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Please guys, stay on topic.
This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. |
Well...
On April 11 2018 20:25 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2018 20:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 11 2018 20:11 Gorsameth wrote:On April 11 2018 18:56 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 11 2018 18:53 Gorsameth wrote:On April 11 2018 18:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 11 2018 18:43 Gorsameth wrote:On April 11 2018 18:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 11 2018 18:17 Gorsameth wrote:On April 11 2018 08:17 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Shouldn't they at least confirm the attacks even happened, let alone as described?
Also what comes after Russia shoots one down? Do you honestly think there is no active surveillance of a warzone, especially by countries active in the region? Of course there is surveillance? So your comment of Shouldn't they at least confirm the attacks even happened, let alone as described? is pointless and you knew it. Good. So you're suggesting they know for a fact that it was what some are alleging and are just choosing not to confirm it? Or what? I mean obviously the US intelligence community is somewhat notorious for outright lying, especially when there's a war on the horizon, but best I can tell they confirmed Israel hit Syria, but not that the chemical attack is what it's purported to be by some. EDIT: It's almost a tangential issue though when the solution from the west is conventional bombs instead of 'chemical weapons'. Thank you for explaining. But try saying what you obviously mean instead of something else that can easily be misinterpreted. It helps a conversation. I honestly don't get the misinterpretation? If you want to make the point that there was no attack or that someone else attacked or something else happened and this is being used as a cover by the US, UK and France to attack Assad then say that. Speak plainly. I was making the point that we aren't so much as even going through the motions that of pretending this is justified, though my previous posts on the topic demonstrate I wouldn't think it justified if it was exactly what some are claiming. More specifically, that we should at least confirm the attacks happened and as reported before we drop more totally not chemical weapons inevitably killing civilians in retaliation. Who should confirm? The intelligence agencies say it's confirmed. The press has photos of people in misery. Who, exactly, should confirm this (the OPCW investigation?), and how long should we wait with reacting while this confirmation happens?
Yes we should have waited before reacting to what it seems still (as it did then) didn't happen, certainly not as the propaganda from places like CNN and pretty much everywhere else alleged.
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TLADT24920 Posts
People are extremely gullible and easy to manipulate. You should know this by now GH. It was obvious after what took place with the war on terror.
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On July 10 2018 11:39 BigFan wrote:
People are extremely gullible and easy to manipulate. You should know this by now GH. It was obvious after what took place with the war on terror.
What gets me is this site (and these threads) typically attract people more informed than the general population. To see people gobble up the propaganda so eagerly and chastise responsible skepticism seemed pointedly political in nature, as skepticism is generally the default position of virtually everything posted anywhere on the site.
People died, lives destroyed, and potentially deadly (but legal) chemicals were scattered by our (what appear to be) completely unjustified reactionary strikes.
Like you don't bomb people and sort it out later, that's so pathologically disturbing it was weird seeing it naked and on display here from people who consider themselves "on the left", Fox News comment section sure, but this "liberal" bastion?
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TLADT24920 Posts
I understand you completely and think it's stupid and terrible how these keep happening and people keep believing everything they hear. Not sure what else one can do though other then keep trying to inform the masses.
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On July 10 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Looks like the chemical attack alleged by the US probably didn't happen Show nested quote +THE HAGUE, Netherlands —6 July 2018—The Fact-Finding Mission (FFM) of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), issued an interim report on the FFM’s investigation to date regarding the allegations of chemical weapons use in Douma, Syria on 7 April 2018.
The FFM’s activities in Douma included on-site visits to collect environmental samples, interviews with witnesses, data collection. In a neighbouring country, the FFM team gathered or received biological and environmental samples, and conducted witness interviews.
OPCW designated labs conducted analysis of prioritised samples. The results show that no organophosphorous nerve agents or their degradation products were detected in the environmental samples or in the plasma samples taken from alleged casualties. Along with explosive residues, various chlorinated organic chemicals were found in samples from two sites, for which there is full chain of custody. Work by the team to establish the significance of these results is on-going. The FFM team will continue its work to draw final conclusions. www.opcw.org
Maybe don't chortle quite yet when your own source says residues of chlorinated organic chemicals were found, and the initial reports were about chlorine gas attacks, and just the wilder ones alleged organophosphate nerve agents (sarin).
Now, chlorine has plenty of legitimate uses, such as treating water or as an industrial disinfectant (it is a hospital after all). But it can also be weaponized, and that's why there is "ongoing work" to establish what these particular chlorinated substances are. It is further worth mentioning that similar chlorinated organic compounds were found in sites of confirmed attacks with chemical weapons (in Syria).
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On July 10 2018 17:32 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2018 07:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Looks like the chemical attack alleged by the US probably didn't happen THE HAGUE, Netherlands —6 July 2018—The Fact-Finding Mission (FFM) of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), issued an interim report on the FFM’s investigation to date regarding the allegations of chemical weapons use in Douma, Syria on 7 April 2018.
The FFM’s activities in Douma included on-site visits to collect environmental samples, interviews with witnesses, data collection. In a neighbouring country, the FFM team gathered or received biological and environmental samples, and conducted witness interviews.
OPCW designated labs conducted analysis of prioritised samples. The results show that no organophosphorous nerve agents or their degradation products were detected in the environmental samples or in the plasma samples taken from alleged casualties. Along with explosive residues, various chlorinated organic chemicals were found in samples from two sites, for which there is full chain of custody. Work by the team to establish the significance of these results is on-going. The FFM team will continue its work to draw final conclusions. www.opcw.org Maybe don't chortle quite yet when your own source says residues of chlorinated organic chemicals were found, and the initial reports were about chlorine gas attacks, and just the wilder ones alleged organophosphate nerve agents (sarin). Now, chlorine has plenty of legitimate uses, such as treating water or as an industrial disinfectant (it is a hospital after all). But it can also be weaponized, and that's why there is "ongoing work" to establish what these particular chlorinated substances are. It is further worth mentioning that similar chlorinated organic compounds were found in sites of confirmed attacks with chemical weapons (in Syria).
I wouldn't call it chortling, but's the point was the widespread propaganda pushed by US intel and propagated by US media about the nerve agent in the blood was bullshit. If you want to believe the rest, you can.
As for a Chlorine gas attack, they suck but they would kill less civilians than our "retaliatory" conventional bombs. I'm not one who prefers blowing people apart to using what's basically slightly more lethal (and a lot more painful) teargas.
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This is a good article on Syria:
https://theintercept.com/2018/07/08/syria-books-kassem-eid-marwan-hisham-molly-crabapple/
It describes the two sides against Assad quite well: it provides the view of one former Palestinian person who was gassed by Assad and then took up arms against him. And another person who lived in Raqqa and saw the rebellion he hoped would win him his freedom turned into an foreigner-infested Islamist hellhole.
Although it does leave out some of the more covert financial/media lead-up to the chaos and conflicts in terms of foreign intervention in Syria, I think. It's hard to accurately measure these things without a serious investigation and a lot of hard statistics.
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Huh. I remember watching CNN around that time and they had a lot of talking heads speculating about how it could have been sarin or something else but they couldn't confirm that. I always had the impression (from other US media) it was probably chlorine used and those tomahawk strikes were Trump just wanting to flex his figurative muscles by blowing some stuff up. Is there an article or video out there where CNN confirms it to be sarin?
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As I eat my dinner, on one of our bigger local TV media (btv) the news said that a BBC reporter can prove that footage from the hospital in the chemical attack in Douma was staged and the "victims" were paid actors (although it was a pretty short report). I got a bit baffled by it, because our media normally don't report sensitive stuff like government supported corruption or big international news before other MSM.
So i googled it and aside from the russian news sites, a few of our smaller local news sites, and some other sites had information on it. Is information from those other sites like this one credible?
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-02-14/bbc-shocks-douma-gas-attack-scene-staged-producer-says-after-6-month-syria
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Well Tyler Durden wrote it, so clearly that is reputable and should be taken seriously.
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This is exactly what a lot of people back including myself feared then. Also the guys that are seen in the video are the same guys that beheaded a 11yo palestinian boy earlier. Nasty jihadi filth and the West loves to support them. It's sickening and I really am disappointed. It is indescribable how much I hate jihadis.. Quite frankly I want them all dead those murdering torturing bastards. The cruelty and genocide or in the least androcide and forced conversions plus Sex slavery is the worst that has befallen us in a long time.
However the West insists it's only Assas that is at fault. So dishonest. And now we're going to get all the jihadis back here to pamler them and await the occasional terror attack,
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BAGHDAD/WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is believed to have been killed in a U.S. military operation in Syria, sources in Syria, Iraq and Iran said on Sunday, as U.S. President Donald Trump prepared to make a “major statement” at the White House.
A U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, told Reuters that Baghdadi was targeted in the overnight raid but was unable to say whether the operation was successful.
A commander of one of the militant factions in the northwestern Syrian province of Idlib said Baghdadi was believed to have been killed in a raid after midnight on Saturday involving helicopters, warplanes and a ground clash in the village of Brisha near the Turkish border.
Two Iraqi security sources and two Iranian officials said they had received confirmation from inside Syria that Baghdadi had been killed.
www.reuters.com
Looks like Al baghdadi has finally been killed. Hopefully this will be the end of IS as well although I doubt it.
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EPT
