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On November 17 2012 10:32 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:15 debears wrote:
Does anyone know the odds of a miller being in the setup with:
1) a jk/scum rb
2) a vig
3) a gf I don't feel like crunching actual numbers, but that setup would only require: MVD #### M=mason/miller. 1 M usually means innocent child, but that was replaced by miller. V=Vig - All are single shot, so this roll is questionable as to how it gets handed out D=Doctor/Jailkeeper 4 "unknown" rolls, however, some may need to be duplicates to actually generate the blue. Therefore I`d estimate an additional 2 blues in this game. As always setup speculation is tedious and not worth that much in the grand scheme of things when playing a semi-open setup. I think we should leave it alone unless someone claims scum through attempted setup-based manipulation.
Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:28 iamperfection wrote:On November 14 2012 08:45 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 08:40 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah the ZB defense imo tells us more about iamp than it does about ZB-- but either way neither of them a good lynch today Yeah I'm looking at Thrawn and Kickstart atm. Thrawn's inactivity is pretty uncharacteristic of him so far. Kickstart as well dumped some suspicion on me and then peace'd out. I'm a bit more forgiving to Kickstart though as a first-time player. So let's get thrawn talking shall we? ##Vote Thrawn(Would love to hear from kickstart too, but more concerned with Thrawn atm) he did actually he just didn't mention cross. That damn near clears djo as far as association cases go.
Maybe not clear. But I would be inclined to Look at S&B Clarity and ZB first.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 17 2012 10:38 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:32 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 17 2012 10:15 debears wrote:
Does anyone know the odds of a miller being in the setup with:
1) a jk/scum rb
2) a vig
3) a gf I don't feel like crunching actual numbers, but that setup would only require: MVD #### M=mason/miller. 1 M usually means innocent child, but that was replaced by miller. V=Vig - All are single shot, so this roll is questionable as to how it gets handed out D=Doctor/Jailkeeper 4 "unknown" rolls, however, some may need to be duplicates to actually generate the blue. Therefore I`d estimate an additional 2 blues in this game. As always setup speculation is tedious and not worth that much in the grand scheme of things when playing a semi-open setup. I think we should leave it alone unless someone claims scum through attempted setup-based manipulation.
On November 17 2012 10:28 iamperfection wrote:On November 14 2012 08:45 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 08:40 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah the ZB defense imo tells us more about iamp than it does about ZB-- but either way neither of them a good lynch today Yeah I'm looking at Thrawn and Kickstart atm. Thrawn's inactivity is pretty uncharacteristic of him so far. Kickstart as well dumped some suspicion on me and then peace'd out. I'm a bit more forgiving to Kickstart though as a first-time player. So let's get thrawn talking shall we? ##Vote Thrawn(Would love to hear from kickstart too, but more concerned with Thrawn atm) he did actually he just didn't mention cross. That damn near clears djo as far as association cases go. Maybe not clear. But I would be inclined to Look at S&B Clarity and ZB first.
Just FYI I think if we lynch SnB, Clarity, and ZB, we catch scum between the three of them. Still waiting to make a read on Djoren though.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB.
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All righty had a tough day.
Read SnB's filter, and I don't think he's a good lynch today. Couple of reasons, mostly based on his interaction with hapahauli.
This post:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 03:56 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote:Catching up on my lunch break.
Regarding SnB##UnvoteAfter sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB. (FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.)
On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote:Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Clarity
Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO. You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote:
It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike?
You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not. Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this.
Regarding the Z-Boson CaseI really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy. ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game. Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him.
Regarding iamperfectionHis sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post. I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim: I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim: On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial. It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game. ##Vote iamperfection this is much more like what i expect out of hapahauli, i guess it just took a little while for him to get into character. that said his case is pretty bad for reasons i explained above
Seems genuine to me. I feel like this is a genuine exchange between hapa and SnB. Main point is hapa's read on SnB:
After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB.
And SnB's response is "that's the hapa I'm accustomed to" .
Also, another post from his filter:
On November 14 2012 22:39 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:21 Hapahauli wrote:
Easy on the claim stuff guys - it's pointless to argue about something that already happened unless you actually think BH's claim is scummy - and it's too suicidal to be scummy IMO. He could be scum, but it's pretty unlikely.
BH - can I get your thoughts on Debears? lol hapa this post almost persuaded me to vote for BH
Really, in my experience, scum don't openly base themselves off of other scum's cases like that.
He also gave Hapa a fuckin town read:
On November 15 2012 08:30 strongandbig wrote:
oh also i skimmed through hopelesses filter
the first half of it is mega terrible
like, there's a bunch of unimportant one-liners and then like his only big posts until he starts getting accused are about the "who knew when whether crossfire was a smurf" thing, which just doesn't matter so hard it hurts
but then later i like hopeless's responses quite a bit more
but then i actually read his list post and it contains gems like
"Hapa - town, largely due to connections between him and debears, and between him and kickstart. This read has severely influenced my current scumreads. "
town b/c he attacked your scumread, debears was attacked by your townread therefore he's scum
lolwut
"BH is trolly as fuck, but unlynchable today due to an uncountered JK claim. I haven't read into his meta, because there is no chance to push his lynch, even if I can make a convincing case. Despite this, I think the trolling is scummy, and I'll need to read the threads he's referenced during the night (assuming I'm not lynched)."
he claimed so he's gonna be hard to lynch today so why bother thinking about him
lolwut
"Clarity - Town. He seems to misread the thread or just confuse people alot. I feel that type of repeating 'mistake' is less likely to happen as scum."
yeah confusing people totally isn't in a scum's interest
lolwut
"Z-Bo - Town. I liked his pursuit of his case against BH and thought he brought up some legitimate points. Apparently they were so good BH had to claim to escape. "
lolwut
no other comments just lolwut
oh actually yes other comments - zboson is town because bh responded stupidly to his case?
"Strongandbig - Null-Town. Strange vt claim feels townslippy. However, Kenpachi rule shenanigans and insists on lynching BH for a while, despite blueclaim. Too strong of a scum motive to just let that slide, but I also think BH is scummy, so this read flips to Null-Scum if BH is in fact JK."
lolwut - is this, like, a reverse connection theory? like, if bh is telling the truth then I must be scum? i really don't think that makes sense
yeah so now i'm suddenly torn between wanting to test the kenpachi rule and hopeless's filter actually being terrible
I guess if I really really had to I might vote hopeless to push that past a darthpunk lynch, because the reasons for lynching darthpunk are actually the worst.
This post here:
On November 14 2012 22:45 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 11:22 marvellosity wrote:
my rage is perfectly coherent.
what's even more infuriating is that you don't understand why you are bad.
any sensible townie would argue his way out of his lynch (3 votes, cmon) and only if necessary, a few hours from deadline, claim if he could absolutely not avoid getting lynched.
Jailkeeper is a very strong role and now you've made it so it cannot protect anybody, plus a confirmed bluesnipe on you, if you are town. Which I'm not even convinced of yet, I just can't bring myself to lynch the claim day 1. Marv come the fuck on. blazinghand obviously knows this. He had such a good time trolling keirathi in Whose Line before that game's premature end, that he wants to keep it up now. I will give 2:1 hat-eating odds that blazinghand's claim is fake. idk whether that makes him scum or town, but I'm inclined to think scum.
Also sounds like "confused townie" rather than someone who fakes confusion.
I also think that a scum SnB wouldn't play the "I don't give a fuck" routine, and his reaction to pressure right here is much much different than in LVII
tl;dr
His recent showing of his play is really really town-indicative, and he's openly drawing too many connections to a confirmed scum - hapahauli. I am not comfortable with an SnB lynch. Will pursue other reads, mainly thrawn (djo) and clarity.
Let me know what you guys think.
##Unvote
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB.
I agree. He felt off all game. And his Death post was a blatant WIFOM bomb if I have ever seen one.
##Vote: Z - Boson
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LoL and he arrives as soon as a case is made against him. Nice timing.
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On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB.
Seriously, I've about had it with these meta reads. Fuck off. Read this:
On November 16 2012 13:47 Z-BosoN wrote:DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting. 1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. 5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Just so I'd come out looking good. All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta. And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway. Sniped post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut. Reread please: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote:Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him  Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out  Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie. It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum? 0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it.
If you really think I'm scum make a fucking case that explains why I would bus my fucking teammate in a death post and say my other teammate was the best lynch. Stop fucking saying meta meta meta and starting saying fucking scum-motivation and town-motivation. Goddamn, enough conspiracy theory and start using occams razor.
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I said I was going to be busy today...
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On November 17 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB. I agree. He felt off all game. And his Death post was a blatant WIFOM bomb if I have ever seen one. ##Vote: Z - Boson
How is it a WIFOm bomb you retard? Did you think i'd assume you guys would jump off of me and go towards hapahauli with five fucking minutes left to lynch-time??? What makes more sense?? The amount of stupidity is way too fucking high.
WHY WOULD I BUS MY TEAMMATE, HAPA AT THAT, WITH 5 MINUTES LEFT TO GO AND LIKE 8 VOTES ON ME??? WHY NOT TELL TOWN TO LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE??
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 17 2012 10:47 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB. Seriously, I've about had it with these meta reads. Fuck off. Read this: Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 13:47 Z-BosoN wrote:DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting. 1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. 5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Just so I'd come out looking good. All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta. And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway. Sniped post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut. Reread please: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote:Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie. It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum? 0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it. If you really think I'm scum make a fucking case that explains why I would bus my fucking teammate in a death post and say my other teammate was the best lynch. Stop fucking saying meta meta meta and starting saying fucking scum-motivation and town-motivation. Goddamn, enough conspiracy theory and start using occams razor.
There's no risk of a miller counter-claim in a game with a godfather, or at least it's a low risk.
2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that.
Admittedly, this is a point in your favor. The fact that you immediately believed my claim and unvoted though is a mark against you. Everyone else was very skeptical except for like you, Hapa, and clarity. As scum you WOULD know it was a true claim
.
3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today.
Um, if you were gonna die anything you said as you died is WIFOM and you know it. Crossfire was scummy as hell and bussing him D2 is completely fine scum play. No points for you here.
4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies.
Hapa returned checks as town. And honestly, yes, scum DO try to save their buddies unless it is neccessary to bus them.
Occam's razor tells me: it's simpler that you, playing near-exactly to your scum meta, are scum, than you playing near-exactly to your scum meta is town. You haven't been playing bad- just scummy, just like you always do as scum
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^^^
BH, I do agree with the meta thing. When I played Z-Bo and we were both town, he tunneled me to death d1
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Look ZB, I know you don't like me too much right now, but you said you're not comfortable with an SnB lynch, which is kind of what A) we'd expect from scum ZB rather than a zealous pursuit and B) not particularly useful since you don't offer up a new case. How about you provide us with a scumread? Consider it the first step to an adequate defense of yourself.
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Halfway-mark Votecount:
strongandbig (2): Kickstart, Clarity_nl
Z-BosoN (2): Blazinghand, DarthPunk
Blazinghand (1): strongandbig
Not voting (5): iamperfection, Djodref, debears, hopeless1der, Z-BosoN
Currently, strongandbig is set to be lynched! 24 hours remaining in Day 1.
If you see your (or another's) vote to be wrong, it would be kind to notify us.
Full version:
+ Show Spoiler +strongandbig (2): Kickstart, Clarity_nl, Blazinghand, debears, Hopeless1der, Z-BosoN
Z-BosoN (2): Blazinghand, DarthPunk
Blazinghand (1): Djodref, strongandbig, debears
Not voting (5) iamperfection, Djodref, debears, Hopeless1der, Z-BosoN
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On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META
DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless.
Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads:
Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live.
BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3.
Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town.
ZB wants to vote hopeless whilst screaming that BH and HAPA are scum.
On November 15 2012 10:51 Z-BosoN wrote:
SIgh... looks like town decided to sheep a read to which I gave a perfectly plausible explanation.
Lynch Hapahauli.
That's about it. Can't fucking believe this.
He then doesn't mention BH or hopeless at all and says we should vote HAPA.
On November 15 2012 10:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless1der
At least in my future games, I'll be able to keep this much better and improved meta up.
He then Votes for hopeless despite proclaiming Hapa is scum.
He then says we should lynch Hapa despite not actually voting for him yet.
On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
This is like such an obvious WIFOM bomb. It was super obvious as soon as I saw it. He is not adding anything to the thread in terms of info or reads but is laying the framework for association WIFOM.
On November 15 2012 11:13 Z-BosoN wrote:
WHAT NOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
DEBEARS FUCKING HIGH FIVE
I'LL SAY WHY I THOUGHT HAPA WAS SCUM WHEN THIS IS OVER.
This is like so easy to fake as scum. He says he will tell us why he thought hapa is scum later. As if he had some way of knowing. He promises to reveal them later.
On November 15 2012 11:22 Z-BosoN wrote:Nah man, I figured he was scum due to totally different reasons than yours. I just didn't think we would have lynched him based on my arguments alone, and I didn't want to get in a verbal fight with him (he's so fucking difficult to deal with). His interaction with you I'd say was fairly regular. Let us compare dicks when the game is over though, and right now REJOICE!!!!Town fucking awesome. I fucking love you guys. I fucking fucking love you guys. YOU lynched hapa. And now the information we get is OUTSTANDING. Scum is almost 100% in my wagon (maaaaybe except BH, but nah, not voting him tomorrow). I'm obvious not fucking scum, my reads were obviously my last will. Fuck yea.
Again he says here that he had some arguments for why HAPA was scum and they were different from debears.
We are still waiting for his explanation though.
And here it is
Also. ZB has several list posts in his filter which are not what I expect from town and scummy in general.
Posts like these
LINK
LINK
LINK
LINK
All list posts that contain some few meaningless statements and are the exact thing scum ZB posts which Town ZB does not.
I am positive ZB is scum from reading his filter and knowing his meta and we must lynch him today.
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On November 17 2012 10:51 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB. I agree. He felt off all game. And his Death post was a blatant WIFOM bomb if I have ever seen one. ##Vote: Z - Boson How is it a WIFOm bomb you retard? Did you think i'd assume you guys would jump off of me and go towards hapahauli with five fucking minutes left to lynch-time??? What makes more sense?? The amount of stupidity is way too fucking high. WHY WOULD I BUS MY TEAMMATE, HAPA AT THAT, WITH 5 MINUTES LEFT TO GO AND LIKE 8 VOTES ON ME??? WHY NOT TELL TOWN TO LYNCH SOMEONE ELSE??
Because of this exact argument. Hence WIFOM bomb.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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On November 17 2012 10:52 Blazinghand wrote:
Look ZB, I know you don't like me too much right now, but you said you're not comfortable with an SnB lynch, which is kind of what A) we'd expect from scum ZB rather than a zealous pursuit and B) not particularly useful since you don't offer up a new case. How about you provide us with a scumread? Consider it the first step to an adequate defense of yourself.
My meta is a step towards improving my play, and like I said, more importantly, I was aware of that. Why would I purposefully play towards my scum meta????
On November 17 2012 10:51 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:47 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote:
I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB. Seriously, I've about had it with these meta reads. Fuck off. Read this: On November 16 2012 13:47 Z-BosoN wrote:DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting. 1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. 5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Just so I'd come out looking good. All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta. And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway. Sniped post: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote:On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote:
Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case.
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut. Reread please: + Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote:Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote:Z-BosonMetarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you).
Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote:
Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote:k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god.
Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
I think someone has some real issues.
Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Omfg austin really loves me.
I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more.
You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective.
Right now you just seem desperate.
I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
Austin, holy shit.
For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing.
/applauds
Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhuntingLook at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote:Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment.On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why.
This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless.On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote:Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post:
On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote:On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote:On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
Why not DarthPunk?
He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though.
i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that.Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist.
Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong.Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong)Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that.
None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie. It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum? 0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it. If you really think I'm scum make a fucking case that explains why I would bus my fucking teammate in a death post and say my other teammate was the best lynch. Stop fucking saying meta meta meta and starting saying fucking scum-motivation and town-motivation. Goddamn, enough conspiracy theory and start using occams razor. There's no risk of a miller counter-claim in a game with a godfather, or at least it's a low risk. Show nested quote +
2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that.
Admittedly, this is a point in your favor. The fact that you immediately believed my claim and unvoted though is a mark against you. Everyone else was very skeptical except for like you, Hapa, and clarity. As scum you WOULD know it was a true claim . Show nested quote +
3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today.
Um, if you were gonna die anything you said as you died is WIFOM and you know it. Crossfire was scummy as hell and bussing him D2 is completely fine scum play. No points for you here. Show nested quote +
4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies.
Hapa returned checks as town. And honestly, yes, scum DO try to save their buddies unless it is neccessary to bus them. Occam's razor tells me: it's simpler that you, playing near-exactly to your scum meta, are scum, than you playing near-exactly to your scum meta is town. You haven't been playing bad- just scummy, just like you always do as scum
Are you out of your fucking mind? It's obvious to me that you shouldn't lynch a claimed blue on day one. You actually agreed with that. Why are you pursuing me right now for someone that you agreed on??
On November 14 2012 12:39 Blazinghand wrote:
anyone who would lynch a claimed blue D1 has serious issues
And now you are saying that I accepted it way too quickly? Not lynching a claimed blue day one is obvious, and it's something you agreed on in the quoted post.
And no, that occam razors explanation doesn't deal with many of my points. I'm not straight-up going to both my scummates to look good as scum, not in a million years, and neither will any reasonable scum. You guys are just enjoying feeling smart, and give more priority to a EXPLAINED META rather than my obvious townie play.
Simplest explanation is: I actually did decide to change my meta, in accordance with the evidence I posted (and hapa did, in a heroic attempt to look try-hard townie) to back it up, and I succesfully managed to want to kill two scum. The other is explanation is just "look at me!! I'm smart!! You be WIFOMING!!!"
I'm done here, you guys are idiots. Just read with your heads out of your asses and you'll do fine. I'ma go read some other filters, I've defended myself in the most reasonable way I possibly can and yet people loooove feeling smart.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On November 17 2012 11:10 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2012 10:52 Blazinghand wrote:
Look ZB, I know you don't like me too much right now, but you said you're not comfortable with an SnB lynch, which is kind of what A) we'd expect from scum ZB rather than a zealous pursuit and B) not particularly useful since you don't offer up a new case. How about you provide us with a scumread? Consider it the first step to an adequate defense of yourself. My meta is a step towards improving my play, and like I said, more importantly, I was aware of that. Why would I purposefully play towards my scum meta????
Everyone is aware of their scum meta, Z-B. The reason it's scum meta is that by nature it's hard to not play to it, and it's fundamentally difficult to avoid playing to it as scum.
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