EPT2) Everyone knows about 'the Eraser', but has anyone seen or done a three- or four-vessel Eraser?
Seems like the drones would die super-duper-fast that way, with no chance to get away at all.
Simple Questions, Simple Answers - Page 268
| Forum Index > Brood War Strategy |
|
[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
2) Everyone knows about 'the Eraser', but has anyone seen or done a three- or four-vessel Eraser? Seems like the drones would die super-duper-fast that way, with no chance to get away at all. | ||
|
ortseam
996 Posts
On July 27 2016 06:38 StarFoxeR wrote: What do you guys think a new player should do Vs Z ? Would sticking to the old MnM tank/vessel style be easier and forget the mech switch ? or do the mech switch late game ? I copied a Flash build from his stream where he goes from 4 Barracks 1 Fact 1 starport to all mech. Not sure how much production I should add when I take my third since he just floats away his Rax and restarts his base basically and goes Mech. If you decide to go the bio way, I suggest 2 things which help a lot (talking as a D zerg): 1) Use dropships a lot. Best targets are: mineral line, spire, pool (obv defiler mound before consume is done too) 2) If zergs gets 4 gas, get a forth at the remaining main and make sure you have at least 2 factories per main. Start queuing tanks | ||
|
Highgamer
1470 Posts
On July 29 2016 01:30 [[Starlight]] wrote: 2) Everyone knows about 'the Eraser', but has anyone seen or done a three- or four-vessel Eraser? Seems like the drones would die super-duper-fast that way, with no chance to get away at all. I've done it in custom-games and it works wonders. You can even kill an ultalisk in seconds with enough stacked vessels. But there are a bunch of obstacles: The main problem is that in a real game you have a limited amount of vessels/irradiates at your disposal and you will need irradiates for defilers, ultras, lurkers. Zerg can evacuate the drones to a nydus, then your irradiates are vasted (except for the lost mining time). Casting them on zerg units is guaranteed damage. Good Zergs will have a bunch of scourges waiting if they see a lot of vessels so the vessels might get sniped. Hunting after drones with vessels requires all your attention for a few moments, and there's a lot of multi-tasking to do in TvZ. You can shift+move the vessels of course, but then the Zerg might dodge. It's also nice to create a spread-out flock of vessels, then it's easier to aim for the pitiful drones even if they dodge. For everyone who doesn't know what the Eraser is: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XzTOJh1.jpg) | ||
|
jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
On July 29 2016 01:30 [[Starlight]] wrote: 1) For gateway-first builds, you're generally supposed to start with 8 pylon/10 gate... but 8 pylon/11 gate is better economically. What's up with that? It doesn't make a difference economically I don't think, you still keep constant probe production and the probe is only off mining for a couple seconds to make the gateway (or you're scouting with that probe anyway) so the only result is a slightly later gateway if you make it on 11. | ||
|
LetaBot
Netherlands557 Posts
| ||
|
Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
On the other hand, You should never be able to beat Protoss going 2 gate with 2 Fac unless Protoss severely cuts production. | ||
|
[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On July 29 2016 04:21 jello_biafra wrote: It doesn't make a difference economically I don't think, you still keep constant probe production and the probe is only off mining for a couple seconds to make the gateway (or you're scouting with that probe anyway) so the only result is a slightly later gateway if you make it on 11. I think that's true if you gate-scout (or later), but not if you pylon-scout. Will have to test it again. | ||
|
[[Starlight]]
United States1578 Posts
On July 29 2016 03:27 Highgamer wrote: I've done it in custom-games and it works wonders. You can even kill an ultalisk in seconds with enough stacked vessels. But there are a bunch of obstacles: The main problem is that in a real game you have a limited amount of vessels/irradiates at your disposal and you will need irradiates for defilers, ultras, lurkers. Zerg can evacuate the drones to a nydus, then your irradiates are vasted (except for the lost mining time). Casting them on zerg units is guaranteed damage. Good Zergs will have a bunch of scourges waiting if they see a lot of vessels so the vessels might get sniped. Hunting after drones with vessels requires all your attention for a few moments, and there's a lot of multi-tasking to do in TvZ. You can shift+move the vessels of course, but then the Zerg might dodge. It's also nice to create a spread-out flock of vessels, then it's easier to aim for the pitiful drones even if they dodge. Nice, well-thought-out answer, props to you. But I was hoping to hear from someone who'd done it in competitive games (or who can point me at a pro-game VOD). | ||
|
LetaBot
Netherlands557 Posts
On July 29 2016 11:20 Cryoc wrote: 2 Gate opening vs Siege Expand is pretty much the best case scenario for Terran, especially if you scout it. Just keep your tanks on the highground except for one, Protoss should never be able to break that and you will have a significant economic advantage going into midgame. On the other hand, You should never be able to beat Protoss going 2 gate with 2 Fac unless Protoss severely cuts production. What about 2 gate zealots though. I always have problems with zealots rush builds, where the zealots will come streaming in after the barracks and CC are lifted to take the natural. | ||
|
jello_biafra
United Kingdom6642 Posts
On July 29 2016 20:09 LetaBot wrote: What about 2 gate zealots though. I always have problems with zealots rush builds, where the zealots will come streaming in after the barracks and CC are lifted to take the natural. If that's happening then just delay lifting the CC out to the natural till you have more tanks, produce a few SCVs from it when it's still in your base, get your second factory up. Then when you do lift it down to the low ground you can usually make some kind of block with the barracks, CC and a depot in between (or in the top right position on FS for example you can make a zealot proof block with just the CC and barracks forcing them to have to go through the mineral line) and use the SCVs to hold if you have to. | ||
|
Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
| ||
|
Highgamer
1470 Posts
On July 30 2016 01:08 Cryoc wrote: Hm, something like that doesn't really happen, so I would probably do the same thing as jello_biafra says. But 2gate zealots will always be scouted, so you can probably just start building a few marines when you see it coming after you started your cc and tank and build a bunker at the low ground at the time your cc finishes to start mining earlier. Not where you dwell probably.... But yes: most importantly, don't panic! don't float the rax away from the wall as long as the zealots are really close (where you can see them from above), use the high-ground-position, build the bunker, run the SCVs if necessary. | ||
|
Rulker
United States1477 Posts
| ||
Kau
Canada3502 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7009 Posts
| ||
|
Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
| ||
|
[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium7009 Posts
| ||
|
Cryoc
Germany912 Posts
| ||
|
LetaBot
Netherlands557 Posts
Otherwise how do you determine the location of where to put your bunker? | ||
|
Probemicro
3708 Posts
On August 01 2016 07:14 LetaBot wrote: If you go 1 rax FE and spot a 4 pool, is it a good idea to place your bunker between your CC and the geyser? Otherwise how do you determine the location of where to put your bunker? put it right underneath the CC, it will cover almost the entire mineral line. i hope AI knows how to pull scv (at the outside edge of the mineral line) inside if they get attack by lings. Unfortunately i have a feeling AI does not know or use the concept of mineral walk to their advantage.. after you get marine out and/or into the bunker, lift your rax and put it right next to the CC. all this while there must be a scouting scv to keep track of what zerg is doing. if zerg is just continuing to pump lings without redroning, instead of 2nd CC you can follow up with 2 rax academy and crush the zerg. | ||
| ||
