On October 19 2007 18:31 Ilikestarcraft wrote:
really nice read i agree with everything you said
After watching savior vs stork game 2 in gom msl. You're right corsair allowed stork to control the whole game.

yea as I was watching that game all I could think was... "fucking corsairs"

Gokey

United States2722 Posts

October 20 2007 01:09 GMT

#62

amazing write-up

articulate, well-thought out, innovative

kudos, man

spetial

United States688 Posts

October 20 2007 08:35 GMT

#63

so im thinkin maybe adding a 2-3 queens (mid to late game obv) at ur xpos and main for some ensare to help take out some sairs?

IaniAniaN

Canada555 Posts

October 20 2007 10:25 GMT

#64

Could be a lot more trouble than it's worth, you'd have to know where the sairs are to be there to actually micro your stuff. Besides, if you're so desparate as to go queen, maybe get a fast hive into devourers, if he's invensting alot in corsairs, why shouldn't you invest in devos? But I'm talking out of my ass, I've never tried it. :/

Brutalisk

794 Posts

October 20 2007 11:22 GMT

#65

Not sure if a queen is a good idea. Ensnare, in particular. You'll spend 350/300 (150/100 queens nest, 100/100 queen, 100/100 ensnare upgrade) just for 1 very fragile queen that can ensnare a group of ultra-fast corsairs. Problems: you have to aim correctly (ensnare is like EMP, it doesnt follow the unit) which is hard because they're so fast, and you must have hydras nearby, if you don't, the sairs will manage to get away without any losses and will return once ensnare is gone.

Parasite would be much better. It has a higher range, it will always hit the unit, and then you will always know where his sairs are. Then it's also easier to use ensnare and have hydras ready, if your queen is still alive.

But the main problem is the cost... remember that you are forced to go mass hydra, and P will have a slight advantage because he knows what you have, so when he comes with his first "real" attack (probably consisting of speedzeals and HTs) you definately want to have as many hydras as possible (and soon get some lurkers as well)

Getting devourers in early or mid game also isn't an option. If you go hive tech and get a few devourers you'll never have enough to stop his ground forces.
It's only useful in late game, and they are actually being used then. But before, no. And the problem is that corsairs are already effective early on.

Xeln4g4

Italy1195 Posts

October 23 2007 10:47 GMT

#66

On October 20 2007 00:26 IH4t3z3rg wrote:
Too bad i can't find this article anymore.

Thanks to a friend, here we have this so interesting article on maps and race balance which i mentioned in my previous post:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=36794

Article by: mitsy

minus_human

4784 Posts

October 23 2007 11:59 GMT

#67

This little thing has reached all of the "special places"

only hall of fame left;)

1000

pyrogenetix

United Arab Emirates5090 Posts

October 23 2007 16:46 GMT

#68

HAH ZERGS I am really happy about the shift in power. we're FINALLY seeing some toss winning =D

shit dude nice write up

No_eL

Chile1438 Posts

October 29 2007 02:55 GMT

#69

great read, congrats BluzMan you just have taken a picture to the PvZ nowadays..

FieryBalrog

United States1381 Posts

October 30 2007 09:12 GMT

#70

On October 18 2007 18:05 BluzMan wrote:
Actually, I think that already zergs vastly underuse burrow. It proved to be very good vs sair/reaver on Arcadia and 815 III. I mean, if toss drops a DT on you, just burrow your drones. Toss likes to harass with 15'ish sairs -> burrow 20 hydras on their "expected" route.

On October 18 2007 10:56 CowGoMoo wrote:
good read, i bet the next major change in PvZ will be ensnare becoming standard.

God I find these possibilities so exciting.

On October 18 2007 14:14 SayaSP wrote:
Now someone needs to bring Neo Gen TvZ/ZvT or.. something different. :/

We've already had that for a while... muta stacking, 3 hatch builds and extensive defiler use totally changed the way the matchup is played... although it would be nice to see some Queen useage popping up in ZvT also. Maybe thats the next step (parasited vessels/ensnare in particular). Also, the possibilities in T biomech builds and spider mines seem very exciting.

lugggy

450 Posts

October 30 2007 18:13 GMT

#71

If parasite ever really matters they'll get restoration, unfortunately. Queens could use some help. If they came fully upped (broodling+ensnare+energy up) and parasite was not restorable, maybe then we would see more queens. If a unit is virtually unused (by most normal people), we should at least nudge them a little (one or more of the advantages above, if not a cost change) each patch until we see them in action.

Fuu

198 Posts

October 31 2007 05:51 GMT

#72

On February 16 2007 04:36 X_X wrote:
savior doesn't need a break if its fucking zvp, he will own bisu in his sleep and then prepare for the ridiculously close OSL finals

bisu will win exactly how many games they play on DF

On February 26 2007 00:15 T_T wrote:
A Protoss player will never beat Savior in a series, period.

There's no point in even bothering to watch.

EDIT:

Before someone thinks they're clever, yes I know Ra did it once. The point I'm making is that until Savior begins his inevitable "losing to everyone he plays until he drops half way down kespa" slump, no toss will beat him in a series again.

I stand by that.

So before someone think they're clever, i feel like posting this to avoid any ZvP NO SOLUTION MY GOD IMBA reactions, the other way around.

The article is incredibly well written by the way. And i know you have these views on the new PvZ trend since far before it was confirmed in the leagues, cause i remember your thoughts on the question at that time. Props

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