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On April 09 2018 03:56 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 03:54 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2018 03:51 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:On April 09 2018 03:31 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:29 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Inno going full Maru with the Bio switch + Raven ghost This is TY's tvz lategame. With the high SCV-count and everything. TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe. Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. but the Bio transition (Marines, Stim, Combatshield) got popularized by Maru. TY was going for those in the IEM qualifiers against soO but soO committed sudoku before it got there, and he also made attempts at it on stream vs Solar. So the idea existed in v1.0 of the playstyle already, Maru just executes it better (and more because he's all around better TvZ than TY so he gets there more). But hey, on the plus side, against Protoss players that aren't sOs TY is more solid than Maru Well it's hard to credit one player for inventing a strategy when a lot of that happens in practice. Maru was the first one who had major success with it on a big stage so it's fair to say he "popularized" that style even if he didn't invent it. TY crushed soO with it in IEM qualifiers and brought Dark to the brink in GSL weeks before Maru played the style for the first time. If nothing else, with those games he popularized the idea and gave the thought of transitioning into ghosts from mech merit.
Didn't TY make his ghosts much earlier though? Not full mech into a ghost transition, but rather ghosts alongside mech.
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On April 09 2018 03:53 pvsnp wrote:He didn't want to play bio cross-server so he went mech
make sense
It is me or have INno been lifting ?
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On April 09 2018 03:57 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 03:56 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:54 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2018 03:51 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:On April 09 2018 03:31 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:29 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Inno going full Maru with the Bio switch + Raven ghost This is TY's tvz lategame. With the high SCV-count and everything. TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe. Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. but the Bio transition (Marines, Stim, Combatshield) got popularized by Maru. TY was going for those in the IEM qualifiers against soO but soO committed sudoku before it got there, and he also made attempts at it on stream vs Solar. So the idea existed in v1.0 of the playstyle already, Maru just executes it better (and more because he's all around better TvZ than TY so he gets there more). But hey, on the plus side, against Protoss players that aren't sOs TY is more solid than Maru Well it's hard to credit one player for inventing a strategy when a lot of that happens in practice. Maru was the first one who had major success with it on a big stage so it's fair to say he "popularized" that style even if he didn't invent it. TY crushed soO with it in IEM qualifiers and brought Dark to the brink in GSL weeks before Maru played the style for the first time. If nothing else, with those games he popularized the idea and gave the thought of transitioning into ghosts from mech merit. Didn't TY make his ghosts much earlier though? Not full mech into a ghost transition, but rather ghosts alongside mech.
No, only in the infamous game vs Rogue at IEM where he was miles behind and tried to catch up with 140 ghost tech.
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On April 09 2018 03:56 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 03:54 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2018 03:51 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:On April 09 2018 03:31 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:29 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Inno going full Maru with the Bio switch + Raven ghost This is TY's tvz lategame. With the high SCV-count and everything. TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe. Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. but the Bio transition (Marines, Stim, Combatshield) got popularized by Maru. TY was going for those in the IEM qualifiers against soO but soO committed sudoku before it got there, and he also made attempts at it on stream vs Solar. So the idea existed in v1.0 of the playstyle already, Maru just executes it better (and more because he's all around better TvZ than TY so he gets there more). But hey, on the plus side, against Protoss players that aren't sOs TY is more solid than Maru Well it's hard to credit one player for inventing a strategy when a lot of that happens in practice. Maru was the first one who had major success with it on a big stage so it's fair to say he "popularized" that style even if he didn't invent it. TY crushed soO with it in IEM qualifiers and brought Dark to the brink in GSL weeks before Maru played the style for the first time. If nothing else, with those games he popularized the idea and gave the thought of transitioning into ghosts from mech merit.
Maru has been getting strats from TY for most of LoTV. Mostly in TvT but TvZ as well.
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On April 09 2018 03:57 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 03:56 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:54 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2018 03:51 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:On April 09 2018 03:31 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:29 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Inno going full Maru with the Bio switch + Raven ghost This is TY's tvz lategame. With the high SCV-count and everything. TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe. Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. but the Bio transition (Marines, Stim, Combatshield) got popularized by Maru. TY was going for those in the IEM qualifiers against soO but soO committed sudoku before it got there, and he also made attempts at it on stream vs Solar. So the idea existed in v1.0 of the playstyle already, Maru just executes it better (and more because he's all around better TvZ than TY so he gets there more). But hey, on the plus side, against Protoss players that aren't sOs TY is more solid than Maru Well it's hard to credit one player for inventing a strategy when a lot of that happens in practice. Maru was the first one who had major success with it on a big stage so it's fair to say he "popularized" that style even if he didn't invent it. TY crushed soO with it in IEM qualifiers and brought Dark to the brink in GSL weeks before Maru played the style for the first time. If nothing else, with those games he popularized the idea and gave the thought of transitioning into ghosts from mech merit. Didn't TY make his ghosts much earlier though? Not full mech into a ghost transition, but rather ghosts alongside mech.
That's another build where he just made ghosts right at the start alongside hellbats and got some easy ladder points back when cloak was free 
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On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:On April 09 2018 03:31 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:29 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Inno going full Maru with the Bio switch + Raven ghost This is TY's tvz lategame. With the high SCV-count and everything. TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe. Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta  Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability.
Okay, makes sense
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On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:On April 09 2018 03:31 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:29 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Inno going full Maru with the Bio switch + Raven ghost This is TY's tvz lategame. With the high SCV-count and everything. TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe. Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability.
Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army
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On April 09 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:On April 09 2018 03:31 sneakyfox wrote:
[quote]
This is TY's tvz lategame. With the high SCV-count and everything. TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe. Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability. Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army
Yeah. Add in 10-15 supply of anything to INnoVation's army when Reynor was attacking and he holds a lot better.
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On April 09 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:On April 09 2018 03:31 sneakyfox wrote:
[quote]
This is TY's tvz lategame. With the high SCV-count and everything. TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe. Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability. Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army
TY lost games because he made 90 SCVs and then attacked with 110 army supply lol
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On April 09 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:On April 09 2018 03:31 sneakyfox wrote:
[quote]
This is TY's tvz lategame. With the high SCV-count and everything. TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe. Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability. Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army
If it would be a mistake players (not just TY) wouldn't do it.
Pro players don't just accidentally make way too many scvs in every game lol. If it's 1 game you can say it's a mistake but it's clearly intentional.
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On April 09 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:On April 09 2018 03:31 sneakyfox wrote:
[quote]
This is TY's tvz lategame. With the high SCV-count and everything. TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe. Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability. Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army
It's usually because people hit at just the right timing. At max with 20 ghosts it wouldn't hurt as much to get attacked because ghosts can be super efficient, but if you get pushed pretty early you're prone to... well fucking dying.
Although there was that legendary Acolyte game where TY went to 96+ SCVs when just making more army to reinforce his tank push would have killed Dark.
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On April 09 2018 04:04 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:
[quote]
TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe.
Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability. Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army Yeah. Add in 10-15 supply of anything to INnoVation's army when Reynor was attacking and he holds a lot better.
And then he loses the game because he has no money
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On April 09 2018 04:06 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 04:04 Boggyb wrote:On April 09 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability. Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army Yeah. Add in 10-15 supply of anything to INnoVation's army when Reynor was attacking and he holds a lot better. And then he loses the game because he has no money
Pretty sure Inno was in very little danger of running out of money in that game. Cutting 10-15 scvs wouldn't hurt him at all with seven bases and a shitload of mules.
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On April 09 2018 04:05 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:
[quote]
TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe.
Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability. Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army If it would be a mistake players (not just TY) wouldn't do it. Pro players don't just accidentally make way too many scvs in every game lol. If it's 1 game you can say it's a mistake but it's clearly intentional.
IIRC in the balance show with TY the korean casters asked him about the insane amount of workers and he said he has to get better at not making too many. While the idea of having more workers than usual seems to be intentional, maybe having 100 is still a bit too much :D (though all of that depends on the gamestate anyway)
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On April 09 2018 04:12 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 04:05 Charoisaur wrote:On April 09 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability. Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army If it would be a mistake players (not just TY) wouldn't do it. Pro players don't just accidentally make way too many scvs in every game lol. If it's 1 game you can say it's a mistake but it's clearly intentional. IIRC in the balance show with TY the korean casters asked him about the insane amount of workers and he said he has to get better at not making too many. While the idea of having more workers than usual seems to be intentional, maybe having 100 is still a bit too much :D (though all of that depends on the gamestate anyway)
80-85 still seems fine, but 90+ seem too much.
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On April 09 2018 04:05 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 03:36 MarianoSC2 wrote:
[quote]
TYs TvZ sucks, and Inno almost lost this so yeah, maybe.
Inno wanted to do a Maru switch but he just cant play that as well The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability. Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army It's usually because people hit at just the right timing. At max with 20 ghosts it wouldn't hurt as much to get attacked because ghosts can be super efficient, but if you get pushed pretty early you're prone to... well fucking dying. Although there was that legendary Acolyte game where TY went to 96+ SCVs when just making more army to reinforce his tank push would have killed Dark.
Plus, I think the whole strategy aims to take an economic victory. You can see how TY (and then Maru) remain quite passive through the whole game and try to exhaust the Zerg by withstanding every blow. By having higher income than usual, and by using the super efficient units (mech, which is even more effective when defending, and ghost/raven). Add in defenders advantage when reinforcing, and it does make sense to have more workers.
At least that's how I understand it.
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On April 09 2018 04:15 sneakyfox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2018 04:05 Elentos wrote:On April 09 2018 04:02 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:57 Ej_ wrote:On April 09 2018 03:55 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:46 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:45 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:43 Fango wrote:On April 09 2018 03:42 sneakyfox wrote:On April 09 2018 03:40 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
The ghost switch from mech got popularized by TY even if Maru (and Inno too) is a better TvZ player overall. Precisely. And even the high SCV count is now becoming lategame tvz meta Really? It still looks more like a mistake than something that's intentional. Don't think it even could be a mistake when doing it for that long. Maybe having 100 instead of 90 or so, but not more than that. Iirc Maru has done it too? I think they were just too used to constantly making SCVs tbh. That and they expect to be taking more damage than they actually are. I don't see a reason to have 100 workers unless you're mining from 5 full bases or using them for something else. TY has lost games while having to many workers because his army was too small. Yeah, TY definitely has had too many in games in the past. But I think its very intentional now. It seems like it is a part of trying to mine out the map before the opponent, perhaps in a move towards less aggression. Tbh I don't think you would see it that much from several players if it was a mistake. You can make over 80 SCVs with this style, because you don't do timing pushes, so you don't need more army supply. And having more workers is always better if it doesn't affect your fighting ability. Surely it does effect your fighting ability by simply havig fewer units? TY has done this loads and always seems really vunerable to being pushed. He's lost a few games when he clearly has too small an army It's usually because people hit at just the right timing. At max with 20 ghosts it wouldn't hurt as much to get attacked because ghosts can be super efficient, but if you get pushed pretty early you're prone to... well fucking dying. Although there was that legendary Acolyte game where TY went to 96+ SCVs when just making more army to reinforce his tank push would have killed Dark. Plus, I think the whole strategy aims to take an economic victory. You can see how TY (and then Maru) remain quite passive through the whole game and try to exhaust the Zerg by withstanding every blow. By having higher income than usual, and by using the super efficient units (mech, which is even more effective when defending, and ghost/raven). Add in defenders advantage when reinforcing, and it does make sense to have more workers. At least that's how I understand it.
I wouldn't say Maru plays that passively. He's generally super active hellions and banshees (and eventually Ghosts with nukes) keeping the Zerg running around and off his side of the map.
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P O S E I D O N strats vs Marc the Explorer and the #YearOfHarstem
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Hopefully we get a Harstem all kill and avoid the inevitable 30 minute Snute vs Terran game.
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EPT
