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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 17 2012 09:54 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 09:52 Blazinghand wrote:On November 17 2012 09:51 debears wrote:On November 17 2012 09:48 Blazinghand wrote:On November 17 2012 09:47 debears wrote:On November 17 2012 09:42 Blazinghand wrote:On November 17 2012 09:41 debears wrote:On November 17 2012 09:40 Blazinghand wrote:On November 17 2012 09:40 debears wrote:On November 17 2012 09:39 Blazinghand wrote:
[quote]
I claimed halfway through D1, that's not "so fucking early" that's "just right" and you (should) know that.
JK CLAIM HALFWAY THROUGH DAY 1?????? Wow. wow. wow. Alright I'm down to lynch BH guys I'm confused. Are you being sarcastic? No. You were not under real threat halfway through day 1 and you claimed. That's so dumb as a jk. So fucking dumb Wait, did you not already know the timing and nature of my roleclaim? What? ._. I know the timing of your fucking claim. I knew it made no sense from either perspective. I didn't want to lynch an uncontested jk claim d1 - that's fucking retarded. But honestly, you keep saying it was necessary instead of manning the fuck up and saying your play was just horrible. Your claim was not forced. You were not under real threat. 3 votes midway through d1 =/= real threat I made the right call, and I stand by it. And if you think my defense of my claim is somehow scummy, you need to explain how "not manning up" is scummy. I'm 100% serious, I want your thought process on this, in detail. You made the right call by making yourself fucking useless the whole game if you are jk? We can't confirm you in any way shape or form. If it gets to LYLO and you're alive we're fucked if you are jk. This is so dumb. And it's not necessarily scummy. It's not necessarily townie. But idk why you feel like you need to vindicate the play of your claim if you are jk. Ugh. ##UnvoteI hate you right now BH  I'm sorry. I respect that you thought it out and unvoted me even though you would viscerally LIKE to lynch me. Marv was the same-- he put his brain ahead of his gut. Alright. I am not coming back to the thread tonight. I'm gonna look over day 1 cuz right now this is pointless arguing with you
We can talk about stuff other than my JK claim, too. What are your thoughts on ZB and his position on the Hapa wagon?
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i dont like how zboson posted some suspicions on me and others and has not pushed them at all nor has he pushed the other people he was suspicious of. Seems like he dosen't care.
also
On November 16 2012 13:02 Z-BosoN wrote:I´ve been a bit busy today, and will be so tomorrow as well. I´m down with a SnB lynch right now. Tomorrow I´m going to check thrawn´s filter (djodref can´t really do much at this point...) and see if I still think so, when I find time. Anyways, checking BH is the stupidest shit you can do, whoever said that above. Odds that he is scum are really low right now. Like I said, just lynch the people on my wagon and youll do just fine. (was right about one of them already. Debears, update the scoreboard will you  ) Also, to those of you who think I´m scum, you are out of your fucking mind. That´s about it. ##Vote SnB
says hes going to be busy next two days but is go to check thraws now djo filter( lol wat). Plus he then didn't do it anyways.
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On November 17 2012 09:59 iamperfection wrote:i dont like how zboson posted some suspicions on me and others and has not pushed them at all nor has he pushed the other people he was suspicious of. Seems like he dosen't care.
also Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 13:02 Z-BosoN wrote:I´ve been a bit busy today, and will be so tomorrow as well. I´m down with a SnB lynch right now. Tomorrow I´m going to check thrawn´s filter (djodref can´t really do much at this point...) and see if I still think so, when I find time. Anyways, checking BH is the stupidest shit you can do, whoever said that above. Odds that he is scum are really low right now. Like I said, just lynch the people on my wagon and youll do just fine. (was right about one of them already. Debears, update the scoreboard will you ) Also, to those of you who think I´m scum, you are out of your fucking mind. That´s about it. ##Vote SnB says hes going to be busy next two days but is go to check thraws now djo filter( lol wat). Plus he then didn't do it anyways.
That is exactly his scum meta oh perfect one.
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On November 17 2012 10:01 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 09:59 iamperfection wrote:i dont like how zboson posted some suspicions on me and others and has not pushed them at all nor has he pushed the other people he was suspicious of. Seems like he dosen't care.
also On November 16 2012 13:02 Z-BosoN wrote:I´ve been a bit busy today, and will be so tomorrow as well. I´m down with a SnB lynch right now. Tomorrow I´m going to check thrawn´s filter (djodref can´t really do much at this point...) and see if I still think so, when I find time. Anyways, checking BH is the stupidest shit you can do, whoever said that above. Odds that he is scum are really low right now. Like I said, just lynch the people on my wagon and youll do just fine. (was right about one of them already. Debears, update the scoreboard will you ) Also, to those of you who think I´m scum, you are out of your fucking mind. That´s about it. ##Vote SnB says hes going to be busy next two days but is go to check thraws now djo filter( lol wat). Plus he then didn't do it anyways. That is exactly his scum meta oh perfect one.
thank you for addressing me correctly.
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Debears. Please respond to the only constructive posting in the thread so far. I.E. NOT the JK claim or Blazinghand.
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On November 17 2012 10:02 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:01 DarthPunk wrote:On November 17 2012 09:59 iamperfection wrote:i dont like how zboson posted some suspicions on me and others and has not pushed them at all nor has he pushed the other people he was suspicious of. Seems like he dosen't care.
also On November 16 2012 13:02 Z-BosoN wrote:I´ve been a bit busy today, and will be so tomorrow as well. I´m down with a SnB lynch right now. Tomorrow I´m going to check thrawn´s filter (djodref can´t really do much at this point...) and see if I still think so, when I find time. Anyways, checking BH is the stupidest shit you can do, whoever said that above. Odds that he is scum are really low right now. Like I said, just lynch the people on my wagon and youll do just fine. (was right about one of them already. Debears, update the scoreboard will you ) Also, to those of you who think I´m scum, you are out of your fucking mind. That´s about it. ##Vote SnB says hes going to be busy next two days but is go to check thraws now djo filter( lol wat). Plus he then didn't do it anyways. That is exactly his scum meta oh perfect one. thank you for addressing me correctly.
<3
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On November 17 2012 10:02 DarthPunk wrote:
Debears. Please respond to the only constructive posting in the thread so far. I.E. NOT the JK claim or Blazinghand.
DP, if you're referring to the we can't use Z-Bo's vote as a town tell I agree. It is plausible he was also scum and hapa tried to save him
Seriously, going to look at d1 now
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On November 17 2012 10:03 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:02 DarthPunk wrote:
Debears. Please respond to the only constructive posting in the thread so far. I.E. NOT the JK claim or Blazinghand. DP, if you're referring to the we can't use Z-Bo's vote as a town tell I agree. It is plausible he was also scum and hapa tried to save him Seriously, going to look at d1 now
That. And the fact that his play matches his scum meta perfectly. also look at his death posts in comparison to mine. What are the differences? which seem genuine and which seem polished?
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On November 17 2012 09:31 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 09:30 iamperfection wrote:On November 17 2012 09:27 Blazinghand wrote:On November 17 2012 09:22 strongandbig wrote:
And here's something else you're ignoring - your claim makes even less sense from a town point of view. You claimed early in day 1 when you had like three votes on you. If you were town, by doing this you would have unnecessarily ruined your effectiveness as a town power role.
My claim makes perfect sense. I was under heavy pressure, and they weren't listening to my arguments. I didn't want to be on the lynch table, and honestly any analysis and voting is infinitely more important than being a JK. The number one role of any blue player is to play like a VT-- the blue powers are just a bonus on top, especially in Normal games. The blue powers I used to avoid a shitty mislynch D1 and focus the discussion. And hey, it worked, too. On November 17 2012 09:22 strongandbig wrote:
The argument that your claim is "uncontested" is completely irrelevant. This is not an open setup. I mentioned this above. Your claim is also unverifiable, making it a good claim for scum.
It's not irrelevant. There's now town JKer counterclaiming me, and you can't just toss that out the window-- so far there is one blue claim other than myself, and that's all. I'm uncontested. On November 17 2012 09:22 strongandbig wrote:
The thing is, nothing about your behavior in this game resembles your town play. Your cases are terrible, your arguments are terrible, and your thread presence isn't constructive.
If you're gonna pull a meta argument, show me a damn game inw hich I act like this as scum, I double dog dare you On November 17 2012 09:22 strongandbig wrote:
And I don't have to "defeat" your argument about lynching Hapa. You did that yourself. how The fuck you were you were not under heavy pressure you have talked about this constantly. Your claim didnt make any sense and you knew it. Stop acting like you made some great play because you didn't. you are delusional. Do you not read your own coaching tips??????????? My claim was necessary. I played bad and was forced to claim, but the claim itself, given the circumstances, was the right call.
This is bullshit, and its been discussed ad nauseum. This post is a reminder that BH is my number 1 priority lynch pending night action resolution. I also don't want to lynch SnB.
##Unvote
There is only ONE way that any remaining anti-town factions KNOW who the other is:
Scum shot bulletproof SK and SK shot marv. (This assumes I'm actually a vig) That means that at best, there is a one-directional association case that could be made for the remaining players. 'Saving' or 'bussing' teammates no longer applies.
The only player cross gave anything on was BH. Hapa is too jumpy to get anything reliable out of. I think I can get behind Darth's WIFOM bomb theory regarding Z-Bo. I'm going to look through his meta to see if that pans out.
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On November 13 2012 09:10 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh, and as always, I endorse lynching the shit outta lurkers. Discuss.
Lol i can't believe we didn't catch this d1................
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Does anyone know the odds of a miller being in the setup with:
1) a jk/scum rb
2) a vig
3) a gf
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On November 17 2012 10:12 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:10 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh, and as always, I endorse lynching the shit outta lurkers. Discuss. Lol i can't believe we didn't catch this d1................
he has to say it he says it almost every game
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On November 17 2012 10:16 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:12 debears wrote:On November 13 2012 09:10 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh, and as always, I endorse lynching the shit outta lurkers. Discuss. Lol i can't believe we didn't catch this d1................ he has to say it he says it almost every game
But he didn't even take a whiff of the lurkers lol besides lightly pushing kickstart i think
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On November 14 2012 08:45 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 08:40 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah the ZB defense imo tells us more about iamp than it does about ZB-- but either way neither of them a good lynch today Yeah I'm looking at Thrawn and Kickstart atm. Thrawn's inactivity is pretty uncharacteristic of him so far. Kickstart as well dumped some suspicion on me and then peace'd out. I'm a bit more forgiving to Kickstart though as a first-time player. So let's get thrawn talking shall we? ##Vote Thrawn(Would love to hear from kickstart too, but more concerned with Thrawn atm)
he did actually he just didn't mention cross.
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On November 17 2012 10:15 debears wrote:
Does anyone know the odds of a miller being in the setup with:
1) a jk/scum rb
2) a vig
3) a gf
I don't feel like crunching actual numbers, but that setup would only require:
MVD ####
M=mason/miller. 1 M usually means innocent child, but that was replaced by miller.
V=Vig - All are single shot, so this roll is questionable as to how it gets handed out
D=Doctor/Jailkeeper
4 "unknown" rolls, however, some may need to be duplicates to actually generate the blue. Therefore I`d estimate an additional 2 blues in this game. As always setup speculation is tedious and not worth that much in the grand scheme of
things when playing a semi-open setup. I think we should leave it alone unless someone claims scum through attempted setup-based manipulation.
On November 17 2012 10:28 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 08:45 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 08:40 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah the ZB defense imo tells us more about iamp than it does about ZB-- but either way neither of them a good lynch today Yeah I'm looking at Thrawn and Kickstart atm. Thrawn's inactivity is pretty uncharacteristic of him so far. Kickstart as well dumped some suspicion on me and then peace'd out. I'm a bit more forgiving to Kickstart though as a first-time player. So let's get thrawn talking shall we? ##Vote Thrawn(Would love to hear from kickstart too, but more concerned with Thrawn atm) he did actually he just didn't mention cross.
That damn near clears djo as far as association cases go.
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EBWOP: I didn't really read debears' questions, I just went off what people have claimed this game.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 17 2012 10:01 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 09:59 iamperfection wrote:i dont like how zboson posted some suspicions on me and others and has not pushed them at all nor has he pushed the other people he was suspicious of. Seems like he dosen't care.
also On November 16 2012 13:02 Z-BosoN wrote:I´ve been a bit busy today, and will be so tomorrow as well. I´m down with a SnB lynch right now. Tomorrow I´m going to check thrawn´s filter (djodref can´t really do much at this point...) and see if I still think so, when I find time. Anyways, checking BH is the stupidest shit you can do, whoever said that above. Odds that he is scum are really low right now. Like I said, just lynch the people on my wagon and youll do just fine. (was right about one of them already. Debears, update the scoreboard will you ) Also, to those of you who think I´m scum, you are out of your fucking mind. That´s about it. ##Vote SnB says hes going to be busy next two days but is go to check thraws now djo filter( lol wat). Plus he then didn't do it anyways. That is exactly his scum meta oh perfect one.
This is correct.
Check his play in XXIV (scum): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495¤tpage=All
and contrast his play in GSL III (town): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&user=28495
In GSL III as town, ZB opens up with a post like this (link) heavy with analysis and with an FoS. He follows it up by reacting to other people's reactions to his case (link) 12 hours later and after some back and forths FoSes Austin (link) and follows it up with aggression and questioning of other players (link). What we observe is a player who doesn't let things drop and is willing to be aggressive in a sustained fashion against his lynch targets, and willing to question other people as a result of the discussion that happens.
Let's contrast his play in NMM XXIV. He starts with policy talk (link) and attacks SS (link) but does not follow it up-- he ignores SS afterwards and attacks two other players (link), making cases on them but voting a different player (link). This play sets up a lot of cases but doesn't follow through with them.
So I think we can characterize ZB's town meta as: attack a player, follow up, and develop reads from there. His scum meta is more like: attack several players at once, and avoid following up and getting into a protracted discussion or developing/pressing his case. He'll still have some follow-up to put a vote over an FoS, but generally what we see is less singleminded-ness and more setting himself up to easily get onto any wagon.
So how does ZB play this game? Well, he starts with a Miller claim but I'm not gonna say anything about that cause that's different than his position as the town game. His first real post votes debears (link) and ten minutes later he moves over to SnB: (link). What's important isn't his shift to SnB, but how he leaves off his Debears case:
On November 13 2012 10:13 Z-BosoN wrote:
Debears, I hope your posting improves throughout this game. Also, what do you mean by "that argument again?".
This isn't the ZB who pursues and develops reads, this is the ZB who wants to avoid commitment but set up for getting onto any wagon. What strikes me, though, is that he pivots away from both of his existing cases when he votes me here: (link). This is relevant because we see Z-B explicity state that
On November 14 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
It seems to me people are thinking too much of my posts, expecting some sort of brilliant day one cases. Disagreeing with my logic does not make me scum.
That should pretty much handle the vast chunk of shit I got the last few pages.
////
My votes on SnB and debears were more pressure votes, as if that wasn't pretty much clear.
This one on blazinghand, is not. I think he's the best lynch so far, as everything I've stated seem to point on him being scum.
##Unvote
##Vote Blazinghand
And I know I've said it before, but this kind of hopping around and looking for a wagon to stick to is scummy in general, and with the new meta support, I'm willing to say: it's scummy specifically for ZB as well. This is what he does, putting out several cases and not pursuing any of them with great depth. There IS a point in ZB's favor, though, and that's this: he follows up on his case against me (link) in a fairly aggressive fashion. It's worth noting, though, that a) he's still setting himself up for other wagons (link) and b) he immediately reacts to my blue claim with an unvote, uncritically accepting it just like Hapa did (link).
Combine that with his post voting Hopeless1: (link) we see the scum Z-B again. When town ZB makes a case it looks like this:
+ Show Spoiler +Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:22 Z-BosoN wrote:On a more serious note. Ok, gone over austin's filter. He seems a little scummy guys. His only read so far is an easy one in which he openly says that is a provocating vote. On October 21 2012 08:24 austinmcc wrote:
Realized just saying "Man, this guy hasn't said much" isn't going to do anything.
##Vote: vaderseven
Much of your posting is just about DP last night, and everyone seems to have concluded that DP is town because of how he explained/tried to explain himself. That was just easy activity and an easy way to make it look like you cared about something.
That applies to me too. We can all be suspicious of EVERYONE who has basically only been active for that.
drazak.
There was a lot of discussion about DP last night. In light of that discussion, do you still feel that your vote is on scum? If so, why?
If not, out of the players who were poking at DP tonight, who looks the scummiest in the way they interacted with DP?His other main post contains a ton of fluff and doesn't really conclude anything: On October 21 2012 08:02 austinmcc wrote:On October 21 2012 06:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
lol, my vote was a pre-game joke.
##Unvote
Let's not die guys. This game will take forever if it's this inactive.
Austin, you've played with Kei in liquid city. What do you make of him? I don't remember kei in LC tbh. I was mostly inactive D1, came back looking at those couple specific people, died before I had a good handle on the full game. Kei from Aperture 2 I feel like is a solid townie as far as being active, looking town, once the game starts. Not...the type of player who takes advantage of that, though? Basically was the towniest person in game, was going to get protection, but kind of let spammier people take over and direct the flow of the game, and noticed that that was happening (kei, your game was much more fun when we were scumhunting than claiming/solving the game bit). I expect some good and insightful posts from him, but I haven't seen him be particularly aggressive. I think we also played...rockband? And maybe another game? I'll have to look through. I don't have a big meta handle on keirathi, but I'm also not generally good at catching people via meta or even USING meta. I mainly focus on picking out odd questions, or questions that never got pursued. That seems to be when I'm most effective, and so I'm going to try and mine the thread hard for things that stick out.
Right now, and I haven't looked at his past play recently, but v7 is sticking out to me somewhat. The DP stuff was EASY to mine for activity last night, poke at it poke at it poke at it. And very safe too, because the way he started to flop around felt townie, so you could attack attack attack and just say "Eh, his flopping around townie." A couple of us did that, but DP has almost only talked about his past games and the DP stuff last night. (AND THEN HE MAY HAVE SPOILED GSL, UNSURE, I AIN'T CLICKING THAT UNTIL I WATCH) There's nothing more than that to go on, but out of all the people who have some posts, his feel like there's the least in them.
Not relevant to anything that's happening, but spoilered for DP and so thread can see my thought process: + Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote:
So what you are saying is that me asking the only person in the thread at that point makes less sense than calling for a mass claim 30 mins into day one.
0_o I asked if you thought he was scum because of this On October 20 2012 13:20 DarthPunk wrote:
If there was even the slightest chance that draz was scum and would be less comfortable fake claiming it was a better play than the alternative IMO.
I am done with this. You don't agree. so be it.
If you didn't have any particular reason to believe draz was scum, then I was uncertain why you'd only ask HIM to roleclaim. The logic that this was a better play than not asking people would hold true for everyone, so if you were REALLY hanging your hat on "asking and making them claim VT is helpful" then you should have been asking EVERYONE, unless you had particular scumreads. That's why I ask, because that logic that you gave wasn't draz-specific, yet your question WAS draz-specific. There's a disconnect there, that I felt like would be addressed if you actually thought he was scum. I think asking ONE person this thing that you think is good to get answers to is weird, because you SHOULD be thinking it's good to ask every person in the game that. He's also being very non-committing in Drazak. I find this weird because it really depends on your opinion of what scum tend to do. Drazak said something that's either townie-looking or scummy-looking, depending on your view of it. It's way too passive to simply say "null read" on him. This makes me very suspicious of austin.On October 22 2012 00:17 austinmcc wrote:On October 22 2012 00:13 DarthPunk wrote:On October 22 2012 00:05 marvellosity wrote:
DP, is it your natural inclination, as scum, to say "let's lynch a townie!"? Or is your natural inclination to avoid saying anything like that at all costs? It is my natural inclination to want to lynch a townie because this ensures your survival for another day. VE knows this. That's why he looks at people who jump on a wagon like Draz did very closely. I even fell for it last game. It's your natural inclination to want to lynch a townie. Yes. It is NOT normal for you to say "Let's lynch a townie." There's a huge difference. You say, "This guy (and I don't want to tell you this, but he's totes town) looks scummy for x and y, I think we should vote him." You do not go, "Attention town, I think this guy is townie, let's lynch him." The vote on someone you explicitly say doesn't feel scummy is NOT good townie play. But it's NOT good scum play. Again, look at it from both sides. It's not that the vote makes no sense from a townie, it's that the vote makes no sense from either alignment. Therefore, you can't get a read off it; it's null. It's very unlike him to take this sort of stance. In both townie games I've played with him, he would madly accuse people of being scum, and I can't remember him being this impartial. ##FoS austin+ Show Spoiler +The stupid thing brits thing say was meant as a joke. Looking back at it, seems like it may have been a bit overboard. Sorry if someone has taken offense by this
Focused, developing off of previous play.
When scum ZB makes a case it looks like it has this game: multi-pronged, with concessions to other players and cases. When I began writing this case I didn't know what exactly I was going to find, diving into the dank pages of ZB's meta. His scum play in NMM XXIV is, admittedly, a bit older than his town play in GSL III. It's possible he had an opportunity to change since then-- I haven't found a newer scum game.
We do see some of his unfocused-ness in his Liquid City play, say in his case on VE (link). But like his normal town play, ZB Begins with an FoS then develops (link) into a vote (link) from there. ZB this game has not been playing like that this game. There have been no FoSes, no development of cases and getting of responses like in LC or GSL III.
This is not his town meta, not at all.
##unvote
##vote: Z-Boson
Let's get rid of him.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
"oh look blazinghand made a well-researched case based on meta clearly he's pretending to be town and play to his town meta so he must be-" NO STFU READ THE CASE
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EPT
