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Radfield's Fall once again
I am not implying Radfield is Saddam Hussein, it's first image I've found.
It's amazing how fast you can slip when trying to play an active scum game. I guess it must be hard hiding your activity when last games weren't exactly exciting nowadays. Well, let's start to get those slips out, shall we?
+ Show Spoiler [First] +On May 30 2012 20:06 Radfield wrote:
K, I'm skipping over the last page or so because I don't have much time, and want to get this said. My apologies if this has already been said.
Roleblocker is the pick we need to send in for mafia. The reason for this is the role we absolutely do not want a combination of framer/gf + cop/tracker. That gives us the least possible advantage in this game. By us publicly sending in the roleblocker, it basically forces mafia to give us 2 of vigilante/medic/innocent child. If they decide to give us either cop or tracker that is even better, as we will KNOW that they only have a roleblocker and cannot throw off our investigations.
Roleblocker vs 2 of vigilante/medic/innocent child is a fantastic place to be. If they happen to give us tracker or cop that is even better. It is far far better than any other scenario.
Role and Alignment being hidden we want to save until lylo, as at that point it doesn't hurt us. Likewise when only 1 mafia is left.
Voting being Secret we want to save until we have an obvious lynch.
Lynch locks once majority hits does not hurt us at all, and is our freebee.
Mayoral election is our second freebee.
Day cycle shortened to 24 hours we'll use in the lategame, as discussion is slow then anyways.
I'm out of time, more later.
What? This is EXACTLY combination we WANT. Framer has two shots. He has small chance to succeed. Lawyer my guy or frame this guy? Our cops/trackers if present will have Players-1/Players chance of getting a true check. This role, adding that it's only two-shot one is so bad that it hurts my eyes. Godfather is weak too and our trackers/dts have the same chances of getting a true check every night, the only thing making him better is that he works forever. Roleblocker on the other hand, is THE BEST role out there. Affects EVERY role (besides Child, but it would be foolish to pick it anyway, Doctor+Child without a roleblocker is such an awesome gg haha). What's better: giving a dt a false check when You get EXTREMELY LUCKY or denying dt a check for one night, while it is a lot easier to blue hunt THAN to blue target hunt (do people even try to do this?). Roleblocker will be good in ANY setup, while framer/gf suck without information roles. But Kurumi, what if we pick them and they know it? We get two cops/trackers? Good luck framing their check and then trying to sway a lynch with "follow the cop" crap. Logic and analysis>blue role shenanigans.
Also keep in mind that "I don't have much time" crappy excuse. Let me collect them.
+ Show Spoiler [Second] +On May 30 2012 21:41 Radfield wrote:
Roleblocker is by far the most useless role for mafia in this setup. I will gladly explain this in further detail once the roles are picked, but it should be obvious to anyone looking at the setup and considering mafia options. I don't want to say any more than that right now, but there is really no contest.
Consider this though, if we KNOW we have sent in roleblocker(ie everyone sends that in) then we KNOW we can trust every single check via tracker or cop. That is incredibly important. Given that, mafia will have to give us some combination of the other three roles, which is an absolutely fantastic setup for town. (Innocent child cannot be roleblocked, medic never needs to claim, vig never needs to claim until second shot when he cant be roleblocked anymore).
Please send in roleblocker.
DING DING DING
I promise to explain something REALLY FREAKING IMPORTANT but.. later... after it goes through...
Yup. Can't get more scummier than that, Mr. Radfield.
Also this "Please send in roleblocker" because what, you can't? OH RIGHT, I FORGOT.
Wrong, we NEVER can "trust every single check"
unless of course, we are Mafia and know we've picked a dt and noone from our team is faking one...
RIGHT, MR. RADFIELD?
Just because someone said "X is mafia, I checked him last night" does not mean he is telling the truth, wake the heck up people. The most important thing in this scenario is:
* Look who do you trust more. "Mr. DT" or "poopfeast420"? DT is scummy? Well, to hell with him, it's not like we shouldn't lynch DTs first in this setup WHERE THEY CAN'T PROVIDE SECOND FREAKING CHECK, RIGHT?
* Try to fit this scenario into current game. Did someone was getting close to getting lynched? Is he believed to be scum? DING DING DING, something's wrong!
Of course Innocent Child can't be roleblocked, but who sane would pick even one of those? A madman, that's right. Vigilantes or One-Shot cops are best picks for mafia. Vigilantes because they tend to suck and cops because they tend to suck. And they suck.
See? Medic is a roulette everytime pretty much, while Tracker is absolute THE BEST role out there. Can collect multiple checks etc.
+ Show Spoiler [Third] +On May 30 2012 21:54 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 21:51 Zephirdd wrote:IMO secret ballot shouldn't be used. Too much confusion if I understood it right. Also, scratch the last encrypted code. + Show Spoiler [what I picked] +?b64xF1yM2Qy++9qlohfAHP+g6g4nA5rLPIXvQn02yFKhlP1oswI+B5HmNw3lsK+
KGjOakHLoluNDfPdwJr/5SCNaPlvWY0KLbBASU3hwAarQWXqXoOpMxJ4iOha1wdA
ma7znGXACp71St85QQ94UsZElCjJzs6tgTzXhAn15x0jtcruTYHQMGjgr5PTTkhy
w5uy?64b I don't see anyone doing that yet, and I'm sad  please post, encrypted, the role you picked for mafia(try to encrypt a phrase like "I picked *** because YYY" so it's hard to reverse-crack it). After this phase we de-crack our codes and verify the role we made mafia pick. I see no need to encrypt our roles, I honestly don't understand the need for it at all. No townie is going to lie tomorrow about what role he sent in today, and mafia is going to lie regardless of whether they encrypt or not. So why are we encrypting??
Shooting down an excellent plan by a guy who has seen a game like this before. Of course. I guess I am going to go with a guy who does not seem scummy and actually speaks his mind, huh Mr.Radfield?
+ Show Spoiler [Fourth] +On May 30 2012 22:01 Radfield wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 21:56 Zephirdd wrote:On May 30 2012 21:54 Radfield wrote:On May 30 2012 21:51 Zephirdd wrote:IMO secret ballot shouldn't be used. Too much confusion if I understood it right. Also, scratch the last encrypted code. + Show Spoiler [what I picked] +?b64xF1yM2Qy++9qlohfAHP+g6g4nA5rLPIXvQn02yFKhlP1oswI+B5HmNw3lsK+
KGjOakHLoluNDfPdwJr/5SCNaPlvWY0KLbBASU3hwAarQWXqXoOpMxJ4iOha1wdA
ma7znGXACp71St85QQ94UsZElCjJzs6tgTzXhAn15x0jtcruTYHQMGjgr5PTTkhy
w5uy?64b I don't see anyone doing that yet, and I'm sad please post, encrypted, the role you picked for mafia(try to encrypt a phrase like "I picked *** because YYY" so it's hard to reverse-crack it). After this phase we de-crack our codes and verify the role we made mafia pick. I see no need to encrypt our roles, I honestly don't understand the need for it at all. No townie is going to lie tomorrow about what role he sent in today, and mafia is going to lie regardless of whether they encrypt or not. So why are we encrypting?? So mafia can't be 100% sure of and can't 100% send roles to counterpick ours. For instance, they may end up picking Tracker when we pick Roleblocker, which is great for us. That's what I got from it, at least. Ahh whatever. when we ask everyone tomorrow what they sent in(without encrypting today), all townies are going to tell the truth, and all mafia are going to lie. If we encrypt are roles today, all townies are going to tell the truth, and all mafia are going to lie. Encrypting does nothing. Regardless, It doesn't matter if mafia know they are getting roleblocker, as they still have to give us the roles we want. There is no advantage to mafia knowing they are getting roleblocker.
Reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllyyyyyyyyyy? Check first spoiler to see a contradiction.
Radfield is scum. Roleblocker is the best pick for mafia. He tries to assure town that checks are to be trusted everytime without framer/gf, which is ton of bullcrap. Always take check with a grain of salt.
Kurumi out. Framer/GF suck.
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EWODP:
"Check first spoiler to see a contradiction in red"
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On May 30 2012 20:01 prplhz wrote:
Will anybody get told if they are roleblocked?
Yes.
On May 30 2012 20:01 prplhz wrote:
Can scum pick two of the same role to give to town or do they have to pick two different roles?
They must be different.
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On May 30 2012 23:44 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 23:18 risk.nuke wrote:
Just a thought, if scum votes anything but 1-1-1 in a secret vote it opens up the posssibility for them to get busted for lying. I don't understand this. How does that open up the possibility for them to get busted for lying?
The idea is that something like what sbrubbles posted happens. Which is the only advantage of encryption in the first place - Radfield is right in that encryption is meaningless in the sense of that townies will tell the truth and mafia will lie. But it's theoretically easier for mafia to lie when they can see how the townies are voting, and therefore blend themselves into the majority more easily. If they have to all pick beforehand without full knowledge of what town is doing or what town is going to say they pick, they run the risk of some weird vote totals happening.
The problem with what I just posted is that it's only theoretical at this point - I think Radfield and toad are correct about roleblocker being weakest for them, which means practically speaking I don't think the vote will be close at all.
________________________
On the poisons:
1) From skimming the thread I see the idea of "it's so hard to reach majority day one" pop up (I think from toad). Is anyone else genuinely scared of this? I'm not at all. If everyone is then we can go for mayoral election, but I think that is a waste.
2) Majority day one is 6 votes (12/2 rounded up). First person to 6 votes gets lynched. If we have to get 6 votes anyway, then why not 7? I think majority + 1 is relatively safe here.
I'm pretty sure HiroPro is right in that we only have to use five poisons (12 10 8 6 4 assuming there's only one scum left by the end and no vig shots or medic blocks or no lynches). So let's not get carried away thinking we have to use majority +1 AND secret mafia vote when we can just use majority +1 and never bother with the secret mafia vote.
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Radfield, I don't see any benefits of discussing why roleblocker is the weakest role after we choose it - your whole point of validating the cop checks etc. takes into account that even if mafia knew that they would receive roleblocker, we would still get good PRs. So mafia don't benefit from the discussion and town does - so why don't you want to talk about it?
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And Kurumi, your case is based on two points
1) Roleblocker is objectively the best role for mafia
2) Radfield knows this and is pushing it regardless (i.e. with mafia agenda).
Can you elaborate on these two points?
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I see what Toad and Radfield are saying about roleblocker. While I don't really feel that medic/vig against roleblocker is really much of an advantage for us, I can see the chaos that gf/framer can cause (There's no way we're getting innocent child). But I still think doing the encryption is a good idea. It can't hurt.
I'm pretty sure HiroPro is right in that we only have to use five poisons (12 10 8 6 4 assuming there's only one scum left by the end and no vig shots or medic blocks or no lynches). So let's not get carried away thinking we have to use majority +1 AND secret mafia vote when we can just use majority +1 and never bother with the secret mafia vote.
I'd prefer to be on the safe side and allocate six poisons. I don't want us to get in trouble just because we get a medic save. "Secret mafia vote" just isn't that dangerous; we can use that and "majority+1" day1/day2 (when those poisons are the weakest).
http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/javascrypt.html
[b]Encrypted Text: ZZZZZ IKQND HLAHA GFAXM GRHFX WHJBP HVVJW QKGDM FLUER ECNNB DMNAN
WUNJC IHLRU XHVXV AEKGV IHMJV XJAXL SCIPV EPLGD QQDLM PHKLT DXUIA
WUGKM VQIAP WMXFD DQCOJ BUMZZ YYYYY
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dang Kurumi.
I am also worried about the fact that Radfield is so worried about the idea of everyone registering their role picks BEFORE the roles are picked. It makes a gigantic difference.
Guys, if you are town, register your vote BEFORE voting using the encryption. Please.
Also, please consider the first encryption of mine. Yes I did change my mind again.
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As long as you stick to one encryption (before the selection phase is over of course), shouldn't be a problem. Additionally, I think posting your encryption should happen as late as possible (send in your vote whenever) - otherwise scum might glean what you have picked according to the current thought in thread.
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Dearest Kurumi, I am Mr. Lovett. lets make some Radpie.
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My vote
+ Show Spoiler +ZZZZZ GVRSG KTULX EDLNH OTJLU XGKUU XEIOK PKIWI IRUCV RDGQQ QBGFF
DQRJI ASFKU XLUBV AXNFG VETUB WWJRT JEHTD HOBHO PVHKB UZZZZ YYYYY
I'll comment later or after the day post, if I comment now my vote will be obvious.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 30 2012 23:16 prplhz wrote:
@Radfield What do you mean "scum are going to lie about their votes anyway"?
Mafia do not actually send in any votes for what mafia gets, so they will have to lie about what they sent in.
On May 30 2012 23:33 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 21:41 Radfield wrote:
Roleblocker is by far the most useless role for mafia in this setup. I will gladly explain this in further detail once the roles are picked, but it should be obvious to anyone looking at the setup and considering mafia options. I don't want to say any more than that right now, but there is really no contest.
Consider this though, if we KNOW we have sent in roleblocker(ie everyone sends that in) then we KNOW we can trust every single check via tracker or cop. That is incredibly important. Given that, mafia will have to give us some combination of the other three roles, which is an absolutely fantastic setup for town. (Innocent child cannot be roleblocked, medic never needs to claim, vig never needs to claim until second shot when he cant be roleblocked anymore).
Please send in roleblocker. If you fail to see how scummy this is, may Whoever help you
That is not remotely scummy. I'm telling you there are certain reasons I can think of that I don't want mafia to know until they have picked our roles. Once they have picked our roles then I will gladly explain in further detail. Please don't be silly this game Kurumi, you have the potential to be an asset to town or mafia when you are a townie. Make it an asset to town.
My statement becomes scummy when 1 of 2 things happen:
a) I have no explanation for my statement tomorrow
or
b) I have an unsatisfactory explanation for that statement tomorrow.
In either case, there is nothing even possibly scummy about that sentence yet.
On May 31 2012 01:38 slOosh wrote:
Radfield, I don't see any benefits of discussing why roleblocker is the weakest role after we choose it - your whole point of validating the cop checks etc. takes into account that even if mafia knew that they would receive roleblocker, we would still get good PRs. So mafia don't benefit from the discussion and town does - so why don't you want to talk about it?
Again, it has to do with what the mafia are picking for us, which I obviously don't want to talk about until tomorrow.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Also, I think we should all be voting for mafia to get a +1 vote for tomorrow. That poison gets harsher the longer the game goes, and really doesn't hurt us at all on day 1. Thoughts?
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Kurumi, I'm happy to respond to your points, but don't have time at the moment. We can talk tonight.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Actually, I probably won't. I have limited time this game, and am going to focus it on scumhunting. If I'm still alive Day 2 I will start responding to criticisms.
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On May 31 2012 04:12 Radfield wrote:
Actually, I probably won't. I have limited time this game, and am going to focus it on scumhunting. If I'm still alive Day 2 I will start responding to criticisms.
Remember that thing that You don't sign up for games when You don't have time?
Excuses, excuses.
Scum.
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I think the instant majority poison does us no damage at all. We're going to have a hard time getting a majority anyways. At least that'y the way the most recent games played out.
It's not like mafia will hop in there "olol let's hammer" and get 3 votes on the same guy lynching a townie.
It would need coordination because we'd want to know who people are willing to vote for before actually voting to ensure we don't end the cycle early.
If we can manage that coordination that poison looks the weakest d1 to me.
But it's kinda risky if people lack the patience / coordination to talk things through before voting.
That being said I'm not going to vote the majority +1 poison because as mentioned I think we're already going to have a hard time getting a majority anyways.
The +1 vote for mafia poison seems okay and there's really not a lot that could go wrong like that and it might be dangerous later in the game.
So yeah I'm willing to vote those two and as I'm apparently the only one that thinks the instant majority thing is not dangerous on d1 it's going to be the +1 vote for mafia poison.
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On May 31 2012 04:19 Toadesstern wrote:
I think the instant majority poison does us no damage at all. We're going to have a hard time getting a majority anyways. At least that'y the way the most recent games played out.
It's not like mafia will hop in there "olol let's hammer" and get 3 votes on the same guy lynching a townie.
It would need coordination because we'd want to know who people are willing to vote for before actually voting to ensure we don't end the cycle early.
If we can manage that coordination that poison looks the weakest d1 to me.
But it's kinda risky if people lack the patience / coordination to talk things through before voting.
That being said I'm not going to vote the majority +1 poison because as mentioned I think we're already going to have a hard time getting a majority anyways.
The +1 vote for mafia poison seems okay and there's really not a lot that could go wrong like that and it might be dangerous later in the game.
So yeah I'm willing to vote those two and as I'm apparently the only one that thinks the instant majority thing is not dangerous on d1 it's going to be the +1 vote for mafia poison.
If we have a hard time getting a majority then how is giving mafia +1 vote poison a good idea?
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I'm voting the majority +1 for D1, because the reasonings behind it are better than any other put forth thus far.
##Vote: 6 (Majority + 1 is required for a successful lynch)
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MTDQq.jpg)
