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TB,
What you do for the scene is amazing. We all need to appreciate that. At the same time, people will always criticize, especially on the Internet.... It's okay. Unless there is a legitimate swell of criticism, I'd honestly ignore it, confident that good work and good intentions win in the end.
Godspeed.
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On November 15 2013 14:19 Fishriot wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:06 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 14:02 sinsecticide wrote:On November 15 2013 13:54 MaxiTB wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:
Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Wow, you have actually no idea what's going on ... never watched any of his videos or State of the Game ? Despite all your hard work TB, there's just no pleasing some people. I think what you're doing is great and we need more opportunities like this for the NA scene. People forget so easily that the whole professional BW scene was initially built off of a few people working really really hard to grow something they believed in. SC2 benefits a ton from these events, in NA in particular, and I'm looking forward to Shoutcraft! I'm not criticizing his work. I'm only criticizing TB criticism on WCS and Blizzard, who has done far more work and spent more money in SC2 while his team is taking advantage of the tournament format he's criticizing. Holy shit your ridiculous arguments are starting to make my head hurt.
Starting?
User was warned for this post
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On November 15 2013 14:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:08 Junho.C wrote:
Impact did not compete in WCS AM S3 because by the time he joined Axiom, WCS AM S3 was already in progress. If your entire team composed of Koreans are competing in WCS AM and taking opportunities away from regional players that you, yourself, are criticizing about. Have the decency to not criticize the format that your team and players are exploiting. Shoutcraft is a very good idea and I'm all for it. But, your two-faced attitude about region lock and developing regions DO NOT help to promote Shoutcraft or your intention of promoting global SC2 as a whole. I like how you didn't bother to respond to any of the things I said at all. Also since you were the person who posted the misconception this blog posts exists to respond to, to begin with I'd have thought you'd put in a bit more effort to refute some of the stuff I just said. Impact is competing in WCS America because he's playing in WCS Korea and qualified for Challenger. Also we very specifically talked about that with him before we even signed him and he wants to play in Korea. There's nothing two-faced about my attitude and the only people saying that are those looking for "gotcha" crap and with too simplistic an understanding of the situation to have good grounds on which to form an opinion. I added this, so consider this as well: Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well. Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting. Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey! I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name. I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama. People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me. Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position. It had actually 0 effect, as you were hired by Blizzard to cast Hearthstone at Blizzcon. I only used President Obama as an example as he is the one the people will most recognize. While he criticized the surveillance of citizens and allies, he has done precisely the thing he criticized after he became the president. Similar to how you criticized the non region locked system of WCS, yet your team took advantage of it and used it once WCS started. Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Oh man you are so bad at this whole debate thing. Your false equivalency is so glaring I'm shocked you can't see it yourself when everyone else has no problem spotting it miles away. Obama criticized surveillance then when coming to power he commited surveillance. TotalBiscuit criticised the lack of region-lock and when coming to power (lol) did not region-lock.... wait... he didn't have the power to region lock. The mental gymnastics you're having to go through to reach the conclusion that I'm somehow doing the very thing I'm criticising, which as a team-owner not a tournament provider is literally impossible (and I'm actually like the only tournament operator who IS region-locking his tournaments) are olympic level. I'd give you a solid 9 if you hadn't botched the landing. Let's repeat for the class. Criticising a tournament for lack of region lock while having your Korean players play in it is not hypocrisy, it is not double-standards and it is not ethically questionable. It is not a region-locked tournament. I might as well be sending them to Dreamhack, it'd have the exact same effect. They're all non-region locked events, there is currently no difference. Why am I not criticising other tournaments? Well gee that's not exactly a hard one, maybe it's because WCS is the dominant weekly format whereas all these other events are weekend warrior or online. The entire SC2 scene now revolves around WCS, everyone else has to play musical chairs with them in time to the music or be left out in the cold. WCS dictates how this scene now operates and has the biggest influence by far. Why would I criticize other tournaments? It's not their job to stimulate the regional scenes (yet there are plenty of them that do anyway btw, especially in Europe). It is WCS job and it's failing at it. The more I speak to you the more I'm convinced you're grasping at straws to desperately try and resolve some weird cognitive dissonance stuff in your head.
If I was so bad at this whole debate thing, as you say. My post would not have gotten your attention. You can dismiss my example as poor one, but you still get the jist of what I'm talking about. You can downplay my example as a poor one, but it is still valid and so is the point I'm addressing. You may not have the power to region lock, but you perpetuated the process while criticizing the system you are taking advantage of. If WCS AM had 4 less major Koreans(Axiom) and they were in EU, Blizzard and WCS may not even be facing as strong outcry for region lock at all.
The definition of hypocrisy is:
the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
You claim that you are for region lock(while enjoying the publicity your videos and other medium got you), yet you sent your players to WCS AM, knowing that it would deprive of regional player's exposure within WCS AM. You proclaim that you can not legally tell the players where they can play. This is true, but you supplied the funds to send them to WCS AM. Many Korean players want to play in WCS AM, but do not because their teams won't supply the funds. Therefore, while you MIGHT not have told them to play in WCS AM, you were complacent as your sponsors and you(Youtube), are based in foreign scenes.
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On November 15 2013 14:02 sinsecticide wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:54 MaxiTB wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:
Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Wow, you have actually no idea what's going on ... never watched any of his videos or State of the Game ? Despite all your hard work TB, there's just no pleasing some people. I think what you're doing is great and we need more opportunities like this for the NA scene. People forget so easily that the whole professional BW scene was initially built off of a few people working really really hard to grow something they believed in. SC2 benefits a ton from these events, in NA in particular, and I'm looking forward to Shoutcraft!
Ehm ... thanks ?
But I honestly think you are mixing me up with someone (I was blushing till I read Shoutcraft) ;-).
It's funny. The guy who did the most for the NA SC2 pro scene is (was?) British and managing a Korean team.
Okay, that's a little far fetched, cause they are many others - but he's the one still sitting in the line of fire by those he supports. US is a strange place ...
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On November 15 2013 14:20 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
I like how you didn't bother to respond to any of the things I said at all. Also since you were the person who posted the misconception this blog posts exists to respond to, to begin with I'd have thought you'd put in a bit more effort to refute some of the stuff I just said.
Impact is competing in WCS America because he's playing in WCS Korea and qualified for Challenger. Also we very specifically talked about that with him before we even signed him and he wants to play in Korea.
There's nothing two-faced about my attitude and the only people saying that are those looking for "gotcha" crap and with too simplistic an understanding of the situation to have good grounds on which to form an opinion. I added this, so consider this as well: Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well. Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting. Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey! I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name. I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama. People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me. Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position. It had actually 0 effect, as you were hired by Blizzard to cast Hearthstone at Blizzcon. I only used President Obama as an example as he is the one the people will most recognize. While he criticized the surveillance of citizens and allies, he has done precisely the thing he criticized after he became the president. Similar to how you criticized the non region locked system of WCS, yet your team took advantage of it and used it once WCS started. Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Oh man you are so bad at this whole debate thing. Your false equivalency is so glaring I'm shocked you can't see it yourself when everyone else has no problem spotting it miles away. Obama criticized surveillance then when coming to power he commited surveillance. TotalBiscuit criticised the lack of region-lock and when coming to power (lol) did not region-lock.... wait... he didn't have the power to region lock. The mental gymnastics you're having to go through to reach the conclusion that I'm somehow doing the very thing I'm criticising, which as a team-owner not a tournament provider is literally impossible (and I'm actually like the only tournament operator who IS region-locking his tournaments) are olympic level. I'd give you a solid 9 if you hadn't botched the landing. Let's repeat for the class. Criticising a tournament for lack of region lock while having your Korean players play in it is not hypocrisy, it is not double-standards and it is not ethically questionable. It is not a region-locked tournament. I might as well be sending them to Dreamhack, it'd have the exact same effect. They're all non-region locked events, there is currently no difference. Why am I not criticising other tournaments? Well gee that's not exactly a hard one, maybe it's because WCS is the dominant weekly format whereas all these other events are weekend warrior or online. The entire SC2 scene now revolves around WCS, everyone else has to play musical chairs with them in time to the music or be left out in the cold. WCS dictates how this scene now operates and has the biggest influence by far. Why would I criticize other tournaments? It's not their job to stimulate the regional scenes (yet there are plenty of them that do anyway btw, especially in Europe). It is WCS job and it's failing at it. The more I speak to you the more I'm convinced you're grasping at straws to desperately try and resolve some weird cognitive dissonance stuff in your head. If I was so bad at this whole debate thing, as you say. My post would not have gotten your attention.
Ahh yes the good old housefly fallacy. "I'm good at this because you're paying attention to me!". No, you're no more better at holding my attention than a housefly is. It has my attention until I squash it, not because it has anything worthwhile to teach me. Also the assumption that making you see the error of your ways is the goal of this post and discussion. It isn't, you'll never convince someone on the internet that they're wrong. The aim of an argument online is to convince everyone else watching that the opposition is wrong, to discredit them in the eyes of the community. So far so good, since literally nobody here is agreeing with you so far.
Everything else in your post was previously debunked, so you're wasting your time repeating it. See original post for counterargument to the whole "if your players weren't there" speculation. See previous definitions of hypocrisy and explanations as to why you're using the term incorrectly as well as reasoning why other tournaments are not comparable to WCS.
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On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Creator of the game and multi-national billion dollar developer/publisher in spending more money than some British guy working out of a home office shocker. I'm actually beginning to see what your agenda is. It's not actually against me, it's in defense of Blizzard and you're shuffling the logic and facts around to fit with that defense. Well let me stop you right there. You're not Blizzards PR guy.
If what blizzard is doing is so wrong and you work with them often, isn't it more logical for you to talk to them privately? Why all the circus? It just comes off as you trying to capitalize on their mistakes, or on what some fans view as their mistakes, so that people will identify themselves with you. Seems a little backstabby to take advantage of the negative public opinion of your occasional employer/business partner. Specially when you continue to work with them.
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On November 15 2013 13:59 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:54 MaxiTB wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:
Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Wow, you have actually no idea what's going on ... never watched any of his videos or State of the Game ? No, I have not. I do not have time to watch all his videos that are not very publicized. I do know, however, that he has been extremely vocal about WCS and those have gotten the most attention. Therefore, I'm inclined to reach the conclusion that he has criticized other tournaments far less.
See, my point is, you are accusing someone publicly of something, but you have no idea what this person said about this topic in the past. I recommend you watch at least the State of the Game episode with TB about WCS before you jump to conclusions.
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You claim that you are for region lock(while enjoying the publicity your videos and other medium got you), yet you sent your players to WCS AM, knowing that it would deprive of regional player's exposure within WCS AM. You proclaim that you can not legally tell the players where they can play. This is true, but you supplied the funds to send them to WCS AM. Many Korean players want to play in WCS AM, but do not because their teams won't supply the funds. Therefore, while you MIGHT not have told them to play in WCS AM, you were complacent as your sponsors and you(Youtube), are based in foreign scenes.
How does taking advantage of a broken system remove his right to say that the system is broken?
If the Axiom guys hadn't decided to play in WCS AM, it wouldn't be North American players receiving the prize money that they won. It would be other Koreans. They were looking out for themselves, which is the smartest thing to do in a scene where many players don't get payed a salary, and receive zero monetary compensation other than prize money. I'd bet you that most of the Koreans who lacked the finances to send them selves to play in WCS AM would have done so in a heartbeat, had they been on a team with the means to send them. The Axiom players had those means, so they took advantage of it.
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On November 15 2013 14:26 Disco.stu. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Creator of the game and multi-national billion dollar developer/publisher in spending more money than some British guy working out of a home office shocker. I'm actually beginning to see what your agenda is. It's not actually against me, it's in defense of Blizzard and you're shuffling the logic and facts around to fit with that defense. Well let me stop you right there. You're not Blizzards PR guy. If what blizzard is doing is so wrong and you work with them often, isn't it more logical for you to talk to them privately? Why all the circus? It just comes off as you trying to capitalize on their mistakes, or on what some fans view as their mistakes, so that people will identify themselves with you. Seems a little backstabby to take advantage of the negative public opinion of your occasional employer/business partner. Specially when you continue to work with them.
Blizzard is not my employer, I have no obligation to them outside of the bounds of the event contracts they give me as an independent contractor. You make the assumption that I have not talked to them privately. Ask me, or indeed any of the major team owners how much we've actually talked to Blizzard about this issue in private. Answer is a shitload.
Asking someone with some insight to share to stop talking publicly when the rest of the community is free to bleet away about things they don't understand is counterproductive. My entire job relies on getting my opinion out there, that's what I'm paid to do. I've resisted the urge (and advice from others) to stop engaging with the community because I believe eventually, that with enough information and insight, they can become better. That won't stop.
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On November 15 2013 14:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:20 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 14:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:17 Junho.C wrote:
[quote]
I added this, so consider this as well:
Also, you may now defend your team as not America-based. You have previously said that your team is America based when your team first competed in WCS AM. SC2 community also consider your team as American team, as well.
Also, there was no misconception about the clear fact that you have criticized WCS system for a long time, yet your team and players have taken advantage of the format and competed in WCS AM for more exposure. This is the obvious thing to do in a business stand point, but you should not criticize the system that your team and players are exploiting.
Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting? Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works. Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey! I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name. I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama. People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me. Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position. It had actually 0 effect, as you were hired by Blizzard to cast Hearthstone at Blizzcon. I only used President Obama as an example as he is the one the people will most recognize. While he criticized the surveillance of citizens and allies, he has done precisely the thing he criticized after he became the president. Similar to how you criticized the non region locked system of WCS, yet your team took advantage of it and used it once WCS started. Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Oh man you are so bad at this whole debate thing. Your false equivalency is so glaring I'm shocked you can't see it yourself when everyone else has no problem spotting it miles away. Obama criticized surveillance then when coming to power he commited surveillance. TotalBiscuit criticised the lack of region-lock and when coming to power (lol) did not region-lock.... wait... he didn't have the power to region lock. The mental gymnastics you're having to go through to reach the conclusion that I'm somehow doing the very thing I'm criticising, which as a team-owner not a tournament provider is literally impossible (and I'm actually like the only tournament operator who IS region-locking his tournaments) are olympic level. I'd give you a solid 9 if you hadn't botched the landing. Let's repeat for the class. Criticising a tournament for lack of region lock while having your Korean players play in it is not hypocrisy, it is not double-standards and it is not ethically questionable. It is not a region-locked tournament. I might as well be sending them to Dreamhack, it'd have the exact same effect. They're all non-region locked events, there is currently no difference. Why am I not criticising other tournaments? Well gee that's not exactly a hard one, maybe it's because WCS is the dominant weekly format whereas all these other events are weekend warrior or online. The entire SC2 scene now revolves around WCS, everyone else has to play musical chairs with them in time to the music or be left out in the cold. WCS dictates how this scene now operates and has the biggest influence by far. Why would I criticize other tournaments? It's not their job to stimulate the regional scenes (yet there are plenty of them that do anyway btw, especially in Europe). It is WCS job and it's failing at it. The more I speak to you the more I'm convinced you're grasping at straws to desperately try and resolve some weird cognitive dissonance stuff in your head. If I was so bad at this whole debate thing, as you say. My post would not have gotten your attention. Ahh yes the good old housefly fallacy. "I'm good at this because you're paying attention to me!". No, you're no more better at holding my attention than a housefly is. It has my attention until I squash it, not because it has anything worthwhile to teach me. Also the assumption that making you see the error of your ways is the goal of this post and discussion. It isn't, you'll never convince someone on the internet that they're wrong. The aim of an argument online is to convince everyone else watching that the opposition is wrong, to discredit them in the eyes of the community. So far so good, since literally nobody here is agreeing with you so far. Everything else in your post was previously debunked, so you're wasting your time repeating it. See original post for counterargument to the whole "if your players weren't there" speculation. See previous definitions of hypocrisy and explanations as to why you're using the term incorrectly as well as reasoning why other tournaments are not comparable to WCS.
How about you respond to what I write without resulting to a condescending manner? All you do is make your argument weaker. Few people here may agree with me here because I'm not a known member on TL and you are quite well known. But I'm sure there are some less vocal people who do agree. Many people just jump on the band wagon because you are a famous personality. You will find that many people on reddit would agree with me, which was why my post was able to catch your attention instead of being downvoted to oblivion.
If everything in the post was debunked, why don't you tell me why? I've read your post and I can't see a clear point that goes against what I wrote. That's why I wrote it in the first place.
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"WHY WON'T YOU LET ME LOVE YOU?"
Gee, I really wonder why TB.
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This post hast nothing to do with the current debate, but just posting to say I'm looking forward to shoutcraft 
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On November 15 2013 14:34 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 14:20 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 14:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting?
Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works.
Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey!
I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name. I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama. People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me. Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position. It had actually 0 effect, as you were hired by Blizzard to cast Hearthstone at Blizzcon. I only used President Obama as an example as he is the one the people will most recognize. While he criticized the surveillance of citizens and allies, he has done precisely the thing he criticized after he became the president. Similar to how you criticized the non region locked system of WCS, yet your team took advantage of it and used it once WCS started. Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Oh man you are so bad at this whole debate thing. Your false equivalency is so glaring I'm shocked you can't see it yourself when everyone else has no problem spotting it miles away. Obama criticized surveillance then when coming to power he commited surveillance. TotalBiscuit criticised the lack of region-lock and when coming to power (lol) did not region-lock.... wait... he didn't have the power to region lock. The mental gymnastics you're having to go through to reach the conclusion that I'm somehow doing the very thing I'm criticising, which as a team-owner not a tournament provider is literally impossible (and I'm actually like the only tournament operator who IS region-locking his tournaments) are olympic level. I'd give you a solid 9 if you hadn't botched the landing. Let's repeat for the class. Criticising a tournament for lack of region lock while having your Korean players play in it is not hypocrisy, it is not double-standards and it is not ethically questionable. It is not a region-locked tournament. I might as well be sending them to Dreamhack, it'd have the exact same effect. They're all non-region locked events, there is currently no difference. Why am I not criticising other tournaments? Well gee that's not exactly a hard one, maybe it's because WCS is the dominant weekly format whereas all these other events are weekend warrior or online. The entire SC2 scene now revolves around WCS, everyone else has to play musical chairs with them in time to the music or be left out in the cold. WCS dictates how this scene now operates and has the biggest influence by far. Why would I criticize other tournaments? It's not their job to stimulate the regional scenes (yet there are plenty of them that do anyway btw, especially in Europe). It is WCS job and it's failing at it. The more I speak to you the more I'm convinced you're grasping at straws to desperately try and resolve some weird cognitive dissonance stuff in your head. If I was so bad at this whole debate thing, as you say. My post would not have gotten your attention. Ahh yes the good old housefly fallacy. "I'm good at this because you're paying attention to me!". No, you're no more better at holding my attention than a housefly is. It has my attention until I squash it, not because it has anything worthwhile to teach me. Also the assumption that making you see the error of your ways is the goal of this post and discussion. It isn't, you'll never convince someone on the internet that they're wrong. The aim of an argument online is to convince everyone else watching that the opposition is wrong, to discredit them in the eyes of the community. So far so good, since literally nobody here is agreeing with you so far. Everything else in your post was previously debunked, so you're wasting your time repeating it. See original post for counterargument to the whole "if your players weren't there" speculation. See previous definitions of hypocrisy and explanations as to why you're using the term incorrectly as well as reasoning why other tournaments are not comparable to WCS. How about you respond to what I write without resulting to a condescending manner? All you do is make your argument weaker. Few people here may agree with me here because I'm not a known member on TL and you are quite well known. But I'm sure there are some less vocal people who do agree. Many people just jump on the band wagon because you are a famous personality. You will find that many people on reddit would agree with me, which was why my post was able to catch your attention instead of being downvoted to oblivion. If everything in the post was debunked, why don't you tell me why? I've read your post and I can't see a clear point that goes against what I wrote. That's why I wrote it in the first place.
your not nearly as good at making arguments as you think you are. your supposed "points" are giving me a headache
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Korea (South)11232 Posts
Don Axiom in his fight against the SC2 Community Windmills
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZT6oztF.jpg)
Original
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On November 15 2013 14:34 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 14:20 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 14:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting?
Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works.
Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey!
I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name. I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama. People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me. Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position. It had actually 0 effect, as you were hired by Blizzard to cast Hearthstone at Blizzcon. I only used President Obama as an example as he is the one the people will most recognize. While he criticized the surveillance of citizens and allies, he has done precisely the thing he criticized after he became the president. Similar to how you criticized the non region locked system of WCS, yet your team took advantage of it and used it once WCS started. Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Oh man you are so bad at this whole debate thing. Your false equivalency is so glaring I'm shocked you can't see it yourself when everyone else has no problem spotting it miles away. Obama criticized surveillance then when coming to power he commited surveillance. TotalBiscuit criticised the lack of region-lock and when coming to power (lol) did not region-lock.... wait... he didn't have the power to region lock. The mental gymnastics you're having to go through to reach the conclusion that I'm somehow doing the very thing I'm criticising, which as a team-owner not a tournament provider is literally impossible (and I'm actually like the only tournament operator who IS region-locking his tournaments) are olympic level. I'd give you a solid 9 if you hadn't botched the landing. Let's repeat for the class. Criticising a tournament for lack of region lock while having your Korean players play in it is not hypocrisy, it is not double-standards and it is not ethically questionable. It is not a region-locked tournament. I might as well be sending them to Dreamhack, it'd have the exact same effect. They're all non-region locked events, there is currently no difference. Why am I not criticising other tournaments? Well gee that's not exactly a hard one, maybe it's because WCS is the dominant weekly format whereas all these other events are weekend warrior or online. The entire SC2 scene now revolves around WCS, everyone else has to play musical chairs with them in time to the music or be left out in the cold. WCS dictates how this scene now operates and has the biggest influence by far. Why would I criticize other tournaments? It's not their job to stimulate the regional scenes (yet there are plenty of them that do anyway btw, especially in Europe). It is WCS job and it's failing at it. The more I speak to you the more I'm convinced you're grasping at straws to desperately try and resolve some weird cognitive dissonance stuff in your head. If I was so bad at this whole debate thing, as you say. My post would not have gotten your attention. Ahh yes the good old housefly fallacy. "I'm good at this because you're paying attention to me!". No, you're no more better at holding my attention than a housefly is. It has my attention until I squash it, not because it has anything worthwhile to teach me. Also the assumption that making you see the error of your ways is the goal of this post and discussion. It isn't, you'll never convince someone on the internet that they're wrong. The aim of an argument online is to convince everyone else watching that the opposition is wrong, to discredit them in the eyes of the community. So far so good, since literally nobody here is agreeing with you so far. Everything else in your post was previously debunked, so you're wasting your time repeating it. See original post for counterargument to the whole "if your players weren't there" speculation. See previous definitions of hypocrisy and explanations as to why you're using the term incorrectly as well as reasoning why other tournaments are not comparable to WCS. How about you respond to what I write without resulting to a condescending manner?
Well it's mostly because you're awful and horribly accusatory. Maybe if you hadn't thrown out wild accusations from the outset you'd have been treated with respect.
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TotalBiscuit, i have to admit that you have earned a new fan. Its refreshing to listen to someone who knows wtf is up
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On November 15 2013 14:34 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 14:20 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 14:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:18 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
Why should I not criticize the system that our team and players are exploiting?
Give me one good reason. Your arguments seem nothing more than purely faux-academic, in the vein of those that think you win arguments by earning fallacy points. That's not how the real world works.
Also feel free to find a quote where I said my team was American. I certainly don't remember that, but then I have dyspraxia induced memory problems so hey!
I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact. There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument. Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name. I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama. People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me. Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position. It had actually 0 effect, as you were hired by Blizzard to cast Hearthstone at Blizzcon. I only used President Obama as an example as he is the one the people will most recognize. While he criticized the surveillance of citizens and allies, he has done precisely the thing he criticized after he became the president. Similar to how you criticized the non region locked system of WCS, yet your team took advantage of it and used it once WCS started. Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Oh man you are so bad at this whole debate thing. Your false equivalency is so glaring I'm shocked you can't see it yourself when everyone else has no problem spotting it miles away. Obama criticized surveillance then when coming to power he commited surveillance. TotalBiscuit criticised the lack of region-lock and when coming to power (lol) did not region-lock.... wait... he didn't have the power to region lock. The mental gymnastics you're having to go through to reach the conclusion that I'm somehow doing the very thing I'm criticising, which as a team-owner not a tournament provider is literally impossible (and I'm actually like the only tournament operator who IS region-locking his tournaments) are olympic level. I'd give you a solid 9 if you hadn't botched the landing. Let's repeat for the class. Criticising a tournament for lack of region lock while having your Korean players play in it is not hypocrisy, it is not double-standards and it is not ethically questionable. It is not a region-locked tournament. I might as well be sending them to Dreamhack, it'd have the exact same effect. They're all non-region locked events, there is currently no difference. Why am I not criticising other tournaments? Well gee that's not exactly a hard one, maybe it's because WCS is the dominant weekly format whereas all these other events are weekend warrior or online. The entire SC2 scene now revolves around WCS, everyone else has to play musical chairs with them in time to the music or be left out in the cold. WCS dictates how this scene now operates and has the biggest influence by far. Why would I criticize other tournaments? It's not their job to stimulate the regional scenes (yet there are plenty of them that do anyway btw, especially in Europe). It is WCS job and it's failing at it. The more I speak to you the more I'm convinced you're grasping at straws to desperately try and resolve some weird cognitive dissonance stuff in your head. If I was so bad at this whole debate thing, as you say. My post would not have gotten your attention. Ahh yes the good old housefly fallacy. "I'm good at this because you're paying attention to me!". No, you're no more better at holding my attention than a housefly is. It has my attention until I squash it, not because it has anything worthwhile to teach me. Also the assumption that making you see the error of your ways is the goal of this post and discussion. It isn't, you'll never convince someone on the internet that they're wrong. The aim of an argument online is to convince everyone else watching that the opposition is wrong, to discredit them in the eyes of the community. So far so good, since literally nobody here is agreeing with you so far. Everything else in your post was previously debunked, so you're wasting your time repeating it. See original post for counterargument to the whole "if your players weren't there" speculation. See previous definitions of hypocrisy and explanations as to why you're using the term incorrectly as well as reasoning why other tournaments are not comparable to WCS. How about you respond to what I write without resulting to a condescending manner? All you do is make your argument weaker. Few people here may agree with me here because I'm not a known member on TL and you are quite well known. But I'm sure there are some less vocal people who do agree. Many people just jump on the band wagon because you are a famous personality. You will find that many people on reddit would agree with me, which was why my post was able to catch your attention instead of being downvoted to oblivion. If everything in the post was debunked, why don't you tell me why? I've read your post and I can't see a clear point that goes against what I wrote. That's why I wrote it in the first place.
No not really, if you took the names and post counts away I still wouldn't take your position seriously.
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On November 15 2013 14:29 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:26 Disco.stu. wrote:On November 15 2013 13:12 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Creator of the game and multi-national billion dollar developer/publisher in spending more money than some British guy working out of a home office shocker. I'm actually beginning to see what your agenda is. It's not actually against me, it's in defense of Blizzard and you're shuffling the logic and facts around to fit with that defense. Well let me stop you right there. You're not Blizzards PR guy. If what blizzard is doing is so wrong and you work with them often, isn't it more logical for you to talk to them privately? Why all the circus? It just comes off as you trying to capitalize on their mistakes, or on what some fans view as their mistakes, so that people will identify themselves with you. Seems a little backstabby to take advantage of the negative public opinion of your occasional employer/business partner. Specially when you continue to work with them. Blizzard is not my employer, I have no obligation to them outside of the bounds of the event contracts they give me as an independent contractor. You make the assumption that I have not talked to them privately. Ask me, or indeed any of the major team owners how much we've actually talked to Blizzard about this issue in private. Answer is a shitload. Asking someone with some insight to share to stop talking publicly when the rest of the community is free to bleet away about things they don't understand is counterproductive. My entire job relies on getting my opinion out there, that's what I'm paid to do. I've resisted the urge (and advice from others) to stop engaging with the community because I believe eventually, that with enough information and insight, they can become better. That won't stop.
Well, I didn't ask you to stop talking publicly, that is your decision, and talking about relevant things is, like you said, your job. I just find the act of publicly badmouthing institutions that one has a business relationship with, very strange (even if that relationship is not an employer-employee thing). You know? It's just not something I would do. Maybe you could change your message a tad so if doesn't feel so backstabby? I don't know, just some feedback from me. At any rate, thank you for addressing my post.
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On November 15 2013 14:43 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:34 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 14:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 14:20 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 14:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:27 Junho.C wrote:
[quote]
I can't easily find a quote from hundreds, if not thousands of messages and comments you've made since then. However, the public awareness of this should suffice as a support for this. If I'm the only one remembering it, the post I've made would not have such an impact.
There's no reason why you shouldn't criticize a system you are exploiting, but it is very hypocritical in others' perspective. It's similar to a religious zealot who preach people, yet he does the things that he preaches against. You lose credibility of your argument.
Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all. I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name. I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama. People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me. Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position. It had actually 0 effect, as you were hired by Blizzard to cast Hearthstone at Blizzcon. I only used President Obama as an example as he is the one the people will most recognize. While he criticized the surveillance of citizens and allies, he has done precisely the thing he criticized after he became the president. Similar to how you criticized the non region locked system of WCS, yet your team took advantage of it and used it once WCS started. Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Oh man you are so bad at this whole debate thing. Your false equivalency is so glaring I'm shocked you can't see it yourself when everyone else has no problem spotting it miles away. Obama criticized surveillance then when coming to power he commited surveillance. TotalBiscuit criticised the lack of region-lock and when coming to power (lol) did not region-lock.... wait... he didn't have the power to region lock. The mental gymnastics you're having to go through to reach the conclusion that I'm somehow doing the very thing I'm criticising, which as a team-owner not a tournament provider is literally impossible (and I'm actually like the only tournament operator who IS region-locking his tournaments) are olympic level. I'd give you a solid 9 if you hadn't botched the landing. Let's repeat for the class. Criticising a tournament for lack of region lock while having your Korean players play in it is not hypocrisy, it is not double-standards and it is not ethically questionable. It is not a region-locked tournament. I might as well be sending them to Dreamhack, it'd have the exact same effect. They're all non-region locked events, there is currently no difference. Why am I not criticising other tournaments? Well gee that's not exactly a hard one, maybe it's because WCS is the dominant weekly format whereas all these other events are weekend warrior or online. The entire SC2 scene now revolves around WCS, everyone else has to play musical chairs with them in time to the music or be left out in the cold. WCS dictates how this scene now operates and has the biggest influence by far. Why would I criticize other tournaments? It's not their job to stimulate the regional scenes (yet there are plenty of them that do anyway btw, especially in Europe). It is WCS job and it's failing at it. The more I speak to you the more I'm convinced you're grasping at straws to desperately try and resolve some weird cognitive dissonance stuff in your head. If I was so bad at this whole debate thing, as you say. My post would not have gotten your attention. Ahh yes the good old housefly fallacy. "I'm good at this because you're paying attention to me!". No, you're no more better at holding my attention than a housefly is. It has my attention until I squash it, not because it has anything worthwhile to teach me. Also the assumption that making you see the error of your ways is the goal of this post and discussion. It isn't, you'll never convince someone on the internet that they're wrong. The aim of an argument online is to convince everyone else watching that the opposition is wrong, to discredit them in the eyes of the community. So far so good, since literally nobody here is agreeing with you so far. Everything else in your post was previously debunked, so you're wasting your time repeating it. See original post for counterargument to the whole "if your players weren't there" speculation. See previous definitions of hypocrisy and explanations as to why you're using the term incorrectly as well as reasoning why other tournaments are not comparable to WCS. How about you respond to what I write without resulting to a condescending manner? Well it's mostly because you're awful and horribly accusatory. Maybe if you hadn't thrown out wild accusations from the outset you'd have been treated with respect.
I wouldn't have been the first person who accused you of something. Your incident with TaKe comes to mind... I can't really recall anyone who accused you of something that you treated with respect. Even someone like TaKe who has done so much for the scene.
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On November 15 2013 14:49 Junho.C wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 14:43 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 14:34 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 14:26 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 14:20 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 14:07 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:53 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:47 TotalBiscuit wrote:On November 15 2013 13:45 Junho.C wrote:On November 15 2013 13:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:
[quote]
Their perspective is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about it and if you can't convince people of that with evidence and reasoning then they're not worthy of your time at all.
I think once people get past college age, the realise that any specific ideas and arguments they had regarding "hypocrisy" are purely academic and nothing more than that. There is no scoring system for arguments, you don't get to win by just pulling out a book of fallacies and declaring victory and that's even if you could prove my attitude is hypocritical, which it isn't. Do you consider the millions of people's perspective bull shit? Many news articles have criticized president's Obama for taking actions that goes against the statements and promises before he became president. That is just among countless examples throughout history. Yes, those millions of people are past college age and quite educated. I do support what you are doing to give exposure to the NA players, but your singling out Blizzard and WCS which has helped much to develop the scene while you are taking advantage of it is questionable at best. Especially when all the major tournaments in SC2 eSports have not region locked their tournaments while having the name of the region in their tournament name. I am flabbergasted but not surprised that you would break out a ridiculous comparison like President Obama. People criticized his actions because he made promises he didn't keep (and or did the opposite of). I did not create WCS and have little if any power to change it. Pulling my players from WCS America would do precisely dick. Jeopardising my position as a caster by publicly criticising WCS on the other hand not only has some effect but is actually as a risk to me. Come back to me when you take risks for your beliefs. Then you might have a new appreciation for my position. It had actually 0 effect, as you were hired by Blizzard to cast Hearthstone at Blizzcon. I only used President Obama as an example as he is the one the people will most recognize. While he criticized the surveillance of citizens and allies, he has done precisely the thing he criticized after he became the president. Similar to how you criticized the non region locked system of WCS, yet your team took advantage of it and used it once WCS started. Why have you not addressed my point about the other major tournaments doing similar things long before WCS started? You have not criticized them for not region locking as far as I'm aware. Oh man you are so bad at this whole debate thing. Your false equivalency is so glaring I'm shocked you can't see it yourself when everyone else has no problem spotting it miles away. Obama criticized surveillance then when coming to power he commited surveillance. TotalBiscuit criticised the lack of region-lock and when coming to power (lol) did not region-lock.... wait... he didn't have the power to region lock. The mental gymnastics you're having to go through to reach the conclusion that I'm somehow doing the very thing I'm criticising, which as a team-owner not a tournament provider is literally impossible (and I'm actually like the only tournament operator who IS region-locking his tournaments) are olympic level. I'd give you a solid 9 if you hadn't botched the landing. Let's repeat for the class. Criticising a tournament for lack of region lock while having your Korean players play in it is not hypocrisy, it is not double-standards and it is not ethically questionable. It is not a region-locked tournament. I might as well be sending them to Dreamhack, it'd have the exact same effect. They're all non-region locked events, there is currently no difference. Why am I not criticising other tournaments? Well gee that's not exactly a hard one, maybe it's because WCS is the dominant weekly format whereas all these other events are weekend warrior or online. The entire SC2 scene now revolves around WCS, everyone else has to play musical chairs with them in time to the music or be left out in the cold. WCS dictates how this scene now operates and has the biggest influence by far. Why would I criticize other tournaments? It's not their job to stimulate the regional scenes (yet there are plenty of them that do anyway btw, especially in Europe). It is WCS job and it's failing at it. The more I speak to you the more I'm convinced you're grasping at straws to desperately try and resolve some weird cognitive dissonance stuff in your head. If I was so bad at this whole debate thing, as you say. My post would not have gotten your attention. Ahh yes the good old housefly fallacy. "I'm good at this because you're paying attention to me!". No, you're no more better at holding my attention than a housefly is. It has my attention until I squash it, not because it has anything worthwhile to teach me. Also the assumption that making you see the error of your ways is the goal of this post and discussion. It isn't, you'll never convince someone on the internet that they're wrong. The aim of an argument online is to convince everyone else watching that the opposition is wrong, to discredit them in the eyes of the community. So far so good, since literally nobody here is agreeing with you so far. Everything else in your post was previously debunked, so you're wasting your time repeating it. See original post for counterargument to the whole "if your players weren't there" speculation. See previous definitions of hypocrisy and explanations as to why you're using the term incorrectly as well as reasoning why other tournaments are not comparable to WCS. How about you respond to what I write without resulting to a condescending manner? Well it's mostly because you're awful and horribly accusatory. Maybe if you hadn't thrown out wild accusations from the outset you'd have been treated with respect. I wouldn't have been the first person who accused you of something. Your incident with TaKe comes to mind... I can't really recall anyone who accused you of something that you treated with respect. Even someone like TaKe who has done so much for the scene.
Didn't take threaten to sue his wife? if i was TB, i'd be upset as well.
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EPT
