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Manager J was seen on the grassy knoll.
Now he is actively training the taliban.
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On October 24 2012 18:12 Xiaopewpew wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 18:07 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 17:37 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 17:20 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 17:08 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 16:52 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 16:45 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 16:40 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 16:03 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 15:56 JAWS_ wrote:
Chris Mitchell @MitchellChris
@Peter72972598 @xiaopewpew @ProxyDrake The rejection came from her email address, although apparently Manager J had access to it.
Another fact, is came from her mail.
What amazes me the most is people still bashing MMA, Would you really expect him to react in what way after all this shit? He sia din his interview that other players went to himt elling the stuff the management (Maybe Jessica/Boxer) were saying to him, talking bad things of him just cause he questioned something he had every right to do it after seeing this Razor tweets. God I lover Boxer but even being my idol if the guy called me a Cancer I would say something like MMA did too, can you guys really blame him? Jawy ! nobody is bashing MMA in these pages.... T.T why cant you get it T.T this is too hard !!! T.T we are just discussing if Jessica is innocent in the sponsorship thing T.T On the other hand, it is clear now that both Jessica and MMA's accounts are true regarding the sponsorship thing. MMA believed manager J and later acted like a dxxx while Jessica was really hurt and saw MMA misbehaving and accused him of damaging the house's atmosphere. A huge misunderstanding. Now im bashing MMA a little ! I would say it is very weird that he trusted someone he knew for only a few months instead of trusting Boxer and Jessica who brought him to the esports scene and took care of him for so long. I can understand how hurt Boxer and Jessica must be. The irony is, Jessica was the one that trusted manager J in the first place after meeting him for a few months, and gave him access to everything (seriously, even you email?). And you blame MMA for that? lol Jessica did not know. And she apologized for mistrusting this guy already. But for MMA, it is Boxer/Jessica's words against J's words. It is different. And from his interview, you can infer that even now he is still J's whore. I feel this maybe something to blame. From MMA's perspective, he was told that he had a personal sponsorship (FACT), and it got rejected (FACT). He went up to Boxer/Jessica to ask about it, they said no and started talking shit and started to treat him like a "cancer". He also wanted to leave the team to join a foreign team, and found one, but then Jessica requested a huge transfer fee, which caused the transfer to be cancelled. How can you fault someone for that? The way I see it is 1) Jessica really did do everything claimed so therefore it's not MMA's fault or 2) Manager J was behind the whole thing, and MMA trusted him wrongly, but then Jessica would of been blamed as well for trusting Manager J (which literally is the initial cause of this whole shit storm) So either way, I don't see how you can really fault MMA for this. Again, I'm not saying it is really Jessica's fault here, I'm just saying in most scenarios, I really see MMA as just the innocent victim here more than anything. your account is not true. You make it sound like Boxer and Jessica are being unreasonable. I just gonna comment on the cancer and sponsorship thing since the transfer fee incident is somewhat vague. (no parties have explained this yet) MMA's fault is, after Jessica clarified things. He should have trusted Jessica and let it go, or tell her about manager J saying shits. But he turned his back on someone who took care of him for 2 years and led him to his current success. He trusted this J guy. Which led him talking to people about this embezzlement in the team (this definitely happened no doubt) and make suspicion grow in the team house. Thus damaging the atmosphere. Obviously Alicia Ryung and Crank bought what MMA said and these people segregated themselves from the team. This is why Boxer said MMA is a cancer to the team and ask Ryung to make his own decision! Of course, Jessica made a huge mistake bringing in J. But this mistake is hard to avoid! Who would know J is such a man scum? However for MMA, he actually has 2 sides of the story ! however he chose to buy the side of story that feeds his ego. He turned his back against people who cared for him. And this is no less of a mistake that what Jessica did. you have to understand the issue here. If stranger A, B telling you different stories, and you trusted the wrong guy, it is not your fault. However if your mum and a stranger both claims the other is trying to hurt you, and you,carrying a gun, shot your mother instead of the stranger, something would be very wrong !!! But as I said, im not sure abt the transfer fees. Waiting for explanation But the reality is, from MMA's perspective, what Manager J told him is actually true: there WAS an offer and it DID get rejected. So any sane person would raise some suspicions. From MMA's words: "I got confused but I had no one talk to. My mind was heavily burdened for the weeks afterwards". So he went to talked to his best buddies. 100% normal for any person with this amount of shits happening to them. You're talking as if Jessica/Boxer was literally his foster parents that he had been known for his whole life. In reality, they aren't; he's been on the team for just 2 years, and afaik, Jessica doesn't even live in the team house, and Boxer only seldomly. If someone else that JESSICA TRUSTS (at that time, Jessica still trusted manager J given the fact that he was still dealing with all their sponsorship and foreign affairs) tells him something like that (and it actually DID happen), it is a completely understandable reaction for a 23 yrs old gamer to react the way MMA did. And even if you think MMA still has fault for some reason, it's definitely not big enough to warrant his career being ruined. [1)] Whether it did happen or did not is irrelevant to the issue. Did MMA actually personally check with Razor or whatever organization? From his interview I saw nothing of this sort. This incident is not about the truth. It is really about word of J against word of Jessica. MMA DID NOT try to find out the truth himself (if he did, things would not be like this right?) He just sided with one side's account of the sponsorship incident. You are saying MMA believes in J because Jessica believed in J, am i understanding this right? it does not seem to make any sense to me because J was telling him bad things Jessica did ! [2)] Jessica and Boxer certainly are not MMA's parents. But lets look at it this way. One side, are 2 people invested a lot of money and efforts in this team, who, please note here, DO NOT need that kind of money because they are good enough financially. The other hand, is manager J who worked in the team form 2 months. ( or longer, doesnt matter ) Isnt it a bit naive to believe in the latter? Lets face it, the reason why MMA believes in it so strongly even until today is because theory proposed by J feeds MMA's ego ! ( simulating MMA's brain activity would be like " Im so good, why dont i have a personal sponsor ! I must have received an offer like J said, but Jessica gave to Boxer ! ) I do not think MMA should get his career ruined. But he has to apologize. I can only imagine how hurt Boxer and Jessica are, seeing someone they cared turning his back against them. But obviously MMA did not offer any form of reasonable apology. His interview reads basically like " im fabulous, i did nothing wrong, but im going to apologize because Boxer and Jessica are older than me" 1) Wait what? You're saying the truth doesn't matter? So if my high-school teacher that I've had for 2 years was accused of stealing my very expensive watch, and in reality he really does have my watch, I shouldn't at the very least be suspicious? Seriously, 2 years isn't really a lot, especially for an employer that you rarely see. Also, are you really blaming the PLAYER for not going up to sponsors to clear up all the management stuff himself? seriously?? He went upfront to ask Jessica/Boxer about it, and that is as much a player really is responsible needs to do. It's the manager's job to dig to the end of things, find facts and provide proofs, give the players confidence and calm the crisis down. This part is clearly a management issue. MMA's job is to focus on his games, practice, and improve. 2) Like I said, it IS naive for MMA's to believe in J, but the same can be said about Jessica; she trusted him so much to give him access to her actual email account for crying out loud. And also, what I meant previously was, at the time that MMA was told and believed manager J's word, Jessica still had full trust in manager J at the same time. Secondly, yes, Slayers brought MMA up, but the same can be said the other way around. If it weren't for MMA, Slayers wouldn't have had the success they had. MMA literally carried the team to their first two consecutive GSTL victories, followed by second place at Super Tournament, followed by GSL champion at Blizzcon, followed by few MLG first and second places, IPL first place, then Bliz Cup championship at the end of the year, follow by Iron Squid champion. No one else on the team even had remotely anything near a championship at the time. So I would say for what Slayer's did for MMA, he equally gave back through his effort and hard work. Im done arguing with you. It is the same thing back and forth. I gave a thorough read on what you said and replied properly but you give a glance at what i said and twist my meanings. So I lost, you are right. *flies away*
Don't be frustrated, I believe you guys don't really understand each other due to cultural differences. I, as a non-asian, have a hard time also to buy into this "always trust your elders", while for you and some other the biggest selling point seems to be that MMA and the others dared not to show enough respect to Jessica and Boxer.
Luckily, it's not up to us to decide anything here, so we can just agree to disagree in this whole drama mess, and be respectful of the other side's point of view 
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On October 24 2012 20:22 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 18:12 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 18:07 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 17:37 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 17:20 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 17:08 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 16:52 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 16:45 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 16:40 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 16:03 Xiaopewpew wrote:
[quote]
Jawy ! nobody is bashing MMA in these pages.... T.T why cant you get it T.T this is too hard !!! T.T we are just discussing if Jessica is innocent in the sponsorship thing T.T
On the other hand, it is clear now that both Jessica and MMA's accounts are true regarding the sponsorship thing. MMA believed manager J and later acted like a dxxx while Jessica was really hurt and saw MMA misbehaving and accused him of damaging the house's atmosphere. A huge misunderstanding.
Now im bashing MMA a little ! I would say it is very weird that he trusted someone he knew for only a few months instead of trusting Boxer and Jessica who brought him to the esports scene and took care of him for so long. I can understand how hurt Boxer and Jessica must be.
The irony is, Jessica was the one that trusted manager J in the first place after meeting him for a few months, and gave him access to everything (seriously, even you email?). And you blame MMA for that? lol Jessica did not know. And she apologized for mistrusting this guy already. But for MMA, it is Boxer/Jessica's words against J's words. It is different. And from his interview, you can infer that even now he is still J's whore. I feel this maybe something to blame. From MMA's perspective, he was told that he had a personal sponsorship (FACT), and it got rejected (FACT). He went up to Boxer/Jessica to ask about it, they said no and started talking shit and started to treat him like a "cancer". He also wanted to leave the team to join a foreign team, and found one, but then Jessica requested a huge transfer fee, which caused the transfer to be cancelled. How can you fault someone for that? The way I see it is 1) Jessica really did do everything claimed so therefore it's not MMA's fault or 2) Manager J was behind the whole thing, and MMA trusted him wrongly, but then Jessica would of been blamed as well for trusting Manager J (which literally is the initial cause of this whole shit storm) So either way, I don't see how you can really fault MMA for this. Again, I'm not saying it is really Jessica's fault here, I'm just saying in most scenarios, I really see MMA as just the innocent victim here more than anything. your account is not true. You make it sound like Boxer and Jessica are being unreasonable. I just gonna comment on the cancer and sponsorship thing since the transfer fee incident is somewhat vague. (no parties have explained this yet) MMA's fault is, after Jessica clarified things. He should have trusted Jessica and let it go, or tell her about manager J saying shits. But he turned his back on someone who took care of him for 2 years and led him to his current success. He trusted this J guy. Which led him talking to people about this embezzlement in the team (this definitely happened no doubt) and make suspicion grow in the team house. Thus damaging the atmosphere. Obviously Alicia Ryung and Crank bought what MMA said and these people segregated themselves from the team. This is why Boxer said MMA is a cancer to the team and ask Ryung to make his own decision! Of course, Jessica made a huge mistake bringing in J. But this mistake is hard to avoid! Who would know J is such a man scum? However for MMA, he actually has 2 sides of the story ! however he chose to buy the side of story that feeds his ego. He turned his back against people who cared for him. And this is no less of a mistake that what Jessica did. you have to understand the issue here. If stranger A, B telling you different stories, and you trusted the wrong guy, it is not your fault. However if your mum and a stranger both claims the other is trying to hurt you, and you,carrying a gun, shot your mother instead of the stranger, something would be very wrong !!! But as I said, im not sure abt the transfer fees. Waiting for explanation But the reality is, from MMA's perspective, what Manager J told him is actually true: there WAS an offer and it DID get rejected. So any sane person would raise some suspicions. From MMA's words: "I got confused but I had no one talk to. My mind was heavily burdened for the weeks afterwards". So he went to talked to his best buddies. 100% normal for any person with this amount of shits happening to them. You're talking as if Jessica/Boxer was literally his foster parents that he had been known for his whole life. In reality, they aren't; he's been on the team for just 2 years, and afaik, Jessica doesn't even live in the team house, and Boxer only seldomly. If someone else that JESSICA TRUSTS (at that time, Jessica still trusted manager J given the fact that he was still dealing with all their sponsorship and foreign affairs) tells him something like that (and it actually DID happen), it is a completely understandable reaction for a 23 yrs old gamer to react the way MMA did. And even if you think MMA still has fault for some reason, it's definitely not big enough to warrant his career being ruined. [1)] Whether it did happen or did not is irrelevant to the issue. Did MMA actually personally check with Razor or whatever organization? From his interview I saw nothing of this sort. This incident is not about the truth. It is really about word of J against word of Jessica. MMA DID NOT try to find out the truth himself (if he did, things would not be like this right?) He just sided with one side's account of the sponsorship incident. You are saying MMA believes in J because Jessica believed in J, am i understanding this right? it does not seem to make any sense to me because J was telling him bad things Jessica did ! [2)] Jessica and Boxer certainly are not MMA's parents. But lets look at it this way. One side, are 2 people invested a lot of money and efforts in this team, who, please note here, DO NOT need that kind of money because they are good enough financially. The other hand, is manager J who worked in the team form 2 months. ( or longer, doesnt matter ) Isnt it a bit naive to believe in the latter? Lets face it, the reason why MMA believes in it so strongly even until today is because theory proposed by J feeds MMA's ego ! ( simulating MMA's brain activity would be like " Im so good, why dont i have a personal sponsor ! I must have received an offer like J said, but Jessica gave to Boxer ! ) I do not think MMA should get his career ruined. But he has to apologize. I can only imagine how hurt Boxer and Jessica are, seeing someone they cared turning his back against them. But obviously MMA did not offer any form of reasonable apology. His interview reads basically like " im fabulous, i did nothing wrong, but im going to apologize because Boxer and Jessica are older than me" 1) Wait what? You're saying the truth doesn't matter? So if my high-school teacher that I've had for 2 years was accused of stealing my very expensive watch, and in reality he really does have my watch, I shouldn't at the very least be suspicious? Seriously, 2 years isn't really a lot, especially for an employer that you rarely see. Also, are you really blaming the PLAYER for not going up to sponsors to clear up all the management stuff himself? seriously?? He went upfront to ask Jessica/Boxer about it, and that is as much a player really is responsible needs to do. It's the manager's job to dig to the end of things, find facts and provide proofs, give the players confidence and calm the crisis down. This part is clearly a management issue. MMA's job is to focus on his games, practice, and improve. 2) Like I said, it IS naive for MMA's to believe in J, but the same can be said about Jessica; she trusted him so much to give him access to her actual email account for crying out loud. And also, what I meant previously was, at the time that MMA was told and believed manager J's word, Jessica still had full trust in manager J at the same time. Secondly, yes, Slayers brought MMA up, but the same can be said the other way around. If it weren't for MMA, Slayers wouldn't have had the success they had. MMA literally carried the team to their first two consecutive GSTL victories, followed by second place at Super Tournament, followed by GSL champion at Blizzcon, followed by few MLG first and second places, IPL first place, then Bliz Cup championship at the end of the year, follow by Iron Squid champion. No one else on the team even had remotely anything near a championship at the time. So I would say for what Slayer's did for MMA, he equally gave back through his effort and hard work. Im done arguing with you. It is the same thing back and forth. I gave a thorough read on what you said and replied properly but you give a glance at what i said and twist my meanings. So I lost, you are right. *flies away* Don't be frustrated, I believe you guys don't really understand each other due to cultural differences. I, as a non-asian, have a hard time also to buy into this "always trust your elders", while for you and some other the biggest selling point seems to be that MMA and the others dared not to show enough respect to Jessica and Boxer. Luckily, it's not up to us to decide anything here, so we can just agree to disagree in this whole drama mess, and be respectful of the other side's point of view
Good lord, I open the post history and damn that is long. Shit, what in the world did they say to make it such a long discussion.
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On October 24 2012 19:32 broz0rs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 17:18 thirtyapm wrote:
i knew it, this monsieu J is BS.
should never have let it sponsored gsl in the first place, now EVERYTHING is falling apart because monsieur J... that silky silky smoothly manly monsieur J As a result of managing the Slayers e-mails account, J read an e-mail from the foreign company who was interested in sponsoring MMA. He translated the inquiry to Jessica, and assumed this would lead to an opportunity for MMA. He was excited for his friend. When that inquiry never came to fruition, J spoke to MMA about whether he received any word from Jessica regarding the possible sponsorship. MMA heard nothing and was surprised to find out this news. Jessica learns about J speaking to MMA about this, thinking this crossed the line and expels J from the team house.
How could you possibly know what actually happened unless you have first-hand information from Manager J/Chris Mitchell/Jessica?
Please don't offer your own interpretation of events and attempt to pass it off as 'fact'. That just misleads people and will cause further misunderstandings in this thread.
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Lol, isn't this giant hearsay? I suppose you could argue that it's all a big misunderstanding. The real question is:
1) Has jessica embezzled? (No, she hasn't)
2) Did the players get released from their contracts without repercussion or compensation? (Yes, this seems to be the case)
So, in business terms, it's all good. Ethically though, I now wouldn't trust BoxeR/Jessica with my company (bad management), wouldn't trust Manager J (he's just too shady atm) and MMA I'll give a second chance because he is young and because his ROI is better.
Problem solved! Everyone wins. MMA moves to another team (and another team WILL pick him up - SlayerS loss, but our gain). BoxeR is at SKT and manager J will probably manage. Positivity guys! trolololol
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On October 24 2012 19:32 broz0rs wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 17:18 thirtyapm wrote:
i knew it, this monsieu J is BS.
should never have let it sponsored gsl in the first place, now EVERYTHING is falling apart because monsieur J... that silky silky smoothly manly monsieur J I'm going to use this ignorant post as an example of how "J" is being portrayed as the devil's advocate by some people here. It's easy to place the blame on J because he's anonymous, is not a SC2 player, and is the catalyst for the fall of Slayers. Let me point out some facts about J that I don't think has been mentioned all that much. He was their unofficial foreign correspondent for Slayers. He managed the English language Slayers Facebook fanpage (note the time frame of the last post), Twitter account, and their e-mail account. He basically maintained Slayers' foreign marketing on a volunteer basis. He did not get paid for any of his work. As a result of managing the Slayers e-mails account, J read an e-mail from the foreign company who was interested in sponsoring MMA. He translated the inquiry to Jessica, and assumed this would lead to an opportunity for MMA. He was excited for his friend. When that inquiry never came to fruition, J spoke to MMA about whether he received any word from Jessica regarding the possible sponsorship. MMA heard nothing and was surprised to find out this news. Jessica learns about J speaking to MMA about this, thinking this crossed the line and expels J from the team house. Basically J is involved in these events because Jessica found a foreign correspondent who was willing to do it for free. This was the reason why he was around the Slayers team house. He was literally part of the team. What he did was tell the truth to MMA, to make sure he knew what was going on with something that could have meant a great deal of importance to him. So what possible things did J do wrong?
Reading MMA's interview:
"He (J) said Jessica took one company's individual sponsorship offer [for me] and gave it to BoxeR instead." later "BoxeR also knew how serious this matter was and checked it for me for few days, but replied with 'No such sponsorship existed.'"
Razer stated on reddit that a personal sponsorship for Boxer (!) was denied at the same time (not after!) as the personal sponsorship for MMA.
It doesnt make any sense for SlayerS to reject a personal sponsorship for Boxer. The idea from the Razer guy ("only interested in team sponsorship") doesnt make any sense, since SlayerS was founded with personal sponsorship money from Boxer (see Boxer's Wings).
Jessica in her initial interview: "What I found was shocking. "J" had been telling me and the sponsors different things. While he was telling me that things were going along well in a certain way, he was actually [...], or handling the negotiations so poorly that they broke down."
When we look at Razer's statement, we know the statement from MMA is wrong. Either he is lying, or he wasnt told the truth himself (by manager J, his only contact). We also know that J had access to SlayerS's (Jessica's) mail (stated by Razer). We also know from J's history that he once was a manager of his own e-sports team (Lunatic-hai).
So unless MMA was lying I personally think it's way more plausible that J tried to plant mistrust in SlayerS so he could snatch the players away.
Also if J was such a good friend to MMA, why doesnt he help MMA right now? His statement would be worth.
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On October 24 2012 20:22 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 18:12 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 18:07 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 17:37 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 17:20 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 17:08 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 16:52 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 16:45 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 16:40 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 16:03 Xiaopewpew wrote:
[quote]
Jawy ! nobody is bashing MMA in these pages.... T.T why cant you get it T.T this is too hard !!! T.T we are just discussing if Jessica is innocent in the sponsorship thing T.T
On the other hand, it is clear now that both Jessica and MMA's accounts are true regarding the sponsorship thing. MMA believed manager J and later acted like a dxxx while Jessica was really hurt and saw MMA misbehaving and accused him of damaging the house's atmosphere. A huge misunderstanding.
Now im bashing MMA a little ! I would say it is very weird that he trusted someone he knew for only a few months instead of trusting Boxer and Jessica who brought him to the esports scene and took care of him for so long. I can understand how hurt Boxer and Jessica must be.
The irony is, Jessica was the one that trusted manager J in the first place after meeting him for a few months, and gave him access to everything (seriously, even you email?). And you blame MMA for that? lol Jessica did not know. And she apologized for mistrusting this guy already. But for MMA, it is Boxer/Jessica's words against J's words. It is different. And from his interview, you can infer that even now he is still J's whore. I feel this maybe something to blame. From MMA's perspective, he was told that he had a personal sponsorship (FACT), and it got rejected (FACT). He went up to Boxer/Jessica to ask about it, they said no and started talking shit and started to treat him like a "cancer". He also wanted to leave the team to join a foreign team, and found one, but then Jessica requested a huge transfer fee, which caused the transfer to be cancelled. How can you fault someone for that? The way I see it is 1) Jessica really did do everything claimed so therefore it's not MMA's fault or 2) Manager J was behind the whole thing, and MMA trusted him wrongly, but then Jessica would of been blamed as well for trusting Manager J (which literally is the initial cause of this whole shit storm) So either way, I don't see how you can really fault MMA for this. Again, I'm not saying it is really Jessica's fault here, I'm just saying in most scenarios, I really see MMA as just the innocent victim here more than anything. your account is not true. You make it sound like Boxer and Jessica are being unreasonable. I just gonna comment on the cancer and sponsorship thing since the transfer fee incident is somewhat vague. (no parties have explained this yet) MMA's fault is, after Jessica clarified things. He should have trusted Jessica and let it go, or tell her about manager J saying shits. But he turned his back on someone who took care of him for 2 years and led him to his current success. He trusted this J guy. Which led him talking to people about this embezzlement in the team (this definitely happened no doubt) and make suspicion grow in the team house. Thus damaging the atmosphere. Obviously Alicia Ryung and Crank bought what MMA said and these people segregated themselves from the team. This is why Boxer said MMA is a cancer to the team and ask Ryung to make his own decision! Of course, Jessica made a huge mistake bringing in J. But this mistake is hard to avoid! Who would know J is such a man scum? However for MMA, he actually has 2 sides of the story ! however he chose to buy the side of story that feeds his ego. He turned his back against people who cared for him. And this is no less of a mistake that what Jessica did. you have to understand the issue here. If stranger A, B telling you different stories, and you trusted the wrong guy, it is not your fault. However if your mum and a stranger both claims the other is trying to hurt you, and you,carrying a gun, shot your mother instead of the stranger, something would be very wrong !!! But as I said, im not sure abt the transfer fees. Waiting for explanation But the reality is, from MMA's perspective, what Manager J told him is actually true: there WAS an offer and it DID get rejected. So any sane person would raise some suspicions. From MMA's words: "I got confused but I had no one talk to. My mind was heavily burdened for the weeks afterwards". So he went to talked to his best buddies. 100% normal for any person with this amount of shits happening to them. You're talking as if Jessica/Boxer was literally his foster parents that he had been known for his whole life. In reality, they aren't; he's been on the team for just 2 years, and afaik, Jessica doesn't even live in the team house, and Boxer only seldomly. If someone else that JESSICA TRUSTS (at that time, Jessica still trusted manager J given the fact that he was still dealing with all their sponsorship and foreign affairs) tells him something like that (and it actually DID happen), it is a completely understandable reaction for a 23 yrs old gamer to react the way MMA did. And even if you think MMA still has fault for some reason, it's definitely not big enough to warrant his career being ruined. [1)] Whether it did happen or did not is irrelevant to the issue. Did MMA actually personally check with Razor or whatever organization? From his interview I saw nothing of this sort. This incident is not about the truth. It is really about word of J against word of Jessica. MMA DID NOT try to find out the truth himself (if he did, things would not be like this right?) He just sided with one side's account of the sponsorship incident. You are saying MMA believes in J because Jessica believed in J, am i understanding this right? it does not seem to make any sense to me because J was telling him bad things Jessica did ! [2)] Jessica and Boxer certainly are not MMA's parents. But lets look at it this way. One side, are 2 people invested a lot of money and efforts in this team, who, please note here, DO NOT need that kind of money because they are good enough financially. The other hand, is manager J who worked in the team form 2 months. ( or longer, doesnt matter ) Isnt it a bit naive to believe in the latter? Lets face it, the reason why MMA believes in it so strongly even until today is because theory proposed by J feeds MMA's ego ! ( simulating MMA's brain activity would be like " Im so good, why dont i have a personal sponsor ! I must have received an offer like J said, but Jessica gave to Boxer ! ) I do not think MMA should get his career ruined. But he has to apologize. I can only imagine how hurt Boxer and Jessica are, seeing someone they cared turning his back against them. But obviously MMA did not offer any form of reasonable apology. His interview reads basically like " im fabulous, i did nothing wrong, but im going to apologize because Boxer and Jessica are older than me" 1) Wait what? You're saying the truth doesn't matter? So if my high-school teacher that I've had for 2 years was accused of stealing my very expensive watch, and in reality he really does have my watch, I shouldn't at the very least be suspicious? Seriously, 2 years isn't really a lot, especially for an employer that you rarely see. Also, are you really blaming the PLAYER for not going up to sponsors to clear up all the management stuff himself? seriously?? He went upfront to ask Jessica/Boxer about it, and that is as much a player really is responsible needs to do. It's the manager's job to dig to the end of things, find facts and provide proofs, give the players confidence and calm the crisis down. This part is clearly a management issue. MMA's job is to focus on his games, practice, and improve. 2) Like I said, it IS naive for MMA's to believe in J, but the same can be said about Jessica; she trusted him so much to give him access to her actual email account for crying out loud. And also, what I meant previously was, at the time that MMA was told and believed manager J's word, Jessica still had full trust in manager J at the same time. Secondly, yes, Slayers brought MMA up, but the same can be said the other way around. If it weren't for MMA, Slayers wouldn't have had the success they had. MMA literally carried the team to their first two consecutive GSTL victories, followed by second place at Super Tournament, followed by GSL champion at Blizzcon, followed by few MLG first and second places, IPL first place, then Bliz Cup championship at the end of the year, follow by Iron Squid champion. No one else on the team even had remotely anything near a championship at the time. So I would say for what Slayer's did for MMA, he equally gave back through his effort and hard work. Im done arguing with you. It is the same thing back and forth. I gave a thorough read on what you said and replied properly but you give a glance at what i said and twist my meanings. So I lost, you are right. *flies away* Don't be frustrated, I believe you guys don't really understand each other due to cultural differences. I, as a non-asian, have a hard time also to buy into this "always trust your elders", while for you and some other the biggest selling point seems to be that MMA and the others dared not to show enough respect to Jessica and Boxer. Luckily, it's not up to us to decide anything here, so we can just agree to disagree in this whole drama mess, and be respectful of the other side's point of view
You have it all wrong. Its not to "always trust your elders" but to "always show respect to them." They are older than you and because they have lived longer you should not treat them at your ranks or lower. You could be a millionaire and have it all but you still got to show respect to someone older than you.
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On October 24 2012 15:34 dongmydrum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:32 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:24 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:20 ImNightmare wrote:On October 24 2012 15:17 lilsusie wrote:
KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
이것이 레이저사의 입장인지.. J매니져와 대화햇던 크리스의 입장인지 명확히 밝히세요 그럼 나도 준비를 할께요
Is this the perspective of Razer... or is it the opinion of Chris that Manager J has been talking to, please clarify. I will prepare.
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스..당신과 나는 새로운 스폰서쉅에 대해서 얘기하지 않고 J매니저와 얘기햇어요
Chris, you and I did not talk about a new sponsorship, you talked to Manager J
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스가 얘기를 앞뒤 상황잘라먹고 하는거 같네요 제 기억과 이메일 확인 작업후 올릴께요 크리스.. 그럴 말할 자격 없을텐데요.. 모든게 연관이 잇다는걸 .. 제가 감춰주는게 있다는걸 이해 못하는군요. 전 그럼 확인 갑니다
It seems that Chris is cutting out the front and back of the story. I will post my memory [of this] and after checking my email once I'm done with work... You're not qualified to say things like that... everything is connected... You don't understand that I'm trying to hide something for you.. then I will go check now.
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More or less. Sorry for the rough translation. Why is she always always so aggressive with her tweets....and why is she again ambiguously saying MMA did something wrong by saying she is trying to hide something from chris... in which part is she being ambiguous? and you can't fault her for being aggressive, i'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused me for doing something I've never done. From the beginning, she provided all the facts and the other side only gave assumptions. Not an iota of evidence has been out that disproves her story Jessica's been the aggressor since the beginning. Everyone else is playing defender. Funny you said you'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused you of doing something. How do you think MMA, Crank, Ryung, Alicia, and MC feel at the moment? Did anybody come up with any proof that disproved Jessica's statement? Jessica was the victim from the beginning basically MMA and Crank thought she was guilty of embezzling their funds and now she's just defending herself.
Not exactly, but they didnt think Jessica would secretly backstab them with proof she has been gathering. But even then she also didnt prove anything except for their horrible methods of trying to leave the team. It only reinforces the point that they really were trusting her.
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On October 25 2012 00:50 Raid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 20:22 ACrow wrote:On October 24 2012 18:12 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 18:07 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 17:37 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 17:20 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 17:08 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 16:52 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 16:45 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 16:40 Fubi wrote:
[quote]
The irony is, Jessica was the one that trusted manager J in the first place after meeting him for a few months, and gave him access to everything (seriously, even you email?). And you blame MMA for that? lol Jessica did not know. And she apologized for mistrusting this guy already. But for MMA, it is Boxer/Jessica's words against J's words. It is different. And from his interview, you can infer that even now he is still J's whore. I feel this maybe something to blame. From MMA's perspective, he was told that he had a personal sponsorship (FACT), and it got rejected (FACT). He went up to Boxer/Jessica to ask about it, they said no and started talking shit and started to treat him like a "cancer". He also wanted to leave the team to join a foreign team, and found one, but then Jessica requested a huge transfer fee, which caused the transfer to be cancelled. How can you fault someone for that? The way I see it is 1) Jessica really did do everything claimed so therefore it's not MMA's fault or 2) Manager J was behind the whole thing, and MMA trusted him wrongly, but then Jessica would of been blamed as well for trusting Manager J (which literally is the initial cause of this whole shit storm) So either way, I don't see how you can really fault MMA for this. Again, I'm not saying it is really Jessica's fault here, I'm just saying in most scenarios, I really see MMA as just the innocent victim here more than anything. your account is not true. You make it sound like Boxer and Jessica are being unreasonable. I just gonna comment on the cancer and sponsorship thing since the transfer fee incident is somewhat vague. (no parties have explained this yet) MMA's fault is, after Jessica clarified things. He should have trusted Jessica and let it go, or tell her about manager J saying shits. But he turned his back on someone who took care of him for 2 years and led him to his current success. He trusted this J guy. Which led him talking to people about this embezzlement in the team (this definitely happened no doubt) and make suspicion grow in the team house. Thus damaging the atmosphere. Obviously Alicia Ryung and Crank bought what MMA said and these people segregated themselves from the team. This is why Boxer said MMA is a cancer to the team and ask Ryung to make his own decision! Of course, Jessica made a huge mistake bringing in J. But this mistake is hard to avoid! Who would know J is such a man scum? However for MMA, he actually has 2 sides of the story ! however he chose to buy the side of story that feeds his ego. He turned his back against people who cared for him. And this is no less of a mistake that what Jessica did. you have to understand the issue here. If stranger A, B telling you different stories, and you trusted the wrong guy, it is not your fault. However if your mum and a stranger both claims the other is trying to hurt you, and you,carrying a gun, shot your mother instead of the stranger, something would be very wrong !!! But as I said, im not sure abt the transfer fees. Waiting for explanation But the reality is, from MMA's perspective, what Manager J told him is actually true: there WAS an offer and it DID get rejected. So any sane person would raise some suspicions. From MMA's words: "I got confused but I had no one talk to. My mind was heavily burdened for the weeks afterwards". So he went to talked to his best buddies. 100% normal for any person with this amount of shits happening to them. You're talking as if Jessica/Boxer was literally his foster parents that he had been known for his whole life. In reality, they aren't; he's been on the team for just 2 years, and afaik, Jessica doesn't even live in the team house, and Boxer only seldomly. If someone else that JESSICA TRUSTS (at that time, Jessica still trusted manager J given the fact that he was still dealing with all their sponsorship and foreign affairs) tells him something like that (and it actually DID happen), it is a completely understandable reaction for a 23 yrs old gamer to react the way MMA did. And even if you think MMA still has fault for some reason, it's definitely not big enough to warrant his career being ruined. [1)] Whether it did happen or did not is irrelevant to the issue. Did MMA actually personally check with Razor or whatever organization? From his interview I saw nothing of this sort. This incident is not about the truth. It is really about word of J against word of Jessica. MMA DID NOT try to find out the truth himself (if he did, things would not be like this right?) He just sided with one side's account of the sponsorship incident. You are saying MMA believes in J because Jessica believed in J, am i understanding this right? it does not seem to make any sense to me because J was telling him bad things Jessica did ! [2)] Jessica and Boxer certainly are not MMA's parents. But lets look at it this way. One side, are 2 people invested a lot of money and efforts in this team, who, please note here, DO NOT need that kind of money because they are good enough financially. The other hand, is manager J who worked in the team form 2 months. ( or longer, doesnt matter ) Isnt it a bit naive to believe in the latter? Lets face it, the reason why MMA believes in it so strongly even until today is because theory proposed by J feeds MMA's ego ! ( simulating MMA's brain activity would be like " Im so good, why dont i have a personal sponsor ! I must have received an offer like J said, but Jessica gave to Boxer ! ) I do not think MMA should get his career ruined. But he has to apologize. I can only imagine how hurt Boxer and Jessica are, seeing someone they cared turning his back against them. But obviously MMA did not offer any form of reasonable apology. His interview reads basically like " im fabulous, i did nothing wrong, but im going to apologize because Boxer and Jessica are older than me" 1) Wait what? You're saying the truth doesn't matter? So if my high-school teacher that I've had for 2 years was accused of stealing my very expensive watch, and in reality he really does have my watch, I shouldn't at the very least be suspicious? Seriously, 2 years isn't really a lot, especially for an employer that you rarely see. Also, are you really blaming the PLAYER for not going up to sponsors to clear up all the management stuff himself? seriously?? He went upfront to ask Jessica/Boxer about it, and that is as much a player really is responsible needs to do. It's the manager's job to dig to the end of things, find facts and provide proofs, give the players confidence and calm the crisis down. This part is clearly a management issue. MMA's job is to focus on his games, practice, and improve. 2) Like I said, it IS naive for MMA's to believe in J, but the same can be said about Jessica; she trusted him so much to give him access to her actual email account for crying out loud. And also, what I meant previously was, at the time that MMA was told and believed manager J's word, Jessica still had full trust in manager J at the same time. Secondly, yes, Slayers brought MMA up, but the same can be said the other way around. If it weren't for MMA, Slayers wouldn't have had the success they had. MMA literally carried the team to their first two consecutive GSTL victories, followed by second place at Super Tournament, followed by GSL champion at Blizzcon, followed by few MLG first and second places, IPL first place, then Bliz Cup championship at the end of the year, follow by Iron Squid champion. No one else on the team even had remotely anything near a championship at the time. So I would say for what Slayer's did for MMA, he equally gave back through his effort and hard work. Im done arguing with you. It is the same thing back and forth. I gave a thorough read on what you said and replied properly but you give a glance at what i said and twist my meanings. So I lost, you are right. *flies away* Don't be frustrated, I believe you guys don't really understand each other due to cultural differences. I, as a non-asian, have a hard time also to buy into this "always trust your elders", while for you and some other the biggest selling point seems to be that MMA and the others dared not to show enough respect to Jessica and Boxer. Luckily, it's not up to us to decide anything here, so we can just agree to disagree in this whole drama mess, and be respectful of the other side's point of view You have it all wrong. Its not to "always trust your elders" but to "always show respect to them." They are older than you and because they have lived longer you should not treat them at your ranks or lower. You could be a millionaire and have it all but you still got to show respect to someone older than you.
Even if they felt they were being abused? (not that i state that they were, just they felt bad in the enviroment)
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36902 Posts
On October 24 2012 14:24 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 14:21 m4inbrain wrote:Hm.. That's surprising. Could anyone translate these for me (roughly), pretty please? 크리스가 얘기를 앞뒤 상황잘라먹고 하는거 같네요 제 기억과 이메일 확인 작업후 올릴께요 크리스.. 그럴 말할 자격 없을텐데요.. 모든게 연관이 잇다는걸 .. 제가 감춰주는게 있다는걸 이해 못하는군요. 전 그럼 확인 갑니다 크리스..당신과 나는 새로운 스폰서쉅에 대해서 얘기하지 않고 J매니저와 얘기햇어요 이것이 레이저사의 입장인지.. J매니져와 대화햇던 크리스의 입장인지 명확히 밝히세요 그럼 나도 준비를 할께요 These are Jessicas last tweets (and i guess, they kinda answer to that Issue). I want to at least hear that, before i am deeply disappointed. Would be nice to have seeker here, that guy is so important.. He is the like the subs of korean variety shows, and that is saying how important he is.
lol.
Thanks for those kind words but I'm not the only translator on TL
That being said, I can't keep up with this thread so if things need to be translated, I would appreciate if ppl would PM them to me.
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On October 25 2012 00:56 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:34 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:32 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:24 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:20 ImNightmare wrote:On October 24 2012 15:17 lilsusie wrote:
KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
이것이 레이저사의 입장인지.. J매니져와 대화햇던 크리스의 입장인지 명확히 밝히세요 그럼 나도 준비를 할께요
Is this the perspective of Razer... or is it the opinion of Chris that Manager J has been talking to, please clarify. I will prepare.
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스..당신과 나는 새로운 스폰서쉅에 대해서 얘기하지 않고 J매니저와 얘기햇어요
Chris, you and I did not talk about a new sponsorship, you talked to Manager J
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스가 얘기를 앞뒤 상황잘라먹고 하는거 같네요 제 기억과 이메일 확인 작업후 올릴께요 크리스.. 그럴 말할 자격 없을텐데요.. 모든게 연관이 잇다는걸 .. 제가 감춰주는게 있다는걸 이해 못하는군요. 전 그럼 확인 갑니다
It seems that Chris is cutting out the front and back of the story. I will post my memory [of this] and after checking my email once I'm done with work... You're not qualified to say things like that... everything is connected... You don't understand that I'm trying to hide something for you.. then I will go check now.
---
More or less. Sorry for the rough translation. Why is she always always so aggressive with her tweets....and why is she again ambiguously saying MMA did something wrong by saying she is trying to hide something from chris... in which part is she being ambiguous? and you can't fault her for being aggressive, i'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused me for doing something I've never done. From the beginning, she provided all the facts and the other side only gave assumptions. Not an iota of evidence has been out that disproves her story Jessica's been the aggressor since the beginning. Everyone else is playing defender. Funny you said you'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused you of doing something. How do you think MMA, Crank, Ryung, Alicia, and MC feel at the moment? Did anybody come up with any proof that disproved Jessica's statement? Jessica was the victim from the beginning basically MMA and Crank thought she was guilty of embezzling their funds and now she's just defending herself. Not exactly, but they didnt think Jessica would secretly backstab them with proof she has been gathering. But even then she also didnt prove anything except for their horrible methods of trying to leave the team. It only reinforces the point that they really were trusting her.
oh now you're blaming Jessica for gathering evidence. if Jessica didn't have those evidence i'd imagine people would actually believe all the lies those guys are feeding the media. all those guys have been lying and they have been disproved by Jessica and who do you blame? Jessica. when they slander Jessica, its a "misunderstanding" whereas when Jessica defends herself by providing real hard "evidence" and "facts", she's creating "drama". And seriously you say that MMA and Crank were trusting Jessica? guess who was backstabbing when they were plotting to leave the team and spreading false rumor that Jessica was embezzling their money
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On October 25 2012 01:09 dongmydrum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:56 NightOfTheDead wrote:On October 24 2012 15:34 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:32 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:24 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:20 ImNightmare wrote:On October 24 2012 15:17 lilsusie wrote:
KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
이것이 레이저사의 입장인지.. J매니져와 대화햇던 크리스의 입장인지 명확히 밝히세요 그럼 나도 준비를 할께요
Is this the perspective of Razer... or is it the opinion of Chris that Manager J has been talking to, please clarify. I will prepare.
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스..당신과 나는 새로운 스폰서쉅에 대해서 얘기하지 않고 J매니저와 얘기햇어요
Chris, you and I did not talk about a new sponsorship, you talked to Manager J
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스가 얘기를 앞뒤 상황잘라먹고 하는거 같네요 제 기억과 이메일 확인 작업후 올릴께요 크리스.. 그럴 말할 자격 없을텐데요.. 모든게 연관이 잇다는걸 .. 제가 감춰주는게 있다는걸 이해 못하는군요. 전 그럼 확인 갑니다
It seems that Chris is cutting out the front and back of the story. I will post my memory [of this] and after checking my email once I'm done with work... You're not qualified to say things like that... everything is connected... You don't understand that I'm trying to hide something for you.. then I will go check now.
---
More or less. Sorry for the rough translation. Why is she always always so aggressive with her tweets....and why is she again ambiguously saying MMA did something wrong by saying she is trying to hide something from chris... in which part is she being ambiguous? and you can't fault her for being aggressive, i'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused me for doing something I've never done. From the beginning, she provided all the facts and the other side only gave assumptions. Not an iota of evidence has been out that disproves her story Jessica's been the aggressor since the beginning. Everyone else is playing defender. Funny you said you'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused you of doing something. How do you think MMA, Crank, Ryung, Alicia, and MC feel at the moment? Did anybody come up with any proof that disproved Jessica's statement? Jessica was the victim from the beginning basically MMA and Crank thought she was guilty of embezzling their funds and now she's just defending herself. Not exactly, but they didnt think Jessica would secretly backstab them with proof she has been gathering. But even then she also didnt prove anything except for their horrible methods of trying to leave the team. It only reinforces the point that they really were trusting her. oh now you're blaming Jessica for gathering evidence. if Jessica didn't have those evidence i'd imagine people would actually believe all the lies those guys are feeding the media. all those guys have been lying and they have been disproved by Jessica and who do you blame? Jessica. when they slander Jessica, its a "misunderstanding" whereas when Jessica defends herself by providing real hard "evidence" and "facts", she's creating "drama". And seriously you say that MMA and Crank were trusting Jessica? guess who was backstabbing when they were plotting to leave the team and spreading false rumor that Jessica was embezzling their money
So its a conspiracy of several players who are just greedy bastards and wanted to get rich quick and not an incompetent manager (Jessica) who mishandled the team in such a way that they just had to leave? It obviously makes more sense to spin a conspiracy theory about several people acting together than one incompetent person (who actually owns and thus is responsible for the team) ruining it.
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On October 25 2012 01:09 dongmydrum wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 00:56 NightOfTheDead wrote:On October 24 2012 15:34 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:32 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:24 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:20 ImNightmare wrote:On October 24 2012 15:17 lilsusie wrote:
KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
이것이 레이저사의 입장인지.. J매니져와 대화햇던 크리스의 입장인지 명확히 밝히세요 그럼 나도 준비를 할께요
Is this the perspective of Razer... or is it the opinion of Chris that Manager J has been talking to, please clarify. I will prepare.
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스..당신과 나는 새로운 스폰서쉅에 대해서 얘기하지 않고 J매니저와 얘기햇어요
Chris, you and I did not talk about a new sponsorship, you talked to Manager J
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스가 얘기를 앞뒤 상황잘라먹고 하는거 같네요 제 기억과 이메일 확인 작업후 올릴께요 크리스.. 그럴 말할 자격 없을텐데요.. 모든게 연관이 잇다는걸 .. 제가 감춰주는게 있다는걸 이해 못하는군요. 전 그럼 확인 갑니다
It seems that Chris is cutting out the front and back of the story. I will post my memory [of this] and after checking my email once I'm done with work... You're not qualified to say things like that... everything is connected... You don't understand that I'm trying to hide something for you.. then I will go check now.
---
More or less. Sorry for the rough translation. Why is she always always so aggressive with her tweets....and why is she again ambiguously saying MMA did something wrong by saying she is trying to hide something from chris... in which part is she being ambiguous? and you can't fault her for being aggressive, i'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused me for doing something I've never done. From the beginning, she provided all the facts and the other side only gave assumptions. Not an iota of evidence has been out that disproves her story Jessica's been the aggressor since the beginning. Everyone else is playing defender. Funny you said you'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused you of doing something. How do you think MMA, Crank, Ryung, Alicia, and MC feel at the moment? Did anybody come up with any proof that disproved Jessica's statement? Jessica was the victim from the beginning basically MMA and Crank thought she was guilty of embezzling their funds and now she's just defending herself. Not exactly, but they didnt think Jessica would secretly backstab them with proof she has been gathering. But even then she also didnt prove anything except for their horrible methods of trying to leave the team. It only reinforces the point that they really were trusting her. oh now you're blaming Jessica for gathering evidence. if Jessica didn't have those evidence i'd imagine people would actually believe all the lies those guys are feeding the media. all those guys have been lying and they have been disproved by Jessica and who do you blame? Jessica. when they slander Jessica, its a "misunderstanding" whereas when Jessica defends herself by providing real hard "evidence" and "facts", she's creating "drama". And seriously you say that MMA and Crank were trusting Jessica? guess who was backstabbing when they were plotting to leave the team and spreading false rumor that Jessica was embezzling their money
They were trusting her enough to think that she would settle things with them in private. Guess what, she didnt care going private (she wouldnt start gathering evidence otherwise).
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On October 25 2012 01:16 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 01:09 dongmydrum wrote:On October 25 2012 00:56 NightOfTheDead wrote:On October 24 2012 15:34 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:32 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:24 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:20 ImNightmare wrote:On October 24 2012 15:17 lilsusie wrote:
KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
이것이 레이저사의 입장인지.. J매니져와 대화햇던 크리스의 입장인지 명확히 밝히세요 그럼 나도 준비를 할께요
Is this the perspective of Razer... or is it the opinion of Chris that Manager J has been talking to, please clarify. I will prepare.
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스..당신과 나는 새로운 스폰서쉅에 대해서 얘기하지 않고 J매니저와 얘기햇어요
Chris, you and I did not talk about a new sponsorship, you talked to Manager J
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스가 얘기를 앞뒤 상황잘라먹고 하는거 같네요 제 기억과 이메일 확인 작업후 올릴께요 크리스.. 그럴 말할 자격 없을텐데요.. 모든게 연관이 잇다는걸 .. 제가 감춰주는게 있다는걸 이해 못하는군요. 전 그럼 확인 갑니다
It seems that Chris is cutting out the front and back of the story. I will post my memory [of this] and after checking my email once I'm done with work... You're not qualified to say things like that... everything is connected... You don't understand that I'm trying to hide something for you.. then I will go check now.
---
More or less. Sorry for the rough translation. Why is she always always so aggressive with her tweets....and why is she again ambiguously saying MMA did something wrong by saying she is trying to hide something from chris... in which part is she being ambiguous? and you can't fault her for being aggressive, i'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused me for doing something I've never done. From the beginning, she provided all the facts and the other side only gave assumptions. Not an iota of evidence has been out that disproves her story Jessica's been the aggressor since the beginning. Everyone else is playing defender. Funny you said you'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused you of doing something. How do you think MMA, Crank, Ryung, Alicia, and MC feel at the moment? Did anybody come up with any proof that disproved Jessica's statement? Jessica was the victim from the beginning basically MMA and Crank thought she was guilty of embezzling their funds and now she's just defending herself. Not exactly, but they didnt think Jessica would secretly backstab them with proof she has been gathering. But even then she also didnt prove anything except for their horrible methods of trying to leave the team. It only reinforces the point that they really were trusting her. oh now you're blaming Jessica for gathering evidence. if Jessica didn't have those evidence i'd imagine people would actually believe all the lies those guys are feeding the media. all those guys have been lying and they have been disproved by Jessica and who do you blame? Jessica. when they slander Jessica, its a "misunderstanding" whereas when Jessica defends herself by providing real hard "evidence" and "facts", she's creating "drama". And seriously you say that MMA and Crank were trusting Jessica? guess who was backstabbing when they were plotting to leave the team and spreading false rumor that Jessica was embezzling their money They were trusting her enough to think that she would settle things with them in private. Guess what, she didnt care going private (she wouldnt start gathering evidence otherwise).
Oh no. that's like stealing your friend's money and "trust" your friend that they won't go to the police. They wreaked her team why should she keep quiet
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On October 25 2012 01:16 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 01:09 dongmydrum wrote:On October 25 2012 00:56 NightOfTheDead wrote:On October 24 2012 15:34 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:32 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:24 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:20 ImNightmare wrote:On October 24 2012 15:17 lilsusie wrote:
KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
이것이 레이저사의 입장인지.. J매니져와 대화햇던 크리스의 입장인지 명확히 밝히세요 그럼 나도 준비를 할께요
Is this the perspective of Razer... or is it the opinion of Chris that Manager J has been talking to, please clarify. I will prepare.
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스..당신과 나는 새로운 스폰서쉅에 대해서 얘기하지 않고 J매니저와 얘기햇어요
Chris, you and I did not talk about a new sponsorship, you talked to Manager J
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스가 얘기를 앞뒤 상황잘라먹고 하는거 같네요 제 기억과 이메일 확인 작업후 올릴께요 크리스.. 그럴 말할 자격 없을텐데요.. 모든게 연관이 잇다는걸 .. 제가 감춰주는게 있다는걸 이해 못하는군요. 전 그럼 확인 갑니다
It seems that Chris is cutting out the front and back of the story. I will post my memory [of this] and after checking my email once I'm done with work... You're not qualified to say things like that... everything is connected... You don't understand that I'm trying to hide something for you.. then I will go check now.
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More or less. Sorry for the rough translation. Why is she always always so aggressive with her tweets....and why is she again ambiguously saying MMA did something wrong by saying she is trying to hide something from chris... in which part is she being ambiguous? and you can't fault her for being aggressive, i'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused me for doing something I've never done. From the beginning, she provided all the facts and the other side only gave assumptions. Not an iota of evidence has been out that disproves her story Jessica's been the aggressor since the beginning. Everyone else is playing defender. Funny you said you'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused you of doing something. How do you think MMA, Crank, Ryung, Alicia, and MC feel at the moment? Did anybody come up with any proof that disproved Jessica's statement? Jessica was the victim from the beginning basically MMA and Crank thought she was guilty of embezzling their funds and now she's just defending herself. Not exactly, but they didnt think Jessica would secretly backstab them with proof she has been gathering. But even then she also didnt prove anything except for their horrible methods of trying to leave the team. It only reinforces the point that they really were trusting her. oh now you're blaming Jessica for gathering evidence. if Jessica didn't have those evidence i'd imagine people would actually believe all the lies those guys are feeding the media. all those guys have been lying and they have been disproved by Jessica and who do you blame? Jessica. when they slander Jessica, its a "misunderstanding" whereas when Jessica defends herself by providing real hard "evidence" and "facts", she's creating "drama". And seriously you say that MMA and Crank were trusting Jessica? guess who was backstabbing when they were plotting to leave the team and spreading false rumor that Jessica was embezzling their money So its a conspiracy of several players who are just greedy bastards and wanted to get rich quick and not an incompetent manager (Jessica) who mishandled the team in such a way that they just had to leave? It obviously makes more sense to spin a conspiracy theory about several people acting together than one incompetent person (who actually owns and thus is responsible for the team) ruining it.
Except that we don't need to do any theorizing because we are given all the facts and what ESF, MMA and Crank said do not disprove her story
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On October 25 2012 00:56 NightOfTheDead wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 15:34 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:32 DrakeFZX3 wrote:On October 24 2012 15:24 dongmydrum wrote:On October 24 2012 15:20 ImNightmare wrote:On October 24 2012 15:17 lilsusie wrote:
KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
이것이 레이저사의 입장인지.. J매니져와 대화햇던 크리스의 입장인지 명확히 밝히세요 그럼 나도 준비를 할께요
Is this the perspective of Razer... or is it the opinion of Chris that Manager J has been talking to, please clarify. I will prepare.
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스..당신과 나는 새로운 스폰서쉅에 대해서 얘기하지 않고 J매니저와 얘기햇어요
Chris, you and I did not talk about a new sponsorship, you talked to Manager J
1h KimKaYeon @SlayerS_Jessica
크리스가 얘기를 앞뒤 상황잘라먹고 하는거 같네요 제 기억과 이메일 확인 작업후 올릴께요 크리스.. 그럴 말할 자격 없을텐데요.. 모든게 연관이 잇다는걸 .. 제가 감춰주는게 있다는걸 이해 못하는군요. 전 그럼 확인 갑니다
It seems that Chris is cutting out the front and back of the story. I will post my memory [of this] and after checking my email once I'm done with work... You're not qualified to say things like that... everything is connected... You don't understand that I'm trying to hide something for you.. then I will go check now.
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More or less. Sorry for the rough translation. Why is she always always so aggressive with her tweets....and why is she again ambiguously saying MMA did something wrong by saying she is trying to hide something from chris... in which part is she being ambiguous? and you can't fault her for being aggressive, i'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused me for doing something I've never done. From the beginning, she provided all the facts and the other side only gave assumptions. Not an iota of evidence has been out that disproves her story Jessica's been the aggressor since the beginning. Everyone else is playing defender. Funny you said you'd go bat shit crazy if someone accused you of doing something. How do you think MMA, Crank, Ryung, Alicia, and MC feel at the moment? Did anybody come up with any proof that disproved Jessica's statement? Jessica was the victim from the beginning basically MMA and Crank thought she was guilty of embezzling their funds and now she's just defending herself. Not exactly, but they didnt think Jessica would secretly backstab them with proof she has been gathering. But even then she also didnt prove anything except for their horrible methods of trying to leave the team. It only reinforces the point that they really were trusting her.
Well, there's evidence from sources that Slasher has that her request for a large transfer fee at one point stopped MMA from changing teams, which was straight up denied by Jessica at one point. Jessica has now revealed that she told a team that they might as well spend their money acquiring the whole team and not acquire MMA if they wanted to spend money and wasn't heard back from due to the other team not contacting her after hearing that bit of information. She claims that even though she didn't receive a reply after saying that, that it wasn't a failed negotiation because she replied and asked for a whole team acquisition, which would include MMA, so she did attempt to transfer him without a "transfer fee". I can see the reasoning there but that is INCREDIBLY nitpicking on her part to claim there wasn't a "big" transfer fee when she says that they might as well buy the whole team if they want MMA.
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Has there been any discussion about what can be lost in translation? The problem with this "evidence" is English speakers are reading a literal translation, missing meanings that often do not carry over well from language to language. I used to work for a large translation company and there is a reason why multiple linguists were used to cross check and discuss work with each other.
As a result, there's no way English speakers including myself can justify our opinions.
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On October 24 2012 20:22 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 18:12 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 18:07 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 17:37 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 17:20 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 17:08 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 16:52 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 16:45 Xiaopewpew wrote:On October 24 2012 16:40 Fubi wrote:On October 24 2012 16:03 Xiaopewpew wrote:
[quote]
Jawy ! nobody is bashing MMA in these pages.... T.T why cant you get it T.T this is too hard !!! T.T we are just discussing if Jessica is innocent in the sponsorship thing T.T
On the other hand, it is clear now that both Jessica and MMA's accounts are true regarding the sponsorship thing. MMA believed manager J and later acted like a dxxx while Jessica was really hurt and saw MMA misbehaving and accused him of damaging the house's atmosphere. A huge misunderstanding.
Now im bashing MMA a little ! I would say it is very weird that he trusted someone he knew for only a few months instead of trusting Boxer and Jessica who brought him to the esports scene and took care of him for so long. I can understand how hurt Boxer and Jessica must be.
The irony is, Jessica was the one that trusted manager J in the first place after meeting him for a few months, and gave him access to everything (seriously, even you email?). And you blame MMA for that? lol Jessica did not know. And she apologized for mistrusting this guy already. But for MMA, it is Boxer/Jessica's words against J's words. It is different. And from his interview, you can infer that even now he is still J's whore. I feel this maybe something to blame. From MMA's perspective, he was told that he had a personal sponsorship (FACT), and it got rejected (FACT). He went up to Boxer/Jessica to ask about it, they said no and started talking shit and started to treat him like a "cancer". He also wanted to leave the team to join a foreign team, and found one, but then Jessica requested a huge transfer fee, which caused the transfer to be cancelled. How can you fault someone for that? The way I see it is 1) Jessica really did do everything claimed so therefore it's not MMA's fault or 2) Manager J was behind the whole thing, and MMA trusted him wrongly, but then Jessica would of been blamed as well for trusting Manager J (which literally is the initial cause of this whole shit storm) So either way, I don't see how you can really fault MMA for this. Again, I'm not saying it is really Jessica's fault here, I'm just saying in most scenarios, I really see MMA as just the innocent victim here more than anything. your account is not true. You make it sound like Boxer and Jessica are being unreasonable. I just gonna comment on the cancer and sponsorship thing since the transfer fee incident is somewhat vague. (no parties have explained this yet) MMA's fault is, after Jessica clarified things. He should have trusted Jessica and let it go, or tell her about manager J saying shits. But he turned his back on someone who took care of him for 2 years and led him to his current success. He trusted this J guy. Which led him talking to people about this embezzlement in the team (this definitely happened no doubt) and make suspicion grow in the team house. Thus damaging the atmosphere. Obviously Alicia Ryung and Crank bought what MMA said and these people segregated themselves from the team. This is why Boxer said MMA is a cancer to the team and ask Ryung to make his own decision! Of course, Jessica made a huge mistake bringing in J. But this mistake is hard to avoid! Who would know J is such a man scum? However for MMA, he actually has 2 sides of the story ! however he chose to buy the side of story that feeds his ego. He turned his back against people who cared for him. And this is no less of a mistake that what Jessica did. you have to understand the issue here. If stranger A, B telling you different stories, and you trusted the wrong guy, it is not your fault. However if your mum and a stranger both claims the other is trying to hurt you, and you,carrying a gun, shot your mother instead of the stranger, something would be very wrong !!! But as I said, im not sure abt the transfer fees. Waiting for explanation But the reality is, from MMA's perspective, what Manager J told him is actually true: there WAS an offer and it DID get rejected. So any sane person would raise some suspicions. From MMA's words: "I got confused but I had no one talk to. My mind was heavily burdened for the weeks afterwards". So he went to talked to his best buddies. 100% normal for any person with this amount of shits happening to them. You're talking as if Jessica/Boxer was literally his foster parents that he had been known for his whole life. In reality, they aren't; he's been on the team for just 2 years, and afaik, Jessica doesn't even live in the team house, and Boxer only seldomly. If someone else that JESSICA TRUSTS (at that time, Jessica still trusted manager J given the fact that he was still dealing with all their sponsorship and foreign affairs) tells him something like that (and it actually DID happen), it is a completely understandable reaction for a 23 yrs old gamer to react the way MMA did. And even if you think MMA still has fault for some reason, it's definitely not big enough to warrant his career being ruined. [1)] Whether it did happen or did not is irrelevant to the issue. Did MMA actually personally check with Razor or whatever organization? From his interview I saw nothing of this sort. This incident is not about the truth. It is really about word of J against word of Jessica. MMA DID NOT try to find out the truth himself (if he did, things would not be like this right?) He just sided with one side's account of the sponsorship incident. You are saying MMA believes in J because Jessica believed in J, am i understanding this right? it does not seem to make any sense to me because J was telling him bad things Jessica did ! [2)] Jessica and Boxer certainly are not MMA's parents. But lets look at it this way. One side, are 2 people invested a lot of money and efforts in this team, who, please note here, DO NOT need that kind of money because they are good enough financially. The other hand, is manager J who worked in the team form 2 months. ( or longer, doesnt matter ) Isnt it a bit naive to believe in the latter? Lets face it, the reason why MMA believes in it so strongly even until today is because theory proposed by J feeds MMA's ego ! ( simulating MMA's brain activity would be like " Im so good, why dont i have a personal sponsor ! I must have received an offer like J said, but Jessica gave to Boxer ! ) I do not think MMA should get his career ruined. But he has to apologize. I can only imagine how hurt Boxer and Jessica are, seeing someone they cared turning his back against them. But obviously MMA did not offer any form of reasonable apology. His interview reads basically like " im fabulous, i did nothing wrong, but im going to apologize because Boxer and Jessica are older than me" 1) Wait what? You're saying the truth doesn't matter? So if my high-school teacher that I've had for 2 years was accused of stealing my very expensive watch, and in reality he really does have my watch, I shouldn't at the very least be suspicious? Seriously, 2 years isn't really a lot, especially for an employer that you rarely see. Also, are you really blaming the PLAYER for not going up to sponsors to clear up all the management stuff himself? seriously?? He went upfront to ask Jessica/Boxer about it, and that is as much a player really is responsible needs to do. It's the manager's job to dig to the end of things, find facts and provide proofs, give the players confidence and calm the crisis down. This part is clearly a management issue. MMA's job is to focus on his games, practice, and improve. 2) Like I said, it IS naive for MMA's to believe in J, but the same can be said about Jessica; she trusted him so much to give him access to her actual email account for crying out loud. And also, what I meant previously was, at the time that MMA was told and believed manager J's word, Jessica still had full trust in manager J at the same time. Secondly, yes, Slayers brought MMA up, but the same can be said the other way around. If it weren't for MMA, Slayers wouldn't have had the success they had. MMA literally carried the team to their first two consecutive GSTL victories, followed by second place at Super Tournament, followed by GSL champion at Blizzcon, followed by few MLG first and second places, IPL first place, then Bliz Cup championship at the end of the year, follow by Iron Squid champion. No one else on the team even had remotely anything near a championship at the time. So I would say for what Slayer's did for MMA, he equally gave back through his effort and hard work. Im done arguing with you. It is the same thing back and forth. I gave a thorough read on what you said and replied properly but you give a glance at what i said and twist my meanings. So I lost, you are right. *flies away* Don't be frustrated, I believe you guys don't really understand each other due to cultural differences. I, as a non-asian, have a hard time also to buy into this "always trust your elders", while for you and some other the biggest selling point seems to be that MMA and the others dared not to show enough respect to Jessica and Boxer. Luckily, it's not up to us to decide anything here, so we can just agree to disagree in this whole drama mess, and be respectful of the other side's point of view
First thanks for trying to clear things out.
But that is so not what I meant........... And this is exactly what I meant in "Im done arguing with you post"
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On a side note, MMA had known Boxer for much, much longer than 2 years, and owes Boxer a lot outside of Slayers. He's been introduced to SKT by Boxer, and when that didn't work out for him, it was Boxer who brought him into Starcraft 2 and team Slayers. Without Boxer, MMA would almost certainly never even become a progamer.
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On October 25 2012 02:46 Salazarz wrote:
On a side note, MMA had known Boxer for much, much longer than 2 years, and owes Boxer a lot outside of Slayers. He's been introduced to SKT by Boxer, and when that didn't work out for him, it was Boxer who brought him into Starcraft 2 and team Slayers. Without Boxer, MMA would almost certainly never even become a progamer.
You make good point, but i dont think MMA was intently trying to hurt Boxer He had some good achievements in SC2, and wanted to make his career even better. All this talk about money-grabbing is BS, cause that's what all players trying to achieve. Make a living, make money They are not for some charity in there. He is SC2 pro, he had results, he wasnt satisfied how he end up, he wanted to leave.And of course Boxer couldnt be happy about that. Period.
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EPT
