 diamond take with grain of salt.) The most I have seen is 1, and warp tech does finish as I get there and I have faced stalkers incoming, which is why if I see they will need to warp in to hold off my attack, I will follow up with 8-12 speedlings, Because 9 times out of 10 they will warp 2-3 stalkers.


don't really know what to tell you then, there's absolutely no reason not to dump early gas on sentries to start building their energy asap.

Even if they only have 1 sentry, i assume that means they have more zealots. Which means all he has to do is delay with his 1 ff, warp in some stalkers. And I don't know how zerglings are supposed to get into his base when he built 2-3 zealots early on to wall off.

Umm....roaches attacked the zealots? Roaches kite zealots -> zealots either on hold and die or chase and die, if they chase run speedlings past zealots to surround stalkers -> roaches kill zealots -> finish up stalkers.

The time he had a sentry I believe he cut my roaches into 2 and 3, i focused down the zealots because they were in range then he warped in stalkers to counter my roaches and my speedlings were waiting outside for the FF to go away. FF goes away I simply run in and at this point my second wave of speedlings is on the way. i would imagine the correct thing to do would be warp in 1 more sentry and 2 stalkers to maintain a FF but my opponent is not aware of speedlings waiting outside nor do most people when under pressure have the composure to warp in a caster. People think oh shitshitshit need dps roaches here ok STALKERS! Which is really their downfall.

I'll try to find replays for you I have saved and also I'll open this on toss every opportunity I have and save you more replays. I think the main thing though is all toss scouts at the most is I am researching ling speed. I never ever have let a toss scout my roach warren going down and if they do I would probably cancel and expand.


I've never lost to a zerg doing a roach rush on me even when I've played sloppy and messed up my BO so I don't have enough sentries up or my warpgate came a bit late. Or I would try to do a 2gate/forge/nexus build and would get surprised by a roach push and had to cancel my nexus and lose a pylon. Still held it off easily with ff, stalkers, and warp-in.

When your roaches get split by ff, the majority of your roaches aren't able to attack anything at all while I kill the 2-3 roaches that I split off from your army. I have plenty of time to warp in 2 stalker/1 sentry which gives me even more time to delay to warp in whatever unit I require.

I don't see this build working on anyone competent. I'm no pro or anything, I'm at around low-mid diamond, same as you. There's a reason why we're not seeing any top zergs doing 5RR in pvz.

edit: noticed you said most people don't warp in more sentries. It's kind of essential to have enough sentries to maintain force fields until they're stabalized. If the opponents youre playing never build more than 1 sentry at that stage and never warp in additional sentries, then you might as well baneling bust them every game.
MorsCerta
Profile Joined October 2010
United States234 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 13:54:16
October 13 2010 12:28 GMT
#747
On October 13 2010 14:22 ewswes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 13 2010 13:46 MorsCerta wrote:
On October 13 2010 11:43 ewswes wrote:
On October 13 2010 00:43 MorsCerta wrote:
On October 12 2010 12:02 ewswes wrote:
On October 12 2010 11:25 MorsCerta wrote:
On October 12 2010 09:03 ewswes wrote:
I don't understand how this build could possibly work against a protoss with sentries force fielding the ramp and slowly picking off your roaches. All you're doing is massively delaying your econ while doing no damage to the protoss.

Because you deny scouting, and the max amount of sentries a toss could have out is 1, especially a toss going warp into robo. If they don't know its coming and I know their composition, its not very difficult.


The standard build for 4gate, 3gate/expand, 2gate/forge/expand is to build 1 zealot then 5 sentries. Also by the time your roaches arrive at the toss base, warpgates will either be done or very close to done so he can easily warp in stalkers and fend off your rush with almost no damage.

I have never, ever ever ever, seen someone open with 5 sentries. (1200 diamond take with grain of salt.) The most I have seen is 1, and warp tech does finish as I get there and I have faced stalkers incoming, which is why if I see they will need to warp in to hold off my attack, I will follow up with 8-12 speedlings, Because 9 times out of 10 they will warp 2-3 stalkers.


don't really know what to tell you then, there's absolutely no reason not to dump early gas on sentries to start building their energy asap.

Even if they only have 1 sentry, i assume that means they have more zealots. Which means all he has to do is delay with his 1 ff, warp in some stalkers. And I don't know how zerglings are supposed to get into his base when he built 2-3 zealots early on to wall off.

Umm....roaches attacked the zealots? Roaches kite zealots -> zealots either on hold and die or chase and die, if they chase run speedlings past zealots to surround stalkers -> roaches kill zealots -> finish up stalkers.

The time he had a sentry I believe he cut my roaches into 2 and 3, i focused down the zealots because they were in range then he warped in stalkers to counter my roaches and my speedlings were waiting outside for the FF to go away. FF goes away I simply run in and at this point my second wave of speedlings is on the way. i would imagine the correct thing to do would be warp in 1 more sentry and 2 stalkers to maintain a FF but my opponent is not aware of speedlings waiting outside nor do most people when under pressure have the composure to warp in a caster. People think oh shitshitshit need dps roaches here ok STALKERS! Which is really their downfall.

I'll try to find replays for you I have saved and also I'll open this on toss every opportunity I have and save you more replays. I think the main thing though is all toss scouts at the most is I am researching ling speed. I never ever have let a toss scout my roach warren going down and if they do I would probably cancel and expand.


I've never lost to a zerg doing a roach rush on me even when I've played sloppy and messed up my BO so I don't have enough sentries up or my warpgate came a bit late. Or I would try to do a 2gate/forge/nexus build and would get surprised by a roach push and had to cancel my nexus and lose a pylon. Still held it off easily with ff, stalkers, and warp-in.

When your roaches get split by ff, the majority of your roaches aren't able to attack anything at all while I kill the 2-3 roaches that I split off from your army. I have plenty of time to warp in 2 stalker/1 sentry which gives me even more time to delay to warp in whatever unit I require.

I don't see this build working on anyone competent. I'm no pro or anything, I'm at around low-mid diamond, same as you. There's a reason why we're not seeing any top zergs doing 5RR in pvz.

edit: noticed you said most people don't warp in more sentries. It's kind of essential to have enough sentries to maintain force fields until they're stabalized. If the opponents youre playing never build more than 1 sentry at that stage and never warp in additional sentries, then you might as well baneling bust them every game.

Want to face each other and see exactly how many sentries you can get out?

I honestly just cant see you even able to get 500 gas that quickly especially not while teching robo (many toss I face go Gateway->Cyber->Robo and chronoing WarpTech->Gateway). 500 gas + build time off of 1 or 2 gateways while also building 2-3 zealots. 3 zealots and 5 sentries in under 5 minutes off of 1 or 2 gateways? I don't play toss so I could be way off just seems iffy.

However I am also not saying that 5RR is a top zerg strat, just that I am finding it is still a useful weapon to have in my Build Orders if I see a toss being greedy or if my 2 poke lings scout a shit army composition.

[image loading]

This is what I face more often than not, and he even walled with gate/cyber. Normally I would not have attacked facing that wall but against his army composition I was fairly certain I would come out on top.
If I was you then I would prolly hate on me too. http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MorsCerta
dcrowgamer
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3 Posts
October 13 2010 16:03 GMT
#748
Props to the OP -- this is a great build order that won me twelve 1000-1100k diamond games in a row. Not unstoppable, but close to it at my level.

mrfatbush
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia26 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 00:07:46
October 14 2010 00:06 GMT
#749
[/QUOTE] I've never lost to a zerg doing a roach rush on me even when I've played sloppy and messed up my BO so I don't have enough sentries up or my warpgate came a bit late. Or I would try to do a 2gate/forge/nexus build and would get surprised by a roach push and had to cancel my nexus and lose a pylon. Still held it off easily with ff, stalkers, and warp-in.

When your roaches get split by ff, the majority of your roaches aren't able to attack anything at all while I kill the 2-3 roaches that I split off from your army. I have plenty of time to warp in 2 stalker/1 sentry which gives me even more time to delay to warp in whatever unit I require.

I don't see this build working on anyone competent. I'm no pro or anything, I'm at around low-mid diamond, same as you. There's a reason why we're not seeing any top zergs doing 5RR in pvz.

edit: noticed you said most people don't warp in more sentries. It's kind of essential to have enough sentries to maintain force fields until they're stabalized. If the opponents youre playing never build more than 1 sentry at that stage and never warp in additional sentries, then you might as well baneling bust them every game. [/QUOTE]


I probably agree with this, because if they go 1gate into cyber, even just one stalker with zealots can hold this off. And once they do hold it off they're back to doing whatever it is they were planning to do with 1gate into cyber whilst you've delayed your expansion significantly.

On the other hand, if they 2 gate roach is ok as you kind of have to get roach anyway if they pressure with 5 zealots. So yeah, I like fast roach if 2 gate. 1 gate i prefer hatch first macro style

Edit: clearly i dont know how to quote properly...
MorsCerta
Profile Joined October 2010
United States234 Posts
October 14 2010 02:10 GMT
#750
On October 14 2010 09:06 mrfatbush wrote:
Show nested quote +
I've never lost to a zerg doing a roach rush on me even when I've played sloppy and messed up my BO so I don't have enough sentries up or my warpgate came a bit late. Or I would try to do a 2gate/forge/nexus build and would get surprised by a roach push and had to cancel my nexus and lose a pylon. Still held it off easily with ff, stalkers, and warp-in.

When your roaches get split by ff, the majority of your roaches aren't able to attack anything at all while I kill the 2-3 roaches that I split off from your army. I have plenty of time to warp in 2 stalker/1 sentry which gives me even more time to delay to warp in whatever unit I require.

I don't see this build working on anyone competent. I'm no pro or anything, I'm at around low-mid diamond, same as you. There's a reason why we're not seeing any top zergs doing 5RR in pvz.

edit: noticed you said most people don't warp in more sentries. It's kind of essential to have enough sentries to maintain force fields until they're stabalized. If the opponents youre playing never build more than 1 sentry at that stage and never warp in additional sentries, then you might as well baneling bust them every game.



I probably agree with this, because if they go 1gate into cyber, even just one stalker with zealots can hold this off. And once they do hold it off they're back to doing whatever it is they were planning to do with 1gate into cyber whilst you've delayed your expansion significantly.

On the other hand, if they 2 gate roach is ok as you kind of have to get roach anyway if they pressure with 5 zealots. So yeah, I like fast roach if 2 gate. 1 gate i prefer hatch first macro style

Edit: clearly i dont know how to quote properly...

How in the hell can 1 stalker + zealots beat 5 roaches + even just 2 lings? Maybe if the roaches are not microed at all its possible. Otherwise zealots will get eaten alive by roaches.

1 gate -> Gas -> Cyber -> Gas -> Gate or Robo can be beaten very easily by 5RR and I have done it many times.

[image loading]

One example of this where they chrono their immortal out and almost hold off my push with stalkers workers and immortals, all my roaches die but I already decided to all in with lings after and they mopped up.
If I was you then I would prolly hate on me too. http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/MorsCerta
TellMeWhy
Profile Joined September 2010
United States39 Posts
October 14 2010 02:22 GMT
#751
On August 20 2010 11:46 obsid wrote:
Seems to be a slower versions of this: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Baneling/Roach_Rush_(vs._Terran)

With a later expo and no banelings. Any damage you could do with your build, I would think the roach/baneling build would do even more damage (as it gets through the wall faster with the 5 roaches with the banelings). And with only 1 base (until after the attack starts), you will be less able to spam lings/drones to power or prevent a counter attack.



its probably slower because its meant to be an opening and not an all-in
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-15 02:18:18
October 15 2010 02:16 GMT
#752
With 1.1.2 this build is looking quite promising. Thanks Fistdatilus.

I took the time to write the exact same build in the OP w/ supply #'s instead of instructions to make drones. (I can never remember how many drones to make without using supply #'s)

9lord
13pool
13gas
15lord
15ling x1
16queen
~20warren (deny scout if possible)
19speed
21lord
Pull drones @125 gas
5x roach
31 overlord
32 hatch (expand)
Lings + 2nd queen

Seems much easier to remember like this. (for me at least).
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
October 15 2010 02:17 GMT
#753
On October 14 2010 11:22 TellMeWhy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2010 11:46 obsid wrote:
Seems to be a slower versions of this: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Baneling/Roach_Rush_(vs._Terran)

With a later expo and no banelings. Any damage you could do with your build, I would think the roach/baneling build would do even more damage (as it gets through the wall faster with the 5 roaches with the banelings). And with only 1 base (until after the attack starts), you will be less able to spam lings/drones to power or prevent a counter attack.



its probably slower because its meant to be an opening and not an all-in


Yeah, whats beautiful about this build is that if your chances of breaking through aren't good when your roaches show up, you can power drones instead of making additional lings and high tail it back home.
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
October 15 2010 02:55 GMT
#754
okay, i think all the protosses who say this build sucks blah blah are theorycrafting or something.

i think you're all underestimating how quick this build is. You CANNOT have 5 frikken sentries by the time the roaches get there.

I beat almost every toss with this build, to the point where I've stopped using it because its such a free win and I want to try other strats. (~1200 diamond)

It can be held off by very skilled play and if the toss has the exact right units for it. But honestly, a couple of stalkers are no problem at all, 1 sentry is no problem. when he has like 3 sentries then its an issue. but u can bust down the pylon or force the zealots blocking choke so quickly and stream your speedlings in... and once u get your speedlings in its basically gg.

i keep my speedlings sitting in his natural until i see an opening, toss often doesn't realise they're there so he doesn't worry too much about leaving an opening.

Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
October 15 2010 03:05 GMT
#755
You only need 2-3 sentries to hold a ramp indefinitely, because you can warp in more by the time the FF is going to drop.

Good at punishing greedy people and bad walls though.
Undercroft
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom166 Posts
October 15 2010 13:04 GMT
#756
one of the best defenses toss has is good building placement. If they can make a way to funnel your units through a narrow choke (made by their buildings) they have a good way of at least fighting back. had a game where i busted in but a zealot got warped into the funnel to cut off reinforcements (while probes and stalkers killed off what had busted in). think it was a gate-core-gate-gate type of BO by the enemy.
I think i equalised (since i did get some probe kills), but he didn't die outright like almost all of the gate-core builds i see. Made me learn to look at the wall with scouting lings a bit more before commiting to a bust.

It's also the reason my success with this build vs terran is a bit so-so too. Good sim city can be a pain, especially with a funnel-like placement when there's marines to pew pew over the buildings.

tldr:
Be warned that good building placement can augment their defence force
Our dronessssss are under attaahck!!
Mastadon6900
Profile Joined September 2010
United States46 Posts
October 15 2010 13:15 GMT
#757
On October 15 2010 22:04 Undercroft wrote:

It's also the reason my success with this build vs terran is a bit so-so too. Good sim city can be a pain, especially with a funnel-like placement when there's marines to pew pew over the buildings.

tldr:
Be warned that good building placement can augment their defence force


With the new roach range they can attack the building without being attacked back.
This seems like the 5RR would be a lot more effective.
The Swarm's Power Rises
Undercroft
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom166 Posts
October 15 2010 13:21 GMT
#758
yeah i haven't taken new range into consideration yet (since i haven't been on ladder in a bit. net issues DC me ), but when i first heard of that change i had a grin that looked like trollface.

Actually the range increase will also make sentries a bit less of a hassle in some ways. usually you can still pick off a zealot or pylon if the FF half your force. This change means we might still be able to shoot with all the rest. Will need to test it though
Our dronessssss are under attaahck!!
me_viet
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia1350 Posts
October 15 2010 13:24 GMT
#759
Post patch 1.1.2 i'm pretty sure on Kulas Ravine where the entrance is not on higher grounds, Roaches will now be able to shoot at depots or Rax without fear of retaliation by marines or maybe even Marauders. (Marines range 5, Roaches range 4, Depot is 2 'space')

Another good point of this build I think
Undercroft
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom166 Posts
October 15 2010 13:42 GMT
#760
On October 15 2010 22:24 me_viet wrote:
Post patch 1.1.2 i'm pretty sure on Kulas Ravine where the entrance is not on higher grounds, Roaches will now be able to shoot at depots or Rax without fear of retaliation by marines or maybe even Marauders. (Marines range 5, Roaches range 4, Depot is 2 'space')

Another good point of this build I think


We can also do something similar on highground ramps if we use an overlord to spot. the main risk though is losing the overlord before that. Losing an ovie before you get the roaches up can really hurt the timings of this BO (had it happen to me once. got sloppy in a ZvP and stalker killed my ovie)
Our dronessssss are under attaahck!!
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