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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
This thread will not get posts for a week, and then 30 in 2 hours.
However, I love some of the debating that gets started here. There's always a lot to learn. I'll throw in with farvacola and say that a lot of the times, SS is just trying to brag on here about how he gets laid, and that it's likely either made up or heavily exaggerated. However, since this gets him nothing in real life, and impacts me little other than clogging up the thread, it doesn't bother me much.
I assume deception because the motive for his deception is stronger than the alternative. If he was not getting it, or not on the degree he states, then the posts would make him feel better about his position, even if made up. However, if he really were getting it, then he wouldn't be posting like he is, because he'd have that satisfaction already.
Lastly, we all get some sort of gratification from posting here. Intellectual, social or moral, but it's gratification nonetheless. Kant says that the three categories of good deeds, in descending order of morality, are deeds done from duty, deeds done to achieve a good feeling, and deeds done in order to receive a good deed in return. We all likely fall in those last 2 categories.
P.S: What is the stated purpose of this thread, anyway? It's just about general dating, correct? So it doesn't matter if we get somewhat distracted by debating, as long as it's related to that.
Also, Wombat your lady friend is smoking, and you look good as well.
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However, if he really were getting it, then he wouldn't be posting like he is, because he'd have that satisfaction already.
"[T]hat satisfaction" can feel very hollow, especially when motives, arrangements and social live are not in 'order'.
For me communicating about stuff that happend, but only gave short hollow satisfaction, to give it additional meaning and context sounds like a more realistic interpretation than him plainly making shit up.
But i should stop arguing (on his behalf?).. i actually lost track of why i moved into that line of thought in the first place.
I guess farvs point was that general character development is more important than direct situational advice, which defied the mod warning header, and i jumped at it.
So please get back to dating advice and dating stories, and i will retreat to the datelessness 
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On February 16 2015 09:55 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 09:26 Yoz wrote:On February 16 2015 08:41 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i dont know if cosmic is a shrink or he just thinks he knows a lot about the human mind, but a lot of the stuff he says makes it seem like humans are robots. according to him we pretty much all act in a finite number of ways and there is logic that justifies every action we take. I kinda believe that every human action (save for those with mental illnesses) is deliberate and justified from the person's perspective at some level. It might not even be obvious to the person making the decision or taking the action but I don't think humans do things randomly or 'just because' - there is usually some underlying motivation. I suppose you could view humans as being really inefficient and inaccurate robots though =P yeah normally all our actions may have logic behind it, but when it comes to emotions logic doesnt apply. i think its pretty well accepted that emotions cause humans to do and react in manners that just logically dont make sense. i dont mean to be sexist here, but women are a perfect example of people who think irrationally and stuff because their emotions get the better of them.
If testosterone is any judgement then men are just as or even more prone to emotional behavior. Subtlety sexist people like you often forget this detail.
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On February 16 2015 18:14 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 09:55 evilfatsh1t wrote:On February 16 2015 09:26 Yoz wrote:On February 16 2015 08:41 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i dont know if cosmic is a shrink or he just thinks he knows a lot about the human mind, but a lot of the stuff he says makes it seem like humans are robots. according to him we pretty much all act in a finite number of ways and there is logic that justifies every action we take. I kinda believe that every human action (save for those with mental illnesses) is deliberate and justified from the person's perspective at some level. It might not even be obvious to the person making the decision or taking the action but I don't think humans do things randomly or 'just because' - there is usually some underlying motivation. I suppose you could view humans as being really inefficient and inaccurate robots though =P yeah normally all our actions may have logic behind it, but when it comes to emotions logic doesnt apply. i think its pretty well accepted that emotions cause humans to do and react in manners that just logically dont make sense. i dont mean to be sexist here, but women are a perfect example of people who think irrationally and stuff because their emotions get the better of them. If testosterone is any judgement then men are just as or even more prone to emotional behavior. Subtlety sexist people like you often forget this detail.
lol ok bro you think that
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On February 16 2015 18:50 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 18:14 DemigodcelpH wrote:On February 16 2015 09:55 evilfatsh1t wrote:On February 16 2015 09:26 Yoz wrote:On February 16 2015 08:41 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i dont know if cosmic is a shrink or he just thinks he knows a lot about the human mind, but a lot of the stuff he says makes it seem like humans are robots. according to him we pretty much all act in a finite number of ways and there is logic that justifies every action we take. I kinda believe that every human action (save for those with mental illnesses) is deliberate and justified from the person's perspective at some level. It might not even be obvious to the person making the decision or taking the action but I don't think humans do things randomly or 'just because' - there is usually some underlying motivation. I suppose you could view humans as being really inefficient and inaccurate robots though =P yeah normally all our actions may have logic behind it, but when it comes to emotions logic doesnt apply. i think its pretty well accepted that emotions cause humans to do and react in manners that just logically dont make sense. i dont mean to be sexist here, but women are a perfect example of people who think irrationally and stuff because their emotions get the better of them. If testosterone is any judgement then men are just as or even more prone to emotional behavior. Subtlety sexist people like you often forget this detail. lol ok bro you think that
I think that too.
If you want to read it up, just google "irritable male syndrome" for example, but there it much more to be found
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On February 16 2015 18:50 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 18:14 DemigodcelpH wrote:On February 16 2015 09:55 evilfatsh1t wrote:On February 16 2015 09:26 Yoz wrote:On February 16 2015 08:41 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i dont know if cosmic is a shrink or he just thinks he knows a lot about the human mind, but a lot of the stuff he says makes it seem like humans are robots. according to him we pretty much all act in a finite number of ways and there is logic that justifies every action we take. I kinda believe that every human action (save for those with mental illnesses) is deliberate and justified from the person's perspective at some level. It might not even be obvious to the person making the decision or taking the action but I don't think humans do things randomly or 'just because' - there is usually some underlying motivation. I suppose you could view humans as being really inefficient and inaccurate robots though =P yeah normally all our actions may have logic behind it, but when it comes to emotions logic doesnt apply. i think its pretty well accepted that emotions cause humans to do and react in manners that just logically dont make sense. i dont mean to be sexist here, but women are a perfect example of people who think irrationally and stuff because their emotions get the better of them. If testosterone is any judgement then men are just as or even more prone to emotional behavior. Subtlety sexist people like you often forget this detail. lol ok bro you think that
Yes it is, if a man doesn't have sex, with either himself or with a girl for X period of time (it varies from man to man, but from experience it's <1week), we will think/act/react differently on many types of situations.
From being agitated early to being horny as fuck all day long, if we don't release our juice in someway or another, our mind gets affected. The same is for woman in a slightly different way..
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i initially didnt want to reply at risk of being just outright labelled as a sexist or something, but if you guys honestly think that generally speaking men are considered to be more emotional than females, then you and i must live in totally different worlds. im not saying men cant be affected by hormones or other factors, but its pretty widely accepted that women are more emotionally turbulent. pms jokes, emotional jokes and all the other stereotypes didnt come out of nowhere. theyre stereotypes for a reason
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We're never not rational. We always have reasons for what we do, even if in retrospect we think what we did made no sense.
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Northern Ireland26340 Posts
On February 16 2015 13:24 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 12:13 Wombat_NI wrote:
Define 'often'? They can be for sure, I think part of my problem is being straightjacketed to the view that monogamous marriage is the de facto state of being for people. Literally my entire family, both sides are all either married for longer than I've been alive, or are engaged in long-term partnerships to the same degree. Naturally my single parent status has proven difficult to reconcile with the entirety of my adult role models being able to keep things working and functional.
I know it's societally an atypical state of affairs, but such is my upbringing, so I think it's held me back a lot with the whole disastrous breakdown with my ex. I've never really had the energy to write a rant blog but really she's been a total cunt to me for at least the last year. I don't know what your circumstances are with your ex, but definitely don't feel like this is a "problem." You just need to find the right partner. Marriage isn't easy to get right, but if you do, it is great.
It's more that single parenthood and all the difficulties I've had with it, I am the first dad in my peer group, and all my family are happily married so I have no real sounding boards in terms of advice with my situation outside of the internet.
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On February 16 2015 20:16 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i initially didnt want to reply at risk of being just outright labelled as a sexist or something, but if you guys honestly think that generally speaking men are considered to be more emotional than females, then you and i must live in totally different worlds. im not saying men cant be affected by hormones or other factors, but its pretty widely accepted that women are more emotionally turbulent. pms jokes, emotional jokes and all the other stereotypes didnt come out of nowhere. theyre stereotypes for a reason
Yes, while I do agree that women in general are more vulnerable to these types of thinking, the way you said "women are a perfect example of people who think irrationally and stuff because their emotions get the better of them." is generalizing in the same way as Muslims get generalized as extremists (not trying to start a whole different chapter of discussion here, just an example).
I know guys who are just as emotionally unstable as alot of women, and I know girls who'm are far more stable than most men I know. Stereotypes will forever be stereotypes, and 80% of the time it is true, however you just can't generalize things that easy.
I've got alot of very close female friends and eventhough sometimes I will just tell them ; 'that's really a girlway of thinking', alot of the times their thought pattern isn't as different as we think they are, yet we interpretate them very differently.
We're a bit derailing from the original topic though 
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On February 16 2015 09:55 evilfatsh1t wrote:
yeah normally all our actions may have logic behind it, but when it comes to emotions logic doesnt apply. i think its pretty well accepted that emotions cause humans to do and react in manners that just logically dont make sense. i dont mean to be sexist here, but women are a perfect example of people who think irrationally and stuff because their emotions get the better of them. also, its probably why love is such a common theme in books, movies etc. The strongest emotion felt by humans makes people act on instinct rather than logic. you can try and justify someones actions when they arent emotionally affected by something, but the moment emotions are involved rational thinking can easily go out the window. this is why i dont agree with so many things cosmic says. this is the dating thread, the people who visit this thread are emotionally high already and trying to analyse and breakdown every action and thought into a logical manner just doesnt work.
Are you suggesting that an overly emotional person works in a completely random way?
You view it as being irrational (without logic) and I view it as changing the decision making tree which might completely change the outcome - but it's still somewhat rational on an emotional level. It sounds ridiculous saying something can be rational on an emotional level - but my point is essentially that they still act along a logical path but the emotion alters their decision making.
An example would be a young adult spending half their life savings travelling around the world to meet a girl they're totally infatuated with. Under normal 'rational' circumstances they might recognise that spending half their life savings to meet a person isn't worth it. However, I still don't see this circumstance as being irrational. It's just the young adult deciding that love is more important than money and taking the shot.
It's just emotion changing the rules and moving the goal posts of decision making? Still somewhat rational to me.
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On February 16 2015 21:40 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 13:24 xDaunt wrote:On February 16 2015 12:13 Wombat_NI wrote:
Define 'often'? They can be for sure, I think part of my problem is being straightjacketed to the view that monogamous marriage is the de facto state of being for people. Literally my entire family, both sides are all either married for longer than I've been alive, or are engaged in long-term partnerships to the same degree. Naturally my single parent status has proven difficult to reconcile with the entirety of my adult role models being able to keep things working and functional.
I know it's societally an atypical state of affairs, but such is my upbringing, so I think it's held me back a lot with the whole disastrous breakdown with my ex. I've never really had the energy to write a rant blog but really she's been a total cunt to me for at least the last year. I don't know what your circumstances are with your ex, but definitely don't feel like this is a "problem." You just need to find the right partner. Marriage isn't easy to get right, but if you do, it is great. It's more that single parenthood and all the difficulties I've had with it, I am the first dad in my peer group, and all my family are happily married so I have no real sounding boards in terms of advice with my situation outside of the internet.
Yeah, single parenting is rough. I'm married with two small children, but I have had the "opportunity" to take care of them on my own when my wife has gone out of town on business. Definitely no cake walk.
As for getting advice on your situation, I'd suggest that there isn't too much that you need. Parenting is just something that parents have to figure out largely on their own. Presuming that you had competent parents of your own or know people who have been good parents, you already have a model for how to do it. The catch is that you just have to work harder at it because you're on your own. What you really need is to have a support network in place (ie grandparents, uncles, aunts, etc) who can help you out with watching your kid so that you can still have at least a semblance of a social life and maintain your sanity.
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On February 16 2015 15:59 puerk wrote:So please get back to dating advice and dating stories, and i will retreat to the datelessness
We need more positive dating advice and stories. Instead of all this woe is me stuff. And all the, "I got laid today woe is me" stuff from SS?
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More of a rant than anyhting else, but I came to the sad realization that a relationship isnt likely to happen. The problems are:
I dont have any dating method, and never felt comfortable with dating as it sole purpose. All my relationships so far started with just being friends, getting to know each other and then getting somehow into a relationship. I seem unable to even become interested in a girl without getting to know her a little bit better first.
I am not likely to meet and get to know a lot of women. I study computer science and there are effectively no women. I also have a pretty bad distribution of hobbys. Either they are a) not very social, like reading and thinking about stuff. b) social, but less likely to be shared by women, like gaming (with going to LANs etc.), other nerdy stuff or heavy martial arts (the type where you actually learn stuff and dont just pretend while doing sports). I am not the person that goes out a lot/goes to partys, I prefer meating friends at my/their places. Also, I find common interests/hobbies key for an succesfull relationship, since you need something that you can do together, so having mostly hibbies with a very low female % doesnt help.
I have a very good sense of humor and genuinely make people laugh, but I also have a very twisted one. Also, I sometimes enjoy being an real annoyance. I make fun of everything and everyone including me, but occasionally cross a line while doing so. Since I dont mind when someone makes fun of me/dont mind words in general, I wont notice when I am about to cross a line. I am really clumsy when it comes to that. I can be quite charmant and I am very good with words in general, but most of the time I choose to use that talent to be a jester/jerk.
I dont dress age-appropriate. I like my clothes, but you propably wont while at same time they are not niche enough to interest niche people. I dont like the stuff most people wear, besides nice suits/the according shirts which are impractical for general wear and I am to cheap to change my wardrobe so I could wear that stuff all the time and to lazy for the ironing.
My qualities mainly shine through when you get to know me. Before that I propably seem like a loser/very uninteresting type of guy. My friends would strongly disagree on this one, but they know me. Also, if morals, ethics and general behaviour isnt that important to you, a lot of my qualities are down the drain and a lot of my beliefs are outdated.
It is very easy to get a wrong impression of me, one that propably puts you off or even frightens you. There are a few storys about me that almost always get told out of context/missing crucial information and therefore delivering a completely different message. Also, theese storys seem to find their way. I moved, switched subjects and university and am now almost 100km away from where I lived before, still those storys are known in the universitygroups I am in.
For most people, it is not very funny to discuss something with me. My respones will be fast and backed up with a lot of proof/logic. For some reason, you will be angry, I wont notice it and keep on, making you more angry. When I finally notice, it will be weird and we will all feel uncomfortable. On the next day you will propably tell me that I was right and that you dont know why it made you so angry in that situation. Especially females are prone to this and I still dont know what I am doing wrong to get you angry in the first place. Also, I really like to discuss stuff and dont mind being wrong but still, most people dont enjoy discussing with me, at least when it comes to questions where there is an absolute right/wrong.
Stupid thing is that I really would like being in a relationship again. Being in a long-term relationship was great (until it broke down and I had to realize that I got cheated on of course, but until then and the years before where awesome) and I really miss the feelings I got from it. Knowing that I am very good in being a good partner since it blends well with a lot of my core values doesnt help either.
TLDR:
1) I dont have a dating-technique, I dont want to get one.
2) I am not in a situation where I meet a lot of women/appeal to them and dont really want to change it.
3) Since I miss a dating-technique, I can only hope for them approaching and pursuing me, which is unlikely because of 2)
4) I therefore should accept that a relationship is very unlikely to happen.
5) I came to the realization that I really want a relationship to happen again.
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On February 14 2015 17:14 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2015 10:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
Super fucking annoyed lol. My life is generally pretty shitty and I met someone who was a real ray of light in an otherwise barely tolerable existence.
Only issue is she's not an EU citizen and visa issues are rearing their head. There is fuck all I can do which only adds to my annoyance. Worst part is regardless of my feelings for her she's driven as fuck and just wants to work, she's very competent at a variety of things and she's essentially having to go to 'study' English just to stay in the country on a student visa.
It's proving a fucking strain atm, I wouldn't care particularly if it was some casual thing but she's one of the loveliest people I've ever met, is good with my son, plays games with me and likes the same films, plus is really hot.
Anyone know any good visa workarounds? :p
And going to the gym and becoming more focused on a career for the sake of the girl not because you actually want to from within is hardly a good plan I believe
you missed the point m8
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On February 17 2015 01:59 waffelz wrote:
TLDR:
1) I dont have a dating-technique, I dont want to get one.
2) I am not in a situation where I meet a lot of women/appeal to them and dont really want to change it.
3) Since I miss a dating-technique, I can only hope for them approaching and pursuing me, which is unlikely because of 2)
4) I therefore should accept that a relationship is very unlikely to happen.
5) I came to the realization that I really want a relationship to happen again.
I'll just hazard a guess that a lot of TL members (yours truly included) have been where you are now. I highlighted the three most important things that you said. Basically, you recognize that you want a relationship, but you're currently unwilling to do what is necessary to put yourself in a position where you're likely to get one. When that changes, then things will start to fall into place. Don't get me wrong: I'm a huge advocate of the proposition that people shouldn't change themselves to accommodate their relationships because they'll just be unhappy in the long run. However, you at least have to be willing to put yourself out there and otherwise "market" yourself effectively.
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On February 17 2015 01:59 waffelz wrote:
TLDR:
1) I dont have a dating-technique, I dont want to get one.
2) I am not in a situation where I meet a lot of women/appeal to them and dont really want to change it.
3) Since I miss a dating-technique, I can only hope for them approaching and pursuing me, which is unlikely because of 2)
4) I therefore should accept that a relationship is very unlikely to happen.
5) I came to the realization that I really want a relationship to happen again.
You don't want to date. You don't want to learn to date. You don't want to develop new hobbies. You don't want to meet girls. You don't want to change your dress sense. You don't want to learn to adapt to social situations.
If you don't mind me asking why are you so averse to change if you recognise it's going to help you attain your goal of a relationship more easily?
Just from an outsider's perspective I would question if you really want a relationship or whether you would rather rant about why life is so hard. It also sounds like your mentality is going to make a relationship extremely difficult because you seem entirely unwilling to compromise on anything - and relationships usually include some element of compromise.
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On February 17 2015 02:17 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 01:59 waffelz wrote:
TLDR:
1) I dont have a dating-technique, I dont want to get one.
2) I am not in a situation where I meet a lot of women/appeal to them and dont really want to change it.
3) Since I miss a dating-technique, I can only hope for them approaching and pursuing me, which is unlikely because of 2)
4) I therefore should accept that a relationship is very unlikely to happen.
5) I came to the realization that I really want a relationship to happen again. I'll just hazard a guess that a lot of TL members (yours truly included) have been where you are now. I highlighted the three most important things that you said. Basically, you recognize that you want a relationship, but you're currently unwilling to do what is necessary to put yourself in a position where you're likely to get one. When that changes, then things will start to fall into place. Don't get me wrong: I'm a huge advocate of the proposition that people shouldn't change themselves to accommodate their relationships because they'll just be unhappy in the long run. However, you at least have to be willing to put yourself out there and otherwise "market" yourself effectively.
Dont worry, I know that you are perfectly right. If you want something, you have to work for it in some way. My problem with 1) is that I tried, but I am genuinely unable to have feelings for a girl without getting to know her better. I think it ties into me highly focussing on character and personality. So lets rephrase "I dont want to get one" to "I seem unable to get one that works out for me".
Problem with 2) is that I could only really change my appearance, which sounds easier than it is for me, since I just dont have any connection to the usual fashion. Maybe if I get desperate enough .
Just picking a new hobbie isnt that easy, since It should be something that suits you and isnt just a mean to get girls and so far I havent had success with finding a new one that fits that criteria.
Until something of the above changes, I will try to work on 5).
And yes Yoz, as I stated it is more of a rant than anything else. I know that I could change stuff to increase my chances, but dont feel like it/feel like being unable to do so without just "acting".
EDIT: at least I can reject the assumption that I am unable to compromise, thats something that I often do to much.
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Sounds like you just need more reps on the dating game. I know this isn't for everyone, but for those that have the balls to do it, getting into some kind of university campus ballroom/couples dancing club (salsa, swing, etc .. but NOT tango) is the absolute best thing you can do to go meet a lot of girls outside your regular circles and get comfortable interacting with them. For the most inept of us, it will take about 6 months or so to get acclimated and see some progress, but it will happen.
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On February 17 2015 03:42 xDaunt wrote:
Sounds like you just need more reps on the dating game. I know this isn't for everyone, but for those that have the balls to do it, getting into some kind of university campus ballroom/couples dancing club (salsa, swing, etc .. but NOT tango) is the absolute best thing you can do to go meet a lot of girls outside your regular circles and get comfortable interacting with them. For the most inept of us, it will take about 6 months or so to get acclimated and see some progress, but it will happen.
Lindy Hop/Swing really works very well. (went there with a partner, but there were like 30 solo women from my university)
The good thing about lindy ist that you change partners a lot (50% your partner, 50% others for example), so you could get to know a lot of girls in a very short amount of time. :D
Another alternative: (and less commitment) are hiking groups. All you have to do is walk, and you have a lot of time to talk to all the people there. I met my girlfriend an my ex there (unplanned, im big into outdoorstuff anyways. but still).
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EPT
