EPTShots fired at Charlie Hebdo offices - France - Page 31
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Read this before posting. Stay civil. As the news continues to develop, please remember no NSFW images or video. Thank you. | ||
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Ishentar
France122 Posts
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
On January 08 2015 05:52 WhiteDog wrote: You think some guys who tried to go to syria would have had a permit and the legal right to buy a semi automatic firearm in France ? I believe it's possible. Political correctness in the western world has gone nuts and maybe if they refused such request they would be labelled as racists, islamophobes, etc etc... | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2015/01/07/le-siege-de-charlie-hebo-vise-par-des-tirs_1175326?refresh=722731 | ||
zatic
Zurich15306 Posts
On January 08 2015 05:52 WhiteDog wrote: You think some guys who tried to go to syria would have had a permit and the legal right to buy a semi automatic firearm in France ? I don't know that. I was mostly replying to the Bloomberg article 2 pages back which claimed that auto and semi-auto rifles are banned in France. Which is patently false, as France is one of the countries where semi-auto rifles are easiest to get in Europe. Anecdotal evidence: Many recreational shooters I know (and myself) regularly go to France for shooting because guns like any AK variant are readily accessible there, while they are banned in Germany. | ||
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Faefae
2202 Posts
On January 08 2015 05:56 Grettin wrote: So Libération is saying the suspects were arrested? http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2015/01/07/le-siege-de-charlie-hebo-vise-par-des-tirs_1175326?refresh=722731 "might have been arrested" | ||
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
On January 08 2015 05:56 Grettin wrote: So Libération is saying the suspects were arrested? http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2015/01/07/le-siege-de-charlie-hebo-vise-par-des-tirs_1175326?refresh=722731 The Ministry of the Interior denied the information. | ||
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Grettin
42381 Posts
Ah, i wish i knew French -- Or that Google Translate would be more accurate.. | ||
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
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Ishentar
France122 Posts
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On January 08 2015 05:57 zatic wrote: I don't know that. I was mostly replying to the Bloomberg article 2 pages back which claimed that auto and semi-auto rifles are banned in France. Which is patently false, as France is one of the countries where semi-auto rifles are easiest to get in Europe. Anecdotal evidence: Many recreational shooters I know (and myself) regularly go to France for shooting because guns like any AK variant are readily accessible there, while they are banned in Germany. They're limited to 3-round magazines, are they not? | ||
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r00ty
Germany1022 Posts
On January 08 2015 05:56 Ishentar wrote: @zatic : Well I've seen on french news websites photos of ammunition and loaded magazines. I think it doesn't look like hunting caliber which is the only one legally available, i'll PM you if I find them. There's just marginal differences between the military and civil variants. E.g. .223 Remington (civil) and 5.56mm NATO. Pic: + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Ishentar
France122 Posts
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zatic
Zurich15306 Posts
On January 08 2015 06:00 Millitron wrote: They're limited to 3-round magazines, are they not? Nope. In Germany there is an absolute limit to 5 round magazines, in France there is not. If I follow that article WhiteDog posted correctly more than three round simple means you need a license, but you need that anyway with any rifle. Alright, I have watched that video. There is no automatic or burst fire, it's all semi-auto. Those guns are legally available in France for anyone with a sports shooting license. If you don't believe me go to the shooting club in your town and ask to watch people fire semi-auto rifles. Now I realize those guys probably didn't have a license (well, maybe they did). Fact is those guns are not that hard to acquire. I have fired pretty much the exact same gun in France legally. | ||
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Ishentar
France122 Posts
On January 08 2015 06:03 r00ty wrote: There's just marginal differences between the military and civil variants. E.g. .223 Remington (civil) and 5.56mm NATO. Pic: + Show Spoiler + Indeed, few differences, however I think the experts are able to distinguish the 2 calibers. Moreover, I have an hard time loading them since my student connection is really bad, but the videos of the shooting are quite easy to find online, according to the rate of fire on them, if you know weapons, you should be able to deduce whether they're automatic or not. | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On January 08 2015 06:03 Ishentar wrote: Not limited to 3-round magazines, no. Considering you have to belong to an accredited shooting club, attend 3 meetings a year, get licensed and judged fit by a psychologist every 3 years, that's a pretty strict limit. I find it hard to believe the terrorists could've passed any psyche test, or belonged to an accredited shooting club and not been suspected of something. Being an extremist and being able to hide your views don't really go hand-in-hand. | ||
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Ishentar
France122 Posts
On January 08 2015 06:12 Millitron wrote: Considering you have to belong to an accredited shooting club, attend 3 meetings a year, get licensed and judged fit by a psychologist every 3 years, that's a pretty strict limit. I find it hard to believe the terrorists could've passed any psyche test, or belonged to an accredited shooting club and not been suspected of something. Being an extremist and being able to hide your views don't really go hand-in-hand. Indeed, since at least one of the suspects was already known as a terrorist, the second one being his brother (no one would sell a gun to the brother of a terrorist), and that the last one is only 18 years old (too young to have had a license for more than 1 year), it's hard to think that they've legally bought a gun... the prefecture needs to deliver you an authorization, it's impossible. | ||
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Ishentar
France122 Posts
They've been localized according to some french news website. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1022 Posts
On January 08 2015 06:08 Ishentar wrote: Indeed, few differences, however I think the experts are able to distinguish the 2 calibers. Moreover, I have an hard time loading them since my student connection is really bad, but the videos of the shooting are quite easy to find online, according to the rate of fire on them, if you know weapons, you should be able to deduce whether they're automatic or not. Of course, but on some photos? You can fire automatic weapons in semi-auto, which is always preferred for accurate shooting. Full auto is for rare situations (supressive fire) or the movies. In the beginning of the events they even took it as evidence for military training of the attackers that they fired their AK's single shot. From the info we have, you can not know for sure atm. It might be real AK's or "legal" conversions. | ||
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Millitron
United States2611 Posts
On January 08 2015 06:08 Ishentar wrote: Indeed, few differences, however I think the experts are able to distinguish the 2 calibers. Moreover, I have an hard time loading them since my student connection is really bad, but the videos of the shooting are quite easy to find online, according to the rate of fire on them, if you know weapons, you should be able to deduce whether they're automatic or not. Some sources I'm finding are saying the terrorists used AK47's. Which are obviously military weapons which are outright banned in France. The videos clearly sound like semi-automatic fire, which corroborates that. The AK47 is capable of both semi-automatic and fully automatic fire. | ||
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Ishentar
France122 Posts
On January 08 2015 06:20 r00ty wrote: Of course, but on some photos? You can fire automatic weapons in semi-auto, which is always preferred for accurate shooting. Full auto is for rare situations (supressive fire) or the movies. In the beginning of the events they even took it as evidence for military training of the attackers that they fired their AK's single shot. Well, french experts recovered the cartridges from the shooting, that's not photo, and that's more than enough. Anyway the black markets weapons are fully autos, and as I've said it above, the 3 suspects are one man who is too young to own legally a weapon and two other that are brothers known for terrorism since 2005-2008. French authorities never would have allowed any of them to buy guns. I can't believe our authorities would have made such a terrible mistake. Well the shooting in the street wasn't probably full auto as they aimed the policemen and that they wanted precision, but in the building where the rampage occured, at very short range, I think they must have used automatic fire, the journalists were in a meeting. | ||
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