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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On February 16 2015 10:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 08:12 Ghostcom wrote:
EDIT: Calling lifelong marriages for the worst lies is probably the biggest bullshit I have yet to see Cosmic write. I'm sorry you have such a bleak outlook on the union of two people who care for each other, but honestly it says more about you than about marriage. Perhaps it was time for some of that self-reflection you so happily recommend others? This may be a big surprise to you, but a lot of couples willingly suffer through terrible marriages for reasons that are perfectly sensible to them. It can be a matter of sunk costs, prioritizing the children over personal feelings, hope that things will simply change without risk, fear over losing their lifestyle, apathy, hatred, etc. These are exacerbated because the relationship is so binding in the first place. There are plenty of happy marriages between well balanced people too. xDaunt was simply being naive in assuming that marriages are the end-all, be-all of relationships. If that was the case, why does couples therapy exist? Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 08:41 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i dont know if cosmic is a shrink or he just thinks he knows a lot about the human mind, but a lot of the stuff he says makes it seem like humans are robots. according to him we pretty much all act in a finite number of ways and there is logic that justifies every action we take. If human beings are robots, we're centuries away from knowing how to manipulate ourselves like them. But we are predictable to a large extent. Unless one believes decisions are generated causa sui from the mind (and no scientific branch has taken that seriously for decades), then we are condemned in act "in a finite number of ways and there is logic that justifies every action we take". And thank god for that. I'd hate to discover that neuroscience and psychology have been running snake oil scams all this time. Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 09:55 evilfatsh1t wrote:
yeah normally all our actions may have logic behind it, but when it comes to emotions logic doesnt apply. i think its pretty well accepted that emotions cause humans to do and react in manners that just logically dont make sense. i dont mean to be sexist here, but women are a perfect example of people who think irrationally and stuff because their emotions get the better of them. also, its probably why love is such a common theme in books, movies etc. The strongest emotion felt by humans makes people act on instinct rather than logic. you can try and justify someones actions when they arent emotionally affected by something, but the moment emotions are involved rational thinking can easily go out the window. this is why i dont agree with so many things cosmic says. this is the dating thread, the people who visit this thread are emotionally high already and trying to analyse and breakdown every action and thought into a logical manner just doesnt work. Men are befuddled when women act "irrationally". Women understand each other when they act "irrationally". Do women possess some magical maternal insight into the void that allows them to do this? Emotions and logic are not contradictory. Logic in itself can't help someone lead a better life without assumptions that lie outside of it. Benatar's antinatalism is perfectly logical and yet only a few people take it seriously. Then what is the point of this thread? Self-congratulatory pats on the back? A sanctuary for people grieving over broken relationships? There are always reasons behind motivations and patterns of behavior. Mere sympathy won't help them recognize what it is and change for the better. Introspection isn't a guarantee of change, but it's better than pretending that everything will be better next time. And it's the only thing you can ask with so little information.
my beef with you is you speak like what you say is the law. you are a god who seems to understand exactly how humans work and how our minds operate. sometimes people who may just come here for a congratulatory pat on the back, or to just get their shit out there without having someone speak in such a condescending tone back to them all the time. i wouldnt be annoyed if you made it clear that your opinion is merely just your opinion. but when you speak as if everything you say is a rule then me and probably a lot of people are going to disagree with you, because there is no rule when it comes to the actions of humans and its time you accepted that (if you already have, then maybe you should show it)
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On February 16 2015 10:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 08:12 Ghostcom wrote:
EDIT: Calling lifelong marriages for the worst lies is probably the biggest bullshit I have yet to see Cosmic write. I'm sorry you have such a bleak outlook on the union of two people who care for each other, but honestly it says more about you than about marriage. Perhaps it was time for some of that self-reflection you so happily recommend others? This may be a big surprise to you, but a lot of couples willingly suffer through terrible marriages for reasons that are perfectly sensible to them. It can be a matter of sunk costs, prioritizing the children over personal feelings, hope that things will simply change without risk, fear over losing their lifestyle, apathy, hatred, etc. These are exacerbated because the relationship is so binding in the first place. There are plenty of happy marriages between well balanced people too. xDaunt was simply being naive in assuming that marriages are the end-all, be-all of relationships. If that was the case, why does couples therapy exist?
No, that was not a surprise to me and neither was the wording of your answer. I'm still calling bullshit on your prior statement that:
On February 14 2015 07:05 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2015 01:46 xDaunt wrote:
In SixStrings' defense, isn't he the one being a bit of a realist? Dating is often a nasty, dishonest business where every relationship ends badly (to one degree or another) except the one that ends in a lifetime of marriage. Lifetime marriages are often the nastiest, most dishonest relationships of all.
In fact I'll counter you by stating that lifetime marriages are often the most rewarding, honest, and positive relationships of all and to prove it we only need to glance at mortality rates for the married vs single...
There are 7 billion people out there - I dare say that we have no clue how the vast majority of their relationships are.
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Some people are uncomfortable with the idea that humans can act without reason, so they make vague gesticulations towards either their personal experiences with others or very cursory psychological/neuro scientific generalizations when faced with difficult to pin down existential phenomena. This idea that everything, even something as nebulous as the human psyche, can be explained rationally is a convenient placeholder for the disconcerting truth that sometimes, the things that humans say, do or think and the words we use to describe them just don't get along so well. That there are billions of different people on this planet just adds to the differentiation and complexity of human interaction.
The translational issues that arise between men and women are merely a bright line, traditional engagement with the idea that humans generally oftentimes have trouble turning what they think, be it consciously or subconsciously, into words that properly communicate the accompanying thought. Sure, one can point to the brain, describe some neurotransmitters, wave towards Freud, and posit a general trend in how human interaction tends to go, but that whole process doesn't mean shit when a cerebral, hard-minded man has trouble understanding what the object of his affections must be thinking with having not replied to that charming message he sent her an hour ago.
This is why nerve, a touch of impulse, and a baseline comfort with one's place in the world will be a helluva lot more helpful in establishing better relationships with others than broad vagaries of gender specific advice. People are weird, they can surprise you, and they can do things that make no sense. Accordingly, letting go and joining in with the senselessness can sometimes turn out pretty great.
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Northern Ireland23353 Posts
Define 'often'? They can be for sure, I think part of my problem is being straightjacketed to the view that monogamous marriage is the de facto state of being for people. Literally my entire family, both sides are all either married for longer than I've been alive, or are engaged in long-term partnerships to the same degree. Naturally my single parent status has proven difficult to reconcile with the entirety of my adult role models being able to keep things working and functional.
I know it's societally an atypical state of affairs, but such is my upbringing, so I think it's held me back a lot with the whole disastrous breakdown with my ex. I've never really had the energy to write a rant blog but really she's been a total cunt to me for at least the last year.
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On February 16 2015 12:04 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2015 07:05 CosmicSpiral wrote:On February 14 2015 01:46 xDaunt wrote:
In SixStrings' defense, isn't he the one being a bit of a realist? Dating is often a nasty, dishonest business where every relationship ends badly (to one degree or another) except the one that ends in a lifetime of marriage. Lifetime marriages are often the nastiest, most dishonest relationships of all. In fact I'll counter you by stating that lifetime marriages are often the most rewarding, honest, and positive relationships of all and to prove it we only need to glance at mortality rates for the married vs single... There are 7 billion people out there - I dare say that we have no clue how the vast majority of their relationships are.
Given that relationship stats are extensible(which is not a baseless assumption) we would be able to survey a small subset of relationships and extrapolate from that. The more relationships that are surveyed, the stronger the extrapolation becomes. So we can get a clue of what the relationships are like out there. Obviously you would need to redo this based upon circumstances such as culture, family, money, etc. but you potentially could form solid conclusions from a survey like this.
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This is why nerve, a touch of impulse, and a baseline comfort with one's place in the world will be a helluva lot more helpful in establishing better relationships with others than broad vagaries of gender specific advice. People are weird, they can surprise you, and they can do things that make no sense. Letting go and joining in with senselessness can sometimes turn out pretty great.
And those that are not wired that way (to let go and join the senselessness) will be left behind.
Its hard to deliberate a path to reconcile the perceived image of self, and the perceived image of society. From my own experience my lack of comfort with my place in the world is the biggest hindrance to a stable relationship with a person of my affection. But that comfort can not be forced or generated, it has to evolve, and the parameters for that evolution are in the hands of society at large at least as much as your own.
Maybe its weird that i read this forum for years now and this post by you finally made me register to react. (One can chalk it up to procastination perhaps) But i guess the issue encountered by SixStrings reminded me of some of my own and with the following understanding posts by GreenHorizons, that hit close to things i have heard before, and even said before to others, seem to be utterly futile because of inelasticity of the human mind. We see the trouble but can't change ourselfs.
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On February 16 2015 12:31 puerk wrote:Show nested quote +This is why nerve, a touch of impulse, and a baseline comfort with one's place in the world will be a helluva lot more helpful in establishing better relationships with others than broad vagaries of gender specific advice. People are weird, they can surprise you, and they can do things that make no sense. Letting go and joining in with senselessness can sometimes turn out pretty great. And those that are not wired that way (to let go and join the senselessness) will be left behind. Its hard to deliberate a path to reconcile the perceived image of self, and the perceived image of society. From my own experience my lack of comfort with my place in the world is the biggest hindrance to a stable relationship with a person of my affection. But that comfort can not be forced or generated, it has to evolve, and the parameters for that evolution are in the hands of society at large at least as much as your own. Maybe its weird that i read this forum for years now and this post by you finally made me register to react. (One can chalk it up to procastination perhaps) But i guess the issue encountered by SixStrings reminded me of some of my own and with the following understanding posts by GreenHorizons, that hit close to things i have heard before, and even said before to others, seem to be utterly futile because of inelasticity of the human mind. We see the trouble but can't change ourselfs.
I will simply stress my words "can sometimes," some people in this world clearly need to take a step back and let sense reign or work on alternative "strategies," if you will. My hunch is that dudes posting on TL's dating thread tend to not be those sorts of people 
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Northern Ireland23353 Posts
Hey Farv I'm totally that kind of person, I object to this 
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I can't shake the feeling that there is one negation to much in your post.
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Northern Ireland23353 Posts
On February 14 2015 17:14 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2015 10:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
Super fucking annoyed lol. My life is generally pretty shitty and I met someone who was a real ray of light in an otherwise barely tolerable existence.
Only issue is she's not an EU citizen and visa issues are rearing their head. There is fuck all I can do which only adds to my annoyance. Worst part is regardless of my feelings for her she's driven as fuck and just wants to work, she's very competent at a variety of things and she's essentially having to go to 'study' English just to stay in the country on a student visa.
It's proving a fucking strain atm, I wouldn't care particularly if it was some casual thing but she's one of the loveliest people I've ever met, is good with my son, plays games with me and likes the same films, plus is really hot.
Anyone know any good visa workarounds? :p
Well Marriage is one solution? Not sure how long are you together tho. Btw is she like way more driven than you are? That could cause some issues down the line no? And going to the gym and becoming more focused on a career for the sake of the girl not because you actually want to from within is hardly a good plan I believe
I've gradually become more focused over the last year. Essentially I got fucked over by my ex, gave a lot of my holidays over to helping her out when it turned out she had a serious BF in the background.
However not all is bad, doing Computer Science next year so hopefully something comes from that. Also my current gf is unbelievable, she likes games, she sing and plays piano (I record my own music so we do that sometimes), she's attractive as fuck and she's not so much tolerant of me having a kid as actively interested in him and seeing him. it makes the aforementioned visa issues that much more irritating!
Also as an aside I think SixStrings gets a raw deal here. Guy is honest with his life and his issues and is made to look a scumbag sometimes and I really don't feel he is one.
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On February 16 2015 12:54 puerk wrote:
I can't shake the feeling that there is one negation to much in your post.
There's no doubt multiple "negations" to what I think. I'm currently single
On February 16 2015 12:40 Wombat_NI wrote:Hey Farv I'm totally that kind of person, I object to this
And how dare you, Wombat!
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On February 16 2015 10:41 CosmicSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 08:12 Ghostcom wrote:
EDIT: Calling lifelong marriages for the worst lies is probably the biggest bullshit I have yet to see Cosmic write. I'm sorry you have such a bleak outlook on the union of two people who care for each other, but honestly it says more about you than about marriage. Perhaps it was time for some of that self-reflection you so happily recommend others? This may be a big surprise to you, but a lot of couples willingly suffer through terrible marriages for reasons that are perfectly sensible to them. It can be a matter of sunk costs, prioritizing the children over personal feelings, hope that things will simply change without risk, fear over losing their lifestyle, apathy, hatred, etc. These are exacerbated because the relationship is so binding in the first place. There are plenty of happy marriages between well balanced people too. xDaunt was simply being naive in assuming that marriages are the end-all, be-all of relationships. If that was the case, why does couples therapy exist?
I think you're reading a little bit too much into my poor word choice. Instead of saying "lifelong marriage," I should have said "lifelong happy marriage." It doesn't really change my point that every relationship ends badly except for the lucky ones that end in a lifetime of bliss.
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Also as an aside I think SixStrings gets a raw deal here. Guy is honest with his life and his issues and is made to look a scumbag sometimes and I really don't feel he is one.
I guess there is a tendency to overinterpret the motives to post in this forum by some people. Furthermore i guess he considers himself (on some level) part of this community and therefore shares his thoughts and experiences.
If one doesn't see or accept this motive for posting, it can come of as a flipflopping between bragging and whining, which would be amplified by the fact that those glimpses into his life are determined by his mood to post in the first place (so something shareworthy/troubling/interesting happened). The result is an alienation (don't really know his feelings and motivations, or show a quality effort to understand them) and taking of a judgmental position (as they nonetheless consider themself neutral observers).
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On February 16 2015 12:13 Wombat_NI wrote:
Define 'often'? They can be for sure, I think part of my problem is being straightjacketed to the view that monogamous marriage is the de facto state of being for people. Literally my entire family, both sides are all either married for longer than I've been alive, or are engaged in long-term partnerships to the same degree. Naturally my single parent status has proven difficult to reconcile with the entirety of my adult role models being able to keep things working and functional.
I know it's societally an atypical state of affairs, but such is my upbringing, so I think it's held me back a lot with the whole disastrous breakdown with my ex. I've never really had the energy to write a rant blog but really she's been a total cunt to me for at least the last year.
I don't know what your circumstances are with your ex, but definitely don't feel like this is a "problem." You just need to find the right partner. Marriage isn't easy to get right, but if you do, it is great.
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On February 16 2015 13:19 puerk wrote:Show nested quote +Also as an aside I think SixStrings gets a raw deal here. Guy is honest with his life and his issues and is made to look a scumbag sometimes and I really don't feel he is one. I guess there is a tendency to overinterpret the motives to post in this forum by some people. Furthermore i guess he considers himself (on some level) part of this community and therefore shares his thoughts and experiences. If one doesn't see or accept this motive for posting, it can come of as a flipflopping between bragging and whining, which would be amplified by the fact that those glimpses into his life are determined by his mood to post in the first place (so something shareworthy/troubling/interesting happened). The result is an alienation (don't really know his feelings and motivations, or show a quality effort to understand them) and taking of a judgmental position (as they nonetheless consider themself neutral observers).
When I basically called out SS, I made it clear that I can't really speak on how men interact with women in Germany; it's very possible that literally none of my experiences line up with SS's social environment.
I will say, though, that in my going on 8 years of life among university crowds, men who talk about their exploits with women as SS does are incredibly common, prone to extreme emotional immaturity that begets lying, braggary, and the objectification of others, and I will fully admit that I heavily detect those elements in SS's posting. We call it "compensating for something." I don't think he's being honest about much, to put it plainly.
Nobody is "neutral" anyways.
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Its not an issue of treating "women in Germany", or at least i wouldn't want to make it one, social decency between humans is quite universal (golden rule-ish/kategorial imperative). But how is a confrontational approach ever going to improve life for him and his social contacts?
Regarding the meat of the accusations: i have not seen him lying, and i wouldn't consider it fair to bring that into the mix here. I am only interested in: is there a path to change that is workable without outside forcing, and desireable from within. Maybe there is, but from my experience the default answer should be no.
So treating his posting as bragging about exploits seems to me to only fulfill one purpose: moral self-gratification.
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And you're taking the time to cook up plausible defenses for SS ends up being an exercise for the benefit of your own moral gratification; this is inevitable in a dating advice thread. You don't think he's lying about how women seem to fuck him at the flip of a coin, and that he lives this weird German version of Sex and the City with all the roles reversed. I do. That's all there is to it at the end of the day.
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For me the decisive part of lying is motive of deception. Why assume deception where understanding others, empathy and placeing oneself into society are more encompassing issues able to explain it?
And about my moral gratification: that is neither attempted nor achived, so i want to apologize for my harsh words. I hoped "seems to me" was enough a qualifier.
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Whenever I see there suddenly are 20+ new posts in the dating thread I know that you bunch of beautiful idiots have found some minor issue to get your debating fix over.
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On February 16 2015 15:05 B.I.G. wrote:
Whenever I see there suddenly are 20+ new posts in the dating thread I know that you bunch of beautiful idiots have found some minor issue to get your debating fix over.
I think that's exactly what it is. I keep resisting to the temptation to join in and throw some opinion in there just for the sake of it.
Edit: Not saying it's a bad thing, I actually really enjoy reading this.
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EPT
