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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On May 31 2012 04:56 slOosh wrote: If we have a hard time getting a majority then how is giving mafia +1 vote poison a good idea? because that has nothing to do with towns ability to get enough people on the same guy. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On May 31 2012 04:19 Toadesstern wrote: I think the instant majority poison does us no damage at all. We're going to have a hard time getting a majority anyways. At least that'y the way the most recent games played out. It's not like mafia will hop in there "olol let's hammer" and get 3 votes on the same guy lynching a townie. It would need coordination because we'd want to know who people are willing to vote for before actually voting to ensure we don't end the cycle early. If we can manage that coordination that poison looks the weakest d1 to me. But it's kinda risky if people lack the patience / coordination to talk things through before voting. That being said I'm not going to vote the majority +1 poison because as mentioned I think we're already going to have a hard time getting a majority anyways. The +1 vote for mafia poison seems okay and there's really not a lot that could go wrong like that and it might be dangerous later in the game. So yeah I'm willing to vote those two and as I'm apparently the only one that thinks the instant majority thing is not dangerous on d1 it's going to be the +1 vote for mafia poison. I don't follow this - the difference between +1 majority and +1 mafia vote is either us having to get 6 votes together or us having to get 7 votes together. If you're really scared about getting a majority together day one then why aren't you pushing for mayoral election? | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On May 31 2012 05:02 talismania wrote: I don't follow this - the difference between +1 majority and +1 mafia vote is either us having to get 6 votes together or us having to get 7 votes together. If you're really scared about getting a majority together day one then why aren't you pushing for mayoral election? that's really a nice poison later on imo. Townreads are easier to make but they tend to be wrong early on from time to time. It could happen that we end up voting a mafia as mayor or not so mart man into office. I don't like both options d1 That could be a nice poison later in the game that has about no drawbacks. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
This is a pick your poison game, which means people are most inclined to use their own views about the game setup to choose roles for the other side. Radfield is apparently of the opinion that the roleblocker is not scary because it ensures we get checks off (if there's an investigative role) or he's lying and he's scum. There are reasons I think roleblocker is the strongest role for mafia. For one, it stops claims dead in their tracks. If you have a tracker claim, as scum you don't have to kill the claimer if you have a roleblocker. Scum will never choose vigi or innocent child for us. That's pretty much out of the question. They'll choose between the other 3 roles, and at that point it's completely up to personal preference. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On May 31 2012 05:33 HiroPro wrote: Toad: I agree with you on the mayoral vote being a good mid-game poison and "secret hidden vote" being a good d1 choice. But I don't really get why you feel that "+1 majority vote" is bad for d2. I know that wheel of fortune had a problem with no-lynches, but looking at some other recent normal minis "C9++ and Mr Wiggles II", neither of them had any no-lynches. And day 2 is a time when you have stuff to analyze and look at; consolidation shouldn't be a problem. Not that I have read those games but as far as I had it the last couple of games: It's either a NL or some mediorce compromise instead of a good lynch. Compromise that start off a "well let's see who is willing to vote whom to get a lynch happening"-basis generally lead to a mislynch. That's how I've seen my most recent games. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
You already got an answer prplhz. What are your current thoughts for today? | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
Mafia secret vote gives mafia the power to decide the vote (i.e. electing mafia mayor) in any of the following vote totals: 6-6 6-5-1 5-5-2 5-anything that adds up to 7. In this case mafia decides whether to lynch the player with 5 or let a no lynch happen. Which means we might as well go for 7 votes, which means we might as well use majority + 1 and never let mafia ever have a secret vote in the game. Hidden ballot is less dangerous endgame than secret vote, even. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
@wherebugsgo What claims will roleblocker stop? You say that scum can just role block a tracker if he claims and they will not have to kill him, but they don't have to kill him with godfather either. The good thing is that we can trust investigative roles. You say that scum will never choose vigilante or innocent child, but will they ever choose 1-shot cop or tracker if we give them a role blocker? If not, then we will actually get at least one of those roles you say they'll never give us which is good. If they do, then we can trust their results, 1-shot cop would pretty much claim day2 and scum will not be able to kill him 'cause then they'd confirm his check. If we give them a role blocker then tracker shouldn't even claim unless he's got something juicy. What role do you think we should give scum? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On May 31 2012 05:40 slOosh wrote: You already got an answer prplhz. What are your current thoughts for today? That's a pretty generic question. I just think it's a little crazy that scum don't even get to vote, then it's really just going to be up to town and we're going to pick whatever. I also have no idea why Radfield is so much against encrypting our votes. It will do absolutely no harm and it might help us out. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
On May 31 2012 05:41 talismania wrote: I'm voting majority+1 for the reasons I've already stated - to reiterate: Mafia secret vote gives mafia the power to decide the vote (i.e. electing mafia mayor) in any of the following vote totals: 6-6 6-5-1 5-5-2 5-anything that adds up to 7. In this case mafia decides whether to lynch the player with 5 or let a no lynch happen. Which means we might as well go for 7 votes, which means we might as well use majority + 1 and never let mafia ever have a secret vote in the game. Hidden ballot is less dangerous endgame than secret vote, even. you do realize that secret vote and mayor can't happen at the same time, right? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On May 31 2012 05:56 prplhz wrote: Bluelightz says that scum votes for town's role and town votes for scum's role, but not that scum don't vote for town's role. The reason why I was confused about this in the first place is because the OP actually says "town votes for scum role" and I don't know if "town" actually includes scum. I'm still a little confused but everybody seems to think that scum don't vote so I guess that they don't. the vice versa part makes it quite clear it's "only town votes for mafia roles" imo. | ||
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talismania
United States2364 Posts
On May 31 2012 05:55 Zephirdd wrote: you do realize that secret vote and mayor can't happen at the same time, right? I'm saying that if there is secret vote and any of those voting scenarios happen, it's as if we've effectively elected mafia mayor for the day. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
I'll be gone for the next 3 hours but I'll be back for the deadline. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On May 31 2012 05:51 prplhz wrote: I'm going to vote for the secret hidden vote. I think that will be more useful in close races and I don't think that day1 will be two bandwagons, but a single person who will be up for lynch and then we'll see if we can get enough votes for him. @wherebugsgo What claims will roleblocker stop? You say that scum can just role block a tracker if he claims and they will not have to kill him, but they don't have to kill him with godfather either. The good thing is that we can trust investigative roles. You say that scum will never choose vigilante or innocent child, but will they ever choose 1-shot cop or tracker if we give them a role blocker? If not, then we will actually get at least one of those roles you say they'll never give us which is good. If they do, then we can trust their results, 1-shot cop would pretty much claim day2 and scum will not be able to kill him 'cause then they'd confirm his check. If we give them a role blocker then tracker shouldn't even claim unless he's got something juicy. What role do you think we should give scum? truly I don't think it matters. Godfather might be the strongest role for scum in the setup based on tracker + 1 shot cop stuff. I'd rather give scum framer or roleblocker. Framer is at the very least limited use and roleblocker is a bit more unreliable and forces scum to do more work. What's stopping them from picking both one shot cop and tracker? I think that's what scum will choose, or something like medic+tracker or medic+one shot cop. I really doubt they'll ever choose innocent child or vigilante. I think they'd only choose vigilante if they're confident in being able to get the vigi to shoot at townies, but I don't think that's likely. | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
On May 31 2012 04:14 Kurumi wrote: Remember that thing that You don't sign up for games when You don't have time? Excuses, excuses. Scum. I have time, but it is limited. I want to spend it filtering. How bout if I fail to do anything constructive then you can come at me for being scummy. I'll tell you what, you form nice coherent arguments you want me to respond to, and I will respond. On May 31 2012 05:11 wherebugsgo wrote: There are reasons I think roleblocker is the strongest role for mafia. For one, it stops claims dead in their tracks. If you have a tracker claim, as scum you don't have to kill the claimer if you have a roleblocker. Scum will never choose vigi or innocent child for us. That's pretty much out of the question. They'll choose between the other 3 roles, and at that point it's completely up to personal preference. re: bold You're missing something extremely important bugs, and I'll be glad to enlighten you once the picks are in(again, related to mafia choosing town roles). re:Italics Are you even reading what you've written? Lets say you are right, and scum will not choose vig or IC. That means we get 2 of medic, tracker, cop..... vs a roleblocker. That is fantastically unbalanced in favor of town. Because we know we're facing a roleblocker, our detectives KNOW that every check is true. The roleblocker is essentially useless except for the tracker, and he's going to claim only once he finds scum. Also consider, a tracker vs roleblocker has a good chance of finding the roleblocker because whomever the roleblocker visits will be notified(unlike a frame). So our tracker has a x2 chance of finding scum compared to the GF. On May 31 2012 05:54 prplhz wrote: That's a pretty generic question. I just think it's a little crazy that scum don't even get to vote, then it's really just going to be up to town and we're going to pick whatever. I also have no idea why Radfield is so much against encrypting our votes. It will do absolutely no harm and it might help us out. I'm only against it because I don't understand how it can help. Explain to me how it helps because right now I don't get it. I'm voting for the +1 secret vote for mafia. I feel like at worst they're going to use it to mislynch a townie who didn't quite get hammered, which isn't really that bad for town since it allows all the townies voting for the mislynch to refocus. In fact you could argue that it's smarter for scum to leave a townie alive who is at L-1, since we'll all think he is scum and lynch(or shoot) him Day 2. In short, +1 vote for mafia is pretty useless right now. | ||
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