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What? I think there's much more positivity than negativity when it comes to TB and Axiom. You guys have been nothing but supporting the scene for so long! Never forget that.
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On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:08 Junho.C wrote:
Impact did not compete in WCS AM S3 because by the time he joined Axiom, WCS AM S3 was already in progress. If your entire team composed of Koreans are competing in WCS AM and taking opportunities away from regional players that you, yourself, are criticizing about. Have the decency to not criticize the format that your team and players are exploiting. Shoutcraft is a very good idea and I'm all for it. But, your two-faced attitude about region lock and developing regions DO NOT help to promote Shoutcraft or your intention of promoting global SC2 as a whole. I like how you didn't bother to respond to any of the things I said at all. Also since you were the person who posted the misconception this blog posts exists to respond to, to begin with I'd have thought you'd put in a bit more effort to refute some of the stuff I just said. Impact is competing in WCS America because he's playing in WCS Korea and qualified for Challenger. Also we very specifically talked about that with him before we even signed him and he wants to play in Korea. There's nothing two-faced about my attitude and the only people saying that are those looking for "gotcha" crap and with too simplistic an understanding of the situation to have good grounds on which to form an opinion. I added this, so consider this as well: Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well. Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting. Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey!
I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact.
There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument.
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On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:08 Junho.C wrote:
Impact did not compete in WCS AM S3 because by the time he joined Axiom, WCS AM S3 was already in progress. If your entire team composed of Koreans are competing in WCS AM and taking opportunities away from regional players that you, yourself, are criticizing about. Have the decency to not criticize the format that your team and players are exploiting. Shoutcraft is a very good idea and I'm all for it. But, your two-faced attitude about region lock and developing regions DO NOT help to promote Shoutcraft or your intention of promoting global SC2 as a whole. I like how you didn't bother to respond to any of the things I said at all. Also since you were the person who posted the misconception this blog posts exists to respond to, to begin with I'd have thought you'd put in a bit more effort to refute some of the stuff I just said. Impact is competing in WCS America because he's playing in WCS Korea and qualified for Challenger. Also we very specifically talked about that with him before we even signed him and he wants to play in Korea. There's nothing two-faced about my attitude and the only people saying that are those looking for "gotcha" crap and with too simplistic an understanding of the situation to have good grounds on which to form an opinion. I added this, so consider this as well: Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well. Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting. Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey! I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument.
Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all.
I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't.
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can i just say that amongst a lot of trolls and negativity, the fact that you are using your own money to support a sc2 team makes you a personal hero of mine. and Junho.C, he may not support it, but as he said in his post (if you bothered to read it) is that attending WCS NA was his own player's choices, not his. just because he doesn't support WCS NA doesn't mean he's going to stop his players from playing if they wish too.
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On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:08 Junho.C wrote:
Impact did not compete in WCS AM S3 because by the time he joined Axiom, WCS AM S3 was already in progress. If your entire team composed of Koreans are competing in WCS AM and taking opportunities away from regional players that you, yourself, are criticizing about. Have the decency to not criticize the format that your team and players are exploiting. Shoutcraft is a very good idea and I'm all for it. But, your two-faced attitude about region lock and developing regions DO NOT help to promote Shoutcraft or your intention of promoting global SC2 as a whole. I like how you didn't bother to respond to any of the things I said at all. Also since you were the person who posted the misconception this blog posts exists to respond to, to begin with I'd have thought you'd put in a bit more effort to refute some of the stuff I just said. Impact is competing in WCS America because he's playing in WCS Korea and qualified for Challenger. Also we very specifically talked about that with him before we even signed him and he wants to play in Korea. There's nothing two-faced about my attitude and the only people saying that are those looking for "gotcha" crap and with too simplistic an understanding of the situation to have good grounds on which to form an opinion. I added this, so consider this as well: Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well. Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting. Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey! I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument.
the analogy would be better if TB was encouraging people not to exploit the system while exploiting the system
this is quite different
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On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:
There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument.
Look, your argument is pretty flawed.
Your mentioned zealot (which is a good choice for a unit, I may add) has a choice. TB is only a team manager and cannot change the ruleset of WCS - he has literally no choice, except for boycott. But that would achieve nothing.
There is nothing wrong stating a system is wrong while using it. I don't like specialized templates in C++ because I consider them flawed, that doesn't mean I'm not using the tools I'm given to do my job. That's the difference between a dreamer and a professional.
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On November 15 2013 13:35 dangthatsright wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:08 Junho.C wrote:
Impact did not compete in WCS AM S3 because by the time he joined Axiom, WCS AM S3 was already in progress. If your entire team composed of Koreans are competing in WCS AM and taking opportunities away from regional players that you, yourself, are criticizing about. Have the decency to not criticize the format that your team and players are exploiting. Shoutcraft is a very good idea and I'm all for it. But, your two-faced attitude about region lock and developing regions DO NOT help to promote Shoutcraft or your intention of promoting global SC2 as a whole. I like how you didn't bother to respond to any of the things I said at all. Also since you were the person who posted the misconception this blog posts exists to respond to, to begin with I'd have thought you'd put in a bit more effort to refute some of the stuff I just said. Impact is competing in WCS America because he's playing in WCS Korea and qualified for Challenger. Also we very specifically talked about that with him before we even signed him and he wants to play in Korea. There's nothing two-faced about my attitude and the only people saying that are those looking for "gotcha" crap and with too simplistic an understanding of the situation to have good grounds on which to form an opinion. I added this, so consider this as well: Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well. Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting. Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey! I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. the analogy would be better if TB was encouraging people not to exploit the system while exploiting the system this is quite different
This man actually understands what hypocrisy is. I've never condemned any Korean player for competing in WCS America. Times are hard, you do what you gotta do. You have to play within the bounds of the rules we have.
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Genuinely surprised people are silly enough to come up with ridiculous scenarios and give you shit for things they've made up. But hey, internet gonna internet. Keep on doing what you're doing and try not to bite too much of the bait trolls are dangling in front of you.
Secondly, I read this in your voice and it was like pouring chocolate over my brain.
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Germany25648 Posts
TB fighting the good fight as usual.
Looking forward to Shoutcraft 
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On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:08 Junho.C wrote:
Impact did not compete in WCS AM S3 because by the time he joined Axiom, WCS AM S3 was already in progress. If your entire team composed of Koreans are competing in WCS AM and taking opportunities away from regional players that you, yourself, are criticizing about. Have the decency to not criticize the format that your team and players are exploiting. Shoutcraft is a very good idea and I'm all for it. But, your two-faced attitude about region lock and developing regions DO NOT help to promote Shoutcraft or your intention of promoting global SC2 as a whole. I like how you didn't bother to respond to any of the things I said at all. Also since you were the person who posted the misconception this blog posts exists to respond to, to begin with I'd have thought you'd put in a bit more effort to refute some of the stuff I just said. Impact is competing in WCS America because he's playing in WCS Korea and qualified for Challenger. Also we very specifically talked about that with him before we even signed him and he wants to play in Korea. There's nothing two-faced about my attitude and the only people saying that are those looking for "gotcha" crap and with too simplistic an understanding of the situation to have good grounds on which to form an opinion. I added this, so consider this as well: Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well. Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting. Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey! I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't.
Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises he's made before he became the President. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated.
I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSport have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name.
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On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:08 Junho.C wrote:
Impact did not compete in WCS AM S3 because by the time he joined Axiom, WCS AM S3 was already in progress. If your entire team composed of Koreans are competing in WCS AM and taking opportunities away from regional players that you, yourself, are criticizing about. Have the decency to not criticize the format that your team and players are exploiting. Shoutcraft is a very good idea and I'm all for it. But, your two-faced attitude about region lock and developing regions DO NOT help to promote Shoutcraft or your intention of promoting global SC2 as a whole. I like how you didn't bother to respond to any of the things I said at all. Also since you were the person who posted the misconception this blog posts exists to respond to, to begin with I'd have thought you'd put in a bit more effort to refute some of the stuff I just said. Impact is competing in WCS America because he's playing in WCS Korea and qualified for Challenger. Also we very specifically talked about that with him before we even signed him and he wants to play in Korea. There's nothing two-faced about my attitude and the only people saying that are those looking for "gotcha" crap and with too simplistic an understanding of the situation to have good grounds on which to form an opinion. I added this, so consider this as well: Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well. Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting. Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey! I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name.
I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama.
People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me.
Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position.
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I don't see why people are being dramatic about this at all. Just a vocal minority seizing out-of-context quotes, they'd be shitting on you no matter what you said.
Thank you for supporting the Korean and American Starcraft scenes TB, it doesn't get said enough.
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wtf? Axiom is a fan favorite for many. Don't let the haters get to you.
Thanks for addressing some points surrounding the little amount of negativity directed towards your team.
As always, thanks for doing what you do in esports!
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On November 15 2013 13:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:08 Junho.C wrote:
Impact did not compete in WCS AM S3 because by the time he joined Axiom, WCS AM S3 was already in progress. If your entire team composed of Koreans are competing in WCS AM and taking opportunities away from regional players that you, yourself, are criticizing about. Have the decency to not criticize the format that your team and players are exploiting. Shoutcraft is a very good idea and I'm all for it. But, your two-faced attitude about region lock and developing regions DO NOT help to promote Shoutcraft or your intention of promoting global SC2 as a whole. I like how you didn't bother to respond to any of the things I said at all. Also since you were the person who posted the misconception this blog posts exists to respond to, to begin with I'd have thought you'd put in a bit more effort to refute some of the stuff I just said. Impact is competing in WCS America because he's playing in WCS Korea and qualified for Challenger. Also we very specifically talked about that with him before we even signed him and he wants to play in Korea. There's nothing two-faced about my attitude and the only people saying that are those looking for "gotcha" crap and with too simplistic an understanding of the situation to have good grounds on which to form an opinion. I added this, so consider this as well: Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well. Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting. Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey! I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name. I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama. People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me. Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position.
It had actually 0 effect, as you were hired by Blizzard to cast Hearthstone at Blizzcon. I only used President Obama as an example as he is the one the people will most recognize. While he criticized the surveillance of citizens and allies, he has done precisely the thing he criticized after he became the president. Similar to how you criticized the non region locked system of WCS, yet your team took advantage of it and used it once WCS started.
Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware.
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On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:
Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware.
Wow, you have actually no idea what's going on ... never watched any of his videos or State of the Game ?
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On November 15 2013 13:54 MaxiTB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:
Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Wow, you have actually no idea what's going on ... never watched any of his videos or State of the Game ?
No, I have not. I do not have time to watch all his videos that are not very publicized. I do know, however, that he has been extremely vocal about WCS and those have gotten the most attention. Therefore, I'm inclined to reach the conclusion that he has criticized other tournaments far less.
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On November 15 2013 13:54 MaxiTB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:
Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Wow, you have actually no idea what's going on ... never watched any of his videos or State of the Game ?
Despite all your hard work TB, there's just no pleasing some people. I think what you're doing is great and we need more opportunities like this for the NA scene. People forget so easily that the whole professional BW scene was initially built off of a few people working really really hard to grow something they believed in. SC2 benefits a ton from these events, in NA in particular, and I'm looking forward to Shoutcraft!
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On November 15 2013 14:02 sinsecticide wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:54 MaxiTB wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:
Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Wow, you have actually no idea what's going on ... never watched any of his videos or State of the Game ? Despite all your hard work TB, there's just no pleasing some people. I think what you're doing is great and we need more opportunities like this for the NA scene. People forget so easily that the whole professional BW scene was initially built off of a few people working really really hard to grow something they believed in. SC2 benefits a ton from these events, in NA in particular, and I'm looking forward to Shoutcraft!
I'm not criticizing his work. I'm only criticizing TB criticism on WCS and Blizzard, who has done far more work and spent more money in SC2 while his team is taking advantage of the tournament format he's criticizing.
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On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:08 Junho.C wrote:
Impact did not compete in WCS AM S3 because by the time he joined Axiom, WCS AM S3 was already in progress. If your entire team composed of Koreans are competing in WCS AM and taking opportunities away from regional players that you, yourself, are criticizing about. Have the decency to not criticize the format that your team and players are exploiting. Shoutcraft is a very good idea and I'm all for it. But, your two-faced attitude about region lock and developing regions DO NOT help to promote Shoutcraft or your intention of promoting global SC2 as a whole. I like how you didn't bother to respond to any of the things I said at all. Also since you were the person who posted the misconception this blog posts exists to respond to, to begin with I'd have thought you'd put in a bit more effort to refute some of the stuff I just said. Impact is competing in WCS America because he's playing in WCS Korea and qualified for Challenger. Also we very specifically talked about that with him before we even signed him and he wants to play in Korea. There's nothing two-faced about my attitude and the only people saying that are those looking for "gotcha" crap and with too simplistic an understanding of the situation to have good grounds on which to form an opinion. I added this, so consider this as well: Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well. Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting. Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey! I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name. I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama. People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me. Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position. It had actually 0 effect, as you were hired by Blizzard to cast Hearthstone at Blizzcon. I only used President Obama as an example as he is the one the people will most recognize. While he criticized the surveillance of citizens and allies, he has done precisely the thing he criticized after he became the president. Similar to how you criticized the non region locked system of WCS, yet your team took advantage of it and used it once WCS started. Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware.
Oh man you are so bad at this whole debate thing. Your false equivalency is so glaring I'm shocked you can't see it yourself when everyone else has no problem spotting it miles away. Obama criticized surveillance then when coming to power he commited surveillance. TotalBiscuit criticised the lack of region-lock and when coming to power (lol) did not region-lock.... wait... he didn't have the power to region lock. The mental gymnastics you're having to go through to reach the conclusion that I'm somehow doing the very thing I'm criticising, which as a team-owner not a tournament provider is literally impossible (and I'm actually like the only tournament operator who IS region-locking his tournaments) are olympic level. I'd give you a solid 9 if you hadn't botched the landing.
Let's repeat for the class. Criticising a tournament for lack of region lock while having your Korean players play in it is not hypocrisy, it is not double-standards and it is not ethically questionable. It is not a region-locked tournament. I might as well be sending them to Dreamhack, it'd have the exact same effect. They're all non-region locked events, there is currently no difference. Why am I not criticising other tournaments? Well gee that's not exactly a hard one, maybe it's because WCS is the dominant weekly format whereas all these other events are weekend warrior or online. The entire SC2 scene now revolves around WCS, everyone else has to play musical chairs with them in time to the music or be left out in the cold. WCS dictates how this scene now operates and has the biggest influence by far. Why would I criticize other tournaments? It's not their job to stimulate the regional scenes (yet there are plenty of them that do anyway btw, especially in Europe). It is WCS job and it's failing at it.
The more I speak to you the more I'm convinced you're grasping at straws to desperately try and resolve some weird cognitive dissonance stuff in your head.
Blizzard, who has done far more work and spent more money in SC2
Creator of the game and multi-national billion dollar developer/publisher in spending more money than some British guy working out of a home office shocker. I'm actually beginning to see what your agenda is. It's not actually against me, it's in defense of Blizzard and you're shuffling the logic and facts around to fit with that defense. Well let me stop you right there. You're not Blizzards PR guy.
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On November 15 2013 14:06 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:02 sinsecticide wrote:On November 15 2013 13:54 MaxiTB wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:
Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Wow, you have actually no idea what's going on ... never watched any of his videos or State of the Game ? Despite all your hard work TB, there's just no pleasing some people. I think what you're doing is great and we need more opportunities like this for the NA scene. People forget so easily that the whole professional BW scene was initially built off of a few people working really really hard to grow something they believed in. SC2 benefits a ton from these events, in NA in particular, and I'm looking forward to Shoutcraft! I'm not criticizing his work. I'm only criticizing TB criticism on WCS and Blizzard, who has done far more work and spent more money in SC2 while his team is taking advantage of the tournament format he's criticizing.
Holy shit your ridiculous arguments are starting to make my head hurt.
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EPT
