EPTIraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 423
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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10558 Posts
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Broetchenholer
Germany1840 Posts
On May 14 2018 04:41 lastpuritan wrote: speaking of that, isn't that cute an allied nation holds the most wanted guy in its soil, aka turkish osama bin laden, and doesnt give it back because, they don't believe he wasn't behind the coup, despite all the facts and his terrorist attacks including assassination of russian ambassador. it's an act of war but who cares, it is the US, they can do whatever they want and people will still defend them. First, having real evidence would be a good starter. But i guess the western media is just withholding this clear evidence of Gülen being behind the coups because they are being paid off by the Americans, right? In Germany, with it's 6 mil turkish-german citizens, TUrkey is a very relevant country newswise, the fact that we only heard of Erdogan blaming Gülen without any proof makes me very hesitant to believe a single word turkish national propaganda is saying in this regard. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10558 Posts
I love the: "all your media sucks!" argument. While only posting turkish sources which are clearly more reasonable on this than any western (english, german, french...) news media because... Who knows. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5268 Posts
(he'll either say 'i don't know' or put up some bullshit reason(s) that would amount to treason) | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10558 Posts
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
On May 15 2018 01:13 Broetchenholer wrote: First, having real evidence would be a good starter. But i guess the western media is just withholding this clear evidence of Gülen being behind the coups because they are being paid off by the Americans, right? In Germany, with it's 6 mil turkish-german citizens, TUrkey is a very relevant country newswise, the fact that we only heard of Erdogan blaming Gülen without any proof makes me very hesitant to believe a single word turkish national propaganda is saying in this regard. It's off topic, I'll reply in spoilers. + Show Spoiler + the evidence is real. "without any proof" thing has been set to your minds. earlier in this topic I remember myself posting every single fucking proof that shows gulen was behind it, even the coup officers openly admit it in the courts nowadays but... it took its place in your mind as "not proven" so it's impossible to roll back. turkish chief general / the head of the turkish army was kidnapped that night, he is a well known secular, kemalist guy says coup generals wanted to make a skype video call between him and gulen to persuade him. it's like, all officers who had part in the coup were high link to gulen, all judges and prosecutor who fled the country after the coup now sitting next to gulen, all come from gulenist schools, only few secular kemalists involved and they openly say they it because they hate erdogan, not fan of gulen, yet you say gulen wasn't behind it. I personally advice people to look deeper into turkish sources, any source you can translate, they roughly cover the same images and videos and only legit ones are translated into english. Here, this is enough for a start, how many of these you heard in your newspapers? If you hesitate any names in this video I can send more proof about those. here are the parts of the older testimonies, On May 15 2018 01:33 Velr wrote: I find it especially funny because the, admittaly, few turks I work with (non kurds!) hate Erdogan with passion. Guess they are also brainwashed while visiting turkye several times a year... hating erdogan is non-relevant to turkish coup. oh god. your turkish knowledge in general is incredibly narrow that it's either about erdogan or killing kurds. oh, so your friends hate erdogan, like the other 50% of turkey, therefore gulen is innocent. great logic. Lavrov's assassination gave it away totally, I think it for the russians in general. Turkish, Russian relations grew so fast afterwards. + Show Spoiler + A Russian intelligence team was unable to crack the phone of Mevlüt Mert Altıntaş, the assassin who in late 2016 shot dead former Russian Ambassador to Turkey Andrey Karlov, daily Hürriyet reported on March 9. The team of Russian specialists, who travelled to Ankara, became the latest group to fail to crack Altıntaş’s phone. Following the failure, Turkish authorities have contacted a private company which will reportedly be arriving in Turkey for the mission in April. In December 2017, however, files on a hard disk belonging to Altıntaş were cracked by the Russian intelligence service. As part of Turkey and Russia’s joint investigation ongoing since last year, Turkish intelligence services initially completed their examination of the hard disk of Altıntaş’s laptop but were unable to retrieve the erased documents. The Russian intelligence services then requested to take the hard disk to Russia, promising “an alternative way” to examine the hard drive. The Russian intelligence services say they were able to locate two deleted files on the drive including the keywords “Fethullah Gülen” and 690 deleted files including the keyword “Hizmet,” a word that means “service” in Turkish and is used by sympathizers to refer to the movement of U.S.-based Islamic preacher Fethullah Gülen. Reports on Dec. 18 stated that social media posts and e-mails sent by Altıntaş were determined to have been deleted with the help of a virtual computer. According to findings in the investigation, members linked to the Gülen network managed to connect to Altıntaş’s mobile phone via VPN around the time of the assassination, deleting his Gmail and Facebook conversations. The Fethullahist Terror Organization (FETÖ) is believed by the Ankara government to have been behind Turkey’s July 2016 military coup attempt. As a part of investigations ongoing since last year a total of 33 suspects have testified, and seven people, including two police officers and Guru Media Broadcast Group Chairman Hayreddin Aydınbaş, were previously arrested in connection to the assassination. A former police officer, Ramazan Yücel, who was dismissed from his post over alleged links to the Gülen network, was arrested on Dec. 14 in connection to Karlov’s killing, on charges of “participating in premeditated murder.” and the assassin? surprisingly he went to gulenist schools, his references to police academy were known gulenists. he received scholarship from gulen organization all along, he became stupidly religious after contacting with the gulenist people his family say, his latest phone calls were with some other gulenists. but it's again not enough? bonus: he had no contacts with syria, never. as some twitter accounts started pushing for a propaganda actively to link him with some jihadi groups at that day. What proof you guys want? A text message from Gulen to his most trusted general in Turkey like "OK GUYS, KILL ERDOGAN! START THE COUP" or something? They wiretapped Erdogan and Chief Generals for years, leaked army plans, only amateurs would leave behind such traces. | ||
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AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10558 Posts
That was done on a weekend at a very convenient time for everyone to "notice" it? That was then used for a total purge of the opposition? The "Coup" (rofl) that only helped Erdogan? Gulen must be a real mastermind if he actually started this farce... I got absolutely no sympathy for Gulen but I imagine he isn't that stupid. | ||
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Broetchenholer
Germany1840 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
The coup is burned into my memory because of CNN's coverage. I remember watching it on around 40 minutes after it started and they had a military "expert" talking about the coup. And all I could think was "Where was this coup expert 40 minutes ago? Just chilling in CNN's lobby?" | ||
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Archeon
3249 Posts
On May 16 2018 01:37 Plansix wrote: I like this new plan of fighting wild conspiracy theories about chemical Syria with equally questionable conspiracy theories about the the coup attempt in Turkey. The coup is burned into my memory because of CNN's coverage. I remember watching it on around 40 minutes after it started and they had a military "expert" talking about the coup. And all I could think was "Where was this coup expert 40 minutes ago? Just chilling in CNN's lobby?" Isn't "expert" just a tag for "random guy we are interviewing"? At least seems that way to me when I watch TV and it's about a topic I have a rough understanding of, half the time they have less clue than I have about biology. All I remember is that every single update I read on it made me question more and more whether that coup wasn't staged/tolerated. Why are all these people giving up so fast when they are going to get court-marshalled? How did they plan to succeed if they don't have the majority of the military behind them? How are they going to take over the government when the president is out of reach? Why not do the coup when the president is there? How dumb are those people? Of course it might have as well been our media covering it badly or they put them in a bad light intentionally, but tbh I don't think our media is smart enough for the later. They hate Erdogan, but most people lack the political/historical interest to even assume that it might be staged/tolerated. The fact that the coup was extremely short lived and the gov cracked down on the opposition and intellectuals, exchanged the jurisdiction and put the blame on the guy Erdogan always blames for everything on extremely short notice didn't help. Omnious tweets telling the date of the coop beforehand doesn't help either. | ||
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
On May 15 2018 14:21 AssyrianKing wrote: Guys, history will tell you that Turks will never admit to being wrong, hell they wiped out almost their entire christian population in WW1 and still deny it, you're never going to get anywhere. I was wondering when will you pop-up and bring same old genocide card if the topic is the turks. Don't you get bored? On May 15 2018 18:36 Velr wrote: The "Coup" that was so half assed it got overthrown in ~2 hours? That was done on a weekend at a very convenient time for everyone to "notice" it? That was then used for a total purge of the opposition? The "Coup" (rofl) that only helped Erdogan? Gulen must be a real mastermind if he actually started this farce... I got absolutely no sympathy for Gulen but I imagine he isn't that stupid. It wasn't overthrown in 2 hours, coup pilots kept bombing the governmental buildings until the morning till the remaining air force destroyed their airbase totally. + Show Spoiler + - Timing was stupid, it started around 9:00 pm. But on the other hand, it was still rush hour in Istanbul, they probably thought causing big trouble will bring huge public support, as they were welcomed in some streets with applause until Erdogan draws a wild card and invites whole population into the fight. - Total purge of opposition is a false claim. Kurds were already jailed at that time, CHP remains intact and a new party has born since, which is called IYI party. Purges hit mostly state officials and soldiers. - The coup did not help Erdogan at all, I mean, he's still struggling the economic problems caused by it and if he loses the elections this time, it will be due to economical reasons. His party is almost divided, there are still Gulen sympathizers in his team. He was already purging Gulenist people, he just found a bit more public support for that. He barely won the elections after the coup, not a major victory as previous ones. On May 16 2018 00:53 Broetchenholer wrote: Again, i have no idea who did it and i am open that it was Gülen, i just don't know. The fact that none of the western media has ever picked up any of your internet meme proof, verified it and run a story on how Gülen tried to do the most incompetent coup in coup history tells me that it isn't proof at all. And yes, western independent newspapers are not absolutely neutral arbiters of truth but they are more trustworthy then the turkish state and youtube videos. I openly invited everyone to watch it and push me for more grounded versions of the coup stories mentioned in the video, it's just 5 minutes. This coup was a total disaster military-wise after a while, but you don't expect millions of people go out, get crushed by the tanks and still manage to grab the driver out of it, or convince them by talking. Some soldiers have been convinced by either their families or refused to shoot at civilians and packaged their generals, one soldier goes out with his pistol, shoots the number one general of the coup from his head and then dies in the clash, this became a major morale breakdown for remaining generals. Most iconic ones were these to watch including that gunfight: + Show Spoiler + I still think their plan was working good until Semih Terzi (n1 coup general) was hit. They seized all governmental buildings, they tried to assassinate Erdogan during his vacation, they tried to shoot down his plane, they captured airports and bridges, they disabled all turkish anti-air systems, they kidnapped the army chief general, they seized all television channels except few that was well protected by the Turkish special police forces. They bombed down the Turkish parliament... They were bringing reinforcements from other cities into Istanbul and refueling their jet engines in other cities, even in the Incirlik Airbase. However, they just underestimated the patriotic feeling of the turkish soldier, they were not mentally prepared. Some starts crying once citizens start crying and lay down arms. Plus Turkish police force is heavily weaponized, they managed to hold army advance on some critical places. Also Turkish citizens blocked highways with trucks so that tanks cant rotate etc etc. Erdogan may have heard the incoming coup in the early morning, there's a proof for that too. But it can't be staged, coup soldiers are still cursing Erdogan during the courts. (ps: Current election polls show Erdogan is at %40 percent.) | ||
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alicetaylor
1 Post
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xM(Z
Romania5268 Posts
Meeting in the Hague, more than 140 countries affiliated to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) voted by 82 to 24 to expand the body’s powers from simply investigating whether a chemical attack had occurred, to attributing responsibility. and the alleged green light(might look like a formality) give by US to Israel to attack iranian targets in Syria, Assad pushing into Daraa(which was supposed to be some sort of 'de-escalation' zone) getting the UN up in arms ... i don't know, stuff could flare up again.i'd watch the stock markets, armament and oil. | ||
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[DUF]MethodMan
Germany1716 Posts
On May 15 2018 05:15 lastpuritan wrote: It's off topic, I'll reply in spoilers. + Show Spoiler + the evidence is real. "without any proof" thing has been set to your minds. earlier in this topic I remember myself posting every single fucking proof that shows gulen was behind it, even the coup officers openly admit it in the courts nowadays but... it took its place in your mind as "not proven" so it's impossible to roll back. turkish chief general / the head of the turkish army was kidnapped that night, he is a well known secular, kemalist guy says coup generals wanted to make a skype video call between him and gulen to persuade him. it's like, all officers who had part in the coup were high link to gulen, all judges and prosecutor who fled the country after the coup now sitting next to gulen, all come from gulenist schools, only few secular kemalists involved and they openly say they it because they hate erdogan, not fan of gulen, yet you say gulen wasn't behind it. I personally advice people to look deeper into turkish sources, any source you can translate, they roughly cover the same images and videos and only legit ones are translated into english. Here, this is enough for a start, how many of these you heard in your newspapers? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Mh2gsLvT8 If you hesitate any names in this video I can send more proof about those. here are the parts of the older testimonies, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdK98Ovl4wo hating erdogan is non-relevant to turkish coup. oh god. your turkish knowledge in general is incredibly narrow that it's either about erdogan or killing kurds. oh, so your friends hate erdogan, like the other 50% of turkey, therefore gulen is innocent. great logic. Lavrov's assassination gave it away totally, I think it for the russians in general. Turkish, Russian relations grew so fast afterwards. + Show Spoiler + A Russian intelligence team was unable to crack the phone of Mevlüt Mert Altıntaş, the assassin who in late 2016 shot dead former Russian Ambassador to Turkey Andrey Karlov, daily Hürriyet reported on March 9. The team of Russian specialists, who travelled to Ankara, became the latest group to fail to crack Altıntaş’s phone. Following the failure, Turkish authorities have contacted a private company which will reportedly be arriving in Turkey for the mission in April. In December 2017, however, files on a hard disk belonging to Altıntaş were cracked by the Russian intelligence service. As part of Turkey and Russia’s joint investigation ongoing since last year, Turkish intelligence services initially completed their examination of the hard disk of Altıntaş’s laptop but were unable to retrieve the erased documents. The Russian intelligence services then requested to take the hard disk to Russia, promising “an alternative way” to examine the hard drive. The Russian intelligence services say they were able to locate two deleted files on the drive including the keywords “Fethullah Gülen” and 690 deleted files including the keyword “Hizmet,” a word that means “service” in Turkish and is used by sympathizers to refer to the movement of U.S.-based Islamic preacher Fethullah Gülen. Reports on Dec. 18 stated that social media posts and e-mails sent by Altıntaş were determined to have been deleted with the help of a virtual computer. According to findings in the investigation, members linked to the Gülen network managed to connect to Altıntaş’s mobile phone via VPN around the time of the assassination, deleting his Gmail and Facebook conversations. The Fethullahist Terror Organization (FETÖ) is believed by the Ankara government to have been behind Turkey’s July 2016 military coup attempt. As a part of investigations ongoing since last year a total of 33 suspects have testified, and seven people, including two police officers and Guru Media Broadcast Group Chairman Hayreddin Aydınbaş, were previously arrested in connection to the assassination. A former police officer, Ramazan Yücel, who was dismissed from his post over alleged links to the Gülen network, was arrested on Dec. 14 in connection to Karlov’s killing, on charges of “participating in premeditated murder.” and the assassin? surprisingly he went to gulenist schools, his references to police academy were known gulenists. he received scholarship from gulen organization all along, he became stupidly religious after contacting with the gulenist people his family say, his latest phone calls were with some other gulenists. but it's again not enough? bonus: https://twitter.com/ajaltamimi/status/811576556380422144 he had no contacts with syria, never. as some twitter accounts started pushing for a propaganda actively to link him with some jihadi groups at that day. What proof you guys want? A text message from Gulen to his most trusted general in Turkey like "OK GUYS, KILL ERDOGAN! START THE COUP" or something? They wiretapped Erdogan and Chief Generals for years, leaked army plans, only amateurs would leave behind such traces. You're asking the wrong questions. It really is not about whether Gülen instigated the coup or not. If you were loyal to your country at all, not just holy Erdogan, you would be asking how on earth a single guy could get so much power he can stage a coup from thousands of kilometers away. You know the answer, but you choose to ignore it and this is why people disagree with you. Erdogan teamed up with Gülen way back, they had similar goals afterall, an islamic Turkey. When they broke up, do you really think it was about Islam, the state or whatever political reason? I'd bet my life on it just being about money and power. Erdogan was untouchable and only Gülen could threaten him, so Gülen had to leave. Just look at all the nice jobs Erdogans family members have, how much money their clan is milking from your country. Do you even live there? Or are you just another Erdogan fanboy who enjoys freedom in the West and doesn't care about what really happens there? Because when you go to Alanya for holidays, you could care less if it was Idi Amin or Jesus in power. | ||
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
- Gulen did not leave when Erdogan was in charge. He was forced to left country because army and seculars were chasing him, knowing he obtained stupidly high power in turkish society and government departments, he went under the protection of CIA. - Gulen was in his peak power before Erdogan already, Erdogan only won the elections thanks to his powers. It was never a love relationship, today they mutually say they knew each other's plans to overthrow one another, in this case, Erdogan is a politician who earns rights to seize those powers thanks to Turkish people's votes. Gulen was just a power hungry islamic that is fed by many wealthy people and foreign interests. - Turkey was always Islamic. Islamic parties were winning again and again but seculars had all the key corners in parliement to ensure their so called balance, sometimes with coups, sometimes with other ways. - Erdogan is not untouchable, he lost the elections few years ago but nobody sided with him, TR went to re-elections. He won that time. Mostly due to weak opposition in Turkey. A good rival, Muharrem Ince had only 2 months to campaign in the last elections, he won 30% and it was record high for CHP's history. They usually stick around 22% to 27%, Ince took 30%, CHP as a party took only 22% again. It should give you a clue. Enjoying freedom in the west is the same old cliche bullshit that repeats itself again and again. No cops would rain bullets on you just because of your color in Turkey, or if you disobey simple orders like stand down or i'll shoot. You can't deny armenian genocide in few countries already, or you can't hold nazi ideology in EU, which equals to PKK in Turkish case, free speech is something still EU can't compete with the US. And I don't give a single fuck about press freedom if you're gonna mention that. You can't point me a single fucking media that is not biased, they all push their propaganda, mostly funded by the states or hostile nations. How much Putin invested in Europe? Western people go crazy for press freedom because it's their only tool to control the minds of liberal people in target countries. People easily tag RT as pro-Putin but nobody blames BBC or NYT for being pro-imperial, neo-liberal etc. Only few edgy leftists or Trumpians. If you call every Turkish that wants to protect his/her nations sovereignty as Erdogan fanboy, here you'll have your Erdogan in power until he dies at the age of 100. I've seen none, zero, null European since today that understands dynamics of Turkish society, you just embrace and stick the most obvious facts and think they're the vital ones. Like this elections, people think Erdogan only won because he got the most air time on TV and press is not free, and Demirtas is jailed, as if you remove all of these he would lose. Nobody considers the fact that Erdogan is the president, he surely gets the most air time because he almost speaks about anything and he slips some of his propaganda for elections in his every damn speech. On the other hand, nobody gives a fuck about state funded TV's, whenever he's live on TV's, the stupid Turkish tv-series get the most viewers still, nobody reads newspapers in Anatolia, and nobody gives a fuck about pro-PKK jailed Demirtas, he had it coming, and as long as he keeps being pro-kurdish- pro pkk figure, he won't be reaching beyond 11-15% of the votes. The only way to topple down Erdogan is completely ignoring him, feeding him, and produce a secondary Erdogan-type politician who may got liberal votes, religious and nationalist votes at once. If you ban Turkish rallies on Germany, and then grant it to the PKK, you're only feeding his narrative. Whatever, deal with Erdogan, Eu created him, Eu blessed him for years, now EU wants to get rid of him because he's no more playing into western interest ever. And the only crosspath we have with him is this. I'm spoiled as he jails your pro pkk journos and crack down your coup plotter cia linked religious bigots. And of course The US will never give Gulen back, just think about what's gonna happen if he confess all the operations he's done with CIA within and outside Turkey, they were running anti-russian campaigns in turkic countries that are close to Russia for example. Putin said he has no doubts it was Gulenist pro nato soldiers that made TR to shoot down Russian fighter. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22392 Posts
THE HAGUE, Netherlands —6 July 2018—The Fact-Finding Mission (FFM) of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), issued an interim report on the FFM’s investigation to date regarding the allegations of chemical weapons use in Douma, Syria on 7 April 2018. The FFM’s activities in Douma included on-site visits to collect environmental samples, interviews with witnesses, data collection. In a neighbouring country, the FFM team gathered or received biological and environmental samples, and conducted witness interviews. OPCW designated labs conducted analysis of prioritised samples. The results show that no organophosphorous nerve agents or their degradation products were detected in the environmental samples or in the plasma samples taken from alleged casualties. Along with explosive residues, various chlorinated organic chemicals were found in samples from two sites, for which there is full chain of custody. Work by the team to establish the significance of these results is on-going. The FFM team will continue its work to draw final conclusions. www.opcw.org | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4309 Posts
On July 10 2018 08:44 a_flayer wrote: What? But the CNN reporter could smell it on the bag when she stuffed her face in there. How can this be. My world is falling apart. Good thing we showed restraint and didn't kill a bunch of working-class janitors and night guards over this for nothing as they were working at the facility that may or may not have had a research lab that could have produced what turned out to an irritant? I mean, those people might have had wives and children, after all. Is there anyone that trusts CNN anymore? Everyone above 90 IQ knew the chemical attacks were either staged or fake news. | ||
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