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On August 09 2016 04:06 StarFoxeR wrote:
Is trying to 1 rax expand vs protoss too ambitious for a newer player ? I try to copy flash but my friend just destroys me. Anyone got some good fpvods or replays of good players doing a FD or something thats a bit easier so I can copy their building placement at the same time as the build. Building placement is still really difficult for me for whatever reason.
1) Play the build order you want. If 1 rax expand gets too annoying, yes, try FD or siege-expand.
2) It's always good if you post a replay. I don't know how good your friend is, but maybe you can beat him or at least not get destroyed if you have some advice on what exactly you're doing wrong.
3) If you want to learn the FD, just use the Liquidpedia-article: FD. There are lots of VoDs linked there, not FPVods, but you can still copy the building placement, and if you want FirstPerson, just pick any Terran-Stream on the right and watch for 1/2 hour.
4) Everything you need to know about building-placement is written here. You'll see that the Pros use basically these rules, but the result just looks a bit different on each map and starting location, admittingly sometimes a bit confusing. There's no way around learing them one by one, just start with Fighting Spirit and learn the 4 different variations (for each starting location) by heart. Check out Cryoc's post in the thread, page 267 for an idea. Or check out Light's Post about "Terran Simcity and Hotkeys 1" (takes forever to load all the pictures, but it's a Progamer's buildling-placement-advice...)
Practicing good building-placement in the singleplayer is key if you cannot do it on the fly (hardly anyone can at first). You want: a) a big space for your factories, from where the units can walk to the ramp easily, and think ahead where you want to build your 3/4/5 addons b) build blocks/lines of depots in a place where they don't cause problems, hugging corners of the screen for example, to have more room in your base c) then there is special stuff that can only be learned bit by bit, like: where to place your turrets and how much space to leave between them; in TvP especially: how to build your depot to the right of your barracks (...), so that the two buildings create a wall that is zealot-tight but let's marines slip through (for early-game zealot-defense)
5) Once more on 1rax expand: Yes, the build is definitely harder to pull off at first because you get your CC before your initial fighting-forces. If your friend knows you'll do this build, he can scout early, worker-harrass you or just send 1-2 earlier zealots and cause big problems. Also goon-aggression works well against not-so-solid players who go 1rax expo.
With FD you will have at least something to fend of his attacks and secure your natural with mines, a bunker if you want, and soon siege-mode - even if you make 1-2 little build-order mistakes. With 1rax expand, there's basically no room for mistakes. You also need considerably more control and multi-tasking for things like microing in the natural and managing your main at the same time, keep repairing the bunker all the time, not let him run-by your bunker, not let him snipe your first siege-tank... and even if you came this far, you have only a decent macro-advantage that can disappear super-quickly if you make any mistake.
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On August 09 2016 04:06 StarFoxeR wrote:
Is trying to 1 rax expand vs protoss too ambitious for a newer player ? I try to copy flash but my friend just destroys me. Anyone got some good fpvods or replays of good players doing a FD or something thats a bit easier so I can copy their building placement at the same time as the build. Building placement is still really difficult for me for whatever reason.
Pro replays: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/310883-replays
Try noob builds like 2 fact pressure. Then transition to real builds later.
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Thanks very helpful. I was making some progress then went on vacation now Im worse again. But I'll keep trying.
If your friend knows you'll do this build, he can scout early, worker-harrass you or just send 1-2 earlier zealots and cause big problems. Also goon-aggression works well against not-so-solid players who go 1rax expo.
With FD you will have at least something to fend of his attacks and secure your natural with mines, a bunker if you want, and soon siege-mode - even if you make 1-2 little build-order mistakes. With 1rax expand, there's basically no room for mistakes.
This is basically whats happening atm vs my friends Toss. lol I'll stick with FD for now until I feel a little more comfortable in BW.
Practicing good building-placement in the singleplayer is key if you cannot do it on the fly
When you say single player do you just mean a game on Fighting Spirit vs the CPU or do you mean Campaign mode or something.
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On August 09 2016 05:44 StarFoxeR wrote:Show nested quote +Practicing good building-placement in the singleplayer is key if you cannot do it on the fly When you say single player do you just mean a game on Fighting Spirit vs the CPU or do you mean Campaign mode or something.
sorry, didn't clarify that.
I just meant to play a game as if you were all by yourself, without thinking about the opponent.
The best way to do that is to open up a game online like you would do for melee/ladder, then you add the CPU, then you press start, then you quickly kick the CPU (by opening/closing the slot), then click on "continue playing" after the game started, and just do your thing without any distraction 
This only works online.
You can also go into the singleplayer and play a game with 1 CPU, but you should really ignore the CPU for build-order practice, because CPUs behave nothing like real players. You'll develop bad habits if you practice vs CPUs too much in the beginning (imo). If you just want to test something out like building-placement you can use cheats in the singleplayer to not even bother with killing the CPU first or manually mine thousands of minerals.
In my opinion it's best to completely separate playing vs real people and stuff like practicing build-orders/building-placement/micro/hotkeys in the beginning of learning these things. You want to practice the latter with NO distraction at first, that shortens the initial learning process. Once you feel good and your replays don't look horrible any more, you should transition to playing vs real people of your skill lvl or slightly above yours (or really good people if you can take a beating).
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iyjY8ZG.png)
Is this fact placement decent/ok ? its the best Ive done so far
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Pretty good, only thing I would change is to building the clump of 6 factories 1 hex further down and to the left for slightly bigger paths for your units. It helps you defending versus drops/recalls, when you have to get your army back to the main.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BMDqUkA.jpg)
Ok now I tried my best to figure out the placement for TvZ does this look ok for like 3 bases ? If I can get a 4th or 5th should I make another set of production buildings in another main since this one is filled up ?
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It is okay. When you are taking your 4th and 5th, you don't need much additional production, if at all, because usually your main and natural should be about to mine out so you still have only 3 bases mining. Additional production at the other main serves more the purpose of reinforcing your far away expansions, in case you temporarily lose map control of your side of the map. If you stay on M&M and mass tanks, 2 Factories and 2 Barracks at your second main is enough.
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In Light's guide he mentioned putting Marines on 1 and 2 Medics on 3 tanks on 4 and vessels on 5 in TvZ. What do I do when I have more than 2 groups of marines ? Just start producing manually ? I was planning on putting 1 rax on 6 1 fact on 7 and 1 starport on 8 to check production but seems like I produce a lot of marines so It makes that impossible. Should I be making less marines or something ? Trading them more ? Or just accept in TvZ I will have to dedicate most hotkeys to Marines ? Also any advice on hotkeying them? Like for instance I have a fight now I have 4 control groups of marines with like 5 marines in each one. Seems like I have organization troubles like that. Since Someone asked for a replay I was trying to upload one but im having issues with bwreplays.com at the moment. It uploads then I cant find it anywhere.
http://bwreplays.com/ajevd
http://bwreplays.com/ntlxe
heres the replays but dont think they are working at the moment.
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I don't play terran but brood war is all about having dynamic hotkeys. In the early game you can have 2-3 hotkeys dedicated to marines and even have medics on 4. (CCs 5-6 and barracks 7-8 or you can even chose to not hotkey CCs and exclusively use location hotkeys). Then when you approach the late game, you often don't hotkey CCs anymore to free up hotkeys for more ComSats and to hotkey tanks and vessels instead.
For example:
Early game
1-3 marines
4 medics
5-6 CCs
7- Barracks
8 ??
9-0 Comsats
Mid game
1-3 marines
4 medics
5 Tanks
6 Vessels
7- Factory or Starport (Location hotkeys for barracks)
8-0 Comsats
Experiment versus the PC and find what's most comfortable and useful to you. You can spend some time thinking about an optimal set up for you.
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You only need one hotkey to jump to your macro area and to build units. So in the late game you can use 1-6 for units, 7 for a Barracks and 8-0 for Comsats. If 3 control groups of marines are still not enough, you can fill up the medic group. You need more actions to stim those, but it is better than leaving them at home. Same goes for the tank and vessel group, but then it will be harder to siege or irradiate something far away.
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In TvZ you have to put a lot of pressure on Zerg or you will get outmacroed. Thus, if you play bio, you will hardly ever have more than 3-4 control-groups of M&M until to the lategame (or you won't have tanks or vessels). In the lategame, because of dark swarm there are not many situations where you will profit from attacking with a bio-heavy army that requires more than 5-6 hotkeys. You either switch to mech (aka: need less control groups) or you'll find yourself with small-sized to medium-sized armies in different locations that can not all be hotkeyed while still separating marines from medics/tanks anyways. Keep that in mind.
Apart from that, two more hints to what Cryoc wrote:
1.) You can still select only the marines (or tanks) of a control-group by pressing ctrl and clicking on a green marine-icon (or tank-icon) at the bottom-center of the screen. This doesn't take more than a split-second if you're used to it. Then you can stim (or siege - or a-move only with your tanks, for example against lurkers).
2.) Even the pros pack marines into their medic-groups or tank-groups, so this is by no means bad. In similar fashion they just make a box around all the reinforcing mech-units at the rally-point in TvP, send them to the front asap because that's more important for them than separating vultures from tanks at that moment. Roughly speaking: In certain phases of the game it's more important to have all your stuff hotkeyed somehow to be able to reinforce and move your army quickly.
Additionally, what B-Royal wrote about a personal, dynamic hotkey-setup is absolutely true. This also includes that you know about the different uses of shift and ctrl for organizing your control-groups super-quickly on the fly.
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Hey guys,
Anybody have a reaver micro map that I can steal? Looks like there were posts from 6 years ago, but the links are dead:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/bw-strategy/144777-reaver-micro-map
Derail prophylaxis:
Yes, I know that multitasking is important, but I can practice this in a real game. Specifically looking to work in my micro to maximize harass opportunities
Thanks!
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Norway28520 Posts
reaver micro is imo one of the most fruitful vs-computer micro scenarios. (along with muta vs scourge I guess). you're really trying to perfect your ability to drop reaver, target unit, pickup immediately after. Reaver drop scenarios rarely feature 20 seconds of constant micro, so you're not necessarily missing production cycles. This is very different from a 2 hatch muta vs terran for example, where you are constantly microing and a lot of the challenge relates to successfully adding mutas to your stack without also rallying your drones to his natural.
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My replays are working now if anyone still wants to take a look (forgot who said to post a few). =)
http://bwreplays.com/ajevd
http://bwreplays.com/ntlxe
also my friend is the Zerg so if anything stands out in his play I will relay the info. We are both loving BW atm.
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On August 10 2016 07:48 StarFoxeR wrote:My replays are working now if anyone still wants to take a look (forgot who said to post a few). =) http://bwreplays.com/ajevdhttp://bwreplays.com/ntlxealso my friend is the Zerg so if anything stands out in his play I will relay the info. We are both loving BW atm.
watching atm (surprised to see myself on the front page of that site too  )
first game I'm watching is the one where you're bottom right and the zerg is top right:
some minor things, shift-click the SCV making the CC onto the minerals so it starts mining as soon as it's done
make medics as soon as your academy is up, you had like 30 marines before you made a single medic and moved out into the map more than once without them
you can go double starport science vessels but you only had one SCV on your natural gas (and only one on gas at your third too actually)
always run away from lurkers under swarm, you stood there fighting them for quite a while at one point
build a bunker or two at your third to defend it, you lost a ton of SCVs to a few units
the main thing to work on is your macro, at 20 minutes into the game you had 5k minerals and under 100 supply, you could have made like 7 factories and gone for a mech switch way before that point
second game you're top left zerg is bottom right:
you went CC before marine, and then made 2nd barracks before your first marine, a bit risky considering you hadn't scouted him yet, he was going 12 hatch but any fast pool build would catch you out doing that
you only had 2 SCVs on your main gas all game, little things like that make a big difference
remake medics when you lose some, at one point in this game you had like 90 marines but just 3 medics, and none with the forces gathering at your natural, and also groups of marines around the place with no medics, just make sure you you always have at least 1-2 medics with every group of marines you have on the map
you lost a bunch of SCVs and 2 CCs to pure lings, lift the CC and maynard the SCVs to a safe base, I know you have to do it really quickly, it's all about reaction time and there's a lot going on but saving things like that will help you a lot
again you can go double starport vessel for double the irradiate
I would recommend more decisively pushing towards this guy's main, you were almost maxed at one point but it took a while to take out his expansion with having to go up the ramp, just push straight to his natural, if you can take that out and get in his main then you can kill all his tech and it's gg, perhaps try making a couple dropships and doing marine+medic drops on his expansions as you're heading for his main.
Also the zerg has his opening build down pretty well, just needs to work on later game macro
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Just to clarify some tips from jello:
If you're going to mech switch, don't get two starports. If you're going bio, get two e-bays and two starports. When you're playing low level games anything works but as you go up this is how it goes.
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In the KT Giga Legends showmatch, Tasteless mentioned that on Blue Storm you can build proxy gateways in the opponents main such that the gates block the pylon from being attacked by scvs. Anyone know what the positioning is- not going to abuse this on iccup or anything, just curious :D.
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On August 11 2016 01:33 f10eqq wrote:
In the KT Giga Legends showmatch, Tasteless mentioned that on Blue Storm you can build proxy gateways in the opponents main such that the gates block the pylon from being attacked by scvs. Anyone know what the positioning is- not going to abuse this on iccup or anything, just curious :D.
I don't think that's true to be honest, SCVs can always fit in the gaps between gateways and pylons, I just did some quick testing but couldn't get it to work, best thing I found is you can build a pylon on the high ground and 2 gates in their base using that.
Like so:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/n6sfAyK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NzTuU6s.jpg)
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Norway28520 Posts
pretty certain that is what he was alluding to. It was really popular at some point.
as a terran though, it's fairly easy to block the bottom gate (from both locations) but blocking the top one is super hard. still, going from fighting a proxy 2 gate to fighting a proxy 1 gate is often likely to be the difference between life and death.
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EPT
