EPTKilling WCS America and also ESPORTS probably - Page 9
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Hydro033
United States136 Posts
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VisonKai
United States2203 Posts
However, I respect your team, your goals, and the work you've put in to get to where you are. As a fan of the Korean scene, I think the way Axiom actually treats their players well, pays them, etc. is absolutely fantastic, despite the fact that I don't particularly like any of your players. Keep up the good work. All that said, you really need to stop focusing in on negativity. The SC2 community is overwhelmingly vitriolic and negative -- I guarantee that everyone is more likely to post when they want to bash something than when they want to compliment something. During Naniwa vs Revival, the LR thread got like 30 pages because of the sound errors, and probably got the same number of pages for all three games combined, because even if it's only poking fun, people like to be negative more than they like to be positive. | ||
Valiver
Caldeum1976 Posts
On November 16 2013 01:16 Junho.C wrote: The fact that I'm standing up for my belief is enough validation for me. I'm sure the using this thread to shine more attention to Shoutcraft also factored into your making of this thread. Can you please stop responding with this utter nonsense to this thread? You keep posting the same crap every time either about how TB is being hypocritical in calling out WSC or by saying some personal attack on how you think he runs his team or how you have some psycho-analysis for why you think someone over the internet is acting a certain way. How can you possibly know that TB created this post to get attention? It is full of very real content, and seems to me to be a response to trolls in the first place. The only reason this was posted was because he gets this crap from people like you all the time. If he wanted more attention, would it not be better to post this somewhere more visible than the blogs forum on TL, and post it on reddit and everywhere else? How can you think to know what goes on in TB's head, and think that he does it all for some deep insecurity he has, that you picked up on through this post? You say yourself that you haven't seen a lot of his content, but apparently you have seen enough to have his whole character and deepest desires figured out. But keep harping on about how this is all publicity. TB trying to help the American scene is obviously for his own gains, and him dishing out his own personal money to help Starcraft grow is just a ruse to actually make more money right? Yeah, that sounds about right. Also about the whole WSC region lock and his team playing in American? That was answered in the main post but you don't seem to be understanding it, or it just passed way over your head. Read it again. And to TB: don't pay too much heed to all the idiots; they will always be there, lurking in the open waiting to say something stupid. You do an awesome job for this community and we don't deserve someone like you committing so much to us unconditionally. Never lose that passion. | ||
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11cc
Finland561 Posts
On November 16 2013 02:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2013 01:10 Lorch wrote: I think most people (from those who dislike you) just dislike your casting. When Moletrap left I thought I'd never had to mute again, then you started casting MLGs. However I don't really mind as I can easily watch the game muted and enjoy some music, however when you cast the finals where hearing the crowd etc. is just part of the experience it just becomes very annoying. If you would just have no idea what you are talking about and add nothing to the experience I'd be perfectly fine, but you actually shout as loud as you can whenever anything happens and that is just beyond annoying. Again you can do whatever you want and I am NOT posting this to hate on you but to answer a question you asked. You say you sent your team to US as you just had to in the best interest of the team, yet some of your players were main stays in code s in the past (especially ryung) and pretty much all of them would have at least been capable of making it into code a, plus none of them made it to blizzcon anyways. If you truly care as much about the US scene as you said you would have told your players to stay in KR to protect the NA scene, yet you did sent them there. And then you try to farm a market of people who are interested in watching NA players. To me you just helped to create a mass of people who are disappointed in WCS NA (just how you bitched about WCS when it was announced only to cast it (aka support it) a few weeks later) to have them as viewers for your next project. Sadly you seem to enjoy replying to people who dislike you in a very aggressive and mean way so you'll probably pick one point of my post, deny it and then tell me how much of a fool I am. On top of that you display yourself as the saint who only does starcraft cause he loves it so much and would make more money with youtube in the same time. It reminds me of how blizzard talks about only doing esports cause they love it so much, yet they killed off professional brood war to let star 2 shine... Please go do youtube if you loose so much money doing starcraft instead. You don't have to be the saint... Ahh here's Lorch, the guy who has repeatedly told me to GTFO out of the scene. It really is a rogues gallery in here today. Didn't even bother to read the OP, not remotely surprising. Examples of his toxicity and hilarious double-standards include this post just a few short days ago http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435397¤tpage=5#83 As you can see, Lorcho cares so much about the NA scene that he wished for an NA specific event to fail solely to satisfy his irrational dislike of me. Clearly he is a fantastic representative of the opposing side in this discussion. More double standard toxicity http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328653¤tpage=2#36 Claims he loves what I do for the scene and has no problem with me as a person, wishes my failure and the failure of my event. Classy. Other examples of Lorcho being a shithead http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19524496 In which Lorcho laughs at the retirement of Genna and claims that the players shouldn't be on my team because of his irrational dislike of me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19426578 Celebrating the fact that MLG is not doing SC2 anymore because it might mean that I stop casting. THE COMEDY JUST KEEPS ROLLING! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=138967¤tpage=2830#56596 Shits on NA scene and all the players in SHOUTcraft America just to have a dig at me, BUT HE REALLY SUPPORTS THE NA SCENE GUYS, HONEST. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=411563¤tpage=3#50 Insults Schamtoos casting, but just can't stop himself from having a dig at me too. Guy is clearly obsessed. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=388131¤tpage=20#391 Goes apeshit because I cast a couple of proleague matches. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387936¤tpage=2#30 Apparently I am not even worthy to cast an FFA http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385519¤tpage=22#428 Don't hate too much on the new guys folks, unless they're Schamtoo because fuck that guy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=380884¤tpage=3#48 I JUST CANNOT STOP TALKING ABOUT TOTALBISCUIT http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321940¤tpage=2#40 Honestly guys, there are professional casters with knowledge in Bronze league. I am not making this up. Please pay attention to me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306189¤tpage=3#42 It makes me hard to come to threads about events TotalBiscuit has organised and complain about his casting. I just cannot stop. I may have a problem http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=241664¤tpage=23#459 But no honest I really like TB, he worked fine with Apollo. Except for all those posts where I said he didn't. There you have it folks, just a small sample of Lorchos history of irrational dislike lasting OVER 2 YEARS! That only took 5 minutes to find via search, I can't imagine how much more of it there is. On November 14 2013 09:22 TotalBiscuit wrote: Let me know when Lorch stops posting. I've made the mistake of giving him a small piece of relevance by replying to him. Can't help it, can you? | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On November 15 2013 13:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: Yes I do. Here's the thing about WCS, it's not actually that much fun. The costs associated with WCS are massive, the travel budget is being completely blown on WCS flights for a tournament that the players don't really enjoy that much anyway. Our players much prefer things like Dreamhack or various regional IEMs and we can send them to more of those events next year if we spend less money flying them to WCS America. It's not like MLG, ESL and NASL aren't trying to make the best with what they have but the WCS format doesn't lend itself well to a really fun competition whereas those weekend tournaments do. I think our guys have proven they can fight with the best in GSTL, and it's not like they escaped fighting tough players by going to WCS America, they ran into some of the top-tier Koreans in their journey through the tournament this year. However, if region-locking were to come into effect, I feel Korean competition must be stimulated further. The talent pool in Korea is massive and there aren't enough tournaments for them to play in. You might say "oh, well just send em to the other regions", well good luck doing that. The teams doing that are the ones that have the budget for it, everyone else is just kinda stuck languishing in Code A or B. Korea has such a massive talent pool that it needs more tournaments to accommodate it. I'm constantly flabbergasted by the lack of Korean tournaments outside of WCS and Proleague. I'd like to see Blizzard can the grand-slams and use that budget to put on another regular event in Korea to give those pros something to fight for. Maybe we wouldn't have so many great Korean players retiring if they actually had place to play. and that my friend is why you make those majors the actual circuit. You don't necessarily need region-locking to make engaging events where all the players get to attend. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
Nope, I can't. Character flaw. Could be worse. Could be a rapist. When I get to the pearly gates and Peter rolls off all my crimes, finding the top one to be "sometimes replied to trolls on the internet", I think I'll be fine. and that my friend is why you make those majors the actual circuit. You don't necessarily need region-locking to make engaging events where all the players get to attend. Ya, absolutely. IMHO things should be switched around. WCS should be focussed on regional, daily competition. The major tournaments should be the circuit. WCS could feed into those tournaments, providing qualification spots and travel assistance. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On November 16 2013 02:40 TotalBiscuit wrote: Nope, I can't. Character flaw. Could be worse. Could be a rapist. When I get to the pearly gates and Peter rolls off all my crimes, finding the top one to be "sometimes replied to trolls on the internet", I think I'll be fine. Ya, absolutely. IMHO things should be switched around. WCS should be focussed on regional, daily competition. The major tournaments should be the circuit. I would so love Bunny's job. | ||
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11cc
Finland561 Posts
On November 16 2013 02:40 TotalBiscuit wrote: Nope, I can't. Character flaw. Could be worse. Could be a rapist. When I get to the pearly gates and Peter rolls off all my crimes, finding the top one to be "sometimes replied to trolls on the internet", I think I'll be fine. Hahaha... not worried about what Peter will think, but one day you might burn out dealing with this kind of stuff on top of the real work. But if you like it, no problem. Thanks for all you do for starcraft. | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19141 Posts
On November 15 2013 12:49 TotalBiscuit wrote: The misconception is that I'm answering trolls when what I'm actually trying to do is educate a wider audience on the realities of the industry right now. Someone's posting bullshit? Take it as an opportunity to spread more information among people who may not otherwise have access to it. Turn that negativity into something useful. I agree with this. It is important to take moments to explain realities of the industry. You'd be suprised how many people actually know very little. The hardcore crowd is well informed and that's why it is frustrating to see TB have to go through this. But it is really important to educate the casual crowd to otherwise the vocal misinformed who contribute little to the scene are doing more damage then those working there ass off for the scene and don't have time to be vocal. | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On November 16 2013 03:10 BisuDagger wrote: I agree with this. It is important to take moments to explain realities of the industry. You'd be suprised how many people actually know very little. The hardcore crowd is well informed and that's why it is frustrating to see TB have to go through this. But it is really important to educate the casual crowd to otherwise the vocal misinformed who contribute little to the scene are doing more damage then those working there ass off for the scene and don't have time to be vocal. Lots of people like to point to the vocal minority as the cause of the nonsense within the scene, saying the "community" as a whole is not at fault but I disagree. I think that is just dodging responsibility for some of the poison that is circulated. Vocal minority they may be but if no-one else is well informed enough to shout those people down outside of community personalities who instantly become bullet magnets for even suggesting that the community might not be 100% amazing, then that's an unhealthy environment for this game to exist within. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19141 Posts
On November 16 2013 03:15 TotalBiscuit wrote: Lots of people like to point to the vocal minority as the cause of the nonsense within the scene, saying the "community" as a whole is not at fault but I disagree. I think that is just dodging responsibility for some of the poison that is circulated. Vocal minority they may be but if no-one else is well informed enough to shout those people down outside of community personalities who instantly become bullet magnets for even suggesting that the community might not be 100% amazing, then that's an unhealthy environment for this game to exist within. That's why I chose to say vocal misinformed instead of minority(but I guess it's really not that different). Anyway, I know I'm in a far different position then you as far as fighting this battle but negative vocal minority has been my focus because you can drown them out if there is a positive vocal minority. It honestly lights a fire under my ass to be more proactive when I see people attacking the scene. I will admit it got so bad I had to take a break from the SC2 scene. But coming back refreshed there is a lot of spirit left in the community that wants to be louder. WCS finals was a huge breakthrough for the SC2 scene and I felt like the light was rekindled a lot. As far as that dude bashing your casting since I just read that point. Any time you are in media there will be people who hate you and people who love you. And then the worse kind, the people who say they hate you but still listen to you instead of turning the dial. This is a phrase I carry with me from a radio show I listen to daily. "He who cares the least wins." Taking a lesson from 20 years radio pros, they just stopped caring. In fact they let people who want to call in and tell them how bad they are actual radio time to voice there opinion. And then they laugh about it and move on. It's quite motivational to see them deal with adversity in that manner. I think age and pride is something that makes it really hard to deal with since the scene is young like you and I both are. Yet for someone in your position it takes a level of maturity that takes a decade to develop yet you have to make up the time very quickly because the pace of ESports doesn't allow you to grow and be nurtured into the scene. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19141 Posts
On November 16 2013 03:55 WolfintheSheep wrote: I kinda wish TL would ban people for being sheer idiots. I wouldn't even care if I lost my own account because of it... There's reasons why some us staff don't have a hammer. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23307 Posts
The guy does decent to fantastic E-sports content, tournaments out of his own pocket and fantastic general gaming content. In a world where people employed by the big sites put out the equivalent of press releases on the behest of big publishers and passes them off as 'reviews'. It's quite refreshing to have a guy with such crossover appeal involved in our scene, especially that it's pretty damn clear he is not just piggybacking off Starcraft in order to make a quick buck. Why does TB get so much shit? Because he actually is forthright with his opinions and people think that makes him a fair target for pointless derailings of every interesting discussion he starts. I would consider Day9 the only other equivalent kind of crossover figure that's intimately involved in the Starcraft scene who has a following independent of it. For whatever reason (perhaps his Brood War background and historical playing chops) he gets a far less vitriolic response from the 'community'. Oh cool, you don't like his casting. Great, go make a blog about how much you hate TB's casting, don't derail an interesting thread about the entire Blizzard-orchestrated structure that is supposed to be the pinnacle of competitive SC2 To be honest, fuck E-sports growing any larger, if the kind of irrelevant negativity it engenders towards people in a scene now is any indicator, if it ever hits the genuine mainstream the floodgates holding back a torrent of utter idiocy and innanity will burst. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Pazuzu
United States632 Posts
On November 16 2013 02:02 TotalBiscuit wrote: Ahh here's Lorch, the guy who has repeatedly told me to GTFO out of the scene. It really is a rogues gallery in here today. Didn't even bother to read the OP, not remotely surprising. Examples of his toxicity and hilarious double-standards include this post just a few short days ago http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=435397¤tpage=5#83 As you can see, Lorcho cares so much about the NA scene that he wished for an NA specific event to fail solely to satisfy his irrational dislike of me. Clearly he is a fantastic representative of the opposing side in this discussion. More double standard toxicity http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328653¤tpage=2#36 Claims he loves what I do for the scene and has no problem with me as a person, wishes my failure and the failure of my event. Classy. Other examples of Lorcho being a shithead http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19524496 In which Lorcho laughs at the retirement of Genna and claims that the players shouldn't be on my team because of his irrational dislike of me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19426578 Celebrating the fact that MLG is not doing SC2 anymore because it might mean that I stop casting. THE COMEDY JUST KEEPS ROLLING! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=138967¤tpage=2830#56596 Shits on NA scene and all the players in SHOUTcraft America just to have a dig at me, BUT HE REALLY SUPPORTS THE NA SCENE GUYS, HONEST. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=411563¤tpage=3#50 Insults Schamtoos casting, but just can't stop himself from having a dig at me too. Guy is clearly obsessed. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=388131¤tpage=20#391 Goes apeshit because I cast a couple of proleague matches. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387936¤tpage=2#30 Apparently I am not even worthy to cast an FFA http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385519¤tpage=22#428 Don't hate too much on the new guys folks, unless they're Schamtoo because fuck that guy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=380884¤tpage=3#48 I JUST CANNOT STOP TALKING ABOUT TOTALBISCUIT http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=321940¤tpage=2#40 Honestly guys, there are professional casters with knowledge in Bronze league. I am not making this up. Please pay attention to me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306189¤tpage=3#42 It makes me hard to come to threads about events TotalBiscuit has organised and complain about his casting. I just cannot stop. I may have a problem http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=241664¤tpage=23#459 But no honest I really like TB, he worked fine with Apollo. Except for all those posts where I said he didn't. There you have it folks, just a small sample of Lorchos history of irrational dislike lasting OVER 2 YEARS! That only took 5 minutes to find via search, I can't imagine how much more of it there is. Okay this just made me laugh. Good lord that's some research | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
TB fighting | ||
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R3DT1D3
285 Posts
On November 15 2013 12:38 TotalBiscuit wrote: 6) Why is it that Axiom is the only team getting criticised for sending Koreans to WCS America? Such a strange thing to do when we're also providing opportunities for Americans with the SCA tournaments. I suppose the loudest person is the easiest target, but it all strikes me as rather odd. I'm not in favour of any team getting flack for that but it does seem curiously silent when referring to EG or Teamliquid. There's actually a few reasonable explanations for this. 1) EG and TL (to a lesser extent after the move to Europe) are US based without team houses in Korea. It makes much more sense for them to compete in WCS NA than your team which is entirely Korean with a team house readily available. 2) You sort of hit on this but neither EG nor TL is as actively denouncing the WCS system as frequently or openly as you. To the outside world, they look to just be towing the line and taking that Blizzard money while you appear to be a rebel that's still a part of the problem. I don't necessarily agree but I see where people could be coming from in this regard. | ||
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Ballack
Norway821 Posts
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
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