EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 62
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 08 2012 03:58 Ange777 wrote: Actually I already finished mine and can't wait to post it :D Don't post it yet, we don't want to give the last scum any more information than he needs. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
Read through his filter please. Even compared with aRyuujin's filter it is rather sparse, especially when you look for any kind of clear stances and opinions. Alan has been sheeping town and only giving us few content posts. DarthPunk is not even once mentioned by Alan until late day 3. I don't know why he would not address DarthPunk in his posts except for being scum. Not to mention that he also didn't talk to/about Zork (besides replying to a "Why haven't you answered yet post") before the case against Zork gained momentum. Go and look at Jingle's case on Alan which points to a few of those suspicious posts from Alan: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=46#908 This alone would not be damning enough in my eyes if it wasn't for his wishy-washy stance regarding the DarthPunk lynch. He claimed that he is 100% convinced that Jingle is scum but still would be lynching his only second best scum read DarthPunk. I don't know how he went from not mentioning DarthPunk even once to him being his second best scum read. Such a sad thing that scum has not learned how to bus right? On August 05 2012 18:26 alan133 wrote: @Ange Yes, I am leaning towards a scum Jingle for the same reasons. His shift his FOS towards me seems like a desperation move to shift the focus away from himself. I think even a townie Jingle would be more careful when he suggest a new lynch, as the town's goal is to lynch scum, not just to survive. -snip- @DarthPunk The conclusion I made above convinced me DarthPunk is the potential last scum, given that no bussing occurred. I went through his huge filter and was hoping to find one slip that can nail him, and have yet to find anything substantial. His blatant defences on Zorkmid is definitely scum motivated, and I know I also "defended" zorkmid, I hope you all see that I have been consistent with defending people who I thought was being called out for the wrong reasons. I would like to put my vote on VOTE## JingleHell, and FOS## DarthPunk. I believe we got this in the bag  On August 07 2012 00:10 alan133 wrote: @Shady I started writing my case not long ago. But if you want to make the final decision, I will keep my vote on JH, but is fine with changing it to DP. Both are the scums in my eyes and it does not matter who gets lynched first. On August 07 2012 00:27 alan133 wrote: I am back from a long day. I thought Jingle is certainly getting lynched the last time I post, so I did not sneak out to check on this thread during work today. In my eyes, he is as close as to scum as it can get without flipping. -snip- @Jingle His recent post has somewhat improved; he stopped the tunnelling thing and moved on to OMGUS town. (lol) There are no follow up to my case, and no follow up to Good Karma’s either. However, his reaction to DP’s scum slip seems very believable, and the counter-vote seems to give him huge townie points. It could be another attempt to “seems pro town” by “catching” DP, as DP has gained quite a lot of FOS-momentum at that point. [spoiler]WIFOM: Could it be scums trying to sacrifice another scummate so the last one can gain a more advantages spot? I think this is very unlikely, but no entirely impossible.[/spoiler]Also, he refused to defend attacks, and disregard all of them as WIFOM and since then only passively comment on cases, after the DP vote. @DarthPunk I said I could not find any scummy things to penalize him in his huge filter, how eager is he to prove me wrong. I am sure many has caught and mentioned his scum slip ever since he started defending himself.(Oh the irony) Even Jingle himself talks about his “slip”. I would like to know, why Jingle gives you a townie vibe, other than that you yourself is getting tunnelled right now? I would also like to add that that was posted before you were tunnelled, so any other reasons? No? Also, this: If shady votes for me I will vote for myself etc Well, in this case, if you are a town, you are allowing town to mislynch you-an anti-town play. If you are a scum, then LOL. Please tell me this is not a slip? If you intend to buy “townie points” with this, then you failed miserably. Town wants to lynch scum, not martyr himself to prove he is town. I am fine with voting any of these two players, but I will keep my vote on Jingle for the moment. I think we got both scums. When reading the above quotes it makes you really wonder how much more wishy-washy and flip flop a post can get. A summary of the above quotes would look like this: - Alan thinks Jingle is scum -> Vote Jingle - Alan thinks DarthPunk might be scum -> FoS Jingle - Alan thinks both are scum and would vote both but keeps his vote on Jingle - Alan thinks Jingle is the most scummy player - Alan thinks Jingle's posting has improved but WIFOMs it - Alan confronts DarthPunk about his slips and anti-town play and wants explanations - Alan is fine with voting both players but keeps his vote on Jingle Not once in these posts does he take a clear stance. Instead in one single post he first claims Jingle to be the scummiest, than proceeds to praise his improved townie posting and soft-defends him, than goes on to WIFOM about scum motivation and ends in confirming his vote on Jingle. Seriously? This looks a lot like a desperate scum trying to to balance to many things at once: 1. Pushing for a mislynch while soft-defending the lynch candidate. 2. Subtly implying that his scum buddy is not as scummy as the other lynch candidate and therefore should not be voted first. 3. Bussing his scum buddy when all hopes are lost to survive the next lynch himself. So I hope this can convince you of Alan's scum-alignment. How else would you explain the flip flop play in the last hours before a lynch of his scum buddy? Alan is scum! Don't get uncertain by his defense because if he had believed what he wrote, he would have actually voted DarthPunk as he claimed that in his eyes Jingle got a bit of town cred. *Yes, this scenario is based on the town Jingle theory which I think should be the most probable right now. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
JingleHell, Alan, and aRyuujin are my scum reads. JingleHell first, Alan second, aRyuu third. I am a firm believer that scum were piled on the Mordanis lynch up until I switched my vote to Zorkmid. Out of the Mordanis Five, Zork and Darth have already flipped scum. The remaining three are listed above. I think that JingleHell is a likely scum, and that the move by JingleHell to quickly vote Darthpunk was a bussing gesture. The whole thing with Darth defending JingleHell but JingleHell accusing Darth out of the blue just seems really fishy to me. Especially from this post onwards: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=56#1102 Darth's defense of JingleHell, like Zork's medic "breadcrumb", are both suspciously bad. His townie read on JingleHell finally extends to a discussion about JH's stubbornness and even to his style of speaking on the tech boards, which is completely WIFOM and nearly useless. So basically we discount what Darth and JH posted. So what about JH then? These are the main cases on him: + Show Spoiler [My case] + On August 04 2012 06:39 Shady Sands wrote: Okie dokie town. We've just had our first big lynch of the game. So congratulations. That being said, I think there's a pretty high chance I'll get shot tonight. So before I go, I'd like to at least have a few hours of discussion. My thesis: I have found the next scum. How? Look at these two posts: Zork did a fake doctor roleclaim. His first post at 2 PM seems like a decent roleclaiming post. People ask for clues, and then he dumps the shittiest clue ever. Why? When I first read it, I thought they were trying to bait the real doctor into claiming, but if they wanted to do that, the clue had to have been good and convincing to regular townies. But then look at the claim/breadcrumb above. Good? Convincing? No, it almost looked like those two Olympics badminton pairs that were both trying to lose so they could get a better quarterfinals draw. There's no way a claim, even a fake claim, would be this poorly executed. It's so bad that its goal, which is making the real doctor counter-claim him, simply isn't possible with such a bad claim. So clearly, something is wrong here. This claim, in terms of outing the doctor, doesn't make sense. Nobody would believe him. But Zork is scum--he had to have been doing something. It's so obviously false it was immediately shot down. There's almost no chance the real doctor will counter claim. So what's the purpose of this claim? Look at what happened in the thread three minutes after Zork made his "breadcrumb": Golly, pretty fast, no? Put on your hats for a second: What if the point of the claim is to give cover for scum to switch their vote? Now let's entertain this theory for a moment, and go digging through Jinglehell's post history. He starts by targeting both me and Keir: Then what happens? Keir gets nightkilled. Then I claim and JH posts on Ange777: + Show Spoiler [Posts on Ange777] + On August 03 2012 01:18 JingleHell wrote: This isn't a defense. You aren't showing me a town motive. You're dismissing a question. That's not a quick read. That's called discussing things and looking for potential slips. It's how I work. Don't like it? Too bad. Frankly, it looks like you're trying to push me into playing differently because you don't like what I said, with an implicit threat to try and get me lynched if I don't do what you want. It's shady as all hell. ##Vote Ange777 Now, if you want to have any hope of my vote changing, you'll explain a town motive for your play regarding myself and Shady, rather than trying to turn things back on me, which is scum behavior. Funny how all of a sudden you don't like the unbiased outsider when he sees something you said as funny. On August 03 2012 03:35 JingleHell wrote: Dear you: You're either trying to get me to answer for the terrible play of the guy I replaced, or asking me to do things I've already explained why I don't want to do. When I ask you what your motive is for something, you both OMGUS me and try to make it sound like I'm the one dropping an OMGUS. Yes, I find that scummy. Start defending yourself. Attacking me does not qualify as a defense. But his accusations on Ange don't get traction, then posts a one liner to justify his vote on GK: Then flips to vote Mordanis to "counter Ange and GK." So basically no good reason to vote for Mord. This is where things get a little interesting, because around this time, he makes this post: First off, there's no need to talk about what scum might or might not be doing in the main thread--that gives scum chances to improve their behavior. Second, he's basically saying that scum are probably split between Mord and Zork, except him and Zork both piled on Mordanis. Unless JingleHell somehow knew that Zork would flip red, why would he make this post? This is almost a defense post from JingleHell, in defense of a red flip (Zorkmid) that hasn't happened yet. Then of course you get that little charade with Zorkmid's fakeclaim and Mordanis immediately calling him out on it. JingleHell feels so eager to make fun of Zork that he ridicules it 3 times in a row: From a town perspective, there's no need to gloat about the fakeclaim at all to justify a vote switch. There's no need to guess about what the scum might or might not be doing in the main thread. There's also no reason to say scum is split or not split when you are voting on the same side that scum is, before you even find out they're scum. There's no reason at all to do any of this... except if you are scum. This was the first scum mistake, town. Treasure it. And if I die tonight, don't let this opportunity go to waste. ##Vote JingleHell + Show Spoiler [Alan's case] + On August 04 2012 17:15 alan133 wrote: Just woke up, good job getting scum! @Jingle Why did I not vote for Zork Because Mordanis has not answered my case against him, and I don't think it is entirely OMGUS and has some valid point in it. Disagree if you want, but at that moment I think Mordanis is than Zork. Zork was never really interested in anyone except for maybe GoodKarma, if I was not wrong? Zork's "breadcrumb". Judging from the content of the breadcrumb and the location of the post he quoted for the breadcrumb, it is obvious to me this is a scum trying to take down a blue with him. If you noticed that was my first post, and it was fairly early in the game with little scum hunting going on. I said him starting the scum hunting is a huge townie trait for him, suggest it could be WIFOMed into saying it has scum motivation, but I did not use them in my argument. I defended Golbat and push for Shady lynch. I believe Shady is scum while Golbat is playing badly as a newbie town, so I am pushing for a Shady lynch. The "creating distance" is another fantasy of yours. I thought Zork's angry reaction was a town trait. I made my stance on him based on that. I was following that game because I missed it, and my impression was you caught the first scum. Scum was in a fairly strong position right now and I was hoping you to tip the balance. I don't think this is entirely OMGUS. My case on him was not based on my own speculation or fantasies. It is based on reading his filter in general, and the small things that I picked up along the way. How about stating a townie motivation for:
+ Show Spoiler [Ange's case on Jingle] + On August 03 2012 03:02 Ange777 wrote: This case against me is simply bad. I'll start from the beginning: You are asking me for a town motivation for asking about your scum reads? Since when is it scummy to pressure others for their reads especially when that player has not taken any stance at all in the game? I have been completely open with whoever I thought was suspicious and posted cases or questions regarding those players. You just subbed in. We don't know anything about your alignment. Of course it is in the interest of town to get an understanding for whom you believe is suspicious. You saw my explanation: Because you were not involved in previous discussion, you were unbiased and therefore perfectly able to judge what we had posted. Keir agreed with me in this point as well. Then you accuse me of setting you up for a mislynch. You seem to have a brilliant imagination for I can't make up my mind why you would think that. I have stated my suspicions about Shady several times. Giving one's read before the night ends is perfectly normal as I could have died that night and I wanted to make sure that everyone knows whom I believe is suspicious. If I had indeed been trying to set you up in a mislynch because of your suspicions regarding Shady, shouldn't I have taken a step back from my own case against Shady so that I could accuse you? So it seems that your explanation for not giving any further comments on players is that you have a different playstyle. One that includes discussion and potential scumslips. Fine, but then show it to me! Oh no wait ... seems like in your entire post you skipped the discussion about Zorkmid and his scumslip! Instead you build up a huge case against me based on what? Literally nothing. Can the Jingle, who was hyped when joining the game as the savior, really be this bad? No, I don't think so. I believe you saw your scum buddy Zork in trouble and went out to discredit my case and me. So "turning things back on you" would be scummy. Cute. Because somehow YOU turned things back on to me. And to be clear, right now I am not pushing you for playing in a different way than me! I am pushing your case for playing the most obvious scum play I have ever seen. JH's defense of his posts pretty much only extends to accusing the town of WIFOM and confirmation bias. While you could argue that after the Zork fakeclaim, there's nothing JH could have done that wouldn't have looked guilty, this point from me still remains: First off, there's no need to talk about what scum might or might not be doing in the main thread--that gives scum chances to improve their behavior. Second, he's basically saying that scum are probably split between Mord and Zork, except him and Zork both piled on Mordanis. Unless JingleHell somehow knew that Zork would flip red, why would he make this post? This is almost a defense post from JingleHell, in defense of a red flip (Zorkmid) that hasn't happened yet. Why would JingleHell argue that scum would be throwing someone under the bus, and keep arguing that scum votes are probably split, when Zork and Darth had already piled onto the Mord train? How would he have known to distance himself the other Mord voters before they ended up flipping red? It makes no sense unless you read it as a defense-in-advance of a scum flip that hasn't happened yet. And JingleHell has not answered this point in the past 72 hours in spite of making tons of posts accusing the entire town of WIFOM and "confirmation bias". Onto Alan/aRyuu Between these two, I'm fairly certain Alan is not green. However, this doesn't mean Alan is scum--rather, I think he's the medic. My read on him the whole game has been someone who is more interested in finding out confirmed townies than finding out confirmed scum, while quasi-lurking and making very circumspect posts. This sort of behavior only makes sense if he's the medic, or the scum roleblocker. Basically, if Alan doesn't roleclaim medic, I'd suggest lynching him after lynching JingleHell. aRyuujin also fits the medic profile, quasi-lurking and trying to stay under the radar, but overall maintaining a very pro-town posting streak. But his recent posting on Darth is a bit more... reckless than I'd expect from a scum trying to dot all their i's and cross all their t's, so to speak. And finally, discount the whole scum RB discussion on JingleHell--that was just a ploy from me to get the scum RB to not RB anyone tonight, in the off chance that JingleHell was innocent and scum RB would think to try and make him look guilty when no one came forward with an RB claim. If I'm dead, good luck town, and it was nice playing with all of you. Please follow Ange777, she's the closest thing to confirmed town this town has. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
End of Night 4 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8eyqO.jpg) Figure 7. I'm like 90% sure that's not actually Batman. It was a dark and stormy night, and aRyuujin was doing everything he could to make it back to his apartment in one piece. It hadn't been easy, all of the rain made it very difficult to see anything in front of him. Fortunately, the apartment wasn't too much further up the street. Another 500 feet, and he would be safe inside at home. Very wet, but otherwise intact. Thunder cracked somewhere above his head, and cast a shadow from the alleyway he was passing. The shadow was of the dark and ominous type, and aRyuujin knew that it would be best for him to ignore it. But, that annoying voice in the back of your head that tells you what to do told him that this was not the time for that. He slowed down, and walked back to the alley in the pouring rain. He saw a dark figure standing over... something, he couldn't quite make it out in the darkness. Thunder cracked again, and the lightning showed him the entire scene. The owner of the earlier shadow was standing over a body, with his back turned to aRyuujin. "Hey! What are you doing! Who are you!" aRyuujin shouted at the man standing in the alleyway. The stranger responded in a deep, gruff voice "Uh... I'm the Batman!" He then took out something that looked vaguely gun shaped out of his coat, shot it up into the air, and was pulled into the stairs on the fire escape of the alley. aRyuujin ran over to the body still lying in the alleyway. Obvious.660 the Vanilla Townie was found dead in the alley! Day 5 has begun! You have 48 hours to vote for the next lynch. As a reminder, there are no clues this game. All names used in this post are strictly for flavor. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 08 2012 06:02 Ange777 wrote: Shady, please reconsider to lynch Alan first. He is my only remaining scum read (with Jingle only being slighty scummy but should be town)! I have town reads on every other player in this game except for Alan. If he doesn't roleclaim medic I'll consider lynching him over Jingle. | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 08 2012 06:05 Ange777 wrote: Have you already finished my case on Alan, Shady? Yep. My read stands, I think if he doesn't roleclaim soon he will be in quite a bit of hot water. | ||
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Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On August 08 2012 06:08 Ange777 wrote: My guess is scum is afraid to have his nightkill saved if he tries to go for one of the more expected kills. That's great. We're forcing scum into playing sub-optimally. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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